The Energon Pub

Chaoslock wrote:The beautiful side of these posts are, that they are not from sub-faction members!!!

*yawn*

Look... Chaoslock, I have been an AWC member since I think november 2003 (Q4 2003 anyway). I just haven't been that active within the AWC for a good period of time (I have my reasons). But I am a subfaction member, get your facts straight. This only makes you look stupid.

If, as you say,

fact 1: If, as the basis of everything, sub-faction members don't read/post on these forum, HOW TEH HELL ARE THEY GONNA READ THE ATTENTION AND THE WARNINGS????

Where did I say this...?



Oh and people who think OS is doing this because of goddamn page views really need their heads checked. Frankly, I find it insulting to the guy who puts so much hard work in V2.

Good job.

I could have sworn that this is Vir's game...

Daneki wrote:I could have sworn that this is Vir's game...

Sharpwing wrote:
Oh and people who think OS is doing this because of goddamn page views really need their heads checked. Frankly, I find it insulting to the guy who puts so much hard work in V2.

Well here's the thing. I'm trying to think of an actual, valid reason for this ban. One that isn't a dictatorial demand to give up offsite activity. And all I can come up with is a stupid reason like that.

You know why?

There is no valid reason behind this ban. If I want to participate in what is essentially a fansite about HMW, I'm not harming the game. I'm merely exercising my right to talk about whatever the hell I want to away from this website.

Does anyone besides OS know what he has planned for the faction forums. NO. So why don't all you hardcore RDDer's cool your jets and find out before jumping the gun?

Where to begin ...

Let's start with ... I don't particulary care one way or another whether the sub-factions are allowed to exist or not.

But it's clearly obvious that for some it's what makes the game enjoyable for them.

And really, are they THAT much of a problem? Yes, there were problems in the past. IN THE PAST.

Has anyone seen any problems lately? Anyone? No? Thought not.

So what is this about? The off-site forums taking away page hits from this place? Yes? Maybe?

eh. Don't really care really. What I do NOT like is the threat of bans hanging over people's heads like a sword ready to drop.

All because they what, wear a tag and post on another forum? I don't wear a tag but I post on other forums. Other Transformer forums too!

I am allowed to do that aren't I? Be a member of other forums? Because that's all these guys are doing, wearing a tag and being on another forum. Know what one of the biggest reasons I saw for people doing that? They find the population of Seibertron.com to be too big and are intimidated to join in the discussions outside of the HMW forum.

Just yesterday I had quite an enjoyable discussion with Alpha Strike. I challenged him over a number of things, in particular his absence. He defended himself that he's readily available on Yahoo! and that a lot of people can contact him there, and do so, and they often have great in-depth discussions.

Why is it then that a Moderator of this site, someone who no doubt supports this rule, is holding his own HMW-related court Yahoo! yet anyone who discusses HMW on another forum is threatened with a ban?

Rules are rules yeah, but not all rules are right, and three years have proven that the sub-factions have given many people more levels of fun for this game. And that fun has heavily out-weighed the problems they've generated.

But you know what I REALLY hate about all this? The people that are quitting. One in particular.

Tammuz.

When this guy first started he got up my goat something chronic. Him and the rest of his Boot "We don't want the advice from you veterans" Camp buddies. But this guy has risen through the ranks and become one, if not the most, versed people in this game.

When Glyph said he was implementing the support staff and invited me along, I recommended Tammuz as well. For whatever reason Glyph chose to not go along with that recommondation. When OS took over I again recommended Tammuz and OS quite readily agreed. And during my tenure on the support staff with Tammuz he did nothing BUT present good ideas and i'm sure he's kept doing that after my departure.

The loss of him WILL affect this game greatly. Sure, we still have OS on helm but everybody's capable of mistakes, or they could do with thoughts from another perspective, and Tammuz was one of the best for that job.

And if this rule means Tammuz isn't part of this "community" then it's not good for the game. And it doesn't just stop at Tammuz, there are plenty of others who have contributed to this game in some way, even if it's just being who they are, and if they're not around the game is going to lose a little bit of it's soul.

Surely there must be SOME way to work around this? I mean, I simply can't understand the need for threats of banning Is that really necessary?

it has to be burn otherwise the GREATE OS wouldn't put up those rules! you must be care full or else the next line of people getting banned are people with a brain and an own opinion

u know, i don't care any more if they want to ban us, let them, i am keeping my tag and sig on. They show character in each of us and each of one of u who is in a sub-faction aka clan. why should anyone be force to change ur sig or take off your Tag.

to be honest clan and sub-faction have been going for year well before seibertron or HMW ever started.

as few TC members in the RDD BASE said if u like to carry on with the game with out been risk of being ban then take your tags off and carry on as players. In my personal opinion by taking your tag and sig off you just admitting defeat and saying the sub-faction should no longer to carry on.

but i am keeping my tag and sig on. if it wasn't for the sub-faction with people like Edge, NS any other member of the RDD i would never got to where i am today.

SpawnDragon13 wrote:u know, i don't care any more if they want to ban us, let them, i am keeping my tag and sig on. They show character in each of us and each of one of u who is in a sub-faction aka clan. why should anyone be force to change ur sig or take off your Tag.

to be honest clan and sub-faction have been going for year well before seibertron or HMW ever started.

as few TC members in the RDD BASE said if u like to carry on with the game with out been risk of being ban then take your tags off and carry on as players. In my personal opinion by taking your tag and sig off you just admitting defeat and saying the sub-faction should no longer to carry on.

but i am keeping my tag and sig on. if it wasn't for the sub-faction with people like Edge, NS any other member of the RDD i would never got to where i am today.

well said man well said

Burn wrote:Yes, there were problems in the past. IN THE PAST.

Has anyone seen any problems lately? Anyone? No? Thought not.

This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

While not necessarily enough alone to justify this, that was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, as well as a bad omen for v2 in general.

Tammuz.

When this guy first started he got up my goat something chronic. Him and the rest of his Boot "We don't want the advice from you veterans" Camp buddies. But this guy has risen through the ranks and become one, if not the most, versed people in this game.

When Glyph said he was implementing the support staff and invited me along, I recommended Tammuz as well. For whatever reason Glyph chose to not go along with that recommondation. When OS took over I again recommended Tammuz and OS quite readily agreed. And during my tenure on the support staff with Tammuz he did nothing BUT present good ideas and i'm sure he's kept doing that after my departure.

The loss of him WILL affect this game greatly. Sure, we still have OS on helm but everybody's capable of mistakes, or they could do with thoughts from another perspective, and Tammuz was one of the best for that job.

And if this rule means Tammuz isn't part of this "community" then it's not good for the game.

While it bothers me that any game could be so greatly effected by the resignation of one player, this is still very true. I'm a little disappointed that he has decided to exploit his expertise in such a way, but I'm sure from his perspective he's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. I hope he reconsiders.

Caelus wrote:

Burn wrote:Yes, there were problems in the past. IN THE PAST.

Has anyone seen any problems lately? Anyone? No? Thought not.

This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

While not necessarily enough alone to justify this, that was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, as well as a bad omen for v2 in general.

Tammuz.

When this guy first started he got up my goat something chronic. Him and the rest of his Boot "We don't want the advice from you veterans" Camp buddies. But this guy has risen through the ranks and become one, if not the most, versed people in this game.

When Glyph said he was implementing the support staff and invited me along, I recommended Tammuz as well. For whatever reason Glyph chose to not go along with that recommondation. When OS took over I again recommended Tammuz and OS quite readily agreed. And during my tenure on the support staff with Tammuz he did nothing BUT present good ideas and i'm sure he's kept doing that after my departure.

The loss of him WILL affect this game greatly. Sure, we still have OS on helm but everybody's capable of mistakes, or they could do with thoughts from another perspective, and Tammuz was one of the best for that job.

And if this rule means Tammuz isn't part of this "community" then it's not good for the game.

While it bothers me that any game could be so greatly effected by the resignation of one player, this is still very true. I'm a little disappointed that he has decided to exploit his expertise in such a way, but I'm sure from his perspective he's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. I hope he reconsiders.

he is doing the right thing why help you guys destroy the community of FANS to the game? because you guys feel like it and take some bs seriouse but hey that's the way you guys run OS HIS GAME

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

they have authority? lmao they have a lot but not that

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

Why not hit the source of the cheating rather than the players, that stops current cheating and future cheating in one blow.... makes sense to me.

This is site and game, in all practical aspects, is a business. It is a free business but still a business. Seibs has its owner, managers, employee\staff, etc but also customers. We, the players and those who come to the site are the customers. We do have the right to be heard but as with real life, we have to be calm about how we go about things. I want some of you who are pissed off to go up to your favorite store the next time you are pissed and "ask" for help with something. You will soon realize how that makes the ones who are trying to help you react. In business, rules do change and sometimes we don't understand why or see what the effects are until some time later. There are times that we are simply unhappy with how those rules change. If a rule does seem unfair for whatever the reason, then a group of customers should get together and see what can be changed. Hopefully the owner or manager will at least listen to those customers. Not every time the rules change but sometimes they do. The last thing I want to add is a saying that I learned this semester in my two business classes. It is by Sam Walton, the guy who created Wal-Mart. He said "the customer is the only one who can fire us" referring to the store themselves.

Knight Hawk wrote:

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

Why not hit the source of the cheating rather than the players, that stops current cheating and future cheating in one blow.... makes sense to me.

Are you accuseing us of cheating? because I'd like to see your evidence.

If it wasnt for the RDD, Id have goten bored and buggered off at least a year ago.

The RDD helped me understand the game, meet other players, gain confidence to speak on HMWGD and generally enjoy the game in a way I wasnt before.

It's true that these days I dont vist the HMW forum much, this is becuase I dont need to. I speak to others online (RDD, Con, Bot and AWC), and (when necersary) on HMWGD.

I probably wouldnt be doing any of that if it wasnt for the RDD.

I also wouldnt have learnt what was needed or got the courage to run the two alt hunts I have run (and hope to run in the future) if it wasnt for peeps from the RDD showing me how.

So many of the player run games have come from RDD players, heck -Soundwave- alone has done more for the comunity than some mods will ever do. Is she to be banned too?

So my question is:
Now you want to take that away.

Why?



Well, I'm waiting.

Knight Hawk wrote:

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

Why not hit the source of the cheating rather than the players, that stops current cheating and future cheating in one blow.... makes sense to me.

A car crash victim wrote:Cars are the source of road traffic accidents, so let's blame them instead of their drivers.

That's how much logic there is in your arguement, Knighthawk.
If someone even tried to start a let's-think-of-methods-to-cheat-in-V2 thread in Neo Kaon, it'd get deleted and the thread starter most likely banned. Who knows if Caelus's cheater is RDD or not? I haven't seen such a thread, at any rate so I'll say it's from another clan until shown otherwise.
With that being the case, why is the RDD getting closed down because someone from another clan plans on cheating?

Also, I want to know what this means for other tags?

Currently, my team has two tags [BAM] (Bishop Auckland Masive, Bishop Auckland is my home town) and [ODB] (Offcial Disgruntled Btits, the country I come form, and a sub group of the another part of the forum that IS very suported but the powers that be).

Is sporting these a ban worthy offence too?

First, I want to say that I understand the anger that some members feel and are expressing towards the recent decision concerning the Heavy Metal War related offsite subfaction sites. I am aware that the founders and administrators of such sites have worked hard and spent a lot of time on them to make them what they are. However, I feel that some of the angry, unthoughtout outbursts that several members have posted only serve to harm rather than help their cause and do nothing to endear them to the moderators and administrators of Seibertron. It is my humble opinion that there are better, more well thought out methods in which to voice one’s opinion on such matters.

On that note, I would also like to register my own displeasure towards the recent decision to ban any and all members who participate in the aforementioned offsite forums. I feel that such a prohibition will only serve to drive such sites underground at best and alienate regular forum and game members at worst. I understand that there have been incidents with unruly Seibertron and Heavy Metal War members who are also participants in the offsite forums; however, the recent policies enacted seem to be an “easy means out” of dealing with these troublemakers that punishes even non-offenders. I believe that these policies will ultimately prove to be impossible to enforce and in the end solve nothing. It also suggests, along with other recent site activities, that the Seibertron administrators have become increasingly hostile towards the forum communities as a whole. I apologize if this observation is in error, but this is the impression that I am receiving from this action, one that might be shared by other members, though I will not claim to speak for anyone but myself on this matter.

Thank you

sumowrestler wrote:This is site and game, in all practical aspects, is a business. It is a free business but still a business. Seibs has its owner, managers, employee\staff, etc but also customers. We, the players and those who come to the site are the customers. We do have the right to be heard but as with real life, we have to be calm about how we go about things. I want some of you who are pissed off to go up to your favorite store the next time you are pissed and "ask" for help with something. You will soon realize how that makes the ones who are trying to help you react. In business, rules do change and sometimes we don't understand why or see what the effects are until some time later. There are times that we are simply unhappy with how those rules change. If a rule does seem unfair for whatever the reason, then a group of customers should get together and see what can be changed. Hopefully the owner or manager will at least listen to those customers. Not every time the rules change but sometimes they do. The last thing I want to add is a saying that I learned this semester in my two business classes. It is by Sam Walton, the guy who created Wal-Mart. He said "the customer is the only one who can fire us" referring to the store themselves.

I work in a place where I getunhappy customers coming up to me all the time. And you know what? I follow the tennet of all businesses.

The customer is always right.

If it's a problem that alot of customers are complaining about, I find out what the problem is, and fix it. I do that because I want the customers to come back. What I don't want to do is say "you don't like the way I run my store? Fine! You're banned!" That's actually the worst thing I could imagine of doing.

Daneki wrote:

sumowrestler wrote:This is site and game, in all practical aspects, is a business. It is a free business but still a business. Seibs has its owner, managers, employee\staff, etc but also customers. We, the players and those who come to the site are the customers. We do have the right to be heard but as with real life, we have to be calm about how we go about things. I want some of you who are pissed off to go up to your favorite store the next time you are pissed and "ask" for help with something. You will soon realize how that makes the ones who are trying to help you react. In business, rules do change and sometimes we don't understand why or see what the effects are until some time later. There are times that we are simply unhappy with how those rules change. If a rule does seem unfair for whatever the reason, then a group of customers should get together and see what can be changed. Hopefully the owner or manager will at least listen to those customers. Not every time the rules change but sometimes they do. The last thing I want to add is a saying that I learned this semester in my two business classes. It is by Sam Walton, the guy who created Wal-Mart. He said "the customer is the only one who can fire us" referring to the store themselves.

I work in a place where I getunhappy customers coming up to me all the time. And you know what? I follow the tennet of all businesses.

The customer is always right.

If it's a problem that alot of customers are complaining about, I find out what the problem is, and fix it. I do that because I want the customers to come back. What I don't want to do is say "you don't like the way I run my store? Fine! You're banned!" That's actually the worst thing I could imagine of doing.

not only the worste but also the dummbest thing to do but I think it has to be a part of .... nvm I'm stain human here

Great, more drama.

Let me get this straight, each faction will have their own forum, which will be inaccessable to the other factions, right?

Therefore, having outside websites to discuss specific faction tactics would be rendered totally moot, right?

Especially when these outside sites could easily be accessed by opposing faction members, whether by invitation or infiltration.

From what I can see, these new faction forums are so that EVERYONE who belongs to that faction can gain access to ALL the information needed to COORDINATE WITH OTHER FACTION MEMBERS and WIN THEIR BLOODY BATTLES, which is the whole **** point of V2. These outside websites fracture information too much, therefore causing confusion amongst players and inevitably losing their faction a key sector.

Looking at the ban threats, I reckon that will be to do with people who pass information from one faction to another, as opposed to the same faction members discussing HMW. Then again, with MSN and YIM readily available, this will be impossible to police.

Then again, seeing as I won't be here for V2, I couldn't care less what you RDD/AWC/ADHD/LOL people do anyway. Stay, go, bitch, whine, whatever, I'm sick of it. All of it...

Caelus wrote:

Burn wrote:Yes, there were problems in the past. IN THE PAST.

Has anyone seen any problems lately? Anyone? No? Thought not.

This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

While not necessarily enough alone to justify this, that was effectively the straw that broke the camel's back, as well as a bad omen for v2 in general.

Here's the bloody rub Caelus. that was never going to happen. Why? ME!!!

I was reelected leader of the RDD to keep things on the straight and narrow. Now for the last month, ask mkall to confirm this, I had been fighting with insomnia. Now as I came back I stumbled onto this. Now as leader I had the right to have final say in any and all action. And ask anyone here, all I ever fought for was to bury the old grudges and keep things going so that this bullshit would NEVER happened. I vetoed it, but whoever told Mkall failed to say that part. So then Mkall tells Os and Os tells Seibs and Seibs says we're done.

I informed most of the staff, INCLUDING seibs one thing: if there is ever any problems with the RDD, tell me, I will do EVERYTHING in my power to stop it.

All that had to be done is a PM or E-Mail and I would have told them it was nipped in the bud, even give proof of it. But nope, why do that? No one talks problems out anymore, best to lay out punishments. So fine, you guys win. Good job alienating people based on some obscure comment someone made to a mod and not check with the source.

I am done giving a damn. Forget being a part of any ideas. No way will I ever contribute anything to be used as alts or sigs. And the Decepticon board, or any faction board I CAN go to if I ever switch sides is going to exist without me going there. I'm here for the game, my friends, their works and to have fun within my enclosed social structure because as the leader of the RDD i represented evil and corruption in all of it's goddamned forms, though that opinion is formed by lack of communication.

And if anyone has a problem with that, tell it to someone who cares...and FYI, so not me.

As for the RDD and any faction members I only say this: Do what you feel is the right thing to do for yourself in this situation and respect the actions of those who choose differently than you. This is a bad sitch, some must make hard choices in them. Support each other in any way possible and please don't throw words like traitors around if they don;t support a revolt or call the revolters fools for doing what they are doing. Just do what you gotta do and have no regrets.

Thus ends my last major contribution to the site, may the witch hunt continue now.

Knight Hawk wrote:

Daneki wrote:

Caelus wrote:
This isn't entirely true. Supposedly, certain players were already laying plans to use their off-site forum to circumvent rules that OS had already established for v2. Now, however questionable or practical those rules migh or might not be, the fact remains that that is essentially planning to cheat.

So why not use your source of information to ban the cheaters-to-be rather than painting us all with the same brush? This is blatant misuse of authority.

Why not hit the source of the cheating rather than the players, that stops current cheating and future cheating in one blow.... makes sense to me.

Da. I said before when dealing with subfaction issues that individual members should be dealt with for individual infractions, but that was when the issue was flaming, spamming, etc.

This is a bit different. As it was related to me, this was effectively certain subfaction members deciding that their status as subfaction members elevated them above the rules outlined for the game, an attitude that was going to be impressed upon their fellow members. Effectively, any given player might be inclined to follow all the rules posted on this site until they logged onto their off-site forum and everyone told them that they don't have to.

You then run into a situation where the subfaction and the game makers are at odds as to what is legal and what isn't, with lots of relatively innocent players getting banned for cheating because they trusted their allies, who haven't necessarily gotten caught with their hand in the cookie jar. There just aren't many ways to resolve that problem gracefully.

If we ban people as these particular offenses are committed then we'll certainly ban lots of people and, well, the offenses will already have been committed. With this approach, it was at least possible no one would need to be banned. And at least those few that do get banned can't claim that they didn't understand what was going to happen.

Now, you can return to the fact that people can exchange the same info over IM that they can on an off-site forum, but we all know it isn't as efficient. The fact is, where there is a will there is a way - people can always find a way to cheat or to break laws, but it's the game staff's responsibility to make cheating as difficult as possible. To make it so much trouble, it isn't worth doing. Or at least, to make sure that so few people are doing it, that the effect on the general gaming community is negligible.