The Energon Pub

[Burn]

Optimus is also more badass than he's ever been.

And I ask again, why should that matter at all?

So I can spend my time wishing I was as badass as him.

And why would that matter?

Because it's a part of the movie stays with me long after I watch it. Saw Planet of the Apes yesterday. Liked it well enough, but after it was over, there was nothing I took from it, at all. I didn't learn anything from it. I didn't take inspiration from any of the characters or scenarios presented in the movie. At least when I watch one of the TF movies, I have something I can hold onto, something I can look to for inspiration in my darkest hour. Something that ensures that the movie will always be memorable for me.

So you like the Transformer movies because you learn how to slaugher things.

Mental help. Seriously, seek it out.

[Sub-Prime]

I think for me there was nothing I took from Apes or TF movies. All of the things movies try to push to make us think deeply I have already seen or felt it in life. Life is learning process. I more enjoy movies as an entertainment outlet rather than a way of seeking some kind of knowledge. I think the folks who go for the latter is typically folks who will hate on the TF movies and movies like it.

[chivesbot20]

SLTTF1 and SUBPRime have been making good points. I know for sure that I would not have been as big as a fan if my friend never showed me the first movie. These movies are kind of the new series or new generation of transformers. If Spielberg didn't pull this franchise out of the back of the closet and renew it…… what would there be. Transformers Prime and animated wouldn't exist the franchise wouldn't be as big, hasbro would have to scramble for ideas for new transformers toy lines war for cybertron and fall of cybertron would not exist and i could think of more. But take the TMNT for example. It was going really good until the late 90's and early 2000's. Then a tv show returned and action figures came out. Continuing with that in 2007 an animated movie came out. people bought into it. 2012 another tv show appears on nickelodeon. Wormquake! one of its latest episodes got 3.9 million viewers. And like TF, ninja turtles has their own bay movie!

[Sabrblade]

Transformers Prime and animated wouldn't exist the franchise wouldn't be as big, hasbro would have to scramble for ideas for new transformers toy lines war for cybertron and fall of cybertron would not exist and i could think of more.

What makes you think this? Animated was being conceived as early as late 2005, and the Aligned Continuity that would spawn Prime was being put together in the Binder of Revelation as early as 2007. Right around this time is High Moon Studios approached Hasbro about doing a Transformers video game, which led to the creation of WFC and then FOC. So, movies or no movies, these projects were still going forward. Whether they would have been exactly the same as they are now without the movies' influence isn't easy to say, but it's very possible they all would have still existed in some way, shape, or form regardless of whether the movies had come about or not.

And like TF, ninja turtles has their own bay movie!

Liebesman movie, Bay is only the Executive Producer.

[chivesbot20]

Most of the plots that I've seen on prime, along with character construct comes from animated G1…. and the movies. Bumblebee is the same character in prime as in movies. And the first tf movie was conceived as early as 2003.And Bay still has a stay in a lot of TMNT like spielberg with Tf.

[Sabrblade]

Most of the plots that I've seen on prime, along with character construct comes from animated G1…. and the movies. Bumblebee is the same character in prime as in movies. And the first tf movie was conceived as early as 2003.And Bay still has a stay in a lot of TMNT like spielberg with Tf.

Just because the movies had their share of influence on Prime, Animated, etc. doesn't mean that those projects could not exist without the movies. Like I said, there's no telling how much different they would be without the influence of the films, but their existence was still independent of those films.

As for the Turtles movie, though Bay has some say in it, Liebesman is in the position Bay was for the TF movies. Otherwise, we ought be calling the TF movies "Spielberg movies" if we're gonna call the new Turtles movie a "Bay movie".

[chivesbot20]

Good point but I think my point is clear, there is a heavy influence on the new cartoons that come out. Even if drafts were conceived before the first TF film came out. I have said that the only reason those cartoons are around are because of the movies, but now based on fact, I am saying there is a bigger influence felt on the tv cartoons. And my point with TMNT is that bay produced the film and he directed transformers. I was just making a connection between the two franchises.

[SlyTF1]

Optimus is also more badass than he's ever been.

And I ask again, why should that matter at all?

So I can spend my time wishing I was as badass as him.

And why would that matter?

Because it's a part of the movie stays with me long after I watch it. Saw Planet of the Apes yesterday. Liked it well enough, but after it was over, there was nothing I took from it, at all. I didn't learn anything from it. I didn't take inspiration from any of the characters or scenarios presented in the movie. At least when I watch one of the TF movies, I have something I can hold onto, something I can look to for inspiration in my darkest hour. Something that ensures that the movie will always be memorable for me.

So you like the Transformer movies because you learn how to slaugher things.

Mental help. Seriously, seek it out.

I never slaughtered anything. But I did just spend over $200 on a sword, because it looks just like the one Optimus used in AOE.

[James_Lunddon]

Transformers Prime and animated wouldn't exist the franchise wouldn't be as big, hasbro would have to scramble for ideas for new transformers toy lines war for cybertron and fall of cybertron would not exist and i could think of more.

What makes you think this? Animated was being conceived as early as late 2005, and the Aligned Continuity that would spawn Prime was being put together in the Binder of Revelation as early as 2007. Right around this time is High Moon Studios approached Hasbro about doing a Transformers video game, which led to the creation of WFC and then FOC. So, movies or no movies, these projects were still going forward. Whether they would have been exactly the same as they are now without the movies' influence isn't easy to say, but it's very possible they all would have still existed in some way, shape, or form regardless of whether the movies had come about or not.

And like TF, ninja turtles has their own bay movie!

Liebesman movie, Bay is only the Executive Producer.

You think Bay will stay involved for T5?

[Sabrblade]

Transformers Prime and animated wouldn't exist the franchise wouldn't be as big, hasbro would have to scramble for ideas for new transformers toy lines war for cybertron and fall of cybertron would not exist and i could think of more.

What makes you think this? Animated was being conceived as early as late 2005, and the Aligned Continuity that would spawn Prime was being put together in the Binder of Revelation as early as 2007. Right around this time is High Moon Studios approached Hasbro about doing a Transformers video game, which led to the creation of WFC and then FOC. So, movies or no movies, these projects were still going forward. Whether they would have been exactly the same as they are now without the movies' influence isn't easy to say, but it's very possible they all would have still existed in some way, shape, or form regardless of whether the movies had come about or not.

And like TF, ninja turtles has their own bay movie!

Liebesman movie, Bay is only the Executive Producer.

You think Bay will stay involved for T5?

Dunno what that has to do with the post you quoted, but I do believe Bonaventura when he said they'll do whatever it takes to keep Bay onboard. Even if Bay wanted to pass the torch, the higher ups seem to not want to let him go.

[James_Lunddon]

Thanks Sabrblade. I'm amazed how much info everyone has on this site as I'm surfing through.

[ZeroWolf]

It's highly probable that bay will stick around for 5 & 6 before leaving for a reboot and new director...Who I hope is an unknown. After all we'll never get tye TF movies we dream of as they are different from each other.

[Burn]

Why would Paramount hand a massively successful franchise off to a unknown director?

[ZeroWolf]

That is true, and it was optimism on my part. Though that scenario is still a few years off. An unknown now could become big by that time.

[SEXFIGHTER]

First off I want to see these movies do well because I would love to see Transformers become an ongoing thing for decades sort of like the Star Trek and Bond movies. That's not going to happen if the movies go any further downhill then they've already gone.

Transformers - $709,709,780
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - $836,303,693
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - $1,123,794,079
Transformers: Age of Extinction- $754,044,938 (still in cinemas)

Yeah ... not really going downhill by those figures.

Or were you talking about quality? Yeah ... that's just your opinion and at the end of the day movie sequels tend to be decided on money, not the opinion of dedicated fans.

The Spice Girls sold more albums than your average underground, progressive rock bands. It does not make those albums of any artistic merit. Can we have a Transformers film with a bit of class and still make money? Of course. Opinions are entirely subjective, however, I have had enough of people defending the raping of the Transformers by a buffoon of a director. Nobody can SERIOUSLY defend these films?? They have good scenes, Great scenes sometimes, however the scripts are abhorrent...Why are so many people happy to have ANY Transformers film rather than a good one, or a great one?

It seems like you are angry with the wrong person. You say you hate the script yet Bay doesn't write them! But I am sure you already knew that but you're just jumping on the Bay bandwagon hate. The person you want to hate is Ehren Kruger.

Hang on a minute, if Bay is having to compromise any artistic integrity you believe he has..then WHY does he keep coming back 1, 2, 3 , 4 times TA-CHING. MONEY. MERCENARY. HACK!! This is no bandwagon...these films are tosh!!

[Sub-Prime]

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

[chivesbot20]

I have a feeling that their won't be a Primus. Its seems more likely that the quints will be involved as the Creators. But knowing bay ……… he'll make the Creators like the quints but they will be called the Creators. Anyway what did Galvatron use to make his own army with the KSI prototypes?

[Burn]

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

That's nothing unusual for a "Bay-hater", they spew their stuff and can never back themselves up when someone logically argues against them.

Same can be said for the "Pro-movie" group, some are just blindly loyal.

[Sub-Prime]

I don't care if Primus doesn't make a entrance in the films. Unicron is who I care for as he will be the biggest threat ever. Primus might be an entity that talks through the Matrix instead.

[Darkman20xx]

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

That's nothing unusual for a "Bay-hater", they spew their stuff and can never back themselves up when someone logically argues against them.

Same can be said for the "Pro-movie" group, some are just blindly loyal.

A statement like this is exactly why the argument continues to go on. If someone doesn't like these movies they are "Bay Haters". Every movie is going to have people who like or dislike it. Why should anyone's opinion be labeled as "Bay Hating".


My problem with Bay is he has a habit of changing things that don't need to be changed in a franchise's history. Of course all movie adaptations have differences but he changes major things. I believe that stems from Bay never being a true fan in the first place. I remember when TF1 first came out and we would see scenes filming with the new cars and we would guess what car was what character? Like a red sports car would have to be Sideswipe or Rodimus. The Silver Corvette would have to be Bluestreak "or Silverstreak". That all stopped when we saw that Bay had no type of reasoning of who he made who? Could Hound not have been a military Jeep? Hound in AOE has Bulkhead's body and Kup's Personality. Let's not begin to talk about how the Ruthless Megatron from G1 and Comics has been redueced to a lower level villain who since the first movie has taken a back seat to The Fallen, Sentinel Prime and Shockwave, and now Lockdown. Megatron is nothing more than a Lackey when he has always been portrayed as one of the most dangerous beings in the entire universe.

Now the same thing is happening with the Turtles where they're huge when in no fiction I've seen have the Turtles be taller than April. It was part of what made them so Badass that they were always so undersized against their opponents.

Bay does great with original material. He has too much of a God complex when it comes to taking something already established to the Silver Screen. I shutter to think what would have happened if he got hold of the Marvel movies.

[SEXFIGHTER]

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

What "writing"...come on guys seriously. There is nothing to evade...these are bad, BAD films and blindly defending crap will ensure crap continues. Bay's direction is over the top too. Over compensating for a laughable script.

[SEXFIGHTER]

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

That's nothing unusual for a "Bay-hater", they spew their stuff and can never back themselves up when someone logically argues against them.

Same can be said for the "Pro-movie" group, some are just blindly loyal.

Stop generalising..I hate these films because they're garbage. The majority out there agree...but sadly their kids are arguing to watch it..and the odd adult is endorsing bad film making. I'd place you in the latter group.

[Burn]

A statement like this is exactly why the argument continues to go on. If someone doesn't like these movies they are "Bay Haters". Every movie is going to have people who like or dislike it. Why should anyone's opinion be labeled as "Bay Hating".

Because unfortunately, there is a majority of people who dislike the movie because of Michael Bay's directing.

I know there are some people out there who dislike the movies simply because they feel they're bad movies, but unfortunately those people are drowned out by those who dislike the movies and proceed to blame Michael Bay for it rather than giving valid reasons.

My problem with Bay is he has a habit of changing things that don't need to be changed in a franchise's history. Of course all movie adaptations have differences but he changes major things.

But Beast Wars changed things vastly from G1. Beast Machines took a step further. Armada/Energon/Cybertron was far from a direct retelling of G1. The entire franchise, aside from being about change, is fraught with change from series to series. Why then, is that a bad thing for the movies?

I believe that stems from Bay never being a true fan in the first place.

What exactly is a "true" fan?

I remember when TF1 first came out and we would see scenes filming with the new cars and we would guess what car was what character? Like a red sports car would have to be Sideswipe or Rodimus. The Silver Corvette would have to be Bluestreak "or Silverstreak". That all stopped when we saw that Bay had no type of reasoning of who he made who?

Again, you're blaming Bay. But can you prove for certain that these decisions were solely his?

Perhaps they were the writers?

Or Don Murphy the Executive Producer?

Or even someone in Hasbro?

Could Hound not have been a military Jeep? Hound in AOE has Bulkhead's body and Kup's Personality. Let's not begin to talk about how the Ruthless Megatron from G1 and Comics has been redueced to a lower level villain who since the first movie has taken a back seat to The Fallen, Sentinel Prime and Shockwave, and now Lockdown. Megatron is nothing more than a Lackey when he has always been portrayed as one of the most dangerous beings in the entire universe.

This isn't G1

Generation 1 only exists in comics, and even then it's barely the G1 some of us grew up with.

Now the same thing is happening with the Turtles where they're huge when in no fiction I've seen have the Turtles be taller than April. It was part of what made them so Badass that they were always so undersized against their opponents.

Oh don't blame Bay for the change in Turtles. He's just the exectuive producer. He's not the writer, and he's not the Director, his input would be VERY limited.

Bay does great with original material. He has too much of a God complex when it comes to taking something already established to the Silver Screen. I shutter to think what would have happened if he got hold of the Marvel movies.

Again, you continue to blame Bay. Bay didn't write the scripts, he just took them and brought them off the paper onto the big screen. You can dislike the movies, just stop blaming Bay solely for them because there were others involved in the creative process as well.

I hate these films because they're garbage.

Then answer me this.

Why are you in these forums? What are you contributing here? All you do is go on about how much you hate the movies. What does it achieve?

The majority out there agree...but sadly their kids are arguing to watch it..and the odd adult is endorsing bad film making. I'd place you in the latter group.

Feel free to back this up with statistics and facts.

[Sabrblade]

That is true, and it was optimism on my part. Though that scenario is still a few years off. An unknown now could become big by that time.

But if said unknown becomes big, then by that point, would the unknown technically no longer be unknown and instead be "known"?

I have a feeling that their won't be a Primus. Its seems more likely that the quints will be involved as the Creators. But knowing bay ……… he'll make the Creators like the quints but they will be called the Creators. Anyway what did Galvatron use to make his own army with the KSI prototypes?

I don't care if Primus doesn't make a entrance in the films. Unicron is who I care for as he will be the biggest threat ever. Primus might be an entity that talks through the Matrix instead.

Well, in some of the Movieverse comics, it was the AllSpark that created Primus, "the first Cybertronian", rather than the other way around.

I like how you evaded my point about the writing you hate in the movies.

That's nothing unusual for a "Bay-hater", they spew their stuff and can never back themselves up when someone logically argues against them.

Same can be said for the "Pro-movie" group, some are just blindly loyal.

Stop generalising..I hate these films because they're garbage.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Calling these movies "garbage" is generalizing.

[Sabrblade]

The following warranted being in its own post.

My problem with Bay is he has a habit of changing things that don't need to be changed in a franchise's history. Of course all movie adaptations have differences but he changes major things. I believe that stems from Bay never being a true fan in the first place. I remember when TF1 first came out and we would see scenes filming with the new cars and we would guess what car was what character? Like a red sports car would have to be Sideswipe or Rodimus. The Silver Corvette would have to be Bluestreak "or Silverstreak". That all stopped when we saw that Bay had no type of reasoning of who he made who? Could Hound not have been a military Jeep? Hound in AOE has Bulkhead's body and Kup's Personality.

In addition to what all Burn said, this is not the first time that characters with G1 names had looks and altmodes not based on those of their G1 namesakes.

Look at the Unicron Trilogy, for crying out loud. All three of those series had characters who looked and acted nothing like the characters who shared their names. Take a look at the following examples:

Blurr


Jetfire




Side Swipe


Smokescreen


Hoist


Megatron


Cyclonus



Thrust


Wheeljack


Ironhide


Prowl


Bulkhead (okay, not a G1 name, but this design certainly doesn't resemble what later became the staple Bulkhead look):


Cliffjumper


Mirage


Six Shot


Scattorshot



Brakedown


Snarl


Scourge


Menasor


Harldy anything different from what the movies do.

Let's not begin to talk about how the Ruthless Megatron from G1 and Comics has been redueced to a lower level villain who since the first movie has taken a back seat to The Fallen, Sentinel Prime and Shockwave, and now Lockdown.

Shockwave?! That guy was a total nobody in the DOTM movie.

Megatron is nothing more than a Lackey when he has always been portrayed as one of the most dangerous beings in the entire universe.

Yeah, sure. The guy who built the Giant Purple Griffin is certainly a menace to us all.[/sarcasm]

Now the same thing is happening with the Turtles where they're huge when in no fiction I've seen have the Turtles be taller than April.

They're taller than her in the awesome current cartoon.