The Energon Pub

Goribus wrote:Well except for the Kangaroo fighting game. I bet that's pretty popular in your neck of the woods.

You wanna go up and smack a kangaroo in the face you go right ahead. Them blighters can total a car!

Anyway, as far as "ownership" of this site goes.

Ryan owns the site name, Ryan pays for the server, OS programs the game.

But consider this. Who really makes the game what it is?

The guy who pays the bills? The guy who does the programming?

Or the people who play it and make up the community?

Sure, you could say this game wouldn't exist if Ryan didn't pay the bills or OS didn't program the game, but it most certaintly wouldn't exist without the diverse group of people we have that play the game.

And their opinions matter too because they're as much as a part of this game as the guy who pays the bills and the guy who does the programming.

And I for one hate the thought of some of those people leaving, or being barred from enjoying this game all because of some silly little tags and off-site forums which can be easily replaced with IM conversations.

.op. wrote:

Goribus wrote:

.op. wrote:Honestly Goribus here are some things here. As long as they aren't making money off of the game then it is not stealing at all. Second technically Glyph was a great programmer brought in to help bring the game further along because Seibs was to buisy with other site matters to pay to close of attention with this. Technically it is both Seib's and Vir's game because both worked together at first to create it. Then Vir left.



To be honest here people I know you all are upset with what was a staple of the game (I am referring to both AWC and RDD members who are upset with this ruling) But bigger and better things can happen without off site boards in general. Yes it was fun to have these teams on the board when they were viable to the game, but honestly now they can be a detriment. Again as I said earlier I can see both sides of the arguement. Honestly we should be thinking to improve the game instead of arguing a point that makes these subfactions go in a negative light. Be positive and make suggestions to better the game is my suggestion.

I wouldn't be me if I as positive. Ask anyone. But as far as helping the game. Screw that. It's clear we're not wanted here. Again. For the third time this year alone. So why should I help the game? That is assuming I don't get banned now, and again assuming I don't get banned come Version 2. Because sooner or later I will get banned for not dropping the RDD and MiO sigs and tags. So really why should I give a **** anymore? Hell up til now I've actually been trying to restrain myself most of the time.

You all are wanted here. As part of a bigger thing and that is your actual Decepticon, pred, Maximal, and bot. Think of establishing your faction like you did the subgroups. That is all this action is wanting you to do.

I put my time and effort into helping to rebuild the RDD. As a Scout I was overjoyed to see my prospects join, even if I had no connection to them before hand. I'm not one to open up here publicly, mainly because the last time I did it was used as a joke by another member. The adminstration and moderators did jack **** about that. So when I feel like opening up, it's only around those few I can trust. The RDD isn't a subgroup to me. It's an extended family. And that is what it feels like is being threatened to be taken away.

Time and again we've fought to try to change the image of the RDD as the bastard children of HMW. In the end it didn't matter at all. Why? Because the mods and administrators are a bunch of funless bastards obsessed about what happened long ago. One of them is directly responsible for said Dark Tidings aren't you Alpha? No, we haven't been wanted here for a long time, and it's a shame. Love us or hate us, you have to admit. We make the game fun. And with so many integral players quiting or getting banned over this the fun of this game is dying. I plan to at least make my banning worthwhile.

Burn wrote: Anyway, as far as "ownership" of this site goes.

Ryan owns the site name, Ryan pays for the server, OS programs the game.

But consider this. Who really makes the game what it is?

The guy who pays the bills? The guy who does the programming?

Or the people who play it and make up the community?

Sure, you could say this game wouldn't exist if Ryan didn't pay the bills or OS didn't program the game, but it most certaintly wouldn't exist without the diverse group of people we have that play the game.

And their opinions matter too because they're as much as a part of this game as the guy who pays the bills and the guy who does the programming.

And I for one hate the thought of some of those people leaving, or being barred from enjoying this game all because of some silly little tags and off-site forums which can be easily replaced with IM conversations.

Because sometimes Burn. You have to stand up for what you believe is right, even if it means taking a ban for it.

In all honesty im not sure if im going to stay or not.
I am fine with not having sigs, avatars and tags even no mentioning of any subgroups on the boards but when you tell people you have to shut down a website because sometimes we discuss HMW there that is nuts. To tell the truth I don't go to the RDD website to talk about HWM I go there to bullshit with my friends and talk about things that are not allowed on here because either its not pg13 or it is considered spam and we were told to go to our own board and do that stuff.

whether or not I stay or not wont make much of a difference here but i will always consider myself a member of the RDD and if I end up staying I will now more likely just talk to people on msn where there is less bs and bullying tactics

Goribus wrote:

Burn wrote: Anyway, as far as "ownership" of this site goes.

Ryan owns the site name, Ryan pays for the server, OS programs the game.

But consider this. Who really makes the game what it is?

The guy who pays the bills? The guy who does the programming?

Or the people who play it and make up the community?

Sure, you could say this game wouldn't exist if Ryan didn't pay the bills or OS didn't program the game, but it most certaintly wouldn't exist without the diverse group of people we have that play the game.

And their opinions matter too because they're as much as a part of this game as the guy who pays the bills and the guy who does the programming.

And I for one hate the thought of some of those people leaving, or being barred from enjoying this game all because of some silly little tags and off-site forums which can be easily replaced with IM conversations.

Because sometimes Burn. You have to stand up for what you believe is right, even if it means taking a ban for it.

But you shouldn't need to take a stand.

That's my point. It's like we, the players, one of the integral parts of this game, are being ignored.

Then again, they could always shut the whole thing down.

Sometimes page views just ain't worth the hassle...

Burn wrote:

Goribus wrote:

Burn wrote: Anyway, as far as "ownership" of this site goes.

Ryan owns the site name, Ryan pays for the server, OS programs the game.

But consider this. Who really makes the game what it is?

The guy who pays the bills? The guy who does the programming?

Or the people who play it and make up the community?

Sure, you could say this game wouldn't exist if Ryan didn't pay the bills or OS didn't program the game, but it most certaintly wouldn't exist without the diverse group of people we have that play the game.

And their opinions matter too because they're as much as a part of this game as the guy who pays the bills and the guy who does the programming.

And I for one hate the thought of some of those people leaving, or being barred from enjoying this game all because of some silly little tags and off-site forums which can be easily replaced with IM conversations.

Because sometimes Burn. You have to stand up for what you believe is right, even if it means taking a ban for it.

But you shouldn't need to take a stand.

That's my point. It's like we, the players, one of the integral parts of this game, are being ignored.

Haven't we always been ignored?

Goribus wrote:

.op. wrote:

Goribus wrote:

.op. wrote:Honestly Goribus here are some things here. As long as they aren't making money off of the game then it is not stealing at all. Second technically Glyph was a great programmer brought in to help bring the game further along because Seibs was to buisy with other site matters to pay to close of attention with this. Technically it is both Seib's and Vir's game because both worked together at first to create it. Then Vir left.



To be honest here people I know you all are upset with what was a staple of the game (I am referring to both AWC and RDD members who are upset with this ruling) But bigger and better things can happen without off site boards in general. Yes it was fun to have these teams on the board when they were viable to the game, but honestly now they can be a detriment. Again as I said earlier I can see both sides of the arguement. Honestly we should be thinking to improve the game instead of arguing a point that makes these subfactions go in a negative light. Be positive and make suggestions to better the game is my suggestion.

I wouldn't be me if I as positive. Ask anyone. But as far as helping the game. Screw that. It's clear we're not wanted here. Again. For the third time this year alone. So why should I help the game? That is assuming I don't get banned now, and again assuming I don't get banned come Version 2. Because sooner or later I will get banned for not dropping the RDD and MiO sigs and tags. So really why should I give a **** anymore? Hell up til now I've actually been trying to restrain myself most of the time.

You all are wanted here. As part of a bigger thing and that is your actual Decepticon, pred, Maximal, and bot. Think of establishing your faction like you did the subgroups. That is all this action is wanting you to do.

I put my time and effort into helping to rebuild the RDD. As a Scout I was overjoyed to see my prospects join, even if I had no connection to them before hand. I'm not one to open up here publicly, mainly because the last time I did it was used as a joke by another member. The adminstration and moderators did jack **** about that. So when I feel like opening up, it's only around those few I can trust. The RDD isn't a subgroup to me. It's an extended family. And that is what it feels like is being threatened to be taken away.

Time and again we've fought to try to change the image of the RDD as the bastard children of HMW. In the end it didn't matter at all. Why? Because the mods and administrators are a bunch of funless bastards obsessed about what happened long ago. One of them is directly responsible for said Dark Tidings aren't you Alpha? No, we haven't been wanted here for a long time, and it's a shame. Love us or hate us, you have to admit. We make the game fun. And with so many integral players quiting or getting banned over this the fun of this game is dying. I plan to at least make my banning worthwhile.

I know what subgroups mean to some people Goribus, including yourself. That is something you can bring into that faction forum. A sense of a bigger family.

Also Goribus bringing up the past and blaming the mod that has taken the most heat for it just shows why they are going to get rid of it. Some people take things that have happened with this game to personally. Let it die.

My last thing to post here to make some of you see some sense to this is that this is the reason why they are getting rid of the subfactions. People bringing up the past, personally attacking mods for stuff that happened in the past, causing more bad on the boards then they are causing good. Most of the people that do that are the subgroups (I am refering to both)It is time for a new light and that is helping the new factions grow.

My clansmen are my friends. I wouldn't be anywhere freaking near where I am had it not been for them. WHy not leave us clanners be and non clanners can well, stay solo. I've never held anything against people who didn't join clans so why the hell not give us the same treatment and leave us be?

Think everyone should just wait awhile and see if this really goes through or not. Sooner or later they have to realize they can't enforce outside the site its just impossible unless the entire staff are all master hackers or something.

On the other hand we all got to compromise, subfactions could exist as long as the bs, drama, etc doesn't come back here. Once it comes here then they have the right to enforce the rules. I'm sure thats a more logical way to approach it.

Of course who wants to follow logic.

.op. wrote:That is something you can bring into that faction forum. A sense of a bigger family.

No. No you cant. As has been repeadedly pointed out, most people cannot handle the sheer size of the (so called) comunity, especilly on this part fo the forums.

The subfactions are, if anything, the BEST rout towards achiving the wanted comunity, fair play and general comradery.

.op. wrote:Also Goribus bringing up the past and blaming the mod that has taken the most heat for it just shows why they are going to get rid of it. Some people take things that have happened with this game to personally. Let it die.

I am no fan of AS, but you are right, this is not the way to go.

.op. wrote:My last thing to post here to make some of you see some sense to this is that this is the reason why they are getting rid of the subfactions. People bringing up the past, personally attacking mods for stuff that happened in the past, causing more bad on the boards then they are causing good. Most of the people that do that are the subgroups (I am refering to both)It is time for a new light and that is helping the new factions grow.

And do you know why this happens? Becuase we get attacked. When an animal gets attacked, it attacks back. Whilst what has been said by some is either unfair or downright uncalled for, the targets they have chose are often those who attacked first.

ALL the faction related drama that has taken place since I joined the RDD (12th July 06) has been as a result of someone not affiliated with a faction and who is in a position of power attackingthose who are in a subfaction.

Apart from this particular case, that someone has been the same someone everytime.

And finally:

RID_reborn wrote:My clansmen are my friends.

.op. wrote:
Also Goribus bringing up the past and blaming the mod that has taken the most heat for it just shows why they are going to get rid of it. Some people take things that have happened with this game to personally. Let it die.

Actually, I was the one to bring that up. Goribus chose to blame AS, which was uncool, but I brought it up.

All of you are quick to bring up the past as a reason to ban factions...But when it comes to bringing up the reason it all started....NO! NO! DON"T TALK ABOUT THAT! I CAN"T HEAR YOU! MAKE THEM STOP!

Hypocrites on every level. Top to bottom. I may not be RDD, but I say to them now:

"Do not go gently into that good night..."

Redimus wrote:The RDD helped me understand the game, meet other players, gain confidence to speak on HMWGD and generally enjoy the game in a way I wasnt before.

I'm going to have to agree here, I don't get along well with large groups, I'm much more comfortable with a small group of like-minded individuals. I've been visiting seibs for a while, never bothered with creating a profile because I wasn't going to post. Found the game and decided to give it a try but still extremely wary of posting. I may not know many people in the RDD but the few that I've talked to have been really nice and helped me gain enough confidence to post a little on here, even if I never did feel welcome here.

I guess the ironic thing is I needed the RDD because I didn't feel I was welcome here, and now that I am in the RDD, I went from feeling I'm not welcome here to really being not welcome here.

MN12ShadowDragon wrote:

Redimus wrote:The RDD helped me understand the game, meet other players, gain confidence to speak on HMWGD and generally enjoy the game in a way I wasnt before.

I'm going to have to agree here, I don't get along well with large groups, I'm much more comfortable with a small group of like-minded individuals. I've been visiting seibs for a while, never bothered with creating a profile because I wasn't going to post. Found the game and decided to give it a try but still extremely wary of posting. I may not know many people in the RDD but the few that I've talked to have been really nice and helped me gain enough confidence to post a little on here, even if I never did feel welcome here.

I guess the ironic thing is I needed the RDD because I didn't feel I was welcome here, and now that I am in the RDD, I went from feeling I'm not welcome here to really being not welcome here.

This is what I believe OS wants the Factions to become smaller groups where people can feel comfortable posting. I myself have never been very comfortable posting but lately have come out of my shell and begun to post more frequently. That is due in some small part to the Iacon Forum which has slowly turned into that smaller group setting (being as that there aren't as many posters as there are players in HMW)

Its hard for new players to just jump in and click with established friends and players. It was for me, but with the development of Iacon I now feel more comfortable to come out here in GD and post.

Rather than think of the sub factions going away, think of them being integrated with the 4 new factions and use the knowledge that everyone has gained from them to make those faction forums a new, close-knit, smaller faction family. I know I'm going to try my best to and to help as many new players as possible.

Knight Hawk wrote:This is what I believe OS wants the Factions to become smaller groups where people can feel comfortable posting.

Even half of Darkmount seems way to big for me to be comfortable in for the time being, and taking/forcing away the people I do feel comfortable with is most certainly not going to make me feel more comfortable.

I guess I'm really glad I couldn't find a donate button last week when I was going to donate to the site if this is how I'm going to be treated I certainly don't want to give them any money just to treat me like I'm a pest.

Knight Hawk wrote:This is what I believe OS wants the Factions to become smaller groups where people can feel comfortable posting.

But are they going to be able to discuss Transformer related stuff in this small group?

Are they going to be able to discuss personal matters with people they know and trust?

Will people be able to talk about the latest episode of Heroes and not have their opinions get lost amongst all the other people replying?

THAT is the point people are trying to make. Those off-site forums aren't just about HMW. It's about Transformers and all sorts of other stuff. Yeah, we have that here on Seibertron.com as well, but a lot of people are UNCOMFORTABLE trying to get their thoughts and opinions across when a few dozen others are trying to do the same thing.

And if that point is known and being ignored, then I can't help but wonder if this is a bad attempt to force people to join in other parts of Seibertron.com

It didn't work years ago and it's not going to work now. You simply cannot tell a person where they can and cannot converse. Threatening them with bans just makes it even more the worse.

So come on ... disallow the sub-factions if you have to, just don't punish people for it. They've done nothing wrong.

Burn wrote:

Knight Hawk wrote:This is what I believe OS wants the Factions to become smaller groups where people can feel comfortable posting.

But are they going to be able to discuss Transformer related stuff in this small group?

Are they going to be able to discuss personal matters with people they know and trust?

Will people be able to talk about the latest episode of Heroes and not have their opinions get lost amongst all the other people replying?

I have no problem voicing my opinion and it not getting lost in Iacon Forum, and yes any player should be able to chat about whatever they wish there. Then gaining enough courage they could post out here if they wish. Yes, out here i have had my opinion drowned, but in Iacon it hasn't been and with 2 new factions dividing the numbers, more voices will get heard. Making smaller groups more close knit.

What this should be considered is an attempt to get players to unite with their faction like they would their sub faction, as I am to understand teamwork, faction unity, and faction communication are going to be unavoidable in V2. Sufactions are only going to hurt the factions that wish them to remain as their would only be sub-faction teamwork, sub-faction unity, and sub-faction communication, dividing the faction in two and making it impossible to play.

All in all no one knows what the face of the forums and game will look like in V2 and people already want to quit. That is confusing to me?

Knight Hawk wrote:All in all no one knows what the face of the forums and game will look like in V2 and people already want to quit. That is confusing to me?

Probably because you're completely missing the point.

If members of those sub-factions want to discuss Heroes, they can't do it in the faction forums. Those forums are going to ONLY be for HMW related discussions.

For non-HMW discussions they have three choices. Go to the appropriate sub-forums where they may not feel comfortable, don't discuss it at all, or go off-site to a place where they feel comfortable and be banned just for going there.

Unless i've misinterpretted things incorrectly, that seems how it'll be. Anyone care to clarify or should I take this discussion off-site to the IM world where people are apparently getting answers?

Knight Hawk wrote:Sufactions are only going to hurt the factions that wish them to remain as their would only be sub-faction teamwork, sub-faction unity, and sub-faction communication, dividing the faction in two and making it impossible to play.

I don't know about Iacon, but in Darkmount RDD members are LEADING some very nifty teamwork, unity & communications for the whole main faction, I don't see why this will change in V2, at least not after the dust settles and those that remain have figured out what's what.

Knight Hawk wrote:All in all no one knows what the face of the forums and game will look like in V2 and people already want to quit. That is confusing to me?

To some people it's either quit or be banned. I'm way to new to be anything to anyone here, but how would you like if someone came along and told you if you didn't stop being proud of your friends (and talking to your friends on any other forum in the world), whom you really enjoyed and maybe the only reason keeping you coming that you would be banned, what other choice do you have?

Would you choose to betray friends you've had for years just to play a game? To me that's where it sounds like the people who are quitting are coming from.

OS certainly has the right to do whatever he wants, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do though.

I'm all for stopping cheating. But there's got to be a better way than ruining the enjoyment of innocent people who are just trying to have fun.

MN12ShadowDragon wrote:I'm way to new to be anything to anyone here

You're the guy who has some funny letters and numbers before your name ... no idea what it's about though. I notice things like that. I really should be doing some work.

Burn wrote:

Knight Hawk wrote:All in all no one knows what the face of the forums and game will look like in V2 and people already want to quit. That is confusing to me?

Probably because you're completely missing the point.

If members of those sub-factions want to discuss Heroes, they can't do it in the faction forums. Those forums are going to ONLY be for HMW related discussions.

Why. As far as I know there will be a whole new look to the faction forums that As I Understood (I may be incorrect here) would make each faction forum into its own divided forum so that there could be a place for friendly banter about whatever, a lace for war discussion, etc.....

But people are diving off the deep end without knowing whats in store. I could see it if they knew what was in the works, but honestly i think that the only person that does is OS.

Then why not tell us?

Why instead of dropping these rules the rest of the plans for the forums weren't dropped as well?

Why give out on piece of info that he knew would create a shitstorm when other info could have been given out that could have prevented it?

Simple fact ... the faction forums will be HMW-related only. You want to talk about the latest TF figure? Go to the TF Toys Forum. Latest IDW comic? Comics and Cartoons forum. Latest episode of Heroes? GD.

Unless that's not how things are going to work in which case NOW would be a great time for someone in charge to chime in and set the record straight.

Burn wrote:Simple fact ... the faction forums will be HMW-related only. You want to talk about the latest TF figure? Go to the TF Toys Forum. Latest IDW comic? Comics and Cartoons forum. Latest episode of Heroes? GD.

Unless that's not how things are going to work in which case NOW would be a great time for someone in charge to chime in and set the record straight.

When the Iacon Forum opened:

Mkall wrote:Modding in here will be a little less restrictive than the other forums, however blatant spamming and flaming will still be dealt with accordingly

I've stuck by that, and for my part plan to stick by that with regards to the subfaction forums. If someone posted an off topic thread in the Iacon Forum now I might provide them with a link to a similar thread elsewhere on the site by way of encouraging them to 'get out of the house' but I wouldn't lock the topic or move it. If nothing else, it pertains to HMW in that such off-topic conversation creates in-group cohesion, which is a valuable component of team-work, which you guys will need lots of in v2.

It's a frustrating thing you know. People complain about a specific problem. We listen, find it's something we can bend on, and take action to accomodate them. And yet apparently no one has noticed.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Burn wrote:Then why not tell us?

Why instead of dropping these rules the rest of the plans for the forums weren't dropped as well?

Why give out on piece of info that he knew would create a shitstorm when other info could have been given out that could have prevented it?

Probably because OS is wiser than I am. He probably realizes that every word he says, no matter how optimistic or positive it may intended to be, will somehow get thrown back in his face by someone on this board.

The more you say, the more opportunities people have to twist your words into something they were never meant to be, and humiliate and frustrate you with them. And even worse, if you promise something that gets delayed for one reason or another, or doesn't work as well as you'd hoped - then really nasty things get said about you.

Logically then, the natural response is to simply say as little as possible, to relay only the information that is absolutely necessary and nothing more, because anything else is just more rope for someone to hang you by.

That would be my reasoning if I were him anyway.

Edit: Oh, additionally, and this may seem petty, but most people like praise when they've done good work or had good ideas. When this board is, hell, when people in general are presented with a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, they tend to focus on the bad. Ergo, if I were OS, I'd probably be inclined to save the good news for some time when it wouldn't be ignored.

Again, that's all speculation based on personal experience. OS remains an eccentric enigma to me as well as to you all.

Yeah but let me put it to you like this Caelus.

In the faction forums are we going to be allowed to discuss the latest TF figure? The latest episode of some tv show? Anything not HMW-related?

Leaving a thread open but pointing people to a similar discussion in another sub-forum is one thing, but you know the history of this site, how long do you think that's going to last before that rule is changed as well and the faction forums become HMW-dedicated?

Just how much leniency is going to be shown when you have a thread for Heroes, a thread for Dr Who, a thread for the greatness of the G1 Stalker figure, a thread for how bloody awful the New Avengers/Transformers cross-over is. I for one can't see such a thing being permitted across four sub-forums.

This is why people are up in arms and willing to quit, why they feel unwanted. I'm not a member of any sub-faction but even I can see it's like you're trying to herd people like cattle, and then threatening to ban people if they don't comply like good cows.

Can't there be some compromise like simply not allowing any mention of sub-factions on the forums and letting people keep their tags and their off-site forums?

Or even resurrect my old idea for clans. People don't want to JUST be Autobots or Decepticons or Predacons or Maximals, they want to be able to show off their friendship and comraderie as well, not be herded together with the rest of the cows.

In my opinion sub-factions/clans/guilds are nothing but a game-breaking series of disasters waiting to happen. They breed an 'us-vs.-them' mentallity among the playerbase and usually attempt to hijack the game and turn it into their private little 'I'm better than you' contest between two or more rival groups. Now I know this is a competetive game and to some extent there should be 'us-vs.-them' situations in the game itself. But clans create this mentallity outside of the game area within the player community itself. Soon two or more factions are slinging mud at each other and throwing around egos so huge they regularly butt heads with game/site staff. And when the game staff decides to hold the line with them, they launch a smear campaign decrying them for doing their jobs.

And in the end it is the average players, the lion's share of the playerbase, that suffer. Soon they can not gain the attention of an admin. because they are dealing with the latest clan temper tantrum. They find that the great things to do are made more and more difficult or fine-tuned so that the clan members whom are usually powergamers of the worst sort are the only ones who can reliably enjoy those things. Before too long the playerbase at large begins to splinter and dissappear into the ether looking for a game that has not been set upon by clans/guilds.

So you will find I have no sympathy for the clans/guilds themselves. It will not be a pain-free process for me however. As with any clan it is made up of about 20% jack@$$es, 40% butt-kissers, and 40% decent people. People who either joined when the clan was formed under noble pretenses some time ago or who enjoyed playing with others willing to coordinate their efforts in-game. Those players have my sympathy. I hope you can move on and help your less experianced fellow commanders enjoy the game more.