What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:57 am

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Sounds like y'all need to read "A Meeting of Minds" by Simon Furman. ;)
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:59 am

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Let's be honest, we could fill a thread with ideas on how to make Beast Machines a better show...
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:13 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Let's be honest, we could fill a thread with ideas on how to make Beast Machines a better show...

Would the first point be to not to have made it :lol: what hurts more and with the loss of transtech (at least in terms of non-club material) is the loss of potential. I know some designs were salvaged but there's always the thought of what could have been.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:18 am

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It could have work, if they hadn't undermined practically all of Beast Wars characterisation. As far as Transtech goes... My stance is the same as with the rest of the Beast Era IE if it wasn't part of a show, it doesn't count. So in that way I put Transtech in the same "concept only" boat as Machine Wars. The convention exclusive stuff, just non-canon fanfic.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:26 pm

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At least Machine Wars made it to some store shelves though :lol:
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:55 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:At least Machine Wars made it to some store shelves though :lol:



True. Weirdly enough, to look at some of the Transtech concept art I was curious how some of them would even work as figures...

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Let alone, how they would stand??? :lol:
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:29 am

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I like how they tweaked it to make Animated Blurr, also getting Guyver vibes from Cheetors head there.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:50 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:I like how they tweaked it to make Animated Blurr, also getting Guyver vibes from Cheetors head there.



Indeed. Definitely saw Guyver there myself. Transtech sounded so interesting in that it seemed to be Reboot, with Transformers. I wonder if we would have gotten some Vok resolution from it?

Meanwhile, DREAM CASTING:

Season One - 14 characters.

I stuck to the character limit but not how they were arranged by the show. I like the concept of Guerrilla Warfare, so my roster would have been based around squads, defending Territories.

Maximal - Axalon:

Optimus Primal (Bat)
Silverbolt (AKA Magnaboss Silverbolt)
Airazor

Maximal - Combat:

Dinobot
Armordillo
Wolfang
Polar Claw

Predacon - Darksyde:

Megatron
Transquito
Terrorsaur

Predacon - Raiders:

Manterror
Razorclaw
Spittor
Jetstorm - Drone

The idea being the Base unit is Stasis Pod recovery and air support. The secondary team is direct conflict and Energon retrieval.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 13, 2020 8:23 am

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Interesting... :APPLAUSE:
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed May 13, 2020 8:43 am

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Makes sense. I wouldn't have expected him to have known about the change from Wolfang to Tigatron, but it does explain Tigatron's sort of "lone wolf" status in the show.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 13, 2020 8:51 am

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Exactly. When you look at the dialogue in Fallen Comrades, it could easily have been applied to any of the three candidates - Tigatron, Wolfang or Polar Claw.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 am

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Polar claw would have been a nice addition as would Wolffang
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 13, 2020 8:59 am

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If budget hadn't forced their hand, ideally I would have liked Wolfang as Tigatron (Or Polar Claw, but with a Bulkhead-type personality). Plus either Snapper or Razorclaw in lieu of Blackarachnia. Either design could have been repurposed as a Fembot.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed May 13, 2020 9:06 am

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Interestingly enough, since we didn't get Polar Claw in the show, the Japanese toyline of Beast Wars season 1 gave Polar Claw a cartoon-based bio that gave him a command rank, as though Takara intended to market him as Optimus Primal's second-in-command.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 13, 2020 9:11 am

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That is the strangest part of it all though. The toys clearly marketed Polar Claw as the rival to Scorponok. Mirrored by the second-in-command idea. Plus he was one of the biggest figures in the Maximal ranks. Yet the show just bypassed him completely? They never really mention why? If not "Tigatron", why was he not "Rhinox"? Who more or less filled that role.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed May 13, 2020 9:18 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That is the strangest part of it all though. The toys clearly marketed Polar Claw as the rival to Scorponok. Mirrored by the second-in-command idea. Plus he was one of the biggest figures in the Maximal ranks. Yet the show just bypassed him completely? They never really mention why? If not "Tigatron", why was he not "Rhinox"? Who more or less filled that role.
Perhaps due to the Africa setting is why they chose mainly African-based Maximals for the show's initial cast: Optimus, Rhinox, Cheetor, and such. A polar bear would have been out of place in such locales, and only later when they decided to expand the cast did they decided to include a polar operative, but ultimately picked Tigatron to save on creating a whole new CG model from scratch, but kept the polar lone wolf status for the character.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed May 13, 2020 9:22 am

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True, true. Although Bearhawk would have looked pretty cool (and massive). I imagine "snowstalker" might even have been the bat accessory, if Tigatron had been Polar Claw. That pairing (much like Scorponok and his Cyber Bee) without context, was very strange.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:22 pm

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I just had an epiphany!

New headcanon: Any characterization discrepancies between the Beast Wars and Beast Machines depictions of the Maximals can be chalked up to the Oracle secretly reformatting more than just their bodies. ;)
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:53 pm

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Been re-watching Beast Wars lately and, after completing season 1, I feel that that season could stand to have some of its episodes rearranged for a much improved continuity. Not all of them, just ten of the episodes. Taking note of certain things said and done in each episode, I feel I have found a more proper viewing order that creates a stronger sense of continuity, chronology, and inter-episode connectivity.

Basically, it involves making the following changes:
  • Swapping the placements of "The Web" and "Equal Measures"
  • Moving "Power Surge" later to come right after "Double Jeopardy"
    Swapping the placements of "Gorilla Warfare" and "Double Dinobot"
  • Moving "Dark Designs" to come right before "A Better Mousetrap" (and right after the similarly moved "Power Surge")
  • Swapping the placements of "Dark Voyage" and "Possession", AND moving both to come between "The Spark" and "The Trigger, Part 1"
  • And swapping the placements of "Call of the Wild" and "Law of the Jungle".

Here's the full rundown:


We begin with "Beast Wars (Part 1)" and "Beast Wars (Part 2)". No explanations needed.


Then comes "Equal Measures" first followed by "The Web". In both episodes, Cheetor gets into trouble by disobeying Optimus's orders and seems to learn his lesson by the end of each. However, in "Equal Measures", he got a lucky break and is far less sincere about having learned his lesson, while in "The Web", he went through a much more traumatic ordeal and sounds much more genuine when he claims to have learned his lesson. Placing the episodes in this order makes Cheetor seem not only more sincere but less hypocritical as well. It makes his lesson feel more truly learned.

Plus, Optimus is less harsh on Cheetor in "Equal Measures" but threatens a more severe punishment should Cheetor ever disobey him again. And in "The Web", Optimus is very stern with Cheetor for his rash actions in that episode. Placing the episodes in this order makes Optimus a man of his word. Not to mention that "The Web" has Cheetor claim he can sneak into the Predacons' base, as if he's been there before. In "Equal Measures", he is transported directly inside the Predacon base and runs all over it, getting the lay of the land during his visit.

Placing "Equal Measures" first makes his claim in "Equal Measures" feel more valid since we would have already seen him pay a visit to the Predacon base before that episode. It also felt more sensible to me for the episode that showcases the Predacon base's interior to come before the one that showcases Tarantulas's lair, since the base is the more important of the two. And finally, it is stated that "The Web" is set at least a month after the events of the two pilot episodes, when it doesn't feel like it's been that long since then. Placing "Equal Measures" during that month-long gap fills it in a bit to make it feel more believable.



Next come "Chain of Command" and "Fallen Comrades". Originally, I had considered moving "Chain of Command" to come after "Fallen Comrades" since, in the scene of the alien probe falling from the sky, Megatron mistakenly thinks it's a stasis pod. When he does so, the scene feels like we, the audience, are supposed to already know about stasis pods, what they are, why they're important, and what they entail for episodes that feature them. I figured that placing the first actual stasis pod episode, "Fallen Comrades", before "Chain of Command" would help alleviate that scene's expectations for the audience.

But, the more I tried to watch "Fallen Comrades" and "Chain of Command" in that order, the less it felt right to switch them after all. While it can fit coming after, "Chain of Command" still has that sort of innocent feel of the very early episodes, as if the characters are still very new to this world that they're stranded on. Plus, there's a shot during the episode where Tarantulas goes after Cheetor, gets shot by Rattrap, and then Cheetor gives his pal the thumbs up. This felt like a neat little callback to Rattrap saving Cheetor from Tarantulas back in "The Web", and thus felt the most appropriate as a direct follow-up to that episode.

It would also feel weird that none of the Maximals would give Tigatron a call to break the tie vote between Dinobot and Rattrap were his debut episode to come first. Thus, no change to the placement of "Chain of Command" is needed with "Fallen Comrades" coming after it since "Power Surge" gets moved to later. Speaking of which…



Next we have "Double Jeopardy" and "Power Surge". It has long been theorized that "Power Surge" was supposed to come after "Double Jeopardy" instead of before it, since "Double Jeopardy" is the episode where Terrorsaur tries to usurp Megatron's leadership, but ultimately fails. In "Power Surge", Megatron says to Terrorsaur "I thought you already learned your lesson about challenging me, Terrorsaur." In this new order, that line now makes sense. Otherwise, the original order required us to simply assume that Megatron was referring to some off-screen event, which isn't as interesting.

"Power Surge" can absolutely fit coming after "Double Jeopardy" for two reasons. First, Blackarachnia's absence from "Power Surge" can be easily explained by the fact that Megatron said she went missing at the end of "Double Jeopardy". The last we see of her in that episode is her walking off out of view after defeating Cheetor in that episode's battle. We'd never know that she actually disappeared after that had Megatron not said so. So during "Power Surge", she'd simply still be missing during that time.Second, the Predacons test out the targeting function of their new autoguns in "Power Surge". These autoguns are never seen in "Double Jeopardy" or any other episode beforehand, so no contradiction there.



Next up are "Dark Designs" and "A Better Mousetrap". Watching "A Better Mousetrap" right after "Double Jeopardy" never seemed right to me, to be honest. With that episode ending with her going missing and focusing more on Rattrap and Terrorsaur, it always seemed weird to me that we get this episode where the newcomer Blackarachnia is not only in charge of a mission but also already annoyed by her comrades' complaining. It made the episode feel like it took place a decent amount of time after her debut episode instead of right after.

After having already moved "Power Surge" to come after "Double Jeopardy", it still didn't feel right placing "A Better Mousetrap" after that one either since Blackarachnia is absent from that episode, and going from one where she's gone to one where she's back and suddenly in charge still felt kinda jarring. But, after watching "Dark Designs", I got the impression that that episode would fit better coming earlier in the series since, in that episode, Megatron says early on that he underestimated Rhinox after getting beaten by him.

To me, this meant that the episode had to come somewhere before both "The Probe" and "Victory" since Rhinox lands some pretty up close and personal blows to Megatron in both of those episodes. Looking at which other episodes were gonna come before "The Probe", I hit upon the idea of placing this one between "Power Surge" and "A Better Mousetrap". Like both "Double Jeopardy" and "Power Surge", Terrorsaur harbors feels of treachery and self-serving ambition, but to a much less extent. I figured that even the humiliations he suffers in both of those wouldn't be enough to make him fall back in line in being loyal to Megatron, but the events of this episode could be what puts him back into willingly serving Megatron.

After all, "A Better Mousetrap" sees Terrorsaur wanting to carry out Megatron's orders, so I felt like there should be one more episode to come between his greatest betrayal in "Power Surge" and his renewed sense of loyalty in "A Better Mousetrap". "Dark Designs" also serves as a good means of bringing Blackarachnia back into the show after her disappearance in "Double Jeopardy" and continued absence in "Power Surge". When the Predacons ambush the Maximals at the start of this episode, Blackarachnia is curiously absent (again). But later in the episode, she is seen already back at the Predacon base like she was always there. This gives her an off-screen return to parallel to her off-screen disappearance earlier.

Plus, she is initially seen hanging out with Megatron, as if she was trying to cozy up to the boss and get in his good graces, which would provide some plausible explanation for how and why she was leading the Predacons' mission seen in "A Better Mousetrap".



Then come "Double Dinobot", "The Probe", and "Victory". With the activation of Sentinel in "A Better Mousetrap", it felt the most appropriate placing "Double Dinobot" right after it since the whole point of Megatron creating the Dinobot clone was to sneak him into the base and deactivate Sentinel. This is the only episode where Sentinel is directly targeted and still feels like a fairly recent development. It made sense to me that Megatron would want to target Sentinel sooner rather than later. Like, the Maximals just got this new advantage in the Beast Wars, so he'd want to get rid of it upon first hearing about it. Yeeeesss.

As for "The Probe" and "Victory", these two become the 12th and 13th episodes, respectively. I wanted the 13th episode to be one that could serve as a good midseason finale, and "Victory" does just that. Originally, I wanted to see if I could use both parts of "The Trigger" for this, but there were too many episodes that had to come before that two-parter. Still, "Victory" works well since it's a big climactic episode that nearly sees the Maximals end the Beast Wars and return home to Cybertron. However, "The Probe" needed to come before "Victory" since the two episodes act as a complete narrative when it comes to Dinobot's depiction in both.

In "The Probe", Dinobot is not excited about contacting the probe and alerting Cybertron to their whereabouts since he feels that he would be discriminated by the Maximal authorities, considered nothing more than a Predacon criminal. When Optimus assures him that he'll be treated properly as a Maximal, he says he doesn't want that either. In "Victory", Dinobot continues this hesitance to return to Cybertron and reiterates that he'd be treated as just a criminal, as though this episode was Part 2 of a two-parter. The end result of this is his decision to stay behind on the planet and not return to Cybertron. Both "Victory" and "The Probe" were grouped together in the original broadcast order, and it felt right keeping them together in this new order of mine.



Next are "Gorilla Warfare" and "The Spark". "Gorilla Warfare" was the last remaining episode to not feature Airazor at all and is thus the last one to come before her debut. Plus, with "The Probe" and "Victory" together serving as a good midseason finale, I wanted the 14th episode to be one that could serve as a good midseason opener. "Gorilla Warfare" is an Optimus-centric episode that also has a healthy amount of screentime for all of the other main Maximals. It also has a very exciting battle scene that makes for a good spectacle with which to open the season's second half.

"Gorilla Warfare" also works as a good follow-up to "Victory" in that Optimus resumes exploration of the planet, as though he and the other Maximals have accepted the fact that they really are stuck here for the time being with no way to get back home, and might as well get some scientific research out of it. Plus, the Predacons specifically targeting Optimus's courage in this episode would make sense coming after "Victory" since it was Optimus who bravely saved the Axalon from crashing and guided it back down to a safe landing. Taking Optimus out of the picture in this episode would prevent him to repeating such a heroic save in any future incident should the Maximals ever find themselves in another life-or-death situation like that.

Anyway, "The Spark" comes after that since Airazor is in (or mentioned) in every episode after, leaving this episode untouched in its original 15th episode placement.



Then we get "Possession" and "Dark Voyage". Inferno is unusually absent from these episodes, allowing both of them to come earlier. "Dark Voyage" always felt like an early episode, especially with Dinobot still referring to the Pit as "the Inferno". Yet, the episode was both produced and aired after Inferno's debut. But, because Airazor is mentioned by Optimus, this episode could not come any earlier than after "The Spark".

"Possession", similarly, does not feature Inferno at all, yet still came after his debut. Moving it up to come before both parts of "The Trigger" actually patches up a bit of continuity that always felt off to me in that two-parter. In that episode, Blackarachnia harbors a thirst for power and a desire to overthrow Megatron and rule the Predacons. Megatron is also suspicious of her ambitions and cautions Scorponok to watch her. However, in the original broadcast order, Blackarachnia never held such desires in any prior episodes and thus never gave Megatron any reason to distrust her.

In "Possession", Blackarachnia is taught the ways of deception by Starscream. She also uses what she learned to smooth-talk her way back into Megatron's good graces, but not without him still leery of her. Placing this episode before "The Trigger" thus creates a more complete picture of Blackarachia's descent into treachery, as the only time beforehand that she ever expressed any kind of disdain for Megatron was in "The Spark" wherein she complained to Scorponok "Don't you ever get tired of groveling to that saurian?" But, that was brief and she never again expressed such frustration in the rest of the episode. Placing "Possession" here completes that development.

However, I also switched these two episodes around to place "Possession" first for three reasons. First, Airazor's absence from "Dark Voyage" didn't feel right coming right after her debut. Unlike Tigatron's preference to be on his own and Blackarachnia's natural tendency to sneak away, Airazor became a full-time resident of her team's base, and it felt wrong to put the episode wherein she is only-mentioned-and-never-seen right after her debut. While she only has a minor role in "Possession", she is at least still present for some of it.

Second, I mentioned before that Blackarachnia was getting tired of working for Megatron in "The Spark", which was only a momentary feeling in the original broadcast order. Placing the episode wherein she first develops her treacherous nature right after that episode suddenly makes her frustration in that episode all the more meaningful, now serving as foreshadowing to the events of "Possession".

Third, I also said that Megatron become wary of Blackarachnia by the end of "Possession", so his choosing send her out on such an important mission in "The Trigger", so soon after "Possession" had just given him ample reason to distrust her, felt a bit reckless on his part. Placing "Dark Voyage" between "Possession" and "The Trigger" gives some breathing room that allows Megatron to ease up on his suspicions of Blackarachnia. Not completely (as evidenced by his whispers to Scorponok) but just enough to make him willing to send her out on the mission to the floating island.


Next up are "The Trigger, Part 1" and "The Trigger, Part 2". Every episode to come after these feature Inferno, so these two had to be next. Simple as that.


Then we get "Spider's Game" and "Law of the Jungle". Both of these episodes serve as direct follow-ups to the events of "The Trigger", with Tarantulas beginning his endgame plan to escape the planet in "Spider's Game", believing that it's doomed after the destruction of the flying island, while "Law of the Jungle" begins with the Maximals searching for any more alien sites after their previous encounter with the flying island. While some might say that this makes "Law of the Jungle" feel more like a direct lead-in to "Before the Storm", the alien anomaly in that episode comes more as a surprise to everyone, as though it just showed up out of the blue instead of being something that both sides were deliberately looking for.

Conversely, the Maximals' search for more alien sites in this episode feels specifically like a direct response to the events of "The Trigger", like an epilogue to that episode. And by the episode's end, there's no indication that they are still looking for more alien sites, allowing the remaining filler episodes to follow it before the final three alien-centric episodes. But, Inferno's presence in this episode means that "Spider's Game" still has to come before it, making it only a semi-direct follow-up to "The Trigger" instead of an immediate one.

What's more, Inferno refers to Tigatron as "Destroyer of my colony", in direct reference to Tigatron having been the one who destroyed Inferno's stasis pod in "Spider's Game". Since Inferno would come to accept the Predacon base as his "colony" in later episodes, it made the most sense for the episode in which he still considers his stasis pod to have been his colony to come right after the episode where that was first the case.

Plus, Terrorsaur and Waspinator have some difficulty getting along with Inferno in this episode, as he initially doesn't adhere to any of their orders or signals. This could give the impression that Inferno is still new to the Predacons and everyone is still getting used to him. Whereas, in his other episodes, there is no such conflict between him and the other Preds (before the season finale, that is), as if everyone had already adjusted to his addition to the Predacon team.



Next up are "The Low Road" and "Call of the Wild". These are the last two filler episodes left to place in the series before the final three. I decided to keep "The Low Road" as the 22nd episode, placing "Call of the Wild" after it, because of how Inferno is depicted in both episodes. In "The Low Road", Inferno participates in a frontal assault on the Maximal base, but is barely featured in the rest of the episode. In "Call of the Wild", he only appears as a background figure during the Predacons' hunt and subsequent defeat by the Maximals. I never liked how "Call of the Wild" officially came right after "Spider's Game" since it greatly reduced Inferno's role so soon after his debut. He goes from such a prominent figure to such a non-entity.

While one could say the same about Tigatron, Blackarachnia, and Airazor in this new order of mine, Tigatron requested to remain on his own, Blackarachnia officially went missing, and Airazor was still mentioned as having been sent out in the field. Inferno doesn't have an excuse since he still appears in all episodes after his debut, and it felt wrong to reduce him so abruptly. Thus, from his debut to the end of the season, I've arranged his appearances like so: Prominent in "Spider's Game", still prominent in "Law of the Jungle", less prominent in "The Low Road", irrelevant in "Call of the Wild", and ordinary relevance in the final three episodes.

Plus, between these two, "The Low Road" is, of course, the more humiliating defeat for the Predacons while "Call of the Wild" is a more triumphant victory for the Maximals. To me, it made more sense thematically to go out on a higher note for the final episode to come before the three finale episodes. And, with how Megatron's plan in "Call of the Wild" seemed to be the more personally degrading and harmful to the Maximals, with a bit of petty suffering thrown in, placing the episodes in this order made Megatron's plan in "Call of the Wild" feel like a nice revenge plot on the Maximals after the disgrace he suffered at the end of "The Low Road".


And finally, we close out the season with "Before the Storm", "Other Voices, Part 1" and "Other Voices, Part 2". Again, no explanations needed.



Episode list:

01. (01) "Beast Wars (Part 1)"
02. (02) "Beast Wars (Part 2)"
03. (04) "Equal Measures"
04. (03) "The Web"
05. (05) "Chain of Command"
06. (07) "Fallen Comrades"
07. (08) "Double Jeopardy"
08. (06) "Power Surge"
09. (13) "Dark Designs"
10. (09) "A Better Mousetrap"
11. (14) "Double Dinobot"
12. (11) "The Probe"
13. (12) "Victory"
14. (10) "Gorilla Warfare"
15. (15) "The Spark"
16. (21) "Possession"
17. (20) "Dark Voyage"
18. (16) "The Trigger, Part 1"
19. (17) "The Trigger, Part 2"
20. (18) "Spider's Game"
21. (23) "Law of the Jungle"
22. (22) "The Low Road"
23. (19) "Call of the Wild"
24. (24) "Before the Storm"
25. (25) "Other Voices, Part 1"
26. (26) "Other Voices, Part 2"



Once I had this new episode order figured out, I noticed a coincidental pattern to this order that enabled the episodes to be broken down into several mini-arcs that revolve around similar themes:
  • "Beast Wars (Part 1)" to "Chain of Command" center around the beginning of the war and the newness of everything.
  • "Fallen Comrades" to "Dark Designs" focus on the theme of change: New recruits, shifting allegiances, changes in command, etc.
  • "A Better Mousetrap" to "Victory" emphasize the importance of home: Sentinel is created to increase security for the Axalon, and the Maximals try to go back home to Cybertron.
  • "Gorilla Warfare" to "Dark Voyage" deal with the fragility of life: Optimus nearly dies from a viral mine, Airazor almost isn't born, Rhinox nearly dies helping her, Dinobot pretends to be near dead, Starscream is a literal ghost, and four of the Maximals nearly die trying to get back to their base.
  • "The Trigger, Part 1" to "Law of the Jungle" are the beginning of the end, bringing an ominous sense of foreboding doom to come from beyond the stars.
  • And "The Low Road" to "Other Voices, Part 2" are the culmination of everything, the end of an era.
Last edited by Sabrblade on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:07 pm

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Holy crap, dude! That's a lot to write. But I love the idea. Honestly, I didn't read through the whole post (I do find it interesting, but I just finished a 12-hour work shift and I'm dead tired so I'll read it tomorrow), but i did make notes of the new order you recommend, and the next time I watch the series (most likely after I watch Kingdom) I'll give it a shot.

Calling season 1 "the end of an era" brings up a curious idea: if Beast Wars had been canceled after season 1, would the ending have been a massive disappointment or an infamous cliffhanger?
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:40 am

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That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Calling season 1 "the end of an era" brings up a curious idea: if Beast Wars had been canceled after season 1, would the ending have been a massive disappointment or an infamous cliffhanger?


I'd say infamous cliffhanger. The sheer shock value of that ending would have guaranteed it. Very rare of course in most cartoons, for the villains to get that kind of win.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Rodimus Prime » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:27 am

Motto: "Contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it."
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Calling season 1 "the end of an era" brings up a curious idea: if Beast Wars had been canceled after season 1, would the ending have been a massive disappointment or an infamous cliffhanger?


I'd say infamous cliffhanger. The sheer shock value of that ending would have guaranteed it. Very rare of course in most cartoons, for the villains to get that kind of win.
And Megatron's last line would have been so perfect. "The Beast Wars are over! You lose!"
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:28 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.
Yeah, I had considered maybe trying to separate them, but then Dinobot's story across both felt less contiguous and more broken apart. Without the setup in "The Probe" coming immediately before it, I feel Optimus would have protested more about Dinobot's decision to stay behind. As is, he protests less and understands more, having been given the proper reasons closer to that point.

Plus, "Victory" opens with the Maximals having previously hidden a spy camera inside the Predacon base. After Scorponok had spied on them and alert Megatron to their signal array in "The Probe", I feel like the Maximals could have been inspired to spy on the Preds by Scorponok's spying on them.


Ironically, I recently added all of the BW episode production codes to the episode list on the Wiki, courtesy of TFRaw.com's complete BW episode script PDFs, and bizarrely enough, "The Probe" was actually the ninth episode produced and "A Better Mousetrap" was the 11th. The two were switched in the broadcast order since Sentinel is featured in "The Probe". They switched them around so that Sentinel's creation in "A Better Mousetrap" came first.

This is also why "A Better Mousetrap" and "The Probe" are sometimes switched on home media releases, since those releases went by production order instead of broadcast order despite the continuity error that creates with Sentinel appearing before its first created.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:36 am

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
Always Guilty..."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Rodimus Prime wrote:And Megatron's last line would have been so perfect. "The Beast Wars are over! You lose!"



Absolutely! Megatron might have been a bit wishy-washy with his characterisation in Season One. But the ending was definitely paving the way for his Season Two portrayal.

Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.
Yeah, I had considered maybe trying to separate them, but then Dinobot's story across both felt less contiguous and more broken apart. Without the setup in "The Probe" coming immediately before it, I feel Optimus would have protested more about Dinobot's decision to stay behind. As is, he protests less and understands more, having been given the proper reasons closer to that point.

Plus, "Victory" opens with the Maximals having previously hidden a spy camera inside the Predacon base. After Scorponok had spied on them and alert Megatron to their signal array in "The Probe", I feel like the Maximals could have been inspired to spy on the Preds by Scorponok's spying on them.


Ironically, I recently added all of the BW episode production codes to the episode list on the Wiki, courtesy of TFRaw.com's complete BW episode script PDFs, and bizarrely enough, "The Probe" was actually the ninth episode produced and "A Better Mousetrap" was the 11th. The two were switched in the broadcast order since Sentinel is featured in "The Probe". They switched them around so that Sentinel's creation in "A Better Mousetrap" came first.

This is also why "A Better Mousetrap" and "The Probe" are sometimes switched on home media releases, since those releases went by production order instead of broadcast order despite the continuity error that creates with Sentinel appearing before its first created.


I believe that was the case in the UK TV release too. The Probe before A Better Mousetrap. I always thought both stories didn't have to be in Season One. The main premise of the probe could have happened in any season. It might have been a bit more unique and impactful if they had held onto it for later too.

Plus, I always thought Victory was a bit of a copout. It could have been a ideal time to literally move the Maximals to another location. Instead, Primal puts the Axalon back in the exact same space.
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Re: What Might Have Been - Beast Wars Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:02 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I believe that was the case in the UK TV release too. The Probe before A Better Mousetrap. I always thought both stories didn't have to be in Season One. The main premise of the probe could have happened in any season. It might have been a bit more unique and impactful if they had held onto it for later too.

Plus, I always thought Victory was a bit of a copout. It could have been a ideal time to literally move the Maximals to another location. Instead, Primal puts the Axalon back in the exact same space.
Well, they simply thought of both during season 1. Season 2 wasn't in the works yet since, at the time they were writing both episodes, there was no guarantee that they'd get a season 2.

Plus, when they did get a second season, it was apparently planned out from the beginning (unlike how season 1 was just made up as they went along) since foreshadows to "The Agenda" were hinted at throughout the season, as early as "Coming of the Fuzors (Part 1)".

As for Optimus moving the Axalon somewhere else, the show was already expensive to make as it was. relocating the ship would have likely cost an arm and a leg since a new environment would have had to be modeled from the ground up, or an existing one would have had to be re-modeled to accommodate the Axalon. They went with the most economical decision since this show didn't have a bottomless budget.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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