The Energon Pub

i like this one alot,

Convotron... Well, I wouldn't call $50 per figure "ideal" for collectors... But given the circumstances, I'd take it.

Hehe, I guess collectors would think $1 is ideal but the point is that collectors who are in the market for 3rd party products should be able to comfortably afford several $50 figures as opposed to several $100 figures.

Convotron wrote:Hehe, I guess collectors would think $1 is ideal but the point is that collectors who are in the market for 3rd party products should be able to comfortably afford several $50 figures as opposed to several $100 figures.

Couldn't agree more.

With my faux budget, $50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny before I'll lay down my cash.

[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....[/quote]

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.

gothsaurus wrote:[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.[/quote]

Yes, but after BOTH 3rd party versions of Arcee, TFC would have to be trying to not be worth the value.

Requiem Prime wrote:

gothsaurus wrote:[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.

Yes, but after BOTH 3rd party versions of Arcee, TFC would have to be trying to not be worth the value.

Valkerie I can understand, but what's wrong with Delicate Warrior?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Valkerie I can understand, but what's wrong with Delicate Warrior?

I don't want to needlessly hate, but...

I guess I'm just missing why everyone likes delicate warrior. I honestly think it looks like a hot mess. I wouldn't spend $2.00 on it, let alone the ridiculous pricetag they were asking. I see zero appeal in that figure. Total garbage.

/hate

Digressing a bit, both the Val & Delicate Warrior were pretty decent, though not perfect. (in sculpt and quality.)

I think people have raved about them because it's the best we've gotten to date... I STILL wish hasbro would step up to the plate. Seeing some of the great Classics/United toys we've gotten, I know they could deliver on a movie accurate Arcee.

But back to the two Devastators....

Persona;;y, the only Arcee I've liked is the Animated one.At first, it was the Energon version, but Animated Arcee topped it.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:

gothsaurus wrote:[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.

Yes, but after BOTH 3rd party versions of Arcee, TFC would have to be trying to not be worth the value.

Valkerie I can understand, but what's wrong with Delicate Warrior?

I'm with you on this. I really like Delicate Warrior and have heard great things about the quality.

amcgrath929 wrote:I'm with you on this. I really like Delicate Warrior and have heard great things about the quality.

The quality is fine. The engineering isn't all that impressive, though. It looks well enough in both modes, but it would probably be ripped if it were an official product based on how lame the 'cram limbs underneath vehicle' transformation is. It's not even neatly folded under... But again, it looks quite nice.

Kibble wrote:

amcgrath929 wrote:I'm with you on this. I really like Delicate Warrior and have heard great things about the quality.

The quality is fine. The engineering isn't all that impressive, though. It looks well enough in both modes, but it would probably be ripped if it were an official product based on how lame the 'cram limbs underneath vehicle' transformation is. It's not even neatly folded under... But again, it looks quite nice.

Well it was designed by a customizer if I remember right. It works for me. It gets the job done and look well in both modes. PE does the same thing really.

amcgrath929 wrote:

Kibble wrote:

amcgrath929 wrote:I'm with you on this. I really like Delicate Warrior and have heard great things about the quality.

The quality is fine. The engineering isn't all that impressive, though. It looks well enough in both modes, but it would probably be ripped if it were an official product based on how lame the 'cram limbs underneath vehicle' transformation is. It's not even neatly folded under... But again, it looks quite nice.

Well it was designed by a customizer if I remember right. It works for me. It gets the job done and look well in both modes. PE does the same thing really.

I'm happy with it and think it rounds out my classics collection. This devi would be used with the dinobot combiner, they don't fit with anything else but can look really cool together.

I've never been fussed about the underside of car robots. The only time would be when their robot faces are clearly visible, but mainly because I imagine all the dirt and mud they'd almost literally be eating.

Planes, on the other hand, need a nice underside IMO. Or at least nice-ish.

It's open to opinion, but I think the engineering is about as good as Classics Starscream. Nothing too clever, but it looks the part in both modes.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:

gothsaurus wrote:[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.

Yes, but after BOTH 3rd party versions of Arcee, TFC would have to be trying to not be worth the value.

Valkerie I can understand, but what's wrong with Delicate Warrior?

Alright, there has been too much skirting my actual point and focusing on if Delicate Warrior was good or not. The problem with Delicate Warrior wasn't that she was bad. She does indeed get the job done far better than impossible's.

My problem with her was that she was just okay. My point was about price to value returned. Filling a void is all fine and good, but does not cut it. If it did, we wouldn't get excited over upgrade sets. Setting the character choice aside, the fact 3rd parties operate outside the engineering and marketablity limits Hasbro sets for itself is (IMO) the reason their higher prices are justified. In short, I pay more because I expect better. If I wasn't, I could wait Hasbro out to the end of time.

And by better, not just basic QC (there are million ways to fix joints), I mean content, quality of material, and especially engineering; things they fully intended to put into it when plans left the table. And when you pass the 50-60 mark, something needs to say "Hasbro not only wouldn't do this, they wouldn't try this hard".

From what I've seen, TFC would have to fail all over the place for it not meet something of the price. Just trying to do a Devy this big is impressive. And MakeToys is somehow mastering uncompromised G1 style with post-classic engineering (at least combined) and I'm really excited to see that work.

Requiem Prime wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:

gothsaurus wrote:[quote="Jesterhead"...$50 for a toy I like is a no brainer, but anything over 50 goes through some serious scrutiny....

Wow. I think you summed it up for most every collector. Nicely put. This is exactly how I think about 3rd party items.

Yes, but after BOTH 3rd party versions of Arcee, TFC would have to be trying to not be worth the value.

Valkerie I can understand, but what's wrong with Delicate Warrior?

Alright, there has been too much skirting my actual point and focusing on if Delicate Warrior was good or not. The problem with Delicate Warrior wasn't that she was bad. She does indeed get the job done far better than impossible's.

My problem with her was that she was just okay. My point was about price to value returned. Filling a void is all fine and good, but does not cut it. If it did, we wouldn't get excited over upgrade sets. Setting the character choice aside, the fact 3rd parties operate outside the engineering and marketablity limits Hasbro sets for itself is (IMO) the reason their higher prices are justified. In short, I pay more because I expect better. If I wasn't, I could wait Hasbro out to the end of time.

And by better, not just basic QC (there are million ways to fix joints), I mean content, quality of material, and especially engineering; things they fully intended to put into it when plans left the table. And when you pass the 50-60 mark, something needs to say "Hasbro not only wouldn't do this, they wouldn't try this hard".

From what I've seen, TFC would have to fail all over the place for it not meet something of the price. Just trying to do a Devy this big is impressive. And MakeToys is somehow mastering uncompromised G1 style with post-classic engineering (at least combined) and I'm really excited to see that work.

I see what you are saying. I guess I just don't agree with it completely. When it comes to price, at least for me, I not only look at the figure itself but I also factor in supply and such. Delicate Warrior from what I understand is assembled one at a time by the maker. That's why iGear can only take so many pre-orders each month. It also has some die-cast parts which I'm sure raises cost.

MakeToy seems to be on the same engineering plane as FP. Even the aesthetics look the same to me. Granted we do not know the price point, I've already made up my mind it is worth it.

Now I'm going to sound a little hypocritical here. I'm a little worried with TFC's quality. That's why I haven't pre-ordered Exgraver yet & I cannot say the price is justified. Now you think, how can you be so sure about MakeToy? Well, I''m not but not having sub-par projects under their belt and being closely related to FP helps the cause. I recently bought TFC's Battle Rollar to try and get a feel for the plastic they use and how their figures feel. I want to buy Hercules as well so I'm hoping they succeed with this project.

Well, it's a fair enough point to say "not worth it for the price". Delicate Warrior did make the price point for all these sort of figures jump up.

I think she's worth it. The plastic and joints feel very sturdy. And, yeah, handmade. But ti's pretty subjective.

I can't get as fully behind Maketoy's Devestator as everyone else, though. FP's support or no, we have not seen even one product by these guys. Not one. And they have more than just Devestator as their debut project, there's also the minibots. Who know how long Devestator will take to come out in full?

And, if they have FP's support, will they have FP's notorious delays as well? I like FP like everyone else, but .... delay city. Can't be denied.

It's not that I think they won't do it. I just can't get more excited for it than TFC's attempt. Except for the price point. Although it's funny that we call a $300 TF "affordable" now.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can't get as fully behind Maketoy's Devestator as everyone else, though. FP's support or no, we have not seen even one product by these guys. Not one. And they have more than just Devestator as their debut project, there's also the minibots. Who know how long Devestator will take to come out in full?

And, if they have FP's support, will they have FP's notorious delays as well? I like FP like everyone else, but .... delay city. Can't be denied.

It's not that I think they won't do it. I just can't get more excited for it than TFC's attempt. Except for the price point. Although it's funny that we call a $300 TF "affordable" now.

That's just it, it's not. It's 6 robots at $50 each (assuming the price point would be $300). I know these figures combine to form Devastator and that is the big seller, myself included, but there isn't a 600 dollar figure on BBTS. There's one for $90 something odd dollars. I hate the $600 figure complaint. (sorry for the rant )

You are right, MT doesn't have a track record yet so it is up in the air. But, I think they will by the time Devastator hits retail. Like you said, they have two other projects in the works as well and I think one if not both will come out before Devastator.

Requiem Prime wrote:Alright, there has been too much skirting my actual point and focusing on if Delicate Warrior was good or not. The problem with Delicate Warrior wasn't that she was bad. She does indeed get the job done far better than impossible's.

My problem with her was that she was just okay. My point was about price to value returned. Filling a void is all fine and good, but does not cut it. If it did, we wouldn't get excited over upgrade sets. Setting the character choice aside, the fact 3rd parties operate outside the engineering and marketablity limits Hasbro sets for itself is (IMO) the reason their higher prices are justified. In short, I pay more because I expect better. If I wasn't, I could wait Hasbro out to the end of time.

And by better, not just basic QC (there are million ways to fix joints), I mean content, quality of material, and especially engineering; things they fully intended to put into it when plans left the table. And when you pass the 50-60 mark, something needs to say "Hasbro not only wouldn't do this, they wouldn't try this hard".

I agree. This fig is nice to have to fill that void in the collection, but I don't think she's a 'good buy' at $120 shipped...especially if/when a proper alternative is made available. I don't regret the purchase (yet), but I'd have a hard time recommending her. I wouldn't go as far as saying anyone shouldn't get her either, but it's far from an amazing figure. It looks nice and the quality is decent. If that's your expectations, go for it. If your expectations are more than being visually impressed, though, you're probably not going to get your money's worth.

Back to Dev...I was able to cancel my Exgraver pre-order so I'm back to being a free agent! I still like what I see from TFC better so far, but I'd like to hear what the quality is and I'd also like to hear MT's price. If it really ends up being half the price, it makes it a pretty easy decision.

Even worse than everyone's hopes and fears about the price is the timeline. Don't forget MT has 3 other announced projects, with more minibots being the natural progression. Given the (alleged) price difference, I know it's shrewd to steal some of TFC's thunder, but I'll be very sad if the Build set is years down the road when it wouldn't have mattered financially. Especially if it knee-capps Hercules' would be success. Don't say it's unlikely, they do have FP ties after all.

Then again; FP made a schedule (and technically held it), iGear's making their own designs, TFC is shooting big right now, and PE teased they were too with a Soundwave. Who really knows anything more?

Requiem Prime wrote:Even worse than everyone's hopes and fears about the price is the timeline. Don't forget MT has 3 other announced projects, with more minibots being the natural progression. Given the (alleged) price difference, I know it's shrewd to steal some of TFC's thunder, but I'll be very sad if the Build set is years down the road when it wouldn't have mattered financially. Especially if it knee-capps Hercules' would be success. Don't say it's unlikely, they do have FP ties after all.

Then again; FP made a schedule (and technically held it), iGear's making their own designs, TFC is shooting big right now, and PE teased they were too with a Soundwave. Who really knows anything more?

I'd imagine MakeToy's lines will run parallel just as FP's Parallax & Crossfire lines did.

amcgrath929 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:Even worse than everyone's hopes and fears about the price is the timeline. Don't forget MT has 3 other announced projects, with more minibots being the natural progression. Given the (alleged) price difference, I know it's shrewd to steal some of TFC's thunder, but I'll be very sad if the Build set is years down the road when it wouldn't have mattered financially. Especially if it knee-capps Hercules' would be success. Don't say it's unlikely, they do have FP ties after all.

Then again; FP made a schedule (and technically held it), iGear's making their own designs, TFC is shooting big right now, and PE teased they were too with a Soundwave. Who really knows anything more?

I'd imagine MakeToy's lines will run parallel just as FP's Parallax & Crossfire lines did.

Why? They might have FP's support, but they are not FP and they are just starting out.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

amcgrath929 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:Even worse than everyone's hopes and fears about the price is the timeline. Don't forget MT has 3 other announced projects, with more minibots being the natural progression. Given the (alleged) price difference, I know it's shrewd to steal some of TFC's thunder, but I'll be very sad if the Build set is years down the road when it wouldn't have mattered financially. Especially if it knee-capps Hercules' would be success. Don't say it's unlikely, they do have FP ties after all.

Then again; FP made a schedule (and technically held it), iGear's making their own designs, TFC is shooting big right now, and PE teased they were too with a Soundwave. Who really knows anything more?

I'd imagine MakeToy's lines will run parallel just as FP's Parallax & Crossfire lines did.

Why? They might have FP's support, but they are not FP and they are just starting out.

Maybe they have they can use Fansproject's resources. Rumor train says the guy behind FP Crossfire series is also behind MakeToy. But honestly, that's all rumors. All we can do is speculate here. Look at these guys though. What other third party company has come out of nowhere with projects like these? FP's first set was a small resin kit. Perfect Effect had the sub par God Sword. These guys aren't starting from ground zero, at least I don't think so.



:::EDIT:::
Worst case scenario and these guys are starting from scratch with zero help, I still don't see them any worse off than TFC. Yeah, TFC has a running schedule but I highly doubt it's accurate. They have 3-5 different projects going on right now as well. I hope both companies take as much time as they need. I'd like both Devy's to be on par with FP quality.

amcgrath929 wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:Even worse than everyone's hopes and fears about the price is the timeline. Don't forget MT has 3 other announced projects, with more minibots being the natural progression. Given the (alleged) price difference, I know it's shrewd to steal some of TFC's thunder, but I'll be very sad if the Build set is years down the road when it wouldn't have mattered financially. Especially if it knee-capps Hercules' would be success. Don't say it's unlikely, they do have FP ties after all.

Then again; FP made a schedule (and technically held it), iGear's making their own designs, TFC is shooting big right now, and PE teased they were too with a Soundwave. Who really knows anything more?

I'd imagine MakeToy's lines will run parallel just as FP's Parallax & Crossfire lines did.

I'd venture that's a good guess, since they had working unpainted prototypes of both the minibots and the G2 OP Trailer set at botcon. Looked to be the same materials that FP was using with the products sitting right next to it, too.

I'd say it's a reasonable assumption the quality of MT products will equal or be near to FP products.