The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson and even Steven Speilberg ... all these guys tend to do movies that are big, epic, and with a deep storyline.

And i'll probably get flamed for this (and I don't particulary care either) but Transformers isn't big or epic or meant to have a deep storyline.

The only time in TF mythology there was a deep storyline was Beast Wars and to an extent, Beast Machines. And I don't see how either of those could be done in a live action environment.

Besides, big robts = big fights = big explosions. What need is there for much of a story anyway?

As far as i'm concerned, as flat as the story and plot for the movie was, it was enough to entertain me, and obviously millions of others. And I can't see anyone other than Michael Bay doing a job like that.

1.) Never said I didn't want bay to direct. I want him. It was just that IF it got passed to someone else, I would like to see Scott or Jackson.
2.) What's wrong with an intricate plot to go along with the tons of collateral damage?
3.) I loved the movie as was. Props to you for agreeing with me. (Most people are like "it was okay..." blah blah whine whine.)

you guys really have low expectation for this film, we're now living in the 2000's, and we as audience are expecting it to have deep storyline and meaningful plot. transformers aren't just mindless robots, they have feelings and emotions. i just hope for christsake, the next movie have some deep plot and some great acting from those humans, and the robots, please make them act serious, mmore robotic emotions towards their fellow human friends.

Burn wrote:James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson and even Steven Speilberg ... all these guys tend to do movies that are big, epic, and with a deep storyline.

And i'll probably get flamed for this (and I don't particulary care either) but Transformers isn't big or epic or meant to have a deep storyline.

The only time in TF mythology there was a deep storyline was Beast Wars and to an extent, Beast Machines. And I don't see how either of those could be done in a live action environment.

Besides, big robts = big fights = big explosions. What need is there for much of a story anyway?

As far as i'm concerned, as flat as the story and plot for the movie was, it was enough to entertain me, and obviously millions of others. And I can't see anyone other than Michael Bay doing a job like that.

Im gonna back you up on this one! Finally someone who sees sense!

Altertron wrote:you guys really have low expectation for this film, we're now living in the 2000's, and we as audience are expecting it to have deep storyline and meaningful plot. transformers aren't just mindless robots, they have feelings and emotions. i just hope for christsake, the next movie have some deep plot and some great acting from those humans, and the robots, please make them act serious, mmore robotic emotions towards their fellow human friends.

Err...no. If you want a deep plot, go watch a drama or a crime thriller or read a book. If you want an entertaining action packed awesome transformers movie, whose original source material isnt ruined and made boring by complicated, unecceserily deep plot lines and sub-plots, then keep Bay in.

To try and give TF a deep and philosophical plot is just stupid.

Tybre wrote:1.) Never said I didn't want bay to direct. I want him. It was just that IF it got passed to someone else, I would like to see Scott or Jackson.

My post wasn't aimed solely at you.

Personally, if someone else were to direct, I don't think i'd want someone like Scott or Jackson as they would make it TOO serious IMO.

2.) What's wrong with an intricate plot to go along with the tons of collateral damage?

Absoloutely nothing. I just don't get why people EXPECT it to have a deep intricate plot when aside from BW/BM and the comics, the majority of the TF cartoons NEVER had that.

3.) I loved the movie as was. Props to you for agreeing with me. (Most people are like "it was okay..." blah blah whine whine.)

It was okay. There are things about it that could have been better, but it still entertained me and I still bloody enjoyed it!

But then I don't watch movies to over-analyse things, I watch them to be entertained. I think if others followed that same principle they'd probably enjoy it more.

don't you people want a movie that is equally impressive as batman begins or spider-man 2. those are comic movies, but they make it into graphic-novel type movie that is a page-turner, i want that kind of experience reflict on the next transformer movie. more edgier, more darker tone and bad-ass acting. if the director is passionate about the movie he's making which bay isn't, cuz he's not a fan of transformers at all. but people like sam raimi who loves spider-man, and he ended up directing the most spectucular movie franchise of all time!!!

Altertron wrote:don't you people want a movie that is equally impressive as batman begins or spider-man 2. those are comic movies, but they make it into graphic-novel type movie that is a page-turner, i want that kind of experience reflict on the next transformer movie. more edgier, more darker tone and bad-ass acting. if the director is passionate about the movie he's making which bay isn't, cuz he's not a fan of transformers at all. but people like sam raimi who loves spider-man, and he ended up directing the most spectucular movie franchise of all time!!!

The most spectacular movie franchise that people complain that it went onf for too long crammed way to much stuff into the movies themselves. Bay said he went into the movie knowing nothing, but the 2 years that he worked on the movie he has become a fan of the source, knows the characters created for the movie better than anyone else.

I really wish people would quit expecting a movie like Batman Begins.

There is a MAJOR difference.

Batman is a comic book character.

Transformers are toys first, cartoon second, and comics a distant third.

Batman has 50+ years of mythology to draw on and hasn't been splintered into different mythologies/universes like Transformers has.

Batman has been developed by serious writers and artists. Transformers has been developed by a bunch of guys employed by Hasbro to create stories that will appeal to the kids of the day.

See now why you simply can't compare Transformers to Batman, or ANY comic-turned-movie franchise?

Altertron wrote:don't you people want a movie that is equally impressive as batman begins or spider-man 2. those are comic movies, but they make it into graphic-novel type movie that is a page-turner, i want that kind of experience reflict on the next transformer movie. more edgier, more darker tone and bad-ass acting. if the director is passionate about the movie he's making which bay isn't, cuz he's not a fan of transformers at all. but people like sam raimi who loves spider-man, and he ended up directing the most spectucular movie franchise of all time!!!

The Spiderman series was one long boring soap opera. Thats what happens when you try to cram in too much plot, too many sub plots and too many characters and too much character development. For comic book movies they sure was boring as hell, and i would hate to see Transformers go the same way. I just want loads of entertaining action and big giant robots beating the **** outta each other which is what the Transformers universe is ALL ABOUT. Nothing more, nothing less so lets all try to stop making it into some serious and deep franchise to win oscars with and just allow ourselves to be entertained by a cool movie that makes us feel like kids again.

Burn wrote:I really wish people would quit expecting a movie like Batman Begins.

There is a MAJOR difference.

Batman is a comic book character.

Transformers are toys first, cartoon second, and comics a distant third.

Batman has 50+ years of mythology to draw on and hasn't been splintered into different mythologies/universes like Transformers has.

Batman has been developed by serious writers and artists. Transformers has been developed by a bunch of guys employed by Hasbro to create stories that will appeal to the kids of the day.

See now why you simply can't compare Transformers to Batman, or ANY comic-turned-movie franchise?

And once again, i need to back you up on this one.

Nelson Shin would rock as the director.

Altertron wrote:don't you people want a movie that is equally impressive as batman begins or spider-man 2. those are comic movies, but they make it into graphic-novel type movie that is a page-turner, i want that kind of experience reflict on the next transformer movie.

1.) I was a hell of a lot more impressed by Transformers than any of the Spider-Man movies, and Batman Begins doesn't count with me because I'm a Nolan and Bale mark.

2.) As Burn said, Transformers is not going to be a comic movie predominantly. Toys and the cartoon are always going to be the main focus.

Sonray wrote:

Burn wrote:I really wish people would quit expecting a movie like Batman Begins.

There is a MAJOR difference.

Batman is a comic book character.

Transformers are toys first, cartoon second, and comics a distant third.

Batman has 50+ years of mythology to draw on and hasn't been splintered into different mythologies/universes like Transformers has.

Batman has been developed by serious writers and artists. Transformers has been developed by a bunch of guys employed by Hasbro to create stories that will appeal to the kids of the day.

See now why you simply can't compare Transformers to Batman, or ANY comic-turned-movie franchise?

And once again, i need to back you up on this one.

Batman's been around for almost 70, actually. But other than that, I agree.

when jazz dies or any other memeber of the autobots got killed heroically, prime didn't show any sorrow, instead he would say something like this don't let any of us die in vain or something like that, this sounds empty and unemotional, partly because he's a robot.

Or because he's lost so many fellow Autobots, and friends, in the war that he feels there's no need to mourn but to move on and to make sure no more of his friends are killed.

Altertron wrote:for those who have seen transformers movie in 1986 will heard of Nelson Shin. because he's the orignal director of transformers! i realized after seeing the movie for a couple of times, bay isn't good at storytelling or making the robots in the film to show more emotion. his direction isn't all bad, it's basically a popcorn flick, action after action. but Nelson Shin on the other hand made the audiences cried when he made prime die. so i guess this pretty much sums up what i'm talking about. it's a good start for a bay to make the first, then pass the torch to another director that has a different approach in his direction of the film in mind. if hollywood does choose Shin over Bay, the movie will be 10x emotional than titanic in 97!!!

He made audiences cry with primes death... because people knew who prime was after 2 seasons. This is a movie. Try fitting two seasons of Transformers into one movie. Dont forget, like i said already.. THIS IS A MOVIE, its for EVERYONE TO WATCH, not just "FANS" of the original series, SO lots of new people will need to know what a transformer is for crying out loud let alone who the characters are.

Oh, and about making people cry, well i saw/heard that people cried at bumblebee. So yeah.

I dont think Nelson shin could direct the movie today. I hate to say it. He would make it Corney as hell.

To be honnest, i think you guys should be "mad" at the writters. not bay, bay directs what has been given to him on paper.. and as far as that is cocerned, he did a good job.

Of course people cried when Prime died.

The majority of these people were children who just watched their hero of the day die. Of course we were going to cry.

Yeah, there, you lot happy? I admit it. I cried when Prime died.

Altertron wrote:don't you people want a movie that is equally impressive as batman begins or spider-man 2. those are comic movies, but they make it into graphic-novel type movie that is a page-turner, i want that kind of experience reflict on the next transformer movie. more edgier, more darker tone and bad-ass acting. if the director is passionate about the movie he's making which bay isn't, cuz he's not a fan of transformers at all. but people like sam raimi who loves spider-man, and he ended up directing the most spectucular movie franchise of all time!!!

http://www.transformersmovie.com

Click "Visit Cybertron"
Click "Videos"
Watch and listen carefully

Altertron wrote:when jazz dies or any other memeber of the autobots got killed heroically, prime didn't show any sorrow, instead he would say something like this don't let any of us die in vain or something like that, this sounds empty and unemotional, partly because he's a robot.

Yeah it could be that he's a robot. Or more likely, at the start of the film, they said war had been raging on Cybertron for millions of years (can someone say G1?). If you had been a warrior for millions of years, you would get to the point where you would still be saddened by the loss of a friend, but you would be so used to death that it wouldn't really phase you. Hell, my cousin's fighting in Iraq and after the first year he wasn't phased by the death of his comrades anymore.

Burn wrote:Of course people cried when Prime died.

The majority of these people were children who just watched their hero of the day die. Of course we were going to cry.

Yeah, there, you lot happy? I admit it. I cried when Prime died.

I cried, too. Of course, I watched it broken up into six parts, as part of a syndicated TV series. (I was born in the 90s, so I had to watch G1 in syndication) I cried for a long time. Prime had become a father figure to me, who has no father.

shin killed of prime so early in the film, it's a drag to see another autobot to take care of business. if he had postpone prime's death almost at the end of the film, that would be great. i have to confess when my hero dies for 20 mintues or so in the movie, i felt asleep to the very end, cuz none of the new characters that i recognized or know of.

I quote the man you want to direct the next film.

"In the next season (3), we were going to have all these new characters, and people are going to be wondering what happened to the old characters that they liked so much. What we knew, in a business sense, is that they had been discontinued, because they were the 1984/1985 (toy)line – but, we needed to tie them off. So, we had this one scene where the Autobots basically had to run through a gauntlet of Decepticons. Which basically wiped out the entire '84 product line in one massive "charge of the light brigade". So, whoever wasn't discontinued, stumbled to the end. That scene didn’t make it into the finished movie. But if you think kids were locking themselves in the bedroom over Optimus Prime, basically in that scene they would've seen their entire toy collection wiped out."

Jazz-935 wrote:

Altertron wrote:for those who have seen transformers movie in 1986 will heard of Nelson Shin. because he's the orignal director of transformers! i realized after seeing the movie for a couple of times, bay isn't good at storytelling or making the robots in the film to show more emotion. his direction isn't all bad, it's basically a popcorn flick, action after action. but Nelson Shin on the other hand made the audiences cried when he made prime die. so i guess this pretty much sums up what i'm talking about. it's a good start for a bay to make the first, then pass the torch to another director that has a different approach in his direction of the film in mind. if hollywood does choose Shin over Bay, the movie will be 10x emotional than titanic in 97!!!

He made audiences cry with primes death... because people knew who prime was after 2 seasons. This is a movie. Try fitting two seasons of Transformers into one movie. Dont forget, like i said already.. THIS IS A MOVIE, its for EVERYONE TO WATCH, not just "FANS" of the original series, SO lots of new people will need to know what a transformer is for crying out loud let alone who the characters are.

Oh, and about making people cry, well i saw/heard that people cried at bumblebee. So yeah.

I dont think Nelson shin could direct the movie today. I hate to say it. He would make it Corney as hell.

To be honnest, i think you guys should be "mad" at the writters. not bay, bay directs what has been given to him on paper.. and as far as that is cocerned, he did a good job.

My wife said she wanted to cry when bumblebee got hurt. I must say i was sorta chocked up as well.

which episode(s) in the series that you felt it was an emotional one, or which scene in the movie that is very emotional, when bumblebee gets hurt or jazz got killed?

Nothing in the film made me want to cry. I was sad when Bumblee's legs got ripped off and when Jazz got torn in half, but not enough to cry. But when Optimus transformed, stood up, and said "My name is Optimus Prime." I was literally drooling.

i got emotional when i first saw prime transforms on the silverscreen and heard peter cullen's deepening voice. i thought in a second, my god am i back in the 80's am i a child again? then i say toyself "thank you bay for bringing back childhood memories."

Altertron wrote:for those who have seen transformers movie in 1986 will heard of Nelson Shin. because he's the orignal director of transformers! i realized after seeing the movie for a couple of times, bay isn't good at storytelling or making the robots in the film to show more emotion. his direction isn't all bad, it's basically a popcorn flick, action after action. but Nelson Shin on the other hand made the audiences cried when he made prime die. so i guess this pretty much sums up what i'm talking about. it's a good start for a bay to make the first, then pass the torch to another director that has a different approach in his direction of the film in mind. if hollywood does choose Shin over Bay, the movie will be 10x emotional than titanic in 97!!!

Peter Jackson, James Cameron, John Woo, Robert Zemekis, Chimpanzee that graduated from Harvard, all could do better than Bay...But unfortunatley all Hollywood sees is chedder and Bay delivered the chedder so he's gonna get first rights to grease-up the next movie aswell while laffing at everyone in the fanbase that wants to cut themselves at the mere mention of his name...

As for TF the movie from 1986 I get more emotional watching the end credits than I got from anything in Bayformers...Even Anthony Anderson who starred in the movie said the scene when Jazz dies was the dumbest $hit ever..."Oh Jazz is dead..."-cue the end credits...