The Energon Pub

My money is on Tidalwave for the Commander Class, it makes the most sense given recent releases PLUS the somewhat overdue Armada Energon nostelgia/homages

ZeroWolf wrote:They might give Prime his trex form from Rescue Bots remember though that the core class may replace Micromasters then battle masters. I'm more curious as to the fossilizers

I doubtbthat about Prime since we sew him looking likebhis G1 self on the poster.
And I too am really curious about those fossilizers.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:They might give Prime his trex form from Rescue Bots remember though that the core class may replace Micromasters then battle masters. I'm more curious as to the fossilizers

I doubtbthat about Prime since we sew him looking likebhis G1 self on the poster.
And I too am really curious about those fossilizers.

Oh I know, that was a joke, nodding to the fact that it would have meant that prime and bw megs were the same beast mode

Nemesis Primal wrote:Deathsaurus, IDW Thunderwing, Animated Lugnut, and Movie Blackout all come to mind as big Cons, but no one from Sunbow G1, that's for sure.

Overlord is a big Decepticon
You also didn't consider Trypticon and Scorponok although they is also a city.


Here's what i would want to see from Kingdom

Rattrap (Deluxe)

Transmetal figures without chrome issues. Rattrap comes to mind

Beast Machines Optimus Prime (New iteration since the Energy Disk Optimus was fragile, Blast Punch was terrible and Air Attack has fragile gold parts.) I think he deserves one good figure.

And maybe a Primal Prime figure that can be purchased instead of being exclusive https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primal_Prime

Rogue-Primal wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:Deathsaurus, IDW Thunderwing, Animated Lugnut, and Movie Blackout all come to mind as big Cons, but no one from Sunbow G1, that's for sure.

You forgot Trypticon and Scorponok although they is also a city.

They weren't forgotten, they were dismissed as Commander-class candidates on grounds of being more suited to - and ALREADY DONE AS - Titan-class.

Sixshot is big, but he's only Leader-class big (and also well-covered by Titans Return). I think Thunderwing would be a good candidate for Leader-class - it fits his size in the Marvel Comics from what I can tell (he's seen standing over a battered Powermaster Optimus Prime) and would also match Black Shadow's size in Victory from what I can judge from the fight between Greatshot and the Crossformers.

I still back Overlord for a Decepticon Commander-class figure. He's got the size for it, he's interesting design-wise, and his G1 base mode is very impressive. He'd make the Titans Return version look and feel like a cheap undersize knockoff.

EDIT since you edited while I was typing this:
It'll be a while before we see Beast Machines stuff, I'm pretty sure. BM isn't as popular as BW, and they'll have to see how well the BW stuff sells.

That being said, dear gods the BM toyline could use a do-over if only for scale. Beast Wars at least the scale issues are sorted with the Transmetal-onward toys, but Beast Machines...

The most important part to a redux for the BM line, possibly within this one, is to cherry pick the figures that worked (99% of the Vehicons and a handful of Maximals). Some of the Vehicons would look amazing re-scaled. EG This guy...



He could even work in Commander Class, to be honest.

I'm not criticizing anyone here, because everyone is entitled to want different things, but I want to offer an alternative view to a popular priority: I absolutely do not care about "accuracy" in scale. I think it's dumb. It might be because I was a G1 collector and accepted that characters like Galvatron and Bumblebee weren't remotely representative but still fun toys, or maybe it's because I enjoyed the "Aligned" RiD legion class, or maybe it's just because I accepted a tape deck could grow to a couple dozen feet. Scale never made sense in the toylines or media, so I don't understand why it's important for the shelf.

That's not to say I don't like different scales--I love them. The Titans need to be big and tower over everyone else, and I want my minibots to be mini, which is one of the reasons that I've never been interested in Generations Warpath. But I can't care about the difference between a 7" or 9" leader, or desire a Commander class upgrade to a shelfwarmer from three years ago.

Class is for production and marketing: how much does it cost to make thing, how much can it sell for, how much retailer shelf space does it take up. As a fan, I want to know that the quality, overall size, and play features align to the cost. I can't be bothered to obsess about height.

Again, I don't want this to read as personally critical to anyone--"you do you" is a good rule to live by. I just feel obligated to be a dissenting voice.

There is always this classic example wherein scale doesn't matter at all. A showcase on how the concept largely exists to fleece fans/collectors...



Supreme Class Cheetor

I loved Supreme Cheetor, he just didn't have the build quality to hold up over the years. But he was a really fun toy at the time!

AcademyofDrX wrote:I loved Supreme Cheetor, he just didn't have the build quality to hold up over the years. But he was a really fun toy at the time!

But where was the context or relevance to him, occupying his scale? Aside from a later repurposed Primal, he alone stood in Supreme Class. Which ultimately had nothing to do with the show, toyline or anything else. He was massive, just to be massive. Therefore essentially redundant in comparison to the rest of the line.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:I loved Supreme Cheetor, he just didn't have the build quality to hold up over the years. But he was a really fun toy at the time!

But where was the context or relevance to him, occupying his scale? Aside from a later repurposed Primal, he alone stood in Supreme Class. Which ultimately had nothing to do with the show, toyline or anything else. He was massive, just to be massive. Therefore essentially redundant in comparison to the rest of the line.

That's the thing with my perspective: for me, he didn't have to scale to the rest of the line. He's a toy, he's designed to be fun to play with. And while he was much larger than Ultra Jetstorm, he was big enough to go alongside him. (JS of course is another BM toy that hasn't held up over the years.)

I have the MP-1 Optimus and MP-5 Megatron, and no other MP figures. They don't need to sit alongside an entire toyline to have value; they stand alone. Well, together. Actually, one stands and one falls, but you get the idea.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:There is always this classic example wherein scale doesn't matter at all. A showcase on how the concept largely exists to fleece fans/collectors...



Supreme Class Cheetor

Complete nonsense post. I can't make out any coherent argument from that statement.

I will try, though.

Are you saying scale is an attempt to "fleece customers" (to which I say hogwash)?

Are you saying Supreme Cheetor exists to "fleece customers" (to which I say hogwash)?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:I loved Supreme Cheetor, he just didn't have the build quality to hold up over the years. But he was a really fun toy at the time!

But where was the context or relevance to him, occupying his scale? Aside from a later repurposed Primal, he alone stood in Supreme Class. Which ultimately had nothing to do with the show, toyline or anything else. He was massive, just to be massive. Therefore essentially redundant in comparison to the rest of the line.

Sometimes, kids just like big toys for how big they are, even if they comprise a one-bot toyline of their own.

Supreme Cheetor wasn't a toy to be played with against the other normal-sized BM toys (unless a kid imagined him growing that big to be a sort Maximal Godzilla for the Vehicons to face), he was a toy to be played with against siblings and other real people that its owner wanted to pester and torment with its missiles, claws, and sound effects.

Or, one could just have him fight Serpentera.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:I loved Supreme Cheetor, he just didn't have the build quality to hold up over the years. But he was a really fun toy at the time!

But where was the context or relevance to him, occupying his scale? Aside from a later repurposed Primal, he alone stood in Supreme Class. Which ultimately had nothing to do with the show, toyline or anything else. He was massive, just to be massive. Therefore essentially redundant in comparison to the rest of the line.

That's the thing with my perspective: for me, he didn't have to scale to the rest of the line. He's a toy, he's designed to be fun to play with. And while he was much larger than Ultra Jetstorm, he was big enough to go alongside him. (JS of course is another BM toy that hasn't held up over the years.)

I have the MP-1 Optimus and MP-5 Megatron, and no other MP figures. They don't need to sit alongside an entire toyline to have value; they stand alone. Well, together. Actually, one stands and one falls, but you get the idea.

That's what I mean. He is the poster child for 'Scale doesn't matter'. They could have launched the Supreme Class with Optimal Megatron. To specifically tie in to the show and someone of appropriate scale. But they picked Cheetor. Not even a particularly show accurate one either. Because that wasn't the point. As you say:

he's designed to be fun to play with

Much like Ultra Jetstorm.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:They could have launched the Supreme Class with Optimal Megatron. To specifically tie in to the show and someone of appropriate scale. But they picked Cheetor.

Supreme Cheetor was on the shelves long before the series finale aired on TV. Had Optimal Megatron been a thing, its release that far ahead would have spoiled that surprise twist at the end of the series.

Plus, had Optimal Megatron been in the toyline, he would have taken Primal Prime's place, not Supreme Cheetor's, so your suggestion is redundant since the Optimal Optimus mold was a Super not a Supreme.

Sabrblade wrote:Supreme Cheetor was on the shelves long before the series finale aired on TV. Had Optimal Megatron been a thing, its release that far ahead would have spoiled that surprise twist at the end of the series.

Yet I doubt both (show and toyline) existed in a vacuum. Plus, There is precedent for that kind of spoiler. Rodimus Prime and the other Movie figures being the earliest. Although Galvatron was obscure enough in his bio to avoid the twist.

Sounds like we're on the same page. There have been limited recent attempts at oversized toys like Aligned RiD Grimlock and the Cyberverse Ark Optimus, but unsurprisingly those are for kids' lines. The collector lines haven't done anything like that, for obvious reasons.

Can you imagine a Titan class Optimus designed around play features, though? I think I'd love something like that, but it's not how these things work.

Personally, I like them to always try and do new things. To mix it up. Too much of Transformers suffers from inflexible expectations of the fanbase. Of Fiction being set in stone. Make Soundwave a Gestalt of Cassettes. Megatron be a Targetmaster Cannon for someone else etc etc

AcademyofDrX wrote:Can you imagine a Titan class Optimus designed around play features, though? I think I'd love something like that, but it's not how these things work.

Rescue Bots did Epic Optimus Prime, a Titan-sized non-transforming figure with tons of 5mm ports all over his arms and a playset of simple steps and platforms built into the backside of his legs. His window chest can even open up to reveal a cockpit area for smaller figures to stand inside. And yet, despite his simplicity, he still has articulation in his rotating head, shoulders, waist, and even wrists! I own it and have no regrets.

The closest to Titan Class Prime I can think of would be the only Optimus Prime figure I ever liked:
Powermaster Prime. It wouldn't be too difficult to upscale him into the same size as a regular City Bot.

Sabrblade wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:Can you imagine a Titan class Optimus designed around play features, though? I think I'd love something like that, but it's not how these things work.

Rescue Bots did Epic Optimus Prime, a Titan-sized non-transforming figure with tons of 5mm ports all over his arms and a playset of simple steps and platforms built into the backside of his legs. His window chest can even open up to reveal a cockpit area for smaller figures to stand inside. And yet, despite his simplicity, he still has articulation in his rotating head, shoulders, waist, and even wrists! I own it and have no regrets.

Non-transforming? That's a bridge too far. I might not care about scale, but I still have some standards!

@AllNew: Targetmaster / Battle Master Megatron sounds like a slam dunk. C'mon Hasbro, get on that!

The BW one step Basics were the closest I ever got to Non-Transformers in the series. There are always Gundams, Zoids etc for a greater range of Robots that don't shape-shift.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The closest to Titan Class Prime I can think of would be the only Optimus Prime figure I ever liked:
Powermaster Prime. It wouldn't be too difficult to upscale him into the same size as a regular City Bot.

There is one Optimus who went Titan-sized. More than once, even.





Sidenote: There really aren't good pics of Energon Optimus's giant forms.

I tend to follow the "close enough" scale. Prime tends to be a Voyager, Seekers and Megatron are also Voyagers, and then it's pretty much a free for all from there. Because of Animated, I tend to be more open to picking up more Decepticon Leader class figures, even if they're "too big" as the characters, and then I tend to pick up more Autobot Deluxes even if they are considered "too small" for the characters. I'll still pick up Autobot Leader class figures if I think they have a fun gimmick (Super Mode, or in the case of PMOP from TR, a spot for a LEGO AllSpark), or Decepticon Deluxes to fill out the Decepticon ranks, but in general I prefer the Decepticons to be bigger, even if it doesn't match the G1 scale chart.

For example, some people aren't happy that Sky Lynx isn't bigger because he was typically set up against Predaking (or vice versa, where they think Predaking is too big), but I honestly enjoy the scale of both. I like the idea that Predaking is massive and towers over the rest of the combiners. And then I make up the story that originally the Predacons didn't originally combine, but they decided to hunt down the Onyx Matrix for Starscream (long story that's completely off topic ), but when they got their hands on it, they merged into Predaking unexpectedly.

Sky Lynx on the other hand, I like being Commander class, because I plan to use him with the Micromasters that I currently have crewing Omega Supreme's rocket base mode because I've created a story that when the Autobot/Decepticon war left Earth, Omega was too damaged to be brought with them, and both sides just abandoned the Micromasters because they turned out to be a wasted experiment, and the Micromasters are working together to rebuild Omega, and discovered Sky Lynx on a parts gathering mission where he was in stasis lock in a NASA junkyard (sorta similar to Jetfire in ROTF), and bring him back to their base and rebuild him too.

The point I'm trying to make is that while general scale is a good thing, sometimes it's just fun to have a giant combiner with beast modes, or a larged sized dragon/griffin thing that's still big enough for Optimus to ride into battle like a Battle Cat, but not so big that it takes up a 2 foot area no matter it's mode

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The closest to Titan Class Prime I can think of would be the only Optimus Prime figure I ever liked:
Powermaster Prime. It wouldn't be too difficult to upscale him into the same size as a regular City Bot.

There is one Optimus who went Titan-sized. More than once, even.


Sidenote: There really aren't good pics of Energon Optimus's giant forms.

Of course UT would have done it already.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:The point I'm trying to make is that while general scale is a good thing, sometimes it's just fun to have a giant combiner with beast modes, or a large sized dragon/griffin thing that's still big enough for Optimus to ride into battle like a Battle Cat, but not so big that it takes up a 2 foot area no matter it's mode

I see your point.

In reference to overall scale though. I do think it was a bit unfortunate that the official stance concerning the Commander Class for this part of WFC, wouldn't be Beast Wars related. Tri-Predacus or Magnaboss would have been great redux figures. BW only had two combiners right at the beginning of the line. To think how they would look now?