IDW The Transformers #52 Griffith / Burcham and Burcham Covers

I love Burcham's art so much. You have no idea how many art pieces of his are saved to my laptop and phone. And the AoE reference with Sky and Prime is cool

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I love Burcham's art so much. You have no idea how many art pieces of his are saved to my laptop and phone. And the AoE reference with Sky and Prime is cool

Oh look, an original piece - no, two - by him in my folder...



Sorry, wanted to.

YES! The Optimus Riding Dragon thing is excellent!

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I love Burcham's art so much. You have no idea how many art pieces of his are saved to my laptop and phone. And the AoE reference with Sky and Prime is cool

YES! The Optimus Riding Dragon thing is excellent!

I love it! If my profile pic is anything to go by (which it is BTW) then you should know my opinion on Transformers riding beasts and how awesomesauce it is

The Josh Burcham cover reminds me of Lee Sullivan's TFUK work. Lovely stuff.

Well looks like Sky-Lynx getting severely injured *did* serve a purpose after all (CW design anyone??) I know because Hound, Trailbreaker, Smokescreen and Wheeljack are all spread out across the various series, Sky Reign is not likely to show up soon, but somehow I can see Hasbro asking IDW to shoehorn it is somehow...

o.supreme wrote:Well looks like Sky-Lynx getting severely injured *did* serve a purpose after all (CW design anyone??) I know because Hound, Trailbreaker, Smokescreen and Wheeljack are all spread out across the various series, Sky Reign is not likely to show up soon, but somehow I can see Hasbro asking IDW to shoehorn it is somehow...

But that would be nearly impossible seeing as how Trailbreaker is dead, Hound and Smokescreen are "mutinous" Lost Lighters, and Wheeljack is on Cybertron. Trailbreaker would be the biggest issue

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Well looks like Sky-Lynx getting severely injured *did* serve a purpose after all (CW design anyone??) I know because Hound, Trailbreaker, Smokescreen and Wheeljack are all spread out across the various series, Sky Reign is not likely to show up soon, but somehow I can see Hasbro asking IDW to shoehorn it is somehow...

But that would be nearly impossible seeing as how Trailbreaker is dead, Hound and Smokescreen are "mutinous" Lost Lighters, and Wheeljack is on Cybertron. Trailbreaker would be the biggest issue

Eh, don't think that would bother Hasbro too much, they just issue orders.

From the usual iTunes links, we get the short paged preview of the next issue of IDW's The Transformers, with Livio Ramondelli returning on art duties for #52! Check out the snippet below, as we will receive the full preview in about a week or two's time.

ALL HAIL OPTIMUS part 3! OPTIMUS PRIME has declared the Earth to be his territory… but even he can’t go it alone. Now he reaches out across the galaxy to form a coalition—of old friends and older enemies.

At least Prime has a new arm.

wonder what the deal is with Skywarp? He and Blackrock doing some stuff potentially? Hmm

Well Livios art is getting better. Marginally.

I just want him to stop being "Event" book guy. You can tell when he rushes and when he's got the time to draw

Randomhero wrote:Well Livios art is getting better. Marginally.

I just want him to stop being "Event" book guy. You can tell when he rushes and when he's got the time to draw

Yeah, Livio's art always leaves me conflicted. When he really gets into something its amazing what he can do, but the quality has a tendency to vary spectacularly from panel to panel. Like that first shot of optimus on page three here is beautiful, but then immediately after you have a tilted and lopsided starscream. If anyone's in doubt about his abilities, check out the man's deviantart page, but geez I wish his talents would be utilized better on transformers comics.

The other Transformers comics update today from IDW comes via Newsarama, who have the full preview for The Transformers #52 out next week! Make sure to check out the whole thing below, and head back here for the Seibertron.com review on Wednesday.

Transformers #52
John Barber (w) • Livio Ramondelli (a) Andrew Griffith (c)
ALL HAIL OPTIMUS part 3! OPTIMUS PRIME has declared the Earth to be his territory… but even he can’t go it alone. Now he reaches out across the galaxy to form a coalition—of old friends and older enemies.
FC • 32 pages • $3.99
Bullet points:
· Special guest artist Livio Ramondelli takes us to CYBERTRON and beyond!
· Who will stand with Optimus—and who will turn against him?
· Part of IDW’s “Art Appreciation Month” promotion!
· Variant Cover by Priscilla Tramontano!

huh. i think I missed an issue...

CHANK!

Theres some good stuff going on here. I'm really looking forward to this

when did blackrock become all roboty-looking? I thought last issue he still sported a human face?

Optimizzy wrote:when did blackrock become all roboty-looking? I thought last issue he still sported a human face?

Already at the end of #50 we see the under-human Cybertronian side - was that not something you've come across?

Dr Va'al wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:when did blackrock become all roboty-looking? I thought last issue he still sported a human face?

Already at the end of #50 we see the under-human Cybertronian side - was that not something you've come across?

I dunno. Maybe. It's been a while so I might have just forgotten about it or didn't think it would alter his appearance. It's possible that the art shift didn't help either cause I really didn't know who was what until I thought about it. I seriously thought he was some robo-butler at first glance.

Optimizzy wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:when did blackrock become all roboty-looking? I thought last issue he still sported a human face?

Already at the end of #50 we see the under-human Cybertronian side - was that not something you've come across?

I dunno. Maybe. It's been a while so I might have just forgotten about it or didn't think it would alter his appearance. It's possible that the art shift didn't help either cause I really didn't know who was what until I thought about it. I seriously thought he was some robo-butler at first glance.

Real reason, Livio can't draw people.

It's amazing that we've seen all these locations in previous issues where they are all brightly lit and colorful...then Livio comes in and turns them all into dark, murky nothing areas and treats every place like everyone is saving on their electric bills.

Yeah, I've never been a fan of his art. It just looks messy. I catch myself just reading the words and not even paying attention to the pictures.
But he's been around for a while, so I'll just have to get over it.
Speaking of artists, what ever happened to Stone? Do we know?

LE0KING wrote:Speaking of artists, what ever happened to Stone? Do we know?

Personal issues is all we're told. Shame, though.

Amelie wrote:Livio is IDW equivalent to Marvel UK's Jeff Anderson.

Is that good or bad? (Never read Marvel UK, don't know who Anderson is.)

Dr Va'al wrote:

LE0KING wrote:Speaking of artists, what ever happened to Stone? Do we know?

Personal issues is all we're told. Shame, though.

That's too bad, I'll miss her taking my giant murder-bots and making them pretty.

Pure rubish. Given the past history of both Optimus and Starscream, for the council to take Screamers side over Prime is ridiculous. Like, takes me out if the story ridiculous.

Ironhidensh wrote:Pure rubish. Given the past history of both Optimus and Starscream, for the council to take Screamers side over Prime is ridiculous. Like, takes me out if the story ridiculous.

I'd agree but this is not the full comic or the entire scene. It's just the first couple pages.

I do however can't not think that Starscream was one of the first decepticons to attempt an invasion on earth back in the -action series and participate in the all out assault on earth AND return to earth in the ongoing with the rest of the Decepticons. That can't be ignored.

Randomhero wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Pure rubish. Given the past history of both Optimus and Starscream, for the council to take Screamers side over Prime is ridiculous. Like, takes me out if the story ridiculous.

I'd agree but this is not the full comic or the entire scene. It's just the first couple pages.

I do however can't not think that Starscream was one of the first decepticons to attempt an invasion on earth back in the -action series and participate in the all out assault on earth AND return to earth in the ongoing with the rest of the Decepticons. That can't be ignored.

Does the council know that, though? He brokered a fair few of those deals himself, where Windblade didn't, and I'm certain he didn't let slip that he had expansionist tactics in the past.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Pure rubish. Given the past history of both Optimus and Starscream, for the council to take Screamers side over Prime is ridiculous. Like, takes me out if the story ridiculous.

I'd agree but this is not the full comic or the entire scene. It's just the first couple pages.

I do however can't not think that Starscream was one of the first decepticons to attempt an invasion on earth back in the -action series and participate in the all out assault on earth AND return to earth in the ongoing with the rest of the Decepticons. That can't be ignored.

Does the council know that, though? He brokered a fair few of those deals himself, where Windblade didn't, and I'm certain he didn't let slip that he had expansionist tactics in the past.

Even if they don't it feels it should come up. He is in charge of a planet that is populated by NAILs that knew his reputation of being one of megatrons top lieutenants during the war. We learned that from Skybyte all the way back in issue 5. Just feels a little odd that his past has never been brought up or brought up yet at least.

Hey remember NAILs? Remember how important they used to be? Tappet hasn't shown up in a comic for over 30 issues. After Metalhawk and Hippotanks deaths he-other than Zetca- was the only NAIL with a name or role.

Synopsis
ALL HAIL OPTIMUS part 3! OPTIMUS PRIME has declared the Earth to be his territory… but even he can’t go it alone. Now he reaches out across the galaxy to form a coalition—of old friends and older enemies.



Story

We continue the ride of All Hail Optimus, in the third chapter of this fairly long arc, as positions and setting start shifting around, after the immediate fall out - in last month's issue - of the annexation of unwilling Earth to the Council of Worlds. And that means Starscream gets to do some things too, and he does them with words.



What is particularly pleasing in the issue, is how John Barber uses the actions of Starscream - from whom we've come to expect manipulative behaviour - to comment upon those of Optimus himself, as he just sort of casually wanders over to other potential allies and audiences. Being all complex-y and stuff.



There is another fairly intense narrative strand running alongside Optimus' manipulations - one that we might expect from the main cover, and that sees once precarious collaborators Arcee and Galvatron ..er, airing some concerns with each other. Think of it as a very heated (heh) conversation, with some more excellent writing for the former.



The scene above is also the main source of action for the book, so enjoy it if that is your dish. For the more politics and sleight of hand and tongue inclined readers, this is a full course meal, with weaving, waving, twining and a bit of a kick to the side - and some intriguing seeding happening in between.

Art

Art duties are brought back to Livio Ramondelli, after a long break, and I have to admit I had some difficulties this time round. The linework is what we have come to expect, and I am aware some readers are not fans. We do get some interesting cinematic layouts though, and clarity in more dynamic sequences - never a bad thing.



Where I had some issues was in the colouring, which, while lightening the usually fairly heavy look of Ramondelli's pages, has somewhat reduced my enjoyment of the art overall. This is not the case across the board, though, as there are some scenes that still work really quite well even in the lighter hues - but something struck me as different from the usual.



While there is little of prominent display for the lettering of Tom B. Long, sometimes that is just the mark of skill you need as a reminder of the craft. The covers, on the other hand, do something flashier, with Andrew Griffith and Josh Burcham covering Galvatron vs Arcee, Burcham all alone playing around with Age of Extinction and Skylynx, Casey Coller and Joana Lafuente homaging 'The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living' for Art History month, and the thumbnailed Phase6 exclusive sees a collaboration between Griffith and Naoto Tsushima, with Josh Perez on colours, as a tribute to Drift.


Thoughts
Spoilerish ahead

If the visual side of things had me distancing myself, on first read, from appreciating the story as such, but going back to it there are some really good advancements from both a contextual and world-building perspective, and for the narrative at hand itself, too. The political intrigue of early RID is back once again, though a lot more is clearly at stake at this point in the game.



In fact, think less Game of Thrones and more House of Cards, in how the various parts move around on the table, with some of the best Starscream and Arcee around (you know what I mean) and, I reluctantly say this, given his character, even some of the best Optimus writing for a while. To me, he never held any appeal as a leader - now, this new layer of whatever is going on with him? Yes, I want to see how far he'll go.

I enjoyed this issue. I loved the story: I hated the art but the story was really good. Not really sure how to take Optimus being the 13th. I know that's how the aligned did it but that was a continuity where God is real and everyone knows it. That's not how IDW works especially since the thirteen in IDW are just leaders of tribes and not children of God. I guess maybe his spark was removed and put back in the ground? That sounds rediculous but we know Optimus is a forged point one percentor

Randomhero wrote:I enjoyed this issue. I loved the story: I hated the art but the story was really good. Not really sure how to take Optimus being the 13th. I know that's how the aligned did it but that was a continuity where God is real and everyone knows it. That's not how IDW works especially since the thirteen in IDW are just leaders of tribes and not children of God. I guess maybe his spark was removed and put back in the ground? That sounds rediculous but we know Optimus is a forged point one percentor

I think that is what they're suggesting, but not necessarily what will happen. The interpretations of the Primes, Knights, gods and what have you seem to differ across the series, mostly due to the fact that believers and non-believers are telling those stories at different moments.

So, on the one hand, the Mistress believes the 13 to be deities. On the other, OP himself does not - but he seems to be pulling a Starscream here, and has been for a while.

There are 2 things that I am looking at and I'm still not very sure about.

1) The Arisen. The Mistress claims it to be Optimus, but as the Solicitations from today are anything to go on, Sentinel is going to show up and potentially cast doubts on that. Also, as was already said, the 13 have been shown to be leaders, not mystical, and Prime knows they aren't mystical. And I don't see how Optimus could be one of the 13, so I very much doubt that he is. Watch, it will actually be Sentinel who is the arisen.

2) Prime's personality. He has really gone off in a different direction since Dark Cybertron. Yes, his original mission was just to get Alpha Trion back, but then the enigma showed up, leading him to want to learn more and then being influenced by it, and now he wants the planet to be part of Cybertron. And they are leading up to a big thing where Prowl's personality is poisoning Prime, and Prowl will make a return to the series. This is definitely a Prime that has some semblence of the former self, but now how some Prowl, it is kinda frightening how Prowl like he can be "No Cosmos, I want him to bow to ME". Yikes.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Earth is a colony, and in all actuality there is a second Fortress Maximus residing within the planet that is going to rise along with Sentinel

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:Watch, it will actually be Sentinel who is the arisen.

Now that is an interesting development you pointed out.

2) "No Cosmos, I want him to bow to ME". Yikes.

That line was chilling, and yes, a good indication of what he is becoming/has become. I liked your summary of his arc.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Earth is a colony, and in all actuality there is a second Fortress Maximus residing within the planet that is going to rise along with Sentinel

Yeah, Earth as a colony makes perfect sense. For a number of reasons.

Dr Va'al wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:Watch, it will actually be Sentinel who is the arisen.

Now that is an interesting development you pointed out.

2) "No Cosmos, I want him to bow to ME". Yikes.

That line was chilling, and yes, a good indication of what he is becoming/has become. I liked your summary of his arc.

I've been thinking the sentinel part since the TR comic cover was teased with him, especially since that was right around the whole "arisen Prime" part.

Thank you for the compliment. To me, that line is the quote of the story, an the quote of Prime's personality since Combiner Wars. And it is chilling and is very heavy, and makes me wonder what is to come, and with issue 56 of both ongoings now going into Titans return, it makes me wonder what the titan-master storyline will be prime, maybe even helping him recover parts of his own personality and removing parts of Prowl that invaded him

I don't think there's a second fortress Maximus. Just a Titan. Remember that Titans return will not have a pack in comic so this time around IDW won't be restricted to include certain toys in their stories. This will just be their version of Titans return. That's what I'm taking from it.

Everyone knows that I've been saying it forever now. If there's an ore than there's a Titan and if there's a Titan there's a ore.

Earth has a Titan, and ore 13 we know that. Golaram Prime had both a Titan and ore. Caminus, velocitron and the beast planet all have Titans and stated they have energon so I think we can imagine the very energon they've being using were Ores by shockwave. They just never took on unique side effects like the others which shockwave had no interest then.

If my theory is right than the planet Kup was stranded on, LV-117, and arduria and that planet from heart of darkness galaatron visited and battled nova prime on have or had Titans on them. they're hotspots may have never ignited or they died out. And there was nickels colony that we now know is gone and destroyed.

But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

They kinda did. Alpha Trion mentions that shockwave did not launch them randomly. He chose those planets specially. 13 ores on 13 planets 13 primes. It was the issue where alpha Trion tells Optimus about galavtrons past during ancient cybertron when they visited the moon. Sadly shockwave took all his secrets to the grave. 2 years ago the one guy who apparently knew everything died and I'm starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe shockwave may be returning somehow someday because apparently he has all the answers to all the questions that are getting asked in Transformers

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

They did. Alpha Trion mentions that shockwave did not launch them randomly. He chose those planets specially. 13 ores on 13 planets 13 primes. It was the issue where alpha Trion tells Optimus about galavtrons past during ancient syberyron when they visited the moon. Sadly shockwave took all his secrets to the grave. 2 years ago the one guy who apparently knew everything died and I'm starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe shockwave may be returning somehow someday because apparently he has all the answers to all the questions that are getting asked in Transformers

I just checked. He said the ores were planted on the resting places of the 13 primes, not colonies. And yes, Shockwave had lots of secrets that now many of us want and need to know.

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

They did. Alpha Trion mentions that shockwave did not launch them randomly. He chose those planets specially. 13 ores on 13 planets 13 primes. It was the issue where alpha Trion tells Optimus about galavtrons past during ancient syberyron when they visited the moon. Sadly shockwave took all his secrets to the grave. 2 years ago the one guy who apparently knew everything died and I'm starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe shockwave may be returning somehow someday because apparently he has all the answers to all the questions that are getting asked in Transformers

I just checked. He said the ores were planted on the resting places of the 13 primes, not colonies. And yes, Shockwave had lots of secrets that now many of us want and need to know.

Except we know that colonies were chosen because they the planets that the Prime's chose to go. Or the other way around. Technically cyclonus, nova dai atlas and Galvatron all existed during the era of the 13 and according to the annual for RID Metrotitans left way before their time so it's possible the 13 chose planets that Titans were already on. Confused? I sure as hell am as I write this. QUESTIONS QUESTIONS QUESTIONS! That should be the new subtitle after the removed RID from johns book!

I'm really starting to wonder if Shockwave is coming back. Technically he didn't die. Bumblebee did and we know that shockwave bumblebee and crystal city still exist in that singularity so maybe he'll be back.

But that is precisely why I like this book: world-building, slowly but steadily.
(And frustratingly, sometimes.)

It's building and yes completely frustrating but not in a bad annoying way. I want answers but I'm having a hell of a time!

Yep, I'm slightly confused too. John is making this increasingly difficult to keep a good grip on, which is good cause it makes peoples brains hurt figuring this scrap out.

I wouldn't rule out Shockwave and Bee coming back. Bee has kept up regular appearances thanks to Starscream talking to his ghost, and Wave is a big character who now has lots of information that many other characters never saw.

I'm also still pretty sure the titans and the primes were on different planets and the ores paired up with the primes and the titans were separate. The titans just each were loyal to and embodied something from the prime they were paired with.

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:Yep, I'm slightly confused too. John is making this increasingly difficult to keep a good grip on, which is good cause it makes peoples brains hurt figuring this scrap out.

I wouldn't rule out Shockwave and Bee coming back. Bee has kept up regular appearances thanks to Starscream talking to his ghost, and Wave is a big character who now has lots of information that many other characters never saw.

I'm also still pretty sure the titans and the primes were on different planets and the ores paired up with the primes and the titans were separate. The titans just each were loyal to and embodied something from the prime they were paired with.

I think it's the same. Why would a Titan not colonize the planet of the prime they were connected to? We know caminus worshipped Solus Prime. Windblade even says they all believe that they were all born with a part of her in them. Same with Eurakis. The beast formers there all worship Onyx Prime and the Titan there knew him.

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:Yep, I'm slightly confused too. John is making this increasingly difficult to keep a good grip on, which is good cause it makes peoples brains hurt figuring this scrap out.

I wouldn't rule out Shockwave and Bee coming back. Bee has kept up regular appearances thanks to Starscream talking to his ghost, and Wave is a big character who now has lots of information that many other characters never saw.

I'm also still pretty sure the titans and the primes were on different planets and the ores paired up with the primes and the titans were separate. The titans just each were loyal to and embodied something from the prime they were paired with.

I think it's the same. Why would a Titan not colonize the planet of the prime they were connected to? We know caminus worshipped Solus Prime. Windblade even says they all believe that they were all born with a part of her in them. Same with Eurakis. The beast formers there all worship Onyx Prime and the Titan there knew him.

But worship and live on the same planet are very different. there were also more than just those 13 titans as well, so the ones you had mentioned earlier may be other titans, not one of the colony ones. And each titan was basically a "student" of a prime, so that is why such titans are tied to a prime. The Prime actually did not leave with his titan to colonize, as it is implied that the titans left before the primes did.

Well just have to wait and see. I do however think mistress flame is wrong. I think Optimus might be Megatronus. We don't know anything about him other than he betrayed Solus. The fallen isn't defaulted evil anymore. The covenant revealed he was more tragic than anything. Maybe Optimus is "the Arisen"(so lame) but maybe it's a twist and he's the fallen

I agree the Mistress can be very wrong, but wow, Optimus the Fallen? Didn't think of that. But as you said, wait and see. Sometimes we have to wait an issue or 38 (Looking at you MTMTE message from the past).

It would be an interesting twist if Optimus was the Fallen. At least we know Megatron himself can't be one of them! (or do we)

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

They did. Alpha Trion mentions that shockwave did not launch them randomly. He chose those planets specially. 13 ores on 13 planets 13 primes. It was the issue where alpha Trion tells Optimus about galavtrons past during ancient syberyron when they visited the moon. Sadly shockwave took all his secrets to the grave. 2 years ago the one guy who apparently knew everything died and I'm starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe shockwave may be returning somehow someday because apparently he has all the answers to all the questions that are getting asked in Transformers

I just checked. He said the ores were planted on the resting places of the 13 primes, not colonies. And yes, Shockwave had lots of secrets that now many of us want and need to know.

Except we know that colonies were chosen because they the planets that the Prime's chose to go. Or the other way around. Technically cyclonus, nova dai atlas and Galvatron all existed during the era of the 13 and according to the annual for RID Metrotitans left way before their time so it's possible the 13 chose planets that Titans were already on. Confused? I sure as hell am as I write this. QUESTIONS QUESTIONS QUESTIONS! That should be the new subtitle after the removed RID from johns book!

Alpha Trion throws a huge wrench into much of the 13/13/13 stuff.

There are 13 Colony Titans, and Shockwave fired 13 Regenesis Ore Missiles, but A3 remained on Cybertron. We're not going to get a perfect pattern.

Additionally, Carcer, seemingly ID'd by Metroplex as a Colony Titan, is spaceborne - no planet to have a Regenisis Ore. Maaaaybe we'll get a reveal that Carcer isn't really a Colony Titan on account of its history w/ Tempo, or some other explanation, but the current data doesn't match the Primes lining up perfectly with the Ores or Titans.

Did Shockwave make a mistake? Did Alpha Trion take an interplanetary vacation when the ores were fired? Mysteries abound.

RevTibe wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

Randomhero wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:But at the same time, don't forget that it was said that the 13 ores were planted on the planets where the 13 Primes supposedly went after they left Cybertron (and the enigma). I don't recall them ever saying that the ores were planted where the colony worlds were, just the final resting places of the 13.

They did. Alpha Trion mentions that shockwave did not launch them randomly. He chose those planets specially. 13 ores on 13 planets 13 primes. It was the issue where alpha Trion tells Optimus about galavtrons past during ancient syberyron when they visited the moon. Sadly shockwave took all his secrets to the grave. 2 years ago the one guy who apparently knew everything died and I'm starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe shockwave may be returning somehow someday because apparently he has all the answers to all the questions that are getting asked in Transformers

I just checked. He said the ores were planted on the resting places of the 13 primes, not colonies. And yes, Shockwave had lots of secrets that now many of us want and need to know.

Except we know that colonies were chosen because they the planets that the Prime's chose to go. Or the other way around. Technically cyclonus, nova dai atlas and Galvatron all existed during the era of the 13 and according to the annual for RID Metrotitans left way before their time so it's possible the 13 chose planets that Titans were already on. Confused? I sure as hell am as I write this. QUESTIONS QUESTIONS QUESTIONS! That should be the new subtitle after the removed RID from johns book!

Alpha Trion throws a huge wrench into much of the 13/13/13 stuff.

There are 13 Colony Titans, and Shockwave fired 13 Regenesis Ore Missiles, but A3 remained on Cybertron. We're not going to get a perfect pattern.

Additionally, Carcer, seemingly ID'd by Metroplex as a Colony Titan, is spaceborne - no planet to have a Regenisis Ore. Maaaaybe we'll get a reveal that Carcer isn't really a Colony Titan on account of its history w/ Tempo, or some other explanation, but the current data doesn't match the Primes lining up perfectly with the Ores or Titans.

Did Shockwave make a mistake? Did Alpha Trion take an interplanetary vacation when the ores were fired? Mysteries abound.

Actually he did. Alpha Trion has left cybertron multiple times. He comes and goes as he pleases.

Not only does alpha Trion muck it up but we saw Nexus Prime get blown to $@&+ by Galvatron. So just by that technically only 10 Primes left Cyberton, maybe 9. Megatronus's betrayl may have been him killing Solus.