The Energon Pub

[Darkman20xx]

The following warranted being in its own post.

My problem with Bay is he has a habit of changing things that don't need to be changed in a franchise's history. Of course all movie adaptations have differences but he changes major things. I believe that stems from Bay never being a true fan in the first place. I remember when TF1 first came out and we would see scenes filming with the new cars and we would guess what car was what character? Like a red sports car would have to be Sideswipe or Rodimus. The Silver Corvette would have to be Bluestreak "or Silverstreak". That all stopped when we saw that Bay had no type of reasoning of who he made who? Could Hound not have been a military Jeep? Hound in AOE has Bulkhead's body and Kup's Personality.

In addition to what all Burn said, this is not the first time that characters with G1 names had looks and altmodes not based on those of their G1 namesakes.

Look at the Unicron Trilogy, for crying out loud. All three of those series had characters who looked and acted nothing like the characters who shared their names. Take a look at the following examples:

Harldy anything different from what the movies do.

Let's not begin to talk about how the Ruthless Megatron from G1 and Comics has been redueced to a lower level villain who since the first movie has taken a back seat to The Fallen, Sentinel Prime and Shockwave, and now Lockdown.

Shockwave?! That guy was a total nobody in the DOTM movie.

Megatron is nothing more than a Lackey when he has always been portrayed as one of the most dangerous beings in the entire universe.

Yeah, sure. The guy who built the Giant Purple Griffin is certainly a menace to us all.[/sarcasm]

Now the same thing is happening with the Turtles where they're huge when in no fiction I've seen have the Turtles be taller than April.

They're taller than her in the awesome current cartoon.

It is supposedly different from the movies because the main purpose of any other Transformers series was to move the toys. It would make sense to keep changing those up because how many Optimus Primes is someone going to buy unless he gets changed into something else like a fire truck?

It's funny how you take one of the most random non factored episodes in all of Tranformers history to back up your point on Megatron's ruthlessness. I guess you never saw him slaughther a whole crew of Autobots aboard a shuttle. Let's not even dwell into the comics version of him.

A "True" fan is someone who followed the franchise before they were paid to do so. Do you have to be a fan to make a faithful adaptation to movie? No...but it would be nice to have someone directing that would have said "your going to piss a lot of people off if you make Devastator a big ape."

And depending on when shown on screen the new Nick cartoon has most of the Turtles Shorter or the same size as April except for Donnie who seems to be the tallest turtle. Again your reaching because it's nothing like the size difference being shown in the trailers. This will have to be settled once the Movie is released obviously and we get to them on screen together more.

[Burn]

Dude, there's no such thing as a "true" fan.

You're either a fan of Transformers, or you're not. There's no levels of degree to it.

[Slashercon]

Dude, there's no such thing as a "true" fan.

You're either a fan of Transformers, or you're not. There's no levels of degree to it.

Sadly, very few people can grasp this. (This goes for other fandoms as well.)

[Slashercon]

Really hope we can get 6-9 Decepticons next movie. Too many (Rotf, DOTM) and too little (AOE) aren't very much in my taste.

[Darkman20xx]

Dude, there's no such thing as a "true" fan.

You're either a fan of Transformers, or you're not. There's no levels of degree to it.

Sadly, very few people can grasp this. (This goes for other fandoms as well.)

http://youtu.be/kdLO6z7dho0

Bay's own words stating that he in fact "was not a fan" until he signed on for the Movie. I'm more of a Basketball and Football fan but if I was getting a couple of Million for it I'm sure I could end up enjoying a nice Quidditch match.

Stop putting words in my mouth. We're talking about Bay...not the average Fandom member.

[Sabrblade]

It is supposedly different from the movies because the main purpose of any other Transformers series was to move the toys. It would make sense to keep changing those up because how many Optimus Primes is someone going to buy unless he gets changed into something else like a fire truck?

And the movie's aren't also vehicles for toy promotion? You can't tell me that the Dinobots and Galvatron weren't inserted into AOE to help sell their toys, cuz they certainly weren't inserted for any substantial storytelling purposes as far as this movie by itself is concerned.

It's funny how you take one of the most random non factored episodes in all of Tranformers history to back up your point on Megatron's ruthlessness.

Oh, I could easily pick out a number of other episodes in which his plans were just as asinine, but I figured I'd grant us all the mercy of not going through each one of those ludicrous plots of his.

I guess you never saw him slaughther a whole crew of Autobots aboard a shuttle.

Yes, by the power of Plot Convenience, Megatron was suddenly able to gun down a whole crew of the same Autobots that he could either never hit the broad side of their backsides before, or could never even wound so easily before. Every one of those Autobots were suddenly made into wimps with armor replaced with paper mache all for the sake of toy removal. That scene didn't make the Decepticons look good, it made the Autobots (especially Brawn, one of the most durable, physically strong characters) look pathetic since that's how the Decepticons should have been fighting all along for the past 65 episodes.

Let's not even dwell into the comics version of him.

Which comics? In Marvel he was a wasted character since that comic favored the likes of Shockwave, Ratbat, Scorponok, Thunderwing, and Bludgeon more than it did Megatron. In Dreamwave, he had potential, but that comic was cut short before it could really take off. In IDW, he's decent, but some people hate the idea of Megatron becoming an Autobot and/or refuse to acknowledge the IDW comics as a new kind of G1. But, I was admittedly only bringing up the cartoon since that version is the version most people think of in regards to anything G1-related, so kudos for thinking about the comics as well.

A "True" fan is someone who followed the franchise before they were paid to do so. Do you have to be a fan to make a faithful adaptation to movie? No...but it would be nice to have someone directing that would have said "your going to piss a lot of people off if you make Devastator a big ape."

While I can see the arguments for both sides regarding things like Devastator's hulkish design,there's no such thing as a "True Fan".

[chivesbot20]

Well Darkman20xx, I'm backing sabrblade on this one. I have a question, when optimus stabs Galvi through the chest, we all know he doesn't die( instead he says one of his four scripted lines) But then how is he going to die? Unless Grimlock eats him and burns him so he's no more. Bay always has optimus the villains face off, and unless its a complete goof, I don't think he'll die from that. Another thing. Galvatron also at the end of the movie vows to fight optimus again. Optimus is in space looking for his creators. Almost all of the KSI drones are dead including stinger, so how is he going to get more decepticons? Cybertron is gone, the hidden one on the moon are gone, remaining decepticons are hunted, human made turned into decepticons are almost all gone. I don't know of a different plot device that would get him more decepticons . Unless optimus flies into unicron in space. But Galvatron wouldn't get there. And the NEST human alliance is over so Galvi wont be hunted unless by the remaining autobots.

[chivesbot20]

Well Darkman20xx, I'm backing sabrblade on this one. I have a question, when optimus stabs Galvi through the chest, we all know he doesn't die( instead he says one of his four scripted lines) But then how is he going to die? Unless Grimlock eats him and burns him so he's no more. Bay always has optimus the villains face off, and unless its a complete goof, I don't think he'll die from that. Another thing. Galvatron also at the end of the movie vows to fight optimus again. Optimus is in space looking for his creators. Almost all of the KSI drones are dead including stinger, so how is he going to get more decepticons? Cybertron is gone, the hidden one on the moon are gone, remaining decepticons are hunted, human made turned into decepticons are almost all gone. I don't know of a different plot device that would get him more decepticons . Unless optimus flies into unicron in space. But Galvatron wouldn't get there. And the NEST human alliance is over so Galvi wont be hunted unless by the remaining autobots.

[Sabrblade]

I have a question, when optimus stabs Galvi through the chest, we all know he doesn't die( instead he says one of his four scripted lines) But then how is he going to die? Unless Grimlock eats him and burns him so he's no more. Bay always has optimus the villains face off, and unless its a complete goof, I don't think he'll die from that. Another thing. Galvatron also at the end of the movie vows to fight optimus again. Optimus is in space looking for his creators. Almost all of the KSI drones are dead including stinger, so how is he going to get more decepticons? Cybertron is gone, the hidden one on the moon are gone, remaining decepticons are hunted, human made turned into decepticons are almost all gone. I don't know of a different plot device that would get him more decepticons . Unless optimus flies into unicron in space. But Galvatron wouldn't get there. And the NEST human alliance is over so Galvi wont be hunted unless by the remaining autobots.

All this can be answered with "Simple. They'll just make up something new for the next movie, like they always do."

[No Death for Prowl]

For those stating these movies are "garbage" - AOE was the fourth entry in the series with the same director. If you didn't like the previous 3, I just have to ask: what you were expecting this time around?

If you didn't see AOE because you think "they're all garbage", then that means you're commenting about a movie you haven't even seen which seems pretty odd.

I guess the usual response is "But I am passionate about Transformers and will see these movies no matter what, but I hate what Bay has done to my beloved franchise."

Well, I'm willing to bet there are not many fans out there who have loved every update of the Transformers franchise. And isn't that what these live action movies are? Just another take on a franchise that constantly gives nods to its origins (G1) without feeling the need to repeat itself or survive based on 80s nostalgia? If the franchise did the latter, it would be nothing more than a footnote in toy history rather than the relevant force it is today.

I then have to ask these same fans: what would you like from these movies? G1 accuracy as to whether Sideswipe is red or silver, whether Hound is a jeep, etc. is not much of a goal and any minor aesthetic inaccuracies should not affect your opinion of the movie. For those looking for more from these movies - what would you like Bay or any director do with this material to turn these from "garbage" to acceptable, in your opinion?

[Darkman20xx]

For those stating these movies are "garbage" - AOE was the fourth entry in the series with the same director. If you didn't like the previous 3, I just have to ask: what you were expecting this time around?

If you didn't see AOE because you think "they're all garbage", then that means you're commenting about a movie you haven't even seen which seems pretty odd.

I guess the usual response is "But I am passionate about Transformers and will see these movies no matter what, but I hate what Bay has done to my beloved franchise."

Well, I'm willing to bet there are not many fans out there who have loved every update of the Transformers franchise. And isn't that what these live action movies are? Just another take on a franchise that constantly gives nods to its origins (G1) without feeling the need to repeat itself or survive based on 80s nostalgia? If the franchise did the latter, it would be nothing more than a footnote in toy history rather than the relevant force it is today.

I then have to ask these same fans: what would you like from these movies? G1 accuracy as to whether Sideswipe is red or silver, whether Hound is a jeep, etc. is not much of a goal and any minor aesthetic inaccuracies should not affect your opinion of the movie. For those looking for more from these movies - what would you like Bay or any director do with this material to turn these from "garbage" to acceptable, in your opinion?

First off the Transformers Prime TV series had a much more interesting story than AOE did. How does something like that happen? Story has gone downhill since the original movie. Now we have Transformers skinned Expendables movies where heavy action is used to mask the insanity. But that probably is the mark of the generation now isn't it? "We don't care about story...just get on the next shot of some girl's boobs bouncing while running thru 10 explosions. Same thing happened in Video Games where story isn't factored in as much when people judge it as a good game or not. There were games that prided themselves on having a Cinematic experience now our movies are not even 100% Cinematic experiences anymore. It seems that the industry is telling us that we've gotten dumber and incapable of following a story all the way thru until the end. For that reason it can have loose ends, lacking plots, and inconsistencies up that wazoo but "the movie was still because Optimus rodeo'd Grimlock" (for all the grammar and English critics I know rodeo'd is wrong)

So I ask all the the members who bash us for not liking this movie as much. Now that you've accepted AOE as acceptable to enter "great" status if the next installment is worse will you accept that as well? I for one want the franchise to progress forward. Not backwards.

[SlyTF1]

For those stating these movies are "garbage" - AOE was the fourth entry in the series with the same director. If you didn't like the previous 3, I just have to ask: what you were expecting this time around?

If you didn't see AOE because you think "they're all garbage", then that means you're commenting about a movie you haven't even seen which seems pretty odd.

I guess the usual response is "But I am passionate about Transformers and will see these movies no matter what, but I hate what Bay has done to my beloved franchise."

Well, I'm willing to bet there are not many fans out there who have loved every update of the Transformers franchise. And isn't that what these live action movies are? Just another take on a franchise that constantly gives nods to its origins (G1) without feeling the need to repeat itself or survive based on 80s nostalgia? If the franchise did the latter, it would be nothing more than a footnote in toy history rather than the relevant force it is today.

I then have to ask these same fans: what would you like from these movies? G1 accuracy as to whether Sideswipe is red or silver, whether Hound is a jeep, etc. is not much of a goal and any minor aesthetic inaccuracies should not affect your opinion of the movie. For those looking for more from these movies - what would you like Bay or any director do with this material to turn these from "garbage" to acceptable, in your opinion?

First off the Transformers Prime TV series had a much more interesting story than AOE did. How does something like that happen? Story has gone downhill since the original movie. Now we have Transformers skinned Expendables movies where heavy action is used to mask the insanity. But that probably is the mark of the generation now isn't it? "We don't care about story...just get on the next shot of some girl's boobs bouncing while running thru 10 explosions. Same thing happened in Video Games where story isn't factored in as much when people judge it as a good game or not. There were games that prided themselves on having a Cinematic experience now our movies are not even 100% Cinematic experiences anymore. It seems that the industry is telling us that we've gotten dumber and incapable of following a story all the way thru until the end. For that reason it can have loose ends, lacking plots, and inconsistencies up that wazoo but "the movie was still because Optimus rodeo'd Grimlock" (for all the grammar and English critics I know rodeo'd is wrong)

So I ask all the the members who bash us for not liking this movie as much. Now that you've accepted AOE as acceptable to enter "great" status if the next installment is worse will you accept that as well? I for one want the franchise to progress forward. Not backwards.

Nope.

[Burn]

Bay's own words stating that he in fact "was not a fan" until he signed on for the Movie.
...
Stop putting words in my mouth. We're talking about Bay...not the average Fandom member.

I'd just like to point out that it was YOU who brought up the term "true fan", no one else. So no one's putting any words into your mouth.

First off the Transformers Prime TV series had a much more interesting story than AOE did. How does something like that happen?

You really can't see the obvious?

DIFFERENT WRITERS.

This is what I've pointed out since the first movie come out. People can't keep solely blaming Bay. You say the quality of the movies has gone down, we've also changed writers. It's so obvious that the writing is the problem.

First movie - Orci/Kurtzman
Fourth movie - Kruger
Transformers Prime - Completely different writers.

So I ask all the the members who bash us for not liking this movie as much.

Oh don't pull the victim card. The "movie haters" (seeing as you dislike "Bay haters" terminology) have insulted those who supported the movie more than the other way around.

The number of times I've had to step in over the years and tell a "movie hater" to stop insulting the intelligence of those who like the movie has been ridiculous.

You don't like the movie? I'm okay with that. I just think you're blaming the wrong person.

[SEXFIGHTER]

Quick reply...the films have a duty to unite all the continuities and create something which all fans of all continuities can recognise. A live action film had never been attempted. Just as Batman the Movie 1989 attempted to pinch a load of popular themes from the comics and unite them under one film. The first TF film was a starting point and from there things should have gotten more recognisable and more consistant with what fans want and not what some hack thinks is cool. Yes these things have made money..but the money was there to be made regardless of who sat in the chair, and to hand it to Bay was just downright lazy.

[Burn]

Quick reply...

Quick reply...the films have a duty to unite all the continuities

No they don't.

the money was there to be made regardless of who sat in the chair, and to hand it to Bay was just downright lazy.

Why was it lazy?

[Rodimus Prime]

First off the Transformers Prime TV series had a much more interesting story than AOE did.

Nope.

Yeah, TFP was more interesting than AoE. By a long shot.

[chivesbot20]

Nodeathforprowl I applaud. Its an endless loop with this argument. On this forum id rather talk about something else than just blame this person or that person and who wrote what. how about this question,did anyone notice that in DOTM when one of the astronauts first enters the Ark he brushes off optimuses face. Meanwhile later he says he saw the ship flying on the final days of Cybertron?

[SlyTF1]

First off the Transformers Prime TV series had a much more interesting story than AOE did.

Nope.

Yeah, TFP was more interesting than AoE. By a long shot.

A show full of a bunch of invincible main characters running around looking for a bunch of artifacts episode, after episode, ripping, effortlessly through enemies that are supposed to be an actual threat isn't very interesting.

Nodeathforprowl I applaud. Its an endless loop with this argument. On this forum id rather talk about something else than just blame this person or that person and who wrote what. how about this question,did anyone notice that in DOTM when one of the astronauts first enters the Ark he brushes off optimuses face. Meanwhile later he says he saw the ship flying on the final days of Cybertron?

That wasn't Optimus. It didn't even look like him. The only similarity was the face plate.

[chivesbot20]

Well transformers prime to me has some pretty bad action... but besides that there always looking for stuff. and ya slyTF1 I thought the decepticons were supposed to be a threat. In AOE optimus is locked up in a jail and the dinobots get sucked up on dropped with every piece of metal in Hong Kong. So that's a difference.

[Darkman20xx]

@Burn

Nobody is pulling a victim card. However your view of who were worse, the AOE "Fanboys" or the "Bay Haters" is highly skewed being that your obviously for one side. The hate from AOE lovers started with the critics who were getting torn apart left and right as just being "Bay Haters". Might I add that Bay even created that term himself when he did an interview stating "Let them hate". (Yeah...I follow this guy as I said I do like most of his work)

Then after seeing the movie upon release a few people said maybe the critics were actually right. Hell broke loose and I even saw one person get told to "crawl in a hole and die". I for one have never discredited anyone's opinion. "They're like ---holes as everybody has one"

And a lot of the developers involved with the first movie are actually involved in TF Prime. I'd go so far as to say that if you kept Prime's story, and tied it into live action you wouldn't have to change a thing in order to have a better movie than AOE...including the music.


Funny thing is you keep saying it's not Bay's fault...it's the writers. Joss Whedon trashed the first Avengers script because he said it was garbage and wouldn't film it. If Bay had such a problem he couldn't have done that? Or is it more likely the latter which was I really don't care about the script anyway. This is the same dude that started filming parts of ROTF before scripts were even complete.

[chivesbot20]

If u got a problem DM burn but I wouldn't directly post something for the public to see that is aimed directly at someone. Just some good advice.

[chivesbot20]

http://i.stack.imgur.com/G0Izk.jpg SLYTF1 any similarities at all?

[Burn]

Nobody is pulling a victim card. However your view of who were worse, the AOE "Fanboys" or the "Bay Haters" is highly skewed being that your obviously for one side.

Actually no. I have only seen AOE once. By this point in time I'd seen the previous movies 2-3 times. I really have no desire to sit in the cinema to watch AOE again.

I speak from personal experience on this site, from before the first movie came out, all the way up until now. I've been a member of staff for the majority of the time the films have been out and there has been a lot of abuse thrown around amongst members.

Neither side has been innocent, that being said, those who dislike the movie have been more vocal about it, and unfortunately, have been flung more insults towards those who liked the movies (the general insult being you have limited intelligence for liking the movie).

Then after seeing the movie upon release a few people said maybe the critics were actually right. Hell broke loose and I even saw one person get told to "crawl in a hole and die". I for one have never discredited anyone's opinion. "They're like ---holes as everybody has one"

Personal opinion, I have no need for critics. Heck, I flicked over to the ABC (Australian version) last night for their movie review show, watched it for about a minute and changed the channel because I found the guy to be too pompous and over-analytical.

I'm simple, I go to movies to be entertained, I like turning my brain off for a few hours

As for people telling others to crawl into a hole and die, I really do encourage the "report this post" button. Staff can't be everywhere every time so that helps us out. Because we really do not condone that sort of stuff here.

And a lot of the developers involved with the first movie are actually involved in TF Prime. I'd go so far as to say that if you kept Prime's story, and tied it into live action you wouldn't have to change a thing in order to have a better movie than AOE...including the music.

Partially agree ... partially disagree. Orci/Kurtzman took a back seat as Executive Producers, so they had some influence but not a lot.

I honestly don't know how it would translate, TV shows tend to have an entire season to tell a story (so you're looking at around 7+ hours) whereas a movie can have anywhere been an hour and a half to three hours.

Funny thing is you keep saying it's not Bay's fault...it's the writers. Joss Whedon trashed the first Avengers script because he said it was garbage and wouldn't film it. If Bay had such a problem he couldn't have done that? Or is it more likely the latter which was I really don't care about the script anyway. This is the same dude that started filming parts of ROTF before scripts were even complete.

Big BIG difference between Whedon and Bay is that Whedon was a writer before he became a director. Bay isn't a writer.

[chivesbot20]

This argument seems unsolvable at this point. I'm a transformers fan because of the movies. And then i discovered the whole fandom. But honestly the argument is here and probably wont leave, but I come on this forum to talk with people who like me LIKE the movies and can discuss things that another TF fan would understand. Does anyone think grimlock would be big enough in robot mode to take on demolisher?

[Rodimus Prime]

A show full of a bunch of invincible main characters running around looking for a bunch of artifacts episode, after episode, ripping, effortlessly through enemies that are supposed to be an actual threat isn't very interesting.

Yet it's still more engaging than AoE was. I've seen AoE 3 times, I know everything a viewer needs to about the characters and the events. TFP, however, can be watched more than that and still be enjoyed.