The Energon Pub

Okay, then find me something, ANYTHING, that proves that Transformers have reproductive organs.

I tell ya, in the 23 years Transformers has been around, I don't think they've EVER shown anything suggesting Transformers have reproductive organs.

slycherrychunks wrote:
Oh and Tramp, I have these eps on DVD. I'm still waiting for you to post these pics of Mooracer, Powerglide, Inferno and Firestar all hugging. They must've been edited out of my version.
Either you post these screeshots or you admit that the circular logic you use to justify your arguments has no basis in reality.

Everything you have posted about transformers in this topic is speculation, assumption or, for want of a better term fanwank.

Man talk about being a total jerk about this. No there is no shot of them cuddling, but then again, is there any shots of Nightbird and Megatron cuddling? And yet, just about everyone in the whole world agrees that Megatron has the hots for Nightbird. So no, there are no shots, but does there need to be? Again we come into this whole issue of genders and how males and females must interact. Listen to the words that Prime and Elita use, how they look at one another. The others might not cuddle, but that's also because maybe they're not all the cuddling type. Powerglide is Mr.Cool, and Moon Racer has a certain sweet girl thing, but she also likes looking cool. Firestar and Inferno are not the cuddle type. Besides, must one see all of them cuddling to confirm that they love one another? I mean give me a break, by this standered that means that you have to see freaking Prime and Elita one kissing, yet everyone clearly can see that they care about one another.

Wrong, not everything is spectuative. It has been shown in cannon, on the show and in other works that there is ties to the idea that Transformers have families and can, most likely, in ways that humans proably can't understand yet, reproduce. And please don't give me that garbage about the factories and and such. The reason for femme Transformers, in show, is quiet simple. Like all races there are going to be two sexes.

If you're going to argue about the whole issue of characters having gender, why then even Make Prime and co male in the first place. Why not give them none clearly male voices? Why have them interested in human females, or for that matter, why even have inuendos about sexual relations. Why we never see femmbots in the show all that much is becuase, again, this show was targeted for a male audience. Therefore you didn't really see females of any race, at all, until the second season.

Why is that, due largely to the fact that Hasbro realized that girls were watching the show, and they wanted to give them figures to root for as well. Thus you have femme bots. As for reasons why there are so few, did anyone ever stop to think that possibly one reason why is becuase the Quintesson destroyed them possibly to put the male robots in line and keep them from making more robots. Thus keeping them under the control of the Quintessons?

It's a typical history lesson, you want population to stay under control, you kill the females. Cons weren't the ones to do it becuase Megatron shows feelings towards Nightbird. And please, if anyone argues that his lines in that show were anything but a guy being turned on by a hot girl, then you are just fooling yourselves.

EDIT: science doesnt apply to fictional animated cartoon characters. I can argue with science as much as I like

Since when? Not all science fiction in cartoons work, but when they're supposed to be kept true to life, then there are some things that stay true to them. Example, the Transformers are wounded when hit, they do get hurt when knocked around, and by the time the second season came on, Autobots could not fly. There are some elements that might not apply, but to say they all don't, that's just pushing it. By your logic then it would be fine for a laser blast to tickle, and for Prime to float in the air.

Firstly they wouldn't show that they have such organs becuase, again, kids show. Beast Machines showed something pretty dang close to it. Black Arachinia and Silverbolt mingling sparks.

And do they have to have the same kind we do? Do frogs or other creatures in zoological classes? Also then tell me why it hurt for Dinobot to be shot between the legs? Or for that matter why some Transfomers seem to have codpeices?

And again! Can we please go back on subject?

Night Striker wrote:Firstly they wouldn't show that they have such organs becuase, again, kids show. Beast Machines showed something pretty dang close to it. Black Arachinia and Silverbolt mingling sparks.

And do they have to have the same kind we do? Do frogs or other creatures in zoological classes? Also then tell me why it hurt for Dinobot to be shot between the legs? Or for that matter why some Transfomers seem to have codpeices?

And again! Can we please go back on subject?

Not only that, but Hienlad does have "parts" he sits on them.

Alright guys and gals lets get this topic back on track:

babylon queen's original topic wrote:TRansformers are mostly boy toys but since they do have fembots .Shouldn't HAsbro have transformers for girls? They can have a line with only female transformers. Have actually a boy or two in the line even though they are really needed. The fembots don't need to compete or impress them to reproduce only to impress or companionship. They should have female leaders as well.

This thread is not here to argue about the reproductive style of Transformers. (Which if I recall in "Five Faces of the Darkside" shows the Transformers being CONSTRUCTED). Please lets get back to the original topic at hand.

NIght Striker wrote:Demolisher, you keep wanting G1 proof it seems, as in, in show. Well here are some to show that there is something to the idea that there is biological workings in the transformers. This taken from Teletran one's webpage, A bio-circuit is a component of Transformer anatomy, though its function is not known. Generation 1 cartoon continuity
After Starscream almost accidentally destroyed the Solar Needle, Megatron threatened to permanently deactivate his bio-circuits.

OK, is there a reason everyone arguing against me can't seem to get my bloody name right? DAMOLISHER. DAMOLISHER. DA-MO-LISH-ER. Jesus, it's not hard to get right. And it disturbs me that this many people don't know a robot when they see one. Oh, and to the mods: This all stemmed from the original post, where Babylon Queen CORRECTLY STATED female robots can't reproduce.

OH, and PS, Tramp, nothing points to them reproducing. They're sentient robots. They tagline, once again ROBOTS IN DISGUISE. Definition of robot: An Autonomous MACHINE! And so some animals have genitalia? Wow, they're called Alt modes. Scattershot from G1 has a cannon that looks like a schlong if you turn his torso the wrong way. Doesn't mean he uses it when he goes out drinking with the other Technobots and meets a woman.

I wonder if Hasbro might consider now making more fembots for their toyline? It would be nice to have more variety rather then the very few we have compared to the manbots. I wonder what they should look like? Maybe Hasbro could have a contest for fans to design some new fembots, just so through this "cross pollination" we have more variety in appearance.

Damolisher wrote:

NIght Striker wrote:Demolisher, you keep wanting G1 proof it seems, as in, in show. Well here are some to show that there is something to the idea that there is biological workings in the transformers. This taken from Teletran one's webpage, A bio-circuit is a component of Transformer anatomy, though its function is not known. Generation 1 cartoon continuity
After Starscream almost accidentally destroyed the Solar Needle, Megatron threatened to permanently deactivate his bio-circuits.

OK, is there a reason everyone arguing against me can't seem to get my bloody name right? DAMOLISHER. DAMOLISHER. DA-MO-LISH-ER. Jesus, it's not hard to get right. And it disturbs me that this many people don't know a robot when they see one. Oh, and to the mods: This all stemmed from the original post, where Babylon Queen CORRECTLY STATED female robots can't reproduce.

OH, and PS, Tramp, nothing points to them reproducing. They're sentient robots. They tagline, once again ROBOTS IN DISGUISE. Definition of robot: An Autonomous MACHINE! And so some animals have genitalia? Wow, they're called Alt modes. Scattershot from G1 has a cannon that looks like a schlong if you turn his torso the wrong way. Doesn't mean he uses it when he goes out drinking with the other Technobots and meets a woman.

Damolisher, a lot point to it if you look at all the evidence, and I'm not the only one who sees it.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if Hasbro might consider now making more fembots for their toyline? It would be nice to have more variety rather then the very few we have compared to the manbots. I wonder what they should look like? Maybe Hasbro could have a contest for fans to design some new fembots, just so through this "cross pollination" we have more variety in appearance.

"cross Pollenation

It would be great if we saw a lot more fems. Too bad they can't use the names Moonracer and Firestar anymore. It would be really great to see them as toys too.

For the record, Damolisher, and sorry about spelling your name wrong, when I get worked up about something I will type and not think of spelling names right, I do know a robot when I see one. There are quiet a number of versions of robots, everthing from Evas (yes they are considered robots) to Gundams, to the various types of bots that show up in futuristic shows. I never said that he used his cannon for that, all I said was that there were parts in the transformers that seem to imply that they do indeed reproduce. What way this is done, I don't know. But the way you keep talking down about it, as if it's a bad thing to even think about it, well it is getting me rather annoyed.

For the record, if it is just construction and you need sigma to give the transfomers life, then what about the Junkions? These bots have no computer on their planet, so you can't say it's just construction that created them. So where did they come from? How is it that there were so many of them, and I can cite at least one offical marriage. Nancy and Wreck-Gar, in the Big Broadcast of 2006, Nancy is shown to be in the role of the wife. She gets blown apart and pulls herself back together.

Air Commander Starscream, I keep trying to get back on topic, but everyone seems to want to keep arguing with Tramp over this. Personally I find it tiring. Those of you arguing that they're just robots are not going to convince those of us that believe that Cybertronians are nothing more then Robots who are like C3PO, and we are not going to convince you that they are more intricate then just machines that were built by the Quintessons. So honestly why not drop this argument, at the start Tramp said, lets keep this friendly, and so far this has degraded down to something less then friendly in my opinion.

So can we please get back to the main topic of this thing? Or can we close this one and, I humbly ask Starscream to reopen this topic with the question that was first posted and we can take it from there about the idea of a girls transformers line?

Does that sound fair?

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if Hasbro might consider now making more fembots for their toyline? It would be nice to have more variety rather then the very few we have compared to the manbots. I wonder what they should look like? Maybe Hasbro could have a contest for fans to design some new fembots, just so through this "cross pollination" we have more variety in appearance.

"cross Pollenation

It would be great if we saw a lot more fems. Too bad they can't use the names Moonracer and Firestar anymore. It would be really great to see them as toys too.

I really wish they would, but it comes down to the consumers. Most buyers are supposedly boys, or boys parents, and still in this day and age if a guy is seen with a transformer she's looked at like she's a total geek or something. Then the other factor is that Hasbro would have to deal with toylines like "Bratz" and "Barbie" not to mention the whole "My little Pony" and other such toys aimed for girls.

Heh, what might work is a version of My little transformers. A bunch of robots disguised as my little ponies.

Seriously though, I have to agree that there should be more. The contest idea is great! They did that for the starwars toys, why not transformers. Thing is that consumers will need females that would be considered up there with Optimus Prime. Personally I would love to see a show with maybe the fembots on Cybertron after events with Alpha Trion to see what they were doing to Shockwave.

And why did they loose the liscene to Moon Racer and Fire Star? Can't they do what they did with Jazz and Rachet. Autobot Jazz and Autobot Rachet on the packages? I mean it would be cool to have a few Deceptigals around other then the offical Black Arachinia and a female Night bird would be nice as a seeker, or some sort of stealth cycle. [/quote]

Night Striker wrote:

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if Hasbro might consider now making more fembots for their toyline? It would be nice to have more variety rather then the very few we have compared to the manbots. I wonder what they should look like? Maybe Hasbro could have a contest for fans to design some new fembots, just so through this "cross pollination" we have more variety in appearance.

"cross Pollenation

It would be great if we saw a lot more fems. Too bad they can't use the names Moonracer and Firestar anymore. It would be really great to see them as toys too.

I really wish they would, but it comes down to the consumers. Most buyers are supposedly boys, or boys parents, and still in this day and age if a guy is seen with a transformer she's looked at like she's a total geek or something. Then the other factor is that Hasbro would have to deal with toylines like "Bratz" and "Barbie" not to mention the whole "My little Pony" and other such toys aimed for girls.

Heh, what might work is a version of My little transformers. A bunch of robots disguised as my little ponies.

Seriously though, I have to agree that there should be more. The contest idea is great! They did that for the starwars toys, why not transformers. Thing is that consumers will need females that would be considered up there with Optimus Prime. Personally I would love to see a show with maybe the fembots on Cybertron after events with Alpha Trion to see what they were doing to Shockwave.

And why did they loose the liscene to Moon Racer and Fire Star? Can't they do what they did with Jazz and Rachet. Autobot Jazz and Autobot Rachet on the packages? I mean it would be cool to have a few Deceptigals around other then the offical Black Arachinia and a female Night bird would be nice as a seeker, or some sort of stealth cycle.

It had to do with trademark issues. The names "Moonracer" and "Firestar" were trademarked by other companies. This was doscussed two years ago when they were working on the BotCon boxed set that year. the name Moonracer is trademarked for the Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer toys because it is also the name of "King Moonracer" from the Island of Misfit Toys. The name "Firestar" is owned by Marvel. It's the name of a super heroine, whith pyrokinetic powers.

One that they haven't used in a while, as I recall for Marvel's Firestar, I think they may have even killed her off. As for Moonracer, it's rather sad that the name can't be used. I suppose that they could convert the name to something like Firestar's Flareup, though what that could be...I'm not sure.

Interestingly, I wonder why it is that fans seem okay with the idea of the Autobots even considering themself to be male, if they don't like the idea of fembots in general. I wonder if its something to do with the fear of having girls putting makeup on their transformers toys and calling it a doll rather then an action figure.

Night Striker wrote:One that they haven't used in a while, as I recall for Marvel's Firestar, I think they may have even killed her off. As for Moonracer, it's rather sad that the name can't be used. I suppose that they could convert the name to something like Firestar's Flareup, though what that could be...I'm not sure.

Interestingly, I wonder why it is that fans seem okay with the idea of the Autobots even considering themself to be male, if they don't like the idea of fembots in general. I wonder if its something to do with the fear of having girls putting makeup on their transformers toys and calling it a doll rather then an action figure.

I couldn't tall you about that last bit. But for BotCon. They were originally going to use the name Moonracer for the figure that eventually became Chromia. If you look at the colors hand head sculpt, both are very remeniscent of Moonracer. The problem came very late in the game; to late to change the colors or head sculpt. I agree they should have done like the issue with the name Firestar which became a character named Flare-up (different character, simialr name), or how Outback literally became Fallback (same character, new but similar name), and use a similar name.

Me, I went and made my own Moonracer, Chromia and Elita-1 (who I have plans to re-do campletely), and I want to build Firestar. There is a thread in the Kitbash forum with them and one with some Decepticon fems I did. Check them out if you haven't already. There is a link earlier in this thread to both kitbash threads.

I saw and I thought that they were very well done.

Out of curiosity, if there were a show with female transformers who would their opposition be? If not Shockwave then whom?

Night Striker wrote:I saw and I thought that they were very well done.

Out of curiosity, if there were a show with female transformers who would their opposition be? If not Shockwave then whom?

If it were me doing it? the "cons would be Nightbird reborn as a Seeker and her subordinates the "Furies", Discord, Ferocity, and Malice.

I am making a custom female tf repaint for my fiancee. It's the classics devy repainted into black, purple and pink. So far her name is Mrs Devy but the princess may come up with another one..

I don't see a need for girly TFs. My daughter plays with the normal ones just fine. IN fact, Optimus Prime is her absolute favorite.

If they did make a girly TF line, more than likely all they'd do is thrown on the sterotypical feminist, valley girl, mall girl, princess, or girly girl personalities typically seen in...well, pretty much anything aimed at young girls.

Can you imagine the femmbots coming with a pink metroplex fairytale castle?

There's also a good historical marker for something like this: She-ra. The line flopped. In the cartoon, they stripped the series of She-ra's bad guys & replaced them with MOTU's evil Horde. Spin-off toylines aimed at girls have never worked very well.

& Tramp...all your supposed "life laws" state is that "living organisms" have to be able to reproduce, it dosen't say how. For transformers, it is factories, or from Primus. You can argue this all you want, but despite the superficial romances that are really nothing more than implied behavior...not only did they show the Autobots & Decpeticons being constructed in factories, but with the Airealbots & the Stunticons, particularly the former, they showed the whole process from using scraps from old spaceships to build their bodies to bringing them to Vector Sigma to recieve their personalities. IN Armada Starscream remarks how he was taken directly from the factory & put into one of Megatron's armies. & as you've stated earlier...Simon Furman, the man even Hasbro considers to be the end-all for all TF mythology, says it dosen't happen.

Femmbots are a robot design, & possibly a personality design, but they have no purpose other than that.

Please keep in mind people that ALL Transformers are "genderless." Why some CHOOSE to develop a female persona is up for debate. It's not like the "fembots" fall in love and make little Transformer "babies." In the mythos, a Transformer simply chooses what to be as simply as they choose whether they are an Autobot or Decepticon (we've some jump fence both way).

I am all for women/girls, loving transformers, but I think they like them for what they are... All in all, they dont need a special brand or branch just for girls. A good, yet funny example is this... Some guys collect Barbies, but you dont see Mattel developing a Barbie product for males.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:I don't see a need for girly TFs. My daughter plays with the normal ones just fine. IN fact, Optimus Prime is her absolute favorite.

If they did make a girly TF line, more than likely all they'd do is thrown on the sterotypical feminist, valley girl, mall girl, princess, or girly girl personalities typically seen in...well, pretty much anything aimed at young girls.

Can you imagine the femmbots coming with a pink metroplex fairytale castle?

There's also a good historical marker for something like this: She-ra. The line flopped. In the cartoon, they stripped the series of She-ra's bad guys & replaced them with MOTU's evil Horde. Spin-off toylines aimed at girls have never worked very well.

& Tramp...all your supposed "life laws" state is that "living organisms" have to be able to reproduce, it dosen't say how. For transformers, it is factories, or from Primus. You can argue this all you want, but despite the superficial romances that are really nothing more than implied behavior...not only did they show the Autobots & Decpeticons being constructed in factories, but with the Airealbots & the Stunticons, particularly the former, they showed the whole process from using scraps from old spaceships to build their bodies to bringing them to Vector Sigma to recieve their personalities. IN Armada Starscream remarks how he was taken directly from the factory & put into one of Megatron's armies. & as you've stated earlier...Simon Furman, the man even Hasbro considers to be the end-all for all TF mythology, says it dosen't happen.

Femmbots are a robot design, & possibly a personality design, but they have no purpose other than that.

Actually, Nemesis, yes it does say how: All life forms must be able to reproduce through autpoietic means. That means self replicating. Bulding in a factory is allopoietic—creating from outside the self. In other words, life forms must be able to bring forth offsprimg from their own bodies. It's called procreation, the act of begetting offspring. Life begets life. and that takes two forms, asexual or sexual reproduction. All life with genders are sexually reproducing. Asexual life forms have no need for genders.

On top of that, TF canon also states the building protoforms and imbuing them with a spark is not the only possible method of creating new Cybertronians. This is clearly stated in TF More than Meets the Eye #8. The use of protoforms is most commonly used, most likely because there are so few females that natural reproduction is not enough to maintain a population. Arcee's bio itself says femmes are extremely rare for some unknown reason.

Actually, Nemesis, yes it does say how: All life forms must be able to reproduce through autpoietic means. That means self replicating. Bulding in a factory is allopoietic—creating from outside the self. In other words, life forms must be able to bring forth offsprimg from their own bodies. It's called procreation, the act of begetting offspring. Life begets life. and that takes two forms, asexual or sexual reproduction. All life with genders are sexually reproducing. Asexual life forms have no need for genders.

Oh, well excuse me.

Anyway, the point is in the TF lore...some of the original TF lore before other people got ahold of it & started coming up with their own excuses for why they were considered "alive"....they were built in factories. The background of the quintessons in the first few episodes of season 3 showed the factories they were built in, explained that they were built..commercial & military robots, & that they developed sentience through processing evolution, & thus "alive". Besides what would be the point of procreation when a robot can be simply built & then imputed with life? Kinda defeats the purpose, don't you think?

Oh, & BTW....you talked earlier about Star Trek as an example of other sci-fi series that defined inorganic life. Correct me if I'm wrong(cause I know you will, wether I am or not) But as I recall they had an episode of TNG where it came into question as to whether or not Data, being simply wires & electronics, albeit highly advanced ones, was alive & therefore not property that could be handled as such, & at the end I believe it was stated that sentience was all that was required to determine life or not, & it was apparent that he was aware of his existance, he was indeed alive.
& there is still the Alien example.

^Thats a good point.

Data created his daughter "Lal". Clearly, androids have genders but do not reproduce sexually.

Game, set and match Nemesis Cyberplex.

On that note...a pretty good one I might add, Thanks for your kind words, slycherrychunks...I just figured out what this "more than meets the eye #8" is, not being familiar with the comics in general....& all it really is is an obscure one-shot comic that allegedly is an encyclopedia for TF mythos....an encyclopedia that Dreamwave themselves ignored when making later comics, & has been openly noted as being basically nothing more than an overly elaborate somehow liscensed fanfic. There is absolutely nothing "cannon" about it outside of the Dreamwave comic universe, & even then it isn't really even considered cannon.

So then we establish that femlae TFs are simply for asthetic purposes.......& even then they really only exist because writers back in G1 were told they need to come up with something that counterbalanced genderless yet masculine robots because they weren't PC.

"And Nemesis Cyberplex with a devastating uppercut to Tramp which leaves his argument with absolutely no legs to stand on!"

And just outta curiosity, Tramp, why are you allowed to use things such as Star Trek, which features a mainly HUMAN cast, and yet you just shrugged off my Red Dwarf reference? One's comedy and the other is sci-fi? Well then Transformers must fall into the same category of disregard, since it's a cartoon?

And seriously, you would be the most failingist lawyer in all the land. You keep using the same lame defense every time someone successfully argues your point. Every time someone else mentions how they're SHOWN to BUILT, and not BORN, you keep hitting back with
"Well, the laws of life, blah, blah, blah, and you need reproduction, blah, blah, blah, and..." SHUT UP, ALREADY! You're like a broken freakin' record!

Until you can prove to us in some way OTHER than the MTMTE comics, or some obscure Japanese Manga which holds no relevance to any storyline outside of Japan, through footage, or other such means that Transformers can reproduce AT ALL, without needing to dictate to us your so-called laws of life (Which only APPLY TO ORGANIC CREATURES, NOT ROBOTS OR ANDROIDS), then your argument WILL HOLD MERIT. Until then, all you've got is hearsay and theory with no ground.

^Probably the same reason he cites obscure japanese mangas and a couple of poorly written cartoon episodes as proof of his theories whilst completely ignoring the things that were explicitly stated in Key To Vector Sigma and G2.

I was actually just reading up on this topic on another forum - it seems fandom really devided on the subject. Robot genders and robot sex is certainly plausible, but with a mechanical race like the transformers it just isn't necessary. It all boils down to personal preference really.

Tramp just thinks he has all the answers though. If I've come across as hostile in this discussion then it's only because I find his attitude and 'last laugh' mentality entirely irksome. That, and his refusal to admit that he's wrong (in particular about powerglide, inferno, firestar and moonracer hugging - which just never happened no matter which way you look at it, although his alt-account, Night Striker did address this)

I'm sure he'll have a real good answer to the Mr Data thing though.

double post what omg ban plz