The Energon Pub

That's strange.

One of the wings on my Takara Thundercracker broke off, but my CHMS seekers have been rock solid.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

The current lowest price I can find for the Takara one is $300 and the Hasbro one is $350. Is the trailer really worth $200-$250? Not to me.

zodconvoy wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

The current lowest price I can find for the Takara one is $300 and the Hasbro one is $350. Is the trailer really worth $200-$250? Not to me.

BBTS has the Hasbro Shared exclusive YOTH Platinum Edition MP Optimus Prime. The price is $119 plus shipping fees. BBTS doesn't charge tax,so this covers the shipping fees.

Toys R Us.com also has YOTH MP Optimus. The price is $129.99. TRU charges tax but offers free shipping on this item.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

The current lowest price I can find for the Takara one is $300 and the Hasbro one is $350. Is the trailer really worth $200-$250? Not to me.

BBTS has the Hasbro Shared exclusive YOTH Platinum Edition MP Optimus Prime. The price is $119 plus shipping fees. BBTS doesn't charge tax,so this covers the shipping fees.

Toys R Us.com also has YOTH MP Optimus. The price is $129.99. TRU charges tax but offers free shipping on this item.

YOTH also looks like crap. I've considered getting it just to use as a G2 Prime but since I just got G2 Sideswipe today I'm hardly in a rush for G2 MPs.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Unfortunately these days with the popularity of collecting TFs and the scalping going on, KOs that pop up once the stock of the original product are nowhere to be found except on the secondary market for double retail end up listing for absurd prices. It's the same with the KO seekers and KO Classics Prime molds.

Well, as far as the Seekers go, as those are the only KO's I've ever (somewhat hypocritically, I'll admit -- although the six main ones are all official toys!) included in my Classics collection, I'll have to concede that point. Even when they were on, "Oh my God, Hasbro noticed us! Quick, get rid of all of this ****!" sale, they weren't inexpensive.

But they do still qualify for another definition of cheap...








Ah well, served me right for that one time slip-up in my usual ardent anti-KO stance!

Hehe, I just got those 3 off of ebay recently. No trouble with mine thankfully, but all I've done is transform them into bot mode and now they will never be transformed again most likely. I've also got 3 of the generic purple seekers CHMS did as well as their crazy hot pink seeker. That said, if Hasbro or Takara had done these variants, I'd have bought theirs instead and I do have nearly every official version of the seeker molds that exist (Henkei, Generations, Classics, Botcon, TFCC etc.). The only KO of an official product in an official deco I've ever bought was a KO Henkei Wildrider and that was only because I couldn't track down an official one for less than $500. If I ever find one for a reasonable price ($200 or less) I'll probably buy it and toss the KO.

As for this MP Prime KO, I've got the official Takara one so I won't be going in for this KO at all.

YOTH Prime looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I was on the fence about it before finally buying figuring $120 was a lot cheaper than $300 and I could always ditch the trailer.

I'm really glad I pulled the trigger, he looks great in person.

TheGrognard wrote:YOTH Prime looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I was on the fence about it before finally buying figuring $120 was a lot cheaper than $300 and I could always ditch the trailer.

I'm really glad I pulled the trigger, he looks great in person.

I feel the same about my YOTH Prime - he looks really stunning in person.

That's not to say I would use him as my Prime instead of a regular Hasbro or Takara MP-10. But, he's a great supplement to my collection and I feel the bashing is unwarranted.

megatronus wrote:

TheGrognard wrote:YOTH Prime looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I was on the fence about it before finally buying figuring $120 was a lot cheaper than $300 and I could always ditch the trailer.

I'm really glad I pulled the trigger, he looks great in person.

I feel the same about my YOTH Prime - he looks really stunning in person.

That's not to say I would use him as my Prime instead of a regular Hasbro or Takara MP-10. But, he's a great supplement to my collection and I feel the bashing is unwarranted.

I state that I ordered the KO that this thread is all about and got "That's almost what the real thing cost at TRU when it was out!" to which I reply that I didn't find it when it was out so rather than spend triple now I ordered this and I get back "But the YOTH on is out now!" to which I reply I do not want the YOTH, maybe as a G2 Prime later but I want what I ordered. I do not like the gold. I do not like the black. I do not like the dark colors. The trailer is a waste of clear plastic that I would probably throw away with the box. Now, again, I am not interested in the YOTH Optimus at this time and don't feel like hearing how I should settle for that I don't want.

If this seems like a very cold reaction, it's only because I didn't post my original response which was all rage and cursing and caplocks. When I get it, I will post pics comparing it to both my MP-10B Nemesis and my friend Froy's TRU MP-10 Optimus from last year and maybe a video review if no one beats me to it.

zodconvoy wrote:

megatronus wrote:

TheGrognard wrote:YOTH Prime looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I was on the fence about it before finally buying figuring $120 was a lot cheaper than $300 and I could always ditch the trailer.

I'm really glad I pulled the trigger, he looks great in person.

I feel the same about my YOTH Prime - he looks really stunning in person.

That's not to say I would use him as my Prime instead of a regular Hasbro or Takara MP-10. But, he's a great supplement to my collection and I feel the bashing is unwarranted.

I state that I ordered the KO that this thread is all about and got "That's almost what the real thing cost at TRU when it was out!" to which I reply that I didn't find it when it was out so rather than spend triple now I ordered this and I get back "But the YOTH on is out now!" to which I reply I do not want the YOTH, maybe as a G2 Prime later but I want what I ordered. I do not like the gold. I do not like the black. I do not like the dark colors. The trailer is a waste of clear plastic that I would probably throw away with the box. Now, again, I am not interested in the YOTH Optimus at this time and don't feel like hearing how I should settle for that I don't want.

I'm not saying you should settle for YOTH (as I even said, I wouldn't use it as my main prime), I'm just saying I like it. Chill out. The tantrum isn't necessary.

zodconvoy wrote:If this seems like a very cold reaction, it's only because I didn't post my original response which was all rage and cursing and caplocks. When I get it, I will post pics comparing it to both my MP-10B Nemesis and my friend Froy's TRU MP-10 Optimus from last year and maybe a video review if no one beats me to it.

Uhhhh, welcome to the boards? Hope you have a lovely stay...

megatronus wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:

megatronus wrote:

TheGrognard wrote:YOTH Prime looks a lot better in person than it does in photos. I was on the fence about it before finally buying figuring $120 was a lot cheaper than $300 and I could always ditch the trailer.

I'm really glad I pulled the trigger, he looks great in person.

I feel the same about my YOTH Prime - he looks really stunning in person.

That's not to say I would use him as my Prime instead of a regular Hasbro or Takara MP-10. But, he's a great supplement to my collection and I feel the bashing is unwarranted.

I state that I ordered the KO that this thread is all about and got "That's almost what the real thing cost at TRU when it was out!" to which I reply that I didn't find it when it was out so rather than spend triple now I ordered this and I get back "But the YOTH on is out now!" to which I reply I do not want the YOTH, maybe as a G2 Prime later but I want what I ordered. I do not like the gold. I do not like the black. I do not like the dark colors. The trailer is a waste of clear plastic that I would probably throw away with the box. Now, again, I am not interested in the YOTH Optimus at this time and don't feel like hearing how I should settle for that I don't want.

I'm not saying you should settle for YOTH (as I even said, I wouldn't use it as my main prime), I'm just saying I like it. Chill out. The tantrum isn't necessary.

zodconvoy wrote:If this seems like a very cold reaction, it's only because I didn't post my original response which was all rage and cursing and caplocks. When I get it, I will post pics comparing it to both my MP-10B Nemesis and my friend Froy's TRU MP-10 Optimus from last year and maybe a video review if no one beats me to it.

Uhhhh, welcome to the boards? Hope you have a lovely stay...

I'm just not having a good day and I try very hard not to take it out on the internet. Woke up to my whole town having a power outage so I couldn't go to work, couldn't charge my phone, couldn't microwave a burrito, couldn't anything. Bad day all around.

And the sarcasm. Nice touch

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

This is the the Worse Transformers KO ripp off toy price I have ever witnessed. What makes this a even worse deal. Is it has no trailer,no roller & no mini Megatron gun accessory.

Had Hasbro sold MP-10 with no trailer & no roller. The USA TRU price would have been $70-$80. Similar to what Hasbro's MP Rodimus sold for.

This KO MP-10 should cost at it highest $60,not $109. due to it coming with half the stuff the Hasbro toy came with.

Who even knows if this KO MP-10 has some diecast metal parts or not. What quality of KO toy plastic. Possible sloppy applied factory painted details.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

This is the the Worse Transformers KO ripp off toy price I have ever witnessed. What makes this a even worse deal. Is it has no trailer,no roller & no mini Megatron gun accessory.

Had Hasbro sold MP-10 with no trailer & no roller. The USA TRU price would have been $70-$80. Similar to what Hasbro's MP Rodimus sold for.

This KO MP-10 should cost at it highest $60,not $109. due to it coming with half the stuff the Hasbro toy came with.

Who even knows if this KO MP-10 has some diecast metal parts or not. What quality of KO toy plastic. Possible sloppy applied factory painted details.

The Classics Starscream sold for like $8-$10 when it first came out in 2007. How much did CHMS charge for them again? $30-$40? Saying Hasbro would've sold it cheaper is like saying they would've also given it a Powermaster since that's exactly what they did with Rodimus. It's an assumption based on nothing. And it doesn't matter since it now goes for nearly triple it's original price. And I don't even want the trailer so it's not worth triple the price to get one with it. And your last paragraph? That's exactly what I will let everyone see for themselves with my KO when I get it.

And a Megatron pistol? Seriously? I have like 3 of them already. Hell, looking at my shelves I realize MP's Starscream, Soundwave AND Nemesis Prime are all holding one. At this point if I get anymore I'm just throwing them out with the Cyber Planet Keys and Energon chips.

Going to be interesting to see your review on this, it would be a better review of course if you had an original to compare it to so we can actually see what they improved, because the chest looks worse than on the real one.

And I knew this was going to be overpriced, what is it with KOs and costing more than the actual product?

Dead Metal wrote:Going to be interesting to see your review on this, it would be a better review of course if you had an original to compare it to so we can actually see what they improved, because the chest looks worse than on the real one.

I have MP-10B Nemesis Prime and I'm going have my friend's TRU Optimus. Trust me, I'll be giving plenty of comparisons.

zodconvoy wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

This is the the Worse Transformers KO ripp off toy price I have ever witnessed. What makes this a even worse deal. Is it has no trailer,no roller & no mini Megatron gun accessory.

Had Hasbro sold MP-10 with no trailer & no roller. The USA TRU price would have been $70-$80. Similar to what Hasbro's MP Rodimus sold for.

This KO MP-10 should cost at it highest $60,not $109. due to it coming with half the stuff the Hasbro toy came with.

Who even knows if this KO MP-10 has some diecast metal parts or not. What quality of KO toy plastic. Possible sloppy applied factory painted details.

The Classics Starscream sold for like $8-$10 when it first came out in 2007. How much did CHMS charge for them again? $30-$40? Saying Hasbro would've sold it cheaper is like saying they would've also given it a Powermaster since that's exactly what they did with Rodimus. It's an assumption based on nothing. And it doesn't matter since it now goes for nearly triple it's original price. And I don't even want the trailer so it's not worth triple the price to get one with it. And your last paragraph? That's exactly what I will let everyone see for themselves with my KO when I get it.

And a Megatron pistol? Seriously? I have like 3 of them already. Hell, looking at my shelves I realize MP's Starscream, Soundwave AND Nemesis Prime are all holding one. At this point if I get anymore I'm just throwing them out with the Cyber Planet Keys and Energon chips.

Quoting 3rd party prices to justify paying insanely over priced KO prices is absurd.

You had the option of stalking out some ebay auctions. trying to find a used Hasbro MP-10 toy with no box & no trailer. I'm positive you would have found one in a few weeks or months for under $75

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:$109.99

$9.99

Box, bot, gun, ax, Matrix, instruction booklet, filecard. Everything but the trailer and Roller.

It is early, and I'm not quite awake perhaps. But did I read that correctly? Because that sounds like about what the cost of the domestic version of this toy was. And that came with the trailer and Roller. Call me crazy, but I thought part of the point of knock-offs was that they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to official products?

This is the the Worse Transformers KO ripp off toy price I have ever witnessed. What makes this a even worse deal. Is it has no trailer,no roller & no mini Megatron gun accessory.

Had Hasbro sold MP-10 with no trailer & no roller. The USA TRU price would have been $70-$80. Similar to what Hasbro's MP Rodimus sold for.

This KO MP-10 should cost at it highest $60,not $109. due to it coming with half the stuff the Hasbro toy came with.

Who even knows if this KO MP-10 has some diecast metal parts or not. What quality of KO toy plastic. Possible sloppy applied factory painted details.

The Classics Starscream sold for like $8-$10 when it first came out in 2007. How much did CHMS charge for them again? $30-$40? Saying Hasbro would've sold it cheaper is like saying they would've also given it a Powermaster since that's exactly what they did with Rodimus. It's an assumption based on nothing. And it doesn't matter since it now goes for nearly triple it's original price. And I don't even want the trailer so it's not worth triple the price to get one with it. And your last paragraph? That's exactly what I will let everyone see for themselves with my KO when I get it.

And a Megatron pistol? Seriously? I have like 3 of them already. Hell, looking at my shelves I realize MP's Starscream, Soundwave AND Nemesis Prime are all holding one. At this point if I get anymore I'm just throwing them out with the Cyber Planet Keys and Energon chips.

Quoting 3rd party prices to justify paying insanely over priced KO prices is absurd.

You had the option of stalking out some ebay auctions. trying to find a used Hasbro MP-10 toy with no box & no trailer. I'm positive you would have found one in a few weeks or months for under $75

Considering what I've heard about the quality of the KO MPs so far as well as what they've been stating about all the 'improvements' they've made to the MP-10 mold, one might consider this to be a bit closer to a 3rd party figure than a typical cheaply manufactured KO.

xyl360 wrote:Considering what I've heard about the quality of the KO MPs so far as well as what they've been stating about all the 'improvements' they've made to the MP-10 mold, one might consider this to be a bit closer to a 3rd party figure than a typical cheaply manufactured KO.

I'm sorry, but no. Making a few minor changes does not change the fact that this is a knock-off of a pre-existing mold. It is in no way not a knock-off.

If they'd made some remolded pieces and released those as replacement parts for the official figure, then that'd be a decent third party accessory kit. But to do an entire pre-existing figure with a few tweaks is still a knock-off.

If you're the sort of person who buys knock-offs, well, I'm kind of tired of arguing the evils of them to people who I shall never convince otherwise. But don't try to call it something it isn't, in an attempt to make it sound less bad.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Considering what I've heard about the quality of the KO MPs so far as well as what they've been stating about all the 'improvements' they've made to the MP-10 mold, one might consider this to be a bit closer to a 3rd party figure than a typical cheaply manufactured KO.

I'm sorry, but no. Making a few minor changes does not change the fact that this is a knock-off of a pre-existing mold. It is in no way not a knock-off.

If they'd made some remolded pieces and released those as replacement parts for the official figure, then that'd be a decent third party accessory kit. But to do an entire pre-existing figure with a few tweaks is still a knock-off.

If you're the sort of person who buys knock-offs, well, I'm kind of tired of arguing the evils of them to people who I shall never convince otherwise. But don't try to call it something it isn't, in an attempt to make it sound less bad.

Oh, I know, I wasn't referring to those changes as justification for its existence in any sort of legal fashion to state that it's not a KO, it totally is and I agree. I just think that those factors might account for the pricing, my reasoning being that the engineering/work that's gone into it is a bit closer to the 3rd party side of things than a standard/cheap KO.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Quoting 3rd party prices to justify paying insanely over priced KO prices is absurd.

CHMS Seekers are knock offs pure and simple. Overpriced ones. Not 3rd Party items, knock offs. Deal with it.

Yotsuyasan wrote:Making a few minor changes does not change the fact that this is a knock-off of a pre-existing mold. It is in no way not a knock-off.

So iGears MP-01 is a knock off even though they made the entire thing several inches smaller and their MP Seekers are knock offs even though they redid the entire leg design and made the Coneheads? So I guess those should all cost less then the $60 it cost me to get MP Starscream from Walmart back in 2007. Cuz that makes sense.

I found YOTH Prime at a TRU today along with YOTH Starscream, MP Acidstorm, and Platinum Ultra Magnus and I left them all there. That gold really ruins Prime for me. Almost picked up Acidstorm, though.

EDIT: Talking to my friend, I came up with the idea of repainting all of the gold with a boltgun metal for G2. I think that would make all the difference.

zodconvoy wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:Making a few minor changes does not change the fact that this is a knock-off of a pre-existing mold. It is in no way not a knock-off.

So iGears MP-01 is a knock off even though they made the entire thing several inches smaller and their MP Seekers are knock offs even though they redid the entire leg design and made the Coneheads?

It's a shade of grey, but a fairly light one. I personally would consider all those examples knock offs, if only because you could argue that the vast majority of the engineering was stolen.

zodconvoy wrote:So I guess those should all cost less then the $60 it cost me to get MP Starscream from Walmart back in 2007. Cuz that makes sense.

I agree with you. It doesn't make sense. I'm not getting the argument that KOs should necessarily be cheaper than the originals. That only holds if the originals and KOs are widely available concurrently.

zodconvoy wrote:I found YOTH Prime at a TRU today along with YOTH Starscream, MP Acidstorm, and Platinum Ultra Magnus and I left them all there. That gold really ruins Prime for me. Almost picked up Acidstorm, though.

That's the thing - I don't consider YOTH Prime to be Prime, at least not G1 Prime. I love the overall look, and think he's beautifully done (those deep colors are just magnificent), but he's certainly not a Prime in my book. And that gets to the heart of your desire for the KO, so.

Definitely looking forward to your comparison pics. Should be really interesting.

megatronus wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:So iGears MP-01 is a knock off even though they made the entire thing several inches smaller and their MP Seekers are knock offs even though they redid the entire leg design and made the Coneheads?

It's a shade of grey, but a fairly light one. I personally would consider all those examples knock offs, if only because you could argue that the vast majority of the engineering was stolen.

Yes, those are knock-offs. I wouldn't even call those examples grey. I could maybe see arguments for something like the cab section of Maketoys Hypernovae being in the grey, but even that is too obviously based on a pre-existing mold for me to be comfortable with it. (I was frankly quite disappointed in Maketoys on that one.)

Guess what came today! Now to get my friend to come over with his Takara MP-10 for comparison. Should I just do a flood of photos or try to make my first video review?

zodconvoy wrote:Guess what came today! Now to get my friend to come over with his Takara MP-10 for comparison. Should I just do a flood of photos or try to make my first video review?

Whichever is fastest

zodconvoy wrote:Guess what came today! Now to get my friend to come over with his Takara MP-10 for comparison. Should I just do a flood of photos or try to make my first video review?

Make both, that way we can have detailed pics to gaze at, and can hear the plastic quality.
That last bit kinda sounds strange, but you guys know what I mean!

There will be a few surprises too.