The Energon Pub

If Tfs are not alive, then there is no immorality in killing them. They are just giant walking toasters.

I just think it's silly that people think robots can have sex. Why the hell would you build a robot with a sex drive? Why the hell are we even brining this discussion up about something which is aimed mainly at kids anyway?

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:They WOULDN'T BE REPRODUCING. THEY ARE ROBOTS. They are factory built. You could not have sex with something that transforms into something else. You could not give birth. Transformers are not organic, they are robots with sentiency.

They are more than just robots. They are living beings. This is clearly stated in canon, and even more clearly stated in the movie. Remember what Optimus Prime introduced himself and the other Autobots? He said, "We are autonomous robotic organisms, from the planet Cybertron[/b]." The key word is organisms.

That's the movie. The movie is a continuity all on it's own. It doesn't count.

Damolisher wrote:I just think it's silly that people think robots can have sex. Why the hell would you build a robot with a sex drive? Why the hell are we even brining this discussion up about something which is aimed mainly at kids anyway?

You brought it up.

Anyway, I didn't say a thing about sex.

No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Damolisher wrote:No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Whatever you say.
But I gotta get off. I'll come back later.

Zombie Starscream wrote:If Tfs are not alive, then there is no immorality in killing them. They are just giant walking toasters.

Actually, no, they aren't. they are alive.

Damolishor wrote:That's the movie. The movie is a continuity all on it's own. It doesn't count.

It is still part of official TF canon. Also, the rest of TF lore says the same thing. TF: More than Meets the Eye #8refers to Cybertron's inhabitants as such:

]The denizens of the planet Cybertron are anmong the most powerful and giftedlife forms, mechanical or otherwise, in the known universe."

These are living beings, not just machines.

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

Saying that they're not just machines is like saying your computer is alive. Take this quote from Jazz in "The God Gambit":

We're not Gods, Elaria, just fancy Machines."

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

Damolisher wrote:Saying that they're not just machines is like saying your computer is alive. Take this quote from Jazz in "The God Gambit":

We're not Gods, Elaria, just fancy Machines."

No, it isn't the same thing. Can a computer heal? No. Can a computer grow? No. Can a computer learn, or sense its environment? No. Does a computer metabolize fuel? No. A computer is not a life form. TransFormers are. That doesn't make them gods. Also, technically, we too are machines. By definition an machine is simply, "an apparatus consisting of interrelated parts with separate functions, used in the performance of some kind of work". By that definition, all life forms are a type of machine. What puts us above ordinary machines is we are alive. This is also true of TransFormers. They are living machines, just as we are, but instead of being organic, they are techno-organic; mechanical, based on nanites, circuitry and metal instead of carbon. That is the only real difference.

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

There is nothing wrong with friendly debate as long as we keep it just that—friendly. Whether we all agree or simply agree to disagree, let's not take any of this personally.

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Saying that they're not just machines is like saying your computer is alive. Take this quote from Jazz in "The God Gambit":

We're not Gods, Elaria, just fancy Machines."

No, it isn't the same thing. Can a computer heal? No. Can a computer grow? No. Can a computer learn, or sense its environment? No. Does a computer metabolize fuel? No. A computer is not a life form. TransFormers are. That doesn't make them gods. Also, technically, we too are machines. By definition an machine is simply, "an apparatus consisting of interrelated parts with separate functions, used in the performance of some kind of work". By that definition, all life forms are a type of machine. What puts us above ordinary machines is we are alive. This is also true of TransFormers. They are liveing machines, just as we are, but instead of being organic, they are techno-organic; mechanical, based on nanites, circuitry and metal instead of carbon. That is the only real difference.

Bravo.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

There is nothing wrong with friendly debate as long as we keep it just that—friendly. Whether we alla gree or simply agree to disagree, let's not take any of this personally.

Sounds like a plan to me. ^^
I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with the same things I believe. But I did want to apollogize for ticking him off.

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

There is nothing wrong with friendly debate as long as we keep it just that—friendly. Whether we alla gree or simply agree to disagree, let's not take any of this personally.

Sounds like a plan to me. ^^
I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with the same things I believe. But I did want to apollogize for ticking him off.

I never worry about that.

Anywhat, your idea of how it would work, by simply combining sparks would work if they were purely enrgy beings who simply inhabited robitic bodies, and that doesn't quite work. They are just as physical as we are, so any reproduction would have to be physical, not just the spark. That is why I say it would need to be similar, to our own, though, not necesarily the same. It is also the reason why we would never see them actually engaging in the act, since, as Damolishor pointed out, TF was meant for kids. All Cybertronians utilize a nanomachine based regenerative system, AKA, Regenerative circuitry, as it is called in TF: More than Meets the Eye. They have a cellular structure, but instead of being made from protiens, they're nanites. This is canon. Now, also according to canon, they have a "genetic structure". This too is steted in MtMtE #8. Under Mass Conversion it that mass conversion represents a significant genetic difference from Parts compression. It specifically uses the word "genetic." Now, imagine specialized nanites in the male and female specifically meant for reproduction, the merging of which produces a new TF life.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

There is nothing wrong with friendly debate as long as we keep it just that—friendly. Whether we alla gree or simply agree to disagree, let's not take any of this personally.

Sounds like a plan to me. ^^
I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with the same things I believe. But I did want to apollogize for ticking him off.

I never worry about that.

Anywhat, your idea of how it would work, by simply combining sparks would work if they were purely enrgy beings who simply inhabited robitic bodies, and that doesn't quite work. They are just as physical as we are, so any reproduction would have to be physical, not just the spark. That is why I say it would need to be similar, to our own, though, not necesarily the same. It is also the reason why we would never see them actually engaging in the act, since, as Damolishor pointed out, TF was meant for kids. All Cybertronians utilize a nanomachine based regenerative system, AKA, Regenerative circuitry, as it is called in TF: More than Meets the Eye. They have a cellular structure, but instead of being made from protiens, they're nanites. This is canon. Now, also according to canon, they have a "genetic structure". This too is steted in MtMtE #8. Under Mass Conversion it that mass conversion represents a significant genetic difference from Parts compression. It specifically uses the word "genetic." Now, imagine specialized nanites in the male and female specifically meant for reproduction, the merging of which produces a new TF life.

Oh, okay.
Well, mine is just a fan theory like I said.
It's unbelievible how something fictional can get so technical.
As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. With characters like the TF's, you've got to think outside of earth standards because they are not from earth.

Siren Prime wrote:Oh, okay.
Well, mine is just a fan theory like I said.
It's unbelievible how something fictional can get so technical.
As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. With characters like the TF's, you've got to think outside of earth standards because they are not from earth.

Yes and no. You do still have to stick within certain scientific parameters. They aren't energy beings after all, so there are certain things that make more sense than others, and the physical growth of an offspring from the union of the male and female through nanite "gametes" containing genetic data from each parent just makes more logical sense. Does that mean we'd have a pregnant Fembot? Not necessarily, though that is my preferred theory. She could lay an egg pod for all I know, and gestation could happen externally. Either way, it isn't that important, though it is food for thought.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:You brought it up.

Damolishor wrote:]No I'm bloody not! Look a few pages back, and reproducing was mentioned not by me. Far out.

Actually, I brought that up.

I'm back.
And actually I worded that one wrong. Sorry Damolisher.
Basically I just think we shouldn't be fighting about this.

There is nothing wrong with friendly debate as long as we keep it just that—friendly. Whether we alla gree or simply agree to disagree, let's not take any of this personally.

Sounds like a plan to me. ^^
I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with the same things I believe. But I did want to apollogize for ticking him off.

I never worry about that.

Anywhat, your idea of how it would work, by simply combining sparks would work if they were purely enrgy beings who simply inhabited robitic bodies, and that doesn't quite work. They are just as physical as we are, so any reproduction would have to be physical, not just the spark. That is why I say it would need to be similar, to our own, though, not necesarily the same. It is also the reason why we would never see them actually engaging in the act, since, as Damolishor pointed out, TF was meant for kids. All Cybertronians utilize a nanomachine based regenerative system, AKA, Regenerative circuitry, as it is called in TF: More than Meets the Eye. They have a cellular structure, but instead of being made from protiens, they're nanites. This is canon. Now, also according to canon, they have a "genetic structure". This too is steted in MtMtE #8. Under Mass Conversion it that mass conversion represents a significant genetic difference from Parts compression. It specifically uses the word "genetic." Now, imagine specialized nanites in the male and female specifically meant for reproduction, the merging of which produces a new TF life.

I have an idea of how this might work. The nanites might only have half of their programming in each. The male's has half, the female's has half. They combine to create a whole, and the new lif is born. After they combine and fuse, the new nanite-zygote begins to replicate and then differantiate into componants and whatever. There will be traits that are combined from the parents, and some will come out as either/or. Like for example, alt-mode will be either/or. Eye color will be the same. Body color will not, and can be any combination from the parents.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I have an idea of how this might work. The nanites might only have half of their programming in each. The male's has half, the female's has half. They combine to create a whole, and the new lif is born. After they combine and fuse, the new nanite-zygote begins to replicate and then differantiate into componants and whatever. There will be traits that are combined from the parents, and some will come out as either/or. Like for example, alt-mode will be either/or. Eye color will be the same. Body color will not, and can be any combination from the parents.

Exactly. That's pretty much what I said.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:Oh, okay.
Well, mine is just a fan theory like I said.
It's unbelievible how something fictional can get so technical.
As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. With characters like the TF's, you've got to think outside of earth standards because they are not from earth.

Yes and no. You do still have to stick within certain scientific parameters. They aren't energy beings after all, so there are certain things that make more sense than others, and the physical growth of an offspring from the union of the male and female through nanite "gametes" containing genetic data from each parent just makes more logical sense. Does that mean we'd have a pregnant Fembot? Not necessarily, though that is my preferred theory. She could lay an egg pod for all I know, and gestation could happen externally. Either way, it isn't that important, though it is food for thought.

Yeah, see now that's what I don't agree with.
I believe that they are machines. Robot organisms.
They are alive. They have personalities; souls even. I think they can love and care about others.
But I don't believe they have eggs, sperm, etc.
They can reproduce, but I don't think is like that.

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:Oh, okay.
Well, mine is just a fan theory like I said.
It's unbelievible how something fictional can get so technical.
As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. With characters like the TF's, you've got to think outside of earth standards because they are not from earth.

Yes and no. You do still have to stick within certain scientific parameters. They aren't energy beings after all, so there are certain things that make more sense than others, and the physical growth of an offspring from the union of the male and female through nanite "gametes" containing genetic data from each parent just makes more logical sense. Does that mean we'd have a pregnant Fembot? Not necessarily, though that is my preferred theory. She could lay an egg pod for all I know, and gestation could happen externally. Either way, it isn't that important, though it is food for thought.

Yeah, see now that's what I don't agree with.
I believe that they are machines. Robot organisms.
They are alive. They have personalities; souls even. I think they can love and care about others.
But I don't believe they have eggs, sperm, etc.
They can reproduce, but I don't think is like that.

Why not? IF you think about it, their bodies do utilize nanites as the basis for their regenerative systems; ther ability to heal and grow. Why would they not also utilize that for reproduction?

Some people don't like the idea bacause they can't get past their being robotic. Others just can't fathom the idea of them "doing it", or having children.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:Oh, okay.
Well, mine is just a fan theory like I said.
It's unbelievible how something fictional can get so technical.
As far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. With characters like the TF's, you've got to think outside of earth standards because they are not from earth.

Yes and no. You do still have to stick within certain scientific parameters. They aren't energy beings after all, so there are certain things that make more sense than others, and the physical growth of an offspring from the union of the male and female through nanite "gametes" containing genetic data from each parent just makes more logical sense. Does that mean we'd have a pregnant Fembot? Not necessarily, though that is my preferred theory. She could lay an egg pod for all I know, and gestation could happen externally. Either way, it isn't that important, though it is food for thought.

Yeah, see now that's what I don't agree with.
I believe that they are machines. Robot organisms.
They are alive. They have personalities; souls even. I think they can love and care about others.
But I don't believe they have eggs, sperm, etc.
They can reproduce, but I don't think is like that.

Why not? IF you think about it, their bodies do utilize nanites as the basis for their regenerative systems; ther ability to heal and grow. Why would they not also utilize that for reproduction?

I don't know, I just don't think of it that way.
Maybe it's just the fact that I'd find it extremely wierd for a femme to be pregnant.
If I could explain, I guess my view of the Transformers is that they are not organic so much as they are mechanic with organic tendencies (you know, love, personality).
And I know what nanites are, but for the whole time I've been a TF fan, I've never heard them mentioned.

Siren Prime wrote:I don't know, I just don't think of it that way.
Maybe it's just the fact that I'd find it extremely wierd for a femme to be pregnant.
If I could explain, I guess my view of the Transformers is that they are not organic so much as they are mechanic with organic tendencies (you know, love, personality).
And I know what nanites are, but for the whole time I've been a TF fan, I've never heard them mentioned.

TF: More than Meets the Eye # 8 refers to them as internal regeneration circuitry. It's the same thing—microscopic self-replicating circuitry and machines which rebuild damaged systems, ultimately healing damage, just like our own cells replicate to heal our injuries. Transformers use CR chambers to boost this healing. That same type of regenerative circuitry system could also be used for reproduction.

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:I don't know, I just don't think of it that way.
Maybe it's just the fact that I'd find it extremely wierd for a femme to be pregnant.
If I could explain, I guess my view of the Transformers is that they are not organic so much as they are mechanic with organic tendencies (you know, love, personality).
And I know what nanites are, but for the whole time I've been a TF fan, I've never heard them mentioned.

TF: More than Meets the Eye # 8 refers to them as internal regeneration circuitry. It's the same thing—microscopic self-replicating circuitry and machines which rebuild damaged systems, ultimately healing damage, just like our own cells replicate to heal our injuries. Transformers use CR chambers to boost this healing. That same type of regenerative circuitry system could also be used for reproduction.

Okay, fair enough.
But I still don't agree.

Siren Prime wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Siren Prime wrote:I don't know, I just don't think of it that way.
Maybe it's just the fact that I'd find it extremely wierd for a femme to be pregnant.
If I could explain, I guess my view of the Transformers is that they are not organic so much as they are mechanic with organic tendencies (you know, love, personality).
And I know what nanites are, but for the whole time I've been a TF fan, I've never heard them mentioned.

TF: More than Meets the Eye # 8 refers to them as internal regeneration circuitry. It's the same thing—microscopic self-replicating circuitry and machines which rebuild damaged systems, ultimately healing damage, just like our own cells replicate to heal our injuries. Transformers use CR chambers to boost this healing. That same type of regenerative circuitry system could also be used for reproduction.

Okay, fair enough.
But I still don't agree.

Think past "organic" or "inorganic". These are life forms, as such, they have to be capable of reproducing in order to propegate the species. All life reproduces through either asexual or sexual means. These are the only options. These can take the form of budding, mitosis, or spores in the cae of asexual reproduction, or, for sexual reproduction, in the form of pollenation, internal fertilization (sex), or external fertilization (like frogs and some fish). All require the merging of cells containing half of each parent's genetic makeup. Examples of non-organic life using asexual reproduction can be found in a number of stories including Star Trek: TNG. the little flying saucer aliens from [b]Battereies Not Included[/i] are a perfect example of machine-based life which uses internal sexual reproduction and internal genstation. The little female gets pregnant and has babies. Other than size and lack of the ability to transform, they are no different than Cybertronians. In the TF universe itself, we have the Lithonians from the '86 TF the Movie. There we clearly have males, females and small children running around.