The Energon Pub

alternator77 wrote:its funny that weve got posters who bitch and moan about ko's yet have no pictures up of their collections

I've got pictures up. Definitely need to add more though.

Burn wrote:

alternator77 wrote:its funny that weve got posters who bitch and moan about ko's yet have no pictures up of their collections

I've got pictures up. Definitely need to add more though.

As do I, and I have no idea what difference that makes anyway.

Geekee1 wrote:

Burn wrote:

alternator77 wrote:its funny that weve got posters who bitch and moan about ko's yet have no pictures up of their collections

I've got pictures up. Definitely need to add more though.

As do I, and I have no idea what difference that makes anyway.

that wasnt a reference to everyone here but a small few my apologies.

Just because KOToys is closing down, doesn't mean CHMS, or the act of making these, will end.

As long as there's an audience, there will be product. It's as simple as that. Whether you like them or hate them, you're pretty much going to have to deal with bootlegs and knockoffs to some degree, whether you own one or just know of their existence.

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm not labeling, nor am I pointing fingers.

Heck, I've owned some, still do, and mo longer care anymore one way or the other. I think this issue gets too hot and out of hand and I think this thread's only going to get worse. More trouble's brewing and it's not worth getting caught up in it over some fake TFs, folks.

With that, I bid this thread adieu.

Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Court Jester wrote:@ Bowspearer: Immature, you say? Please enlighten me.

Simple, the entire argument was supporting giving scammers large supplies of G1 counterfeits (let's be honest, the G1 stuff they were making and the Dino Cassettes were in house by them, went way beyond a standard knockoff), all so you could get some convention exclusive because childishly, you want it so it's your god given right, regardless of how many people might get caught in the cross-fire.

This isn't even some rare archeological artifact, some top secret device stolen from a military facility, or food and drink (in the case of being starving and destitute); this is a child's plaything that you are putting in the same category the above.

Applying that degree of unethical selfishness to a child's plaything is why your whole argument is childish.

And yes, they were putting large quantities on the market when you look at street value. Take a look at the Dino Cassettes. Yes there was supposedly only a production run of 1,000 sets, but as each set in the hands of a scammer can go for $2,000; a mere 50 sets has a street value of $100,000.

That's the problem here with not just KOs but full blown counterfeits, they can, have and will sting the fandom to the tune of thousands of dollars, if not millions (which is entirely conceivable).

alternator77 wrote:its funny that weve got posters who bitch and moan about ko's yet have no pictures up of their collections

Not sure if you mean me. I have pics of my collection (albeit a little out of date and something I should sort out soon) up in several places. Just can't remember if I've done it here yet.

However so what if someone doesn't have pics of their collection up. Not everyone likes to show off their collection for various reasons. For some it's about security. For others it's about it reaching a certain point before they're happy to show it off.

Case in point; my girlfriend. She collects Palisades Muppets figures and has an amazing collection in terms of rare exclusives, AFA graded stuff and the majority of regular releases. Yet for her, she doesn't let me go into specifics with people and nor will she post pics up anywhere yet because she's not happy with it (I think she wants the collection almost completed before then).

Just because someone hasn't shown off their collection, doesn't mean they don't value it.

Autobot032 wrote:Just because KOToys is closing down, doesn't mean CHMS, or the act of making these, will end.

Actually in the case of some Counterfeits, it does. KOToys, may not have been making every outright G1 counterfeit out there, but they certainly were more than just the manufacturer looking at things like the Dino Cassettes.

On top of that, they were one of the worst players in that regard for going to the level of a full blown counterfeit.

Where as some G1 KOers out there at least make original packaging so everyone can win; the people at KOToys not only condones, but defended, ripping off the packaging to the point where scammers could scalp unsuspecting collectors or even experienced ones who simply got caught out.

On top of that, perhaps it'll see a shift in the thinking of some KO companies, where they realise that ripping off the packaging not only makes an enemy out of HasTak, but also out of some of the fans who might have considered picking up something as a place-filler until HasTak got around to a re-issue - resulting in an effort to produce packaging which is clearly different to the originals.

Either way, this is a good thing. People still have other sources where it's merely an issue of a reseller, but the KO "industry" (and I use that terms as loosely as with something like car rebirthing) has been shown it isn't invincible and that pushing things to far will bite you in the backside.

Of course, 3rd party companies, though a similar matter, are far more like the Trasformer line than KOs but maybe HasTak will start to look at how you license with smaller companies with low production runs and come up with a win-win solution there too.

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

LiKwid wrote:Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

Except that this is a topic about someone illegally making copies of toys of said giant transforming robots from space, and being shut down because of it. With a topic like that you automatically have issues of scamming and supply for scamming being thrown into the mix.

Also so what if some of us use our vocabularies to use words which are accurate but which some people might not be familiar with. All that means is someone grabbing an online dictionary in the worst case and learning a word they might not have known. Last I checked, learning something new (which let's face it, is something which can happen to us every single day) wasn't a bad thing.

Regardless of whether you want to hear it or not, both view points are valid, and I fully endorse anyone trying to discuss/defend their side of the KO spectrum. Aslong as we keep the personal insults at a minimum, then it's fine. It's healthy discussion and it's good to just get it out. If it's bottled up, then people will just start fights somewhere else.

Blurrz wrote:Regardless of whether you want to hear it or not, both view points are valid, and I fully endorse anyone trying to discuss/defend their side of the KO spectrum. Aslong as we keep the personal insults at a minimum, then it's fine. It's healthy discussion and it's good to just get it out. If it's bottled up, then people will just start fights somewhere else.

There's certainly a middle ground here. The problem has been that some people here have been talking like scam artists, and I'll explain why.

Most fans who want the genuine article don't have a problem with people wanting something "good enough", while they still get the genuine article they want.

The problem with the G1 KOs though, including KOToys as they also manufactured some of them through the likes of GenZhao though was that it wasn't enough for them to simply knock off the figure and make it obvious it was a knock off with the packaging at the least; they knocked off the packaging itself.

If someone is only interested in filling gaps and not supplying scammers, then why supply virtually identical packaging in the case of rare G1 figures.

If someone genuinely wants something "good enough" rather than the genuine article, then the packaging shouldn't be an issue.

In fact the only people who would stand to benefit from that are scammers wanting to pass something "good enough" as the genuine article.

Take a look at the street value on the Dino Cassettes- $20 to buy and then in the hands of a skillful scammer, $2,000 on resale.

If the packaging was blatantly different, would scammers be able to do that as easily? Yet at the same time, wouldn't those who wanted something "good enough" still get that option? The fact of the matter is that the only group who stood to lose out by packaging differences were scammers looking for easy money and so defending that status quo is defending scammers ripping off the fandom no matter how unintentional it might be..

This is what the "I want my toy" crowd can't seem to get their heads around. If they want a cheap knock-off then more power to them, but I shouldn't have to pay for it by being screwed-over by some scam artist potentially while searching for the genuine article.

The fact is that KOToys ignored that fact, and managed to annoy HasTak and a section of the fan community alike. Had they simply looked after the fans they [b]claimed[b] were their client base, then there wouldn't have been a problem.

However judging by their responses to concerned fans; they were clearly more interested in supplying scammers with product and to a lesser extent, the "good enough" crowd and it came back to bite them in the backside.

The "good enough" crowd needs to stop being childish, and stop blaming those who have a genuine issue with being stung by fakes and apportion blame to KOToys here for how they handled things or rather didn't handle them when it came to the way they were facilitating scammers.

Addendum: I realise that I'm "preaching to the choir" in your case Blurrz as the old saying goes, but this really did need to be said about the argument of those supporting KOToys.

Bowspearer wrote:Simple, the entire argument was supporting giving scammers large supplies of G1 counterfeits (let's be honest, the G1 stuff they were making and the Dino Cassettes were in house by them, went way beyond a standard knockoff), all so you could get some convention exclusive because childishly, you want it so it's your god given right, regardless of how many people might get caught in the cross-fire.

This isn't even some rare archeological artifact, some top secret device stolen from a military facility, or food and drink (in the case of being starving and destitute); this is a child's plaything that[edited for zaniness] you are putting in the same category the above.

Applying that degree of unethical selfishness to a child's plaything is why your whole argument is childish.

And yes, they were putting large quantities on the market when you look at street value. Take a look at the Dino Cassettes. Yes there was supposedly only a production run of 1,000 sets, but as each set in the hands of a scammer can go for $2,000; a mere 50 sets has a street value of $100,000.

That's the problem here with not just KOs but full blown counterfeits, they can, have and will sting the fandom to the tune of thousands of dollars, if not millions (which is entirely conceivable).

I'm attempting to take this as seriously as you're expressing in written form. Lets break it down...

Point 1: My initial claim was not one of morals, ethics, hell, it wasn't even directed at you. Yet I put my statements out there, if not only to be read, but put up for judgement - call it an unspoken or expressed "throwback" to (IMHO) better days of collecting. Perhaps my claim was that I love toys, not business - now if that were expressed as immature, I could accept that judgement and do whatever I want with it (letting it roll off my shoulders comes to mind instantaneously).

Clarification: This is a thread about the closing of KOToys; it was my farewell to them under the topic - perhaps a plea from interested parties for a little understanding in the matter.

Point 2: Your judgement of my stance is truly inspiring. The tangents are so unrelated to the post, it's like a blind man shouting at a blank wall for horrible service at a deli in Kathmandu, when all he really wants is someone to take him back to his nursery home.

Quote: "Applying that degree of unethical selfishness to a child's plaything is why your whole argument is childish."

Request for clarification: I'm immature for your assumption that I harbor a belief that I have a "God-given right" to own Botcon toys? WTF? I don't even mind the belittling of my toys, because they really aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

For the sake of concise posting... Ask me about me; don't state something that has no grounds for fact or reason. Consider re-reading my post; you'll find that your response to my post is rooted in others posts, and grounded in the offensive/defensive bias that has polarized two unnecessary positions in a frivolous "mature" debate.

Court Jester wrote:Point 1: My initial claim was not one of morals, ethics, hell, it wasn't even directed at you. Yet I put my statements out there, if not only to be read, but put up for judgement - call it an unspoken or expressed "throwback" to (IMHO) better days of collecting. Perhaps my claim was that I love toys, not business - now if that were expressed as immature, I could accept that judgement and do whatever I want with it (letting it roll off my shoulders comes to mind instantaneously).

Clarification: This is a thread about the closing of KOToys; it was my farewell to them under the topic - perhaps a plea from interested parties for a little understanding in the matter.

Let's look at what was actually said:

Court Jester wrote:I find it amusing that several people believe that this will herald the total eradication of knock offs of Hasbro products world wide; making it easier to not run into a bad deal at conventions, online auction sites, or e.tailers - so your investment remains valid...

Except that the major concern people have is not "losing out on investments, but being screwed over by fakes which are replicated right down to the packaging. You're either deliberately missing that key point or it went over your head.

I’ll go into why wanting “understanding” for them is utterly ludicrous in addressing your next point, and get to what you clearly mean by “investment” when dealing with the last part of this post.

You then say:

Court Jester wrote:But, I remember when the majority of us just didn't care about the business side. At one time, the majority of us just cared about the toys, and not spreading rumor, profiteer hoarding (read: scalping), or slinging mud at each other. Fandoms, it seems, change.

I'm can say with absolute certainty that everyone has always had a problem with being ripped off and that that side of things has never changed. But we’ll get into the way you conveniently ignore that point while dealing with the second point your raise.

Court Jester wrote:Point 2: Your judgement of my stance is truly inspiring. The tangents are so unrelated to the post, it's like a blind man shouting at a blank wall for horrible service at a deli in Kathmandu, when all he really wants is someone to take him back to his nursery home.

Quote: "Applying that degree of unethical selfishness to a child's plaything is why your whole argument is childish."

Request for clarification: I'm immature for your assumption that I harbor a belief that I have a "God-given right" to own Botcon toys? WTF? I don't even mind the belittling of my toys, because they really aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

For the sake of concise posting... Ask me about me; don't state something that has no grounds for fact or reason. Consider re-reading my post; you'll find that your response to my post is rooted in others posts, and grounded in the offensive/defensive bias that has polarized two unnecessary positions in a frivolous "mature" debate.

On the contrary, the person here who's blind to what they're saying is you. My response to you was entirely grounded in your defending and excusing the dodgy ethics of KOToys. Also, I have re-read your post and you only prove my point:

To begin with you say:

Court Jester wrote:However, when it comes to 3rd party products, realize that these same creators come from the same perspective as the good people (IMHO) at KOToys; providing things they would've made for themselves (via mass production and assembly lines available to them) to the fans willing to spend their money on the product.

I am not Hasbro, not their target audience, am not concerned with the "official" stamp of approval, and am not a stock holder. I'm merely a dork that still collects toys that I think are fantastic. I owe Hasbro nothing that exact moment I plunk down that paper currency.

Except that your point here fails on so many levels. To begin with, noone with even half a brain would say that knock-offs done to the point where even packaged they can be mistaken as the real thing is a good thing, except for scammers themselves.

Secondly, you miss the point that despite their intentions, their actions told a different story. If they were simply interested in servicing fans, then the packaging wouldn't have needed to have been replicated to the nth degree.

Yet when fans approached them about this, they were fobbed off and then banned. If they were really about being in it for the fans then they would have made those changes- even a "KOToys" logo on the box would have done the job- just like CHMS does with their Henkei KOs.

The fact that they took this stance proves that despite their claims, they were also keen on supplying the scammer market, as they are the only ones who benefited from the issues with packaging.

So to try it on with the argument that supplying scammers with a steady stream of complete counterfeits to rip off fans is somehow helping them with their collection, is at best, a complete oxymoron driven by a total lapse in reason, or outright dodgy spin. I’ll leave you to decide which of the two errors it was.

The reality is that when they took that stance with fans over packaging with G1 toy, they lost all right to understanding in any shape or form.

Then we get to your Botcon clarification query, which is clearly seen in your conclusion:

Court Jester wrote:I know several of you won't care when I say I've had a great time with the KOToys community, and will continue to support their services -in whatever form they take on- going forward.

To everyone else, enjoy your Botcon exclu$ives, I know eventually I will too.
There will be several out there who want to nitpick this post, which is their right... please excuse my nonchalance.

Here you make this entirely about Botcon toys- like that’s the only thing that KO Toys were selling. Not only does this fail to even remotely defend KOToys on their complete rip-off G1 toys (right down to the packaging), but int the case of the CHMS stuff, there’s a dirty big logo in the top right corner of the card which reads “CHMS”. How does that stuff even remotely affect someone looking for the real deal out there? This backs up what the point I made about your making this about a sense of entitlement over Botcon toys, which you put in the context of your opening paragraph as being about “protecting an investment”.

In short, what I said was right on the money, as much as you might not like that fact. Whether what was said was due to either a deficiency in logic when writing it, or a deficiency in ethics, I'll leave for you to decide.

God that's a painful wall of text...let's just boil everything down shall we?

*This won't stop KOs from being made or sold. If anything it'll just make one more place they can be gotten from.

*People are never going to agree whether KOs are a good thing or not. We have to accept that blah blah blah

*Yes replicating a toy right down to the packaging was not the wisest move as it leads to people trying to pass off the fake as the original...

*...however if you're after an exclusive item that's that expensive, and you haven't researched beforehand...

*eBay and Paypal still have item dispute policies in place to deal with people selling KOs as the real thing. There's an actual option in both places for such a claim.

*The store is closing down. Anything you want from their stock for customizing or just the hell of it you better grab now, unless it's available on the other two KO-carrying websites.

Did that sum up everything pretty good?

Kung Fu Man wrote:God that's a painful wall of text...let's just boil everything down shall we?

*This won't stop KOs from being made or sold. If anything it'll just make one more place they can be gotten from.

*People are never going to agree whether KOs are a good thing or not. We have to accept that blah blah blah

*Yes replicating a toy right down to the packaging was not the wisest move as it leads to people trying to pass off the fake as the original...

*...however if you're after an exclusive item that's that expensive, and you haven't researched beforehand...

*eBay and Paypal still have item dispute policies in place to deal with people selling KOs as the real thing. There's an actual option in both places for such a claim.

*The store is closing down. Anything you want from their stock for customizing or just the hell of it you better grab now, unless it's available on the other two KO-carrying websites.

Did that sum up everything pretty good?

Pretty good. You forgot all the bitching, moaning and whining though. I haven't seen this much butthurt on a thread since the Great Seeker Debate of 2007.

I guess my big thing here is that no matter if you think they were doing the fans a service, they were recreating and copying someone else's property. Hasbro/Takara have every right to say no. When you were in school, did you want the kid next to you copying your paper or test and getting the same credit that you got?

Hm. Can't say I'm surprised, and I don't care too much. I was mildly interested in the WST combiners, but I'm pretty sure they're available elswhere anyway. I'm not really cool with exact duplicates of toys not only because it's morally wrong, but also because there's a huge potential for people to get ripped off by being tricked into thinking it's the genuine article. Off-size, weird-colored & whatnot, meh, who cares, those are all good fun. As for the business practices and personal morals of the people in charge, I haven't seen it first-hand, but hearing some of the stories...It's probably for the best.

I just hope this won't affect the 3rd Party products, especially MakeToys' Giant.

Kung Fu Man wrote:God that's a painful wall of text...let's just boil everything down shall we?

*This won't stop KOs from being made or sold. If anything it'll just make one more place they can be gotten from.

*People are never going to agree whether KOs are a good thing or not. We have to accept that blah blah blah

*Yes replicating a toy right down to the packaging was not the wisest move as it leads to people trying to pass off the fake as the original...

*...however if you're after an exclusive item that's that expensive, and you haven't researched beforehand...

*eBay and Paypal still have item dispute policies in place to deal with people selling KOs as the real thing. There's an actual option in both places for such a claim.

*The store is closing down. Anything you want from their stock for customizing or just the hell of it you better grab now, unless it's available on the other two KO-carrying websites.

Did that sum up everything pretty good?

Not quite as there are a couple of things you missed in there.

First off was that several projects, including the Terrocons, Technobots, Combiner Cassettes and DIno Cassettes were "in-house" products, meaning that they weren't just a store but one of the sources, and arguably the nastiest source in terms of KOs as they were one of the main proponents of replicating the packaging and giving scammers a steady supply of fakes.

The other thing is their approach to consumers. Common sense dictates that a business cannot survive if it alienates enough of its client base. That holds especially true when talking about a company making high end replicas of items.

KO Toys succeeded in alienating fans not only by KOing the packaging, but in their response to fan concerns. If they were serious about being there for fans, they would have put a "KOToys" logo on the boxes like the CHMS stuff has. Yet they instead chose to spin when fans were concerned about it and ban them from forums when the spin didn't take. That combined with KOing grail pieces, specifically Slamdance in my case, was what prompted me to make an international phonecall to Hasbro in the US.

The old saying is that businesses ignore customers at their peril. In this case it was somewhat more literal than usual though.

LiKwid wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

Thank you, LiKwid. My beef is solely with the length of some of these posts (using big words is also a sign of bad writing, but I'll save that tirade for another time ).

And Blurrz is doubly right: Spirited discussions - good. Insults - bad. Yes. Yes. We should all remember to play nice.

It Is Him wrote:

LiKwid wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

Thank you, LiKwid. My beef is solely with the length of some of these posts (using big words is also a sign of bad writing

So your beef is with discussions getting detailed (the more complex the vocabulary used, the more detailed the conversation becomes) and lengthy on a discussion forum? That's pretty ironic.

Bowspearer wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

LiKwid wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

Thank you, LiKwid. My beef is solely with the length of some of these posts (using big words is also a sign of bad writing

So your beef is with discussions getting detailed (the more complex the vocabulary used, the more detailed the conversation becomes) and lengthy on a discussion forum? That's pretty ironic.

No. You failed to summarize my point, so let me spell it out for you: Be concise.

It Is Him wrote:

Bowspearer wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

LiKwid wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

Thank you, LiKwid. My beef is solely with the length of some of these posts (using big words is also a sign of bad writing

So your beef is with discussions getting detailed (the more complex the vocabulary used, the more detailed the conversation becomes) and lengthy on a discussion forum? That's pretty ironic.

No. You failed to summarize my point, so let me spell it out for you: Be concise.

There's a difference between being brief and being concise, where at the risk of using an old saying and in this case, a pun, "the devil is in the detail".

Bowspearer wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Bowspearer wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

LiKwid wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Seriously, folks, please be concise and to the point. If you a write an essay, no one's going to care what you have to say.

Cheers mate.. Far too many big words for me to even bother to read some of these posts. Why they may have vaild points and opinions, I thought this was a forum for fans to talk about giant transforming robots from space..Not a legal zoom.com debate

This thread needs a nap me thinks

Thank you, LiKwid. My beef is solely with the length of some of these posts (using big words is also a sign of bad writing

So your beef is with discussions getting detailed (the more complex the vocabulary used, the more detailed the conversation becomes) and lengthy on a discussion forum? That's pretty ironic.

No. You failed to summarize my point, so let me spell it out for you: Be concise.

There's a difference between being brief and being concise, where at the risk of using an old saying and in this case, a pun, "the devil is in the detail".

My friend Merriam-Webster says you are wrong about the definition of brevity and concision.

Also, at the risk of being nitpicky, "the devil is in the details" isn't a pun, and I never said anything about details.

quoting bowspearer

"That combined with KOing grail pieces, specifically Slamdance in my case, was what prompted me to make an international phonecall to Hasbro in the US."


so by your own admission and a previous member of their boards you were ok with other ko's but when they wanted to make a ko of YOUR GRAIL it suddenly became an issue?

dont get me wrong im not a knock-off fan in the least but that smacks of hypocrisy. in light of this i really cant give you any credit for calling hasbro for 2 reasons 1)they more than likely were aware of the situation with the ko's and 2) if they werent planning on a slamdance ko would you have made that call? because based on your own posts that seems to be the case.

alternator77 wrote:quoting bowspearer

"That combined with KOing grail pieces, specifically Slamdance in my case, was what prompted me to make an international phonecall to Hasbro in the US."


so by your own admission and a previous member of their boards you were ok with other ko's but when they wanted to make a ko of YOUR GRAIL it suddenly became an issue?

dont get me wrong im not a knock-off fan in the least but that smacks of hypocrisy. in light of this i really cant give you any credit for calling hasbro for 2 reasons 1)they more than likely were aware of the situation with the ko's and 2) if they werent planning on a slamdance ko would you have made that call? because based on your own posts that seems to be the case.

You've either only caught half the facts or you're trying to spin things.

Ok so here's the full story. When I found out about the Dino Cassettes I joined their boards, because I was concerned about the packaging (and I'll admit, I was tempted to get them as a placeholder, but not when they were scam fodder).

I asked about the packaging, got given spin by GenZhao who sidestepped the question as well as unethical crap by forum members over the following few days. I then pointed out that regardless of their intentions; if KOToys didn't change the boxart and someone else passed them off as the real thing; it amounted to culpable negligence KOToys' part.

When I went to check back on the thread, I was greeted with a screen which read (and still reads as it's an IP ban by the looks of it):

Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!
Your slandering us

So yes, I was a member of their boards for a less than a week and the only thing I discussed was their knocking off of packaging.

Right after I was banned, I then looked up their IP address and hosting details and contacted their hosting company by email about them,which I never heard back from. I was also considering contacting Hasbro by phone.

When they announced pre-orders for Slamdance and Squawkbox though I took it an extra step and called Hasbro US from Australia in the middle of the night (I had to wait until after midnight to reach them during business hours) to report them.

Did it take that act on their part to provoke me into such drastic action, sure, but to say that I had no problem whatsoever and had taken no action whatsoever in the past, is a complete fallacy.

Had they not banned you would you have still called Hasbro US?

Bowspearer wrote:

alternator77 wrote:quoting bowspearer

"That combined with KOing grail pieces, specifically Slamdance in my case, was what prompted me to make an international phonecall to Hasbro in the US."


so by your own admission and a previous member of their boards you were ok with other ko's but when they wanted to make a ko of YOUR GRAIL it suddenly became an issue?

dont get me wrong im not a knock-off fan in the least but that smacks of hypocrisy. in light of this i really cant give you any credit for calling hasbro for 2 reasons 1)they more than likely were aware of the situation with the ko's and 2) if they werent planning on a slamdance ko would you have made that call? because based on your own posts that seems to be the case.

You've either only caught half the facts or you're trying to spin things.

Ok so here's the full story. When I found out about the Dino Cassettes I joined their boards, because I was concerned about the packaging (and I'll admit, I was tempted to get them as a placeholder, but not when they were scam fodder).


so here you are ok with a knockoff.


I asked about the packaging, got given spin by GenZhao who sidestepped the question as well as unethical crap by forum members over the following few days. I then pointed out that regardless of their intentions; if KOToys didn't change the boxart and someone else passed them off as the real thing; it amounted to culpable negligence KOToys' part.




When I went to check back on the thread, I was greeted with a screen which read (and still reads as it's an IP ban by the looks of it):

Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!
Your slandering us

when you join any site as a new member the quickest way to get banned is to come in and criticize everything they do (its called trolling)

So yes, I was a member of their boards for a less than a week and the only thing I discussed was their knocking off of packaging.

Right after I was banned, I then looked up their IP address and hosting details and contacted their hosting company by email about them,which I never heard back from. I was also considering contacting Hasbro by phone.

When they announced pre-orders for Slamdance and Squawkbox though I took it an extra step and called Hasbro US from Australia in the middle of the night (I had to wait until after midnight to reach them during business hours) to report them.

Did it take that act on their part to provoke me into such drastic action, sure, but to say that I had no problem whatsoever and had taken no action whatsoever in the past, is a complete fallacy.

sounds like another case of i trolled, i provoked, i got banned im sorry that youre frustrated but by your own admission you joined in the hopes of getting a ko or at least were considering one.

this thread is really going nowhere and this is my last post on it.

good night everyone.