What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu May 03, 2018 4:12 pm

So (Now the Forum seems to have been fixed) let's talk about the Sourcebooks and how they could have so fundamentally messed up a reference guide.

Image

Personally I only discovered the existence of the books a couple of years ago. I purchased all four for £1 each. After reading through them cover to cover, if I had paid more I might have been real mad...
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu May 03, 2018 10:01 pm

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The TPB version of the Sourcebook attempted to fix a number of the technical errors the individual volumes had, but not everything got fixed.

Though, one thing the TPB had that the individual issues didn't have was an extra feature called the Beast Wars Glossary.

Since not everyone picked up either the TPB or the Beast Wars Omnibus that collected The Gathering, The Ascending, and the Sourcebook altogether (and since IDW's BW comics are now long since out-of-print), I transcribed the Glossary in its entirety (minus its images) from my copy of the Omnibus a few months ago for all the world to see.

You can find my complete transcription of the glossary here.
Last edited by Sabrblade on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri May 04, 2018 12:27 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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Thanks for the dedication sabr :-) as for the source books themselves I wonder if they were made again now, would they still contain the errors? The beast wars stuff was among the very first releases by IDW and the first to chronicle the Japanese beast wars characters in the West.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Fri May 04, 2018 8:36 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:as for the source books themselves I wonder if they were made again now, would they still contain the errors?
I dunno that they would or not. Does IDW tend to fix technical errors in later-year reissues of their works that were error-ridden in their initial release and then partially-corrected for their TPB release?

Though, I think the window for a rerelease of the IDW BW stuff has come and gone since IDW was banking on the reception of Dawn of the Predacus to see if they could use that comic as an opportunity to rerelease their BW comics. But since that comic's release wasn't the success it was hoped to have been, nothing came about as a result.

Though, 'tis understandable considering just how much of Dawn of the Predacus went against not just the BW cartoon but against IDW's own BW comics and Sourcebooks.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri May 04, 2018 9:11 am

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I meant more if they made them for the first time now (so saying if they were never made till the present time). I think idw know better than to re-release error prone work riddled with mistakes.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 06, 2018 1:44 pm

To "Fix" it, you would need to overhaul the entire thing.

1) Bring in the artists responsible for the original Box Art, used in the bios.

2) Actually transcribe the tech specs faithfully, without any "tie-in" retcons.

3) Bring in someone with more than a passing knowledge and understanding of page layout & design.

Simple?
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:33 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
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Here's something Beast Wars-related that a lot of folks might not have seen.

An as-close-to-full-as-possible view of the artificial planet Nemesis, spliced together from a couple of shots taken from the 30th episode of Beast Wars Second, "Gigastorm's Treachery":

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:BWII_ep_30_Nemesis_full_view.jpg

Image

Click the image to view its full size.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:14 am

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That's quite cool, if unnerving
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:04 am

It's fantastic! As we've discussed elsewhere, if Megatron had found that (and it was smaller) instead of the Decepticon Warship, BW might have ended differently...

That said, it also would have been a completely acceptable replacement to the Planet Buster or Metal Hunter AKA a Vok weapn.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:35 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
How would megatron have found that if it only existed in the future? I.e. when beast wars two was set?
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:48 am

ZeroWolf wrote:How would megatron have found that if it only existed in the future? I.e. when beast wars two was set?


:???:

We are hypothetically switching out one Nemesis for another. The details of BW II are largely irrelevant in such discussion.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:20 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
You were the one who said if megatron had found it instead, I was just curious as to how you would have thought it would have played out.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:25 am

ZeroWolf wrote:You were the one who said if megatron had found it instead, I was just curious as to how you would have thought it would have played out.



Well, the Autobot Shuttle (or Tigerhawk) wouldn't have done squat to That Nemesis, and I doubt Optimal Optimus would have been able to board it either. So Megatron would have completed his goal of destroying the Ark and the timeline would have completely shattered, perhaps more so than killing Prime on his own. There were a lot of noteworthy Transformers in stasis on board the Ark after all.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:35 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
To be fair with a ship like that he would do far more damage to the world. However, I don't think he would have gotten it without a fight :lol:

A thought, what was megs going to do after he killed op? In the new timeline I don't think g1 megs would have trusted him and would have felt threatened by everything bw megs managed to do.

I mean he actually managed to do better by losing the beast wars if you think about it. He had total control of cybertron aside from nightscream, and he held power alone (he learned something that most con leaders fail to gasp)
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:59 am

ZeroWolf wrote:To be fair with a ship like that he would do far more damage to the world. However, I don't think he would have gotten it without a fight :lol:

A thought, what was megs going to do after he killed op? In the new timeline I don't think g1 megs would have trusted him and would have felt threatened by everything bw megs managed to do.

I mean he actually managed to do better by losing the beast wars if you think about it. He had total control of cybertron aside from nightscream, and he held power alone (he learned something that most con leaders fail to gasp)



In hindsight, if he had completely destroyed the (pre-historic) Earth alongside the Ark, I doubt he would have been too bothered by it :lol:

That said, this is where the "plan" of Season 3 doesn't hold up to much scrutiny, unlike the one he had in The Agenda.

He had the Spark of G1 Megatron within his body. So destroying the Ark would have destroyed G1's body alongside everyone else. What is the next part of the plan? No part of the Earth Based Great War took place, ok. What happens to G1 Megatron's spark after that? Does BW Megs keep it or reformat it within a new body? Or would he have returned to his own time with it and created a greater paradox???

Would the Great War have continued with Ultra Magnus and Shockwave on Cybertron? What would have happened to the Maximals and Predacons in general with all of those Decepticons and Autobots being erased from history?

Too Timey Wimey... :BOOM:

Yes, if Beast Machines showed nothing else, it was the BW Megs was the most successful Megatron ever. Conquering Cybertron single-handedly.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:19 pm

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That's why I greatly prefer him over g1 megs
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:27 pm

Onscreen, G1 Megatron was never better than in The Movie. In retrospect, Season One and Two of Sunbow, he is laughably inept and not intimidating in the slightest. Whereas in The Movie, he is definitely something to fear.

BW Megs, he had a consistency to his writing that few Decepticon/Predacon Leaders are allowed to have. He is very intelligent and powerful in his own right. But he is also predictably arrogant, easy to anger and not the greatest of fighters. He never really suffers from the overt nerfs of say BW II Galvatron or Gigatron from Car Robots.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:31 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
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If anything, the Autobot shuttle would have enabled the Maximals to have landed on Nemesis, at which point they would have had to disable Nemesis the way the Lio Convoy Unit did.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:53 am

Sabrblade wrote:If anything, the Autobot shuttle would have enabled the Maximals to have landed on Nemesis, at which point they would have had to disable Nemesis the way the Lio Convoy Unit did.



I had to look that up... Wow, that was a lot of plot convenience! it should have been called "Deus Ex Machina: The Episode" :lol:
From a finale like that my first thought would have been that the show was cancelled, not that was the intended way they chose to end it.

Primal's Maximals didn't have any of those plot devices in their favour. Their last chance solution was a virtual kamikaze flight by Rhinox straight into The Nemesis control room.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:23 am

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Here's another relic from the Beast past.

When I was at RoboCon two weekends ago, I purchased the Car Robots versions of Wild Ride (X-Brawn), Speedbreaker (Side Burn), and Brave Maximus all still mint-in-sealed-packaging, and the former two both came with the fabled early Car Robots toy catalog that ostensibly mentions the idea of Fire Convoy's Autobots having been a Dimensional Patrol and the idea of Gigatron and his Destrongers having been Beast Wars Predacons who came to present-day Earth from another time. These two notions were barely hinted at in the actual Car Robots anime and completely disregarded in the English Robots in Disguise dub. Nevertheless, it was supposedly these two ideas that enabled the Car Robots cartoon to be worked into the massive Japanese G1 cartoon timeline.

Wanting to find out if this was all true, I got my hands on this catalog and have transcribed the specific text that gives a description of the series' premise. Afterward, I posted the text online elsewhere and in return received a more professional-grade translation of the text (rather than using Google Translate), and it turns out that the ideas of Car Robots characters having crossed dimensions to get to 21st Century Earth was actually the case all along.

Here's the original text from the catalog:
このロボットたちは、キミの町にもいるのです。きっと…



トランスフォーマーカーロボット



次元の裂け目を潜り抜け、21世紀の現代に突如出現した、謎の侵略者集団、デストロンガー。全うちゅうたじげんに散らばる超生命体トランスフォーマーの、悪の種族デストロンの急進派である。メカ動物とロボット、両方の姿を持つ彼らの猛攻に、世界中の政府と軍隊が翻弄される。「私の名は、ギガトロン。選ばれた宇宙の独裁者だ。私は、この地球が欲しい!」彼らの目的は、地球にある全てのエネルギーの強奪!そして、全てのトランスフォーマー達を束ね、新たな秩序を構築すること!


「待てデストロンガー!我々サイバトロンがいる限り、お前達の無法は許さない!」見よ!消防車が、パトカーが!新幹線が!次々にロボットに変形!デストロンガーに戦いを挑む!彼らこそ、正義のトランスフォーマー、サイバトロンの次元パトロール隊。デストロンガーを追って来た彼らは地球の乗物をスキャン、自らの姿を変えて潜伏していたのだ。かくして、新世紀の日本で、カーロボット対ビーストウォーズの壮絶な戦いがくりひろげられる。

And here's the translation I received:
These robots in are in your town. Surely they are...

TRANSFORMERS CAR ROBOTS

Through dimensional cracks, the mysterious invader group, the Destrongers, have appeared in the present era of the 21st century. In whole, they are a radical faction of the evil Destron race, of the scattered super-lifeform Transformers. Mecha animals and robots, they use both forms in their onslaught and toy with governments and militaries all around the world. "My name is Gigatron. I am the chosen dictator of the universe. I desire this Earth!" Their purpose is to steal all of Earth's energy. And unite the Transformers under a new order!

"Stop, Destrongers! As long as we Cybertrons exist, your injustice will not be allowed!" Behold! A fire truck! A police car! Shinkansen! All transform into a robot one after the other! The Destrongers are challenged to fight! They are the Transformers of justice, the Cybertron Dimensional Patrol unit. They came after the Destrongers, scanned Earth's vehicles, changed their forms and laid in wait. In the new century's Japan, the fierce battle of Car Robots versus Beast Wars unfolds.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:28 am

Interesting. So it's along similar lines to the Beast Wars mini comic IE Crossing Generations. To be fair, if they had played it (a lot) less for comedic effect, Car Robots could have been tied into Beast Wars proper.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:31 am

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Interesting. So it's along similar lines to the Beast Wars mini comic IE Crossing Generations.
...Not really? Image

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To be fair, if they had played it (a lot) less for comedic effect, Car Robots could have been tied into Beast Wars proper.
That's how Beast Wars was in Japan. It was jovial and comedic.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:36 am

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Interesting. So it's along similar lines to the Beast Wars mini comic IE Crossing Generations.
...Not really? Image


The mini comic was a transition from G1 into Beast Era. Similarly this synopsis suggests pitting one era against the other.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To be fair, if they had played it (a lot) less for comedic effect, Car Robots could have been tied into Beast Wars proper.
That's how Beast Wars was in Japan. It was jovial and comedic.


That's why I said Beast Wars proper, not their Beast Wars.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:39 am

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Interesting. So it's along similar lines to the Beast Wars mini comic IE Crossing Generations.
...Not really? Image


The mini comic was a transition from G1 into Beast Era. Similarly this synopsis suggests pitting one era against the other.
But... the mini-comic didn't do that.

It just treated everything like the animal forms and new faction names were the standard normal just because.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:47 am

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Interesting. So it's along similar lines to the Beast Wars mini comic IE Crossing Generations.
...Not really? Image


The mini comic was a transition from G1 into Beast Era. Similarly this synopsis suggests pitting one era against the other.
But... the mini-comic didn't do that.

It just treated everything like the animal forms and new faction names were the standard normal just because.


Yes it did, because in the mini comic they were supposed to be the actual G1 characters (Prime and Megatron specifically). Both of which were dead/lost by the "end" of G1. From that you could infer they were reformatted into the Bat/Gator forms for a new era. In which everyone had a beast form and there was no Trukk or Gun-Bot in sight. There wasn't much to the mini comic, suffice to say it was a New Era.
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