The Energon Pub

[SlyTF1]

A show full of a bunch of invincible main characters running around looking for a bunch of artifacts episode, after episode, ripping, effortlessly through enemies that are supposed to be an actual threat isn't very interesting.

Yet it's still more engaging than AoE was. I've seen AoE 3 times, I know everything a viewer needs to about the characters and the events. TFP, however, can be watched more than that and still be enjoyed.

You can watch every episode of TFP once and know everything. I've seen AOE 4 full times, and want to go back and watch it again. I have no desire to watch any TFP episodes again. The most exciting thing that happened in the entire series happened in the very first episode. After that, all of the Autbots were completely invincible. Even when Bulkhead was "injured," all he did was sit around until he got better.

[chivesbot20]

Im sorry but Prime could put me to sleep. And its a tv show so it comes out each week so thats why theres still more to learn about characters and events.

[SEXFIGHTER]

Quick reply...

Quick reply...the films have a duty to unite all the continuities

No they don't.

the money was there to be made regardless of who sat in the chair, and to hand it to Bay was just downright lazy.

Why was it lazy?

So films based on popular, iconic characters have zero duty to relate the film to the original material?

It was lazy as Bay is known as a guy who gets the job done, can blow stuff up and deliver the film on time and on budget...however he has no style or vision and so is over reliant on head swimming camera tricks he hopes will impress his peers and win over the kids.

[SKYWARPED_128]

NOTE: NOT directed at anyone in particular....

The thing I hate about this whole debate is that it's hard for some of us to have an unbiased discussion about the pro's and cons of a TF movie, without being labeled either a "hater" or a "fanboy."

Why does one have to choose a side? Why can't I like the designs and action scenes but at the same time hate the humor and overacting? Why must I either embrace everything about a Bay movie, or reject it all?

Seriously, there IS something called the middle ground. I'm standing right on it.

[Rodimus Prime]

NOTE: NOT directed at anyone in particular....

The thing I hate about this whole debate is that it's hard for some of us to have an unbiased discussion about the pro's and cons of a TF movie, without being labeled either a "hater" or a "fanboy."

Why does one have to choose a side? Why can't I like the designs and action scenes but at the same time hate the humor and overacting? Why must I either embrace everything about a Bay movie, or reject it all?

Seriously, there IS something called the middle ground. I'm standing right on it.

QFT.

I feel the exact same way. I don't hate Bay by any means, but there is room for improvement. I do realize he's not the final approval on the finished product. I like the action and the visuals of Bayverse, but the substance hasn't reached its potential, far from it. These films are a huge production, a lot of people have a hand in them. I understand that creative decisions fall on the writers, the director, and the producers. So they're all to be praised and/or blamed. But the question is, how much of it does each of them deserve?

You can watch every episode of TFP once and know everything. I've seen AOE 4 full times, and want to go back and watch it again. I have no desire to watch any TFP episodes again. The most exciting thing that happened in the entire series happened in the very first episode. After that, all of the Autobots were completely invincible. Even when Bulkhead was "injured," all he did was sit around until he got better.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I will always have more fun watching TFP than ANY of the live action films, because it's just more engaging. But that's my preference, and I know you love the movies, so I understand why you would pick them over a TV series. And that's a reason this may not even be a fair comparison. They're different types of continuities.

[SlyTF1]

You can watch every episode of TFP once and know everything. I've seen AOE 4 full times, and want to go back and watch it again. I have no desire to watch any TFP episodes again. The most exciting thing that happened in the entire series happened in the very first episode. After that, all of the Autobots were completely invincible. Even when Bulkhead was "injured," all he did was sit around until he got better.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I will always have more fun watching TFP than ANY of the live action films, because it's just more engaging. But that's my preference, and I know you love the movies, so I understand why you would pick them over a TV series. And that's a reason this may not even be a fair comparison. They're different types of continuities.

If they could make a series where none of the main Autobots are safe from death, and Optimus is as badass as he is in the movies, I'd be all for that. But now, as it stands, the movies are probably my favorite continuity. With Animated in a close second place. Because, even with that show, the Autobots weren't invincible. Especially in season 3. Prime didn't feel immersive at all, to me. At least, when it came to the Autobots.

[Burn]

So films based on popular, iconic characters have zero duty to relate the film to the original material?

And what source material would that be? G1? BW? BM? RiD? A/E/C?

It was lazy as Bay is known as a guy who gets the job done, can blow stuff up and deliver the film on time and on budget...

Sounds to me like an intelligent business decision. Would you happen to know what other directors were in the running for the job?

[Sabrblade]

At this point, I can't even tell what the debate is about, anymore. Looks more like a game of "Refute whatever the next post says, while Burn tries to keep the peace."

[Rodimus Prime]

So films based on popular, iconic characters have zero duty to relate the film to the original material?

And what source material would that be? G1? BW? BM? RiD? A/E/C?

I'm not picking his side or anything, but if we're talking "source material" it's gotta be the Marvel Comics. So, essentially, it's G1. Now, Bayverse is in no way "required" to adhere to G1 or any other continuity, but honestly, and this is my opinion, it would have been nice to see a live version of those stories. I prefer them to what we did get.

If they could make a series where none of the main Autobots are safe from death, and Optimus is as badass as he is in the movies, I'd be all for that. But now, as it stands, the movies are probably my favorite continuity. With Animated in a close second place. Because, even with that show, the Autobots weren't invincible. Especially in season 3. Prime didn't feel immersive at all, to me. At least, when it came to the Autobots.

Optimus kicks a lot of ass in TFP. I do admit, the Autobots seem to get away with a lot. But, it seemed to be a determination of the writers to keep the core cast together and not change/substitute anyone. Maybe add 1 or 2 at least temporarily. Same thing happened in Beast Wars. I do agree about Animated, that was a good show with characters being a bit different than usual, especially the Autobots. It actually reminded me of G1, even without the blatant references.

[Burn]

"Burn tries to keep the peace" ... so not what people expect from me on this site.

[Darkman20xx]

I just want to clear up that I am in no way a hater of every Bay TF movie. I faithfully saw each one at the midnight release and most likely will do the same for the rest. That being said I am not so far biased that I would say that any of them were outstanding movies. I feel that the Transformers franchise is due that outstanding movie at this point. I want what The Dark Knight did for Batman. I would like good casting paired with good acting, great directing paired with a good script, great musical score, and good on screen action and special effects. While not there, TF1 had me in hopes we were heading in that direction but sadly we're not. I know all these things would cost money but the movies are a big enough cash cow to make it worthwhile.

I know I sound like I'm asking a lot but am I really asking something that is not possible?

[Sub-Prime]

I just want to clear up that I am in no way a hater of every Bay TF movie. I faithfully saw each one at the midnight release and most likely will do the same for the rest. That being said I am not so far biased that I would say that any of them were outstanding movies. I feel that the Transformers franchise is due that outstanding movie at this point. I want what The Dark Knight did for Batman. I would like good casting paired with good acting, great directing paired with a good script, great musical score, and good on screen action and special effects. While not there, TF1 had me in hopes we were heading in that direction but sadly we're not. I know all these things would cost money but the movies are a big enough cash cow to make it worthwhile.

I know I sound like I'm asking a lot but am I really asking something that is not possible?

Did you think Batman was great in the The Dark Knight? I so bad wanted Batman to die in that movie because he was insufferable and depressing through the whole 3 movies. I never felt like rooting for the good guy with Nolans crappy Batman films. I felt the opposite way with Captain America. He was someone you wanted to root for. Also the action in the DK series was the weakest action period! I can't believe folks thought those movies had cool action.

[Sub-Prime]

One other thing on top of what Burn said about the TFP series. The series had better writers and episodes to flesh out more story over 3 seasons. You can't compare that to a 2 hour and 40 minute movie. It's absurd. Almost any cartoon will be way better than the film counterpart because of this very issue. Transformers movies aren't perfect from a technical standpoint but I still love them no matter what. There are a lot of films that have high RT scores that have boring characters and a story to match.

[Rodimus Prime]

Did you think Batman was great in the The Dark Knight? I so bad wanted Batman to die in that movie because he was insufferable and depressing through the whole 3 movies. I never felt like rooting for the good guy with Nolans crappy Batman films. I felt the opposite way with Captain America. He was someone you wanted to root for. Also the action in the DK series was the weakest action period! I can't believe folks thought those movies had cool action.

IMO, the DK series was the reverse of the 1st TF trilogy. The 1st and 3rd movies sucked, whereas The Dark Knight kicked ass. Granted, it was due to The Joker, not Batman (I think Christian Bale is the most overrated actor in Hollywood) and Optimus was the opposite of Batman.

[ZeroWolf]

I just want to clear up that I am in no way a hater of every Bay TF movie. I faithfully saw each one at the midnight release and most likely will do the same for the rest. That being said I am not so far biased that I would say that any of them were outstanding movies. I feel that the Transformers franchise is due that outstanding movie at this point. I want what The Dark Knight did for Batman. I would like good casting paired with good acting, great directing paired with a good script, great musical score, and good on screen action and special effects. While not there, TF1 had me in hopes we were heading in that direction but sadly we're not. I know all these things would cost money but the movies are a big enough cash cow to make it worthwhile.

I know I sound like I'm asking a lot but am I really asking something that is not possible?

You're not asking a lot but what your asking is subject to a lot of opinion. Like what is good casting etc. Plus I'm one of those that were never bothered about the dark knight or bales batman. (I don't like dark realism...give me the unrealistic any day of the week)

[chivesbot20]

Sub-Prime I agree with your opinion. And there is no remote way transformers and Batman can connect to each other. Find a better example.

[Darkman20xx]

The point I'm trying to make is that in every movie series or franchise there is a point when you want to be able to say 100% that they nailed it. Hit every point and made the best movie of the series and the best possible movie with the material. Not always but usually that movie gets noticed. In Nolan's Batman it was the Dark Knight. LOTR it was the Two Towers (IMO). In Captain America it was the Winter Soldier (Best movie so far this year IMO) In Star Wars I would argue Return of The Jedi but you can make a point for any of the first 3 movies. We're at 4 TF movies and I'm still getting "it was just okay" feelings. Instead of moving forward I think it moved backwards. That's not good.

[Darkman20xx]

One other thing on top of what Burn said about the TFP series. The series had better writers and episodes to flesh out more story over 3 seasons. You can't compare that to a 2 hour and 40 minute movie. It's absurd. Almost any cartoon will be way better than the film counterpart because of this very issue. Transformers movies aren't perfect from a technical standpoint but I still love them no matter what. There are a lot of films that have high RT scores that have boring characters and a story to match.

They already knew that the TF movies were going to at least have one sequel. Maybe that's part of the problem that they should have created a script that would have spanned that far into the future instead of having a different script written for each film.

[ZeroWolf]

The point I'm trying to make is that in every movie series or franchise there is a point when you want to be able to say 100% that they nailed it. Hit every point and made the best movie of the series and the best possible movie with the material. Not always but usually that movie gets noticed. In Nolan's Batman it was the Dark Knight. LOTR it was the Two Towers (IMO). In Captain America it was the Winter Soldier (Best movie so far this year IMO) In Star Wars I would argue Return of The Jedi but you can make a point for any of the first 3 movies. We're at 4 TF movies and I'm still getting "it was just okay" feelings. Instead of moving forward I think it moved backwards. That's not good.

But that's just your opinion. There is people here who will and have argued against that. Your trying to say it as fact when it simply isn't.

[Darkman20xx]

The point I'm trying to make is that in every movie series or franchise there is a point when you want to be able to say 100% that they nailed it. Hit every point and made the best movie of the series and the best possible movie with the material. Not always but usually that movie gets noticed. In Nolan's Batman it was the Dark Knight. LOTR it was the Two Towers (IMO). In Captain America it was the Winter Soldier (Best movie so far this year IMO) In Star Wars I would argue Return of The Jedi but you can make a point for any of the first 3 movies. We're at 4 TF movies and I'm still getting "it was just okay" feelings. Instead of moving forward I think it moved backwards. That's not good.

But that's just your opinion. There is people here who will and have argued against that. Your trying to say it as fact when it simply isn't.

The drop in domestic numbers shows that more people agree than ever before. I wonder how many people who went to go see TF4 will say to themselves this is where I get off. No need to see 5. A lot if my opinion. However it is also fact that the TF movie franchise has a cult following but no real critical acclaim. Harsh as critics can be they do recognize when an outstanding job has been done on a movie. The thing is it's ok to say a TF movie was just ok. If your happy with the franchise now...good. How can it be a bsd thing if it gets better?

[chivesbot20]

For some fans its all ready a success. Like me, i don't think that its backtracking. I think its moving forward just fine. Ya there needs to be a bit of a tweak here and there, but i accept the movies the way they are. And personally, critics don't persuade me.

[Burn]

The drop in domestic numbers shows that more people agree than ever before.

There's a whole rest of the world out there that makes up much more of the movie going public ...

[Darkman20xx]

For some fans its all ready a success. Like me, i don't think that its backtracking. I think its moving forward just fine. Ya there needs to be a bit of a tweak here and there, but i accept the movies the way they are. And personally, critics don't persuade me.

All that is great. So if a few ask for improvement and it does improve isn't that a good thing for you too?

[SlyTF1]

For some fans its all ready a success. Like me, i don't think that its backtracking. I think its moving forward just fine. Ya there needs to be a bit of a tweak here and there, but i accept the movies the way they are. And personally, critics don't persuade me.

All that is great. So if a few ask for improvement and it does improve isn't that a good thing for you too?

I'm having a hard time thinking of what they could improve at this point. Better explaining things is about the only improvement I can think of. But even then, I hate when movies tell you every thing. Half the fun of watching a movie is piecing things together my damn self. Maybe talk about the main Autobot's back stories a bit. That's about it.

[chivesbot20]

Just mor main deceptions in the next one, autobots back stories even with just a throw away line, see more dinobots and Galvi. Not tough improvements