Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Seibertron wrote:Your dissection of my comments all seem like fairly logical responses to my comments. I appreciate you taking the time to read between the lines.
I don't think Hasbro has an inability or an unwillingness to cater to a wide swath of collectors. I think Hasbro has done a pretty good job of doing this. Do we want more? You bet we do. Compared to where we were at 10 years ago, we are getting a ton collector oriented products that the market probably wouldn't have been able to support pre movies. Is there room for improvement? You bet! Having discussions about ideas for improvements on this forum is a great place to start. Hasbro definitely reads our forums from time-to-time so it's definitely a way to get your thoughts read by them.
I also feel like there should be convention exclusives that are just that ... convention exclusives. What's the point of having convention exclusives if they are widely available elsewhere? The point of the convention exclusive is two fold: to draw attention to the event itself and to create a demand to attend the event. BotCon failed to get people in the doors this year and I believe that is in part to making convention sets and leftover exclusives available to people who did not attend. There shouldn't be a non-attending set. It takes away from the experience of going to the convention.
If some of you think that's an elitist comment, then there is probably little that I can do to change your opinion. It is not meant to be an elitist comment. I'm just on the other side of the coin here where I do attend all of these events and I do whatever I have to do to make sure that I'm there because it's important to me as a collector and because of Seibertron.com.
Attending these events and getting the exclusive products that are sold at conventions is part of the appeal ... that's the whole idea behind convention exclusives. Make them easy to obtain for non-attendees? Then what's the point of having an exclusive at all? Might as well just make it a retail product that's sold at big box stores.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
Bowspearer wrote:The problem with the "if you don't go to the convention, that's your choice, so live with the consequences" argument is that it comes across as somewhat ignorant considering the state of geekdom as it has been for many years now.
I can understand that argument if Transformers and other franchises only had a fan base in the US or even North America, but the fact is that they have a global fan base.
Yes, people traveling interstate still have to fork out a couple of hundred for accomodation (presuming they're not sharing) and maybe another hundred in travel, but your argument completely falls apart in when you get to international fans.
Sure, there are some international fans who can afford to go to it either every single year or on the odd year, but those fans are in the tiny minority.
It's one thing to save up for a trip that will cost a few thousand. However when you start talking about places like here in Australia for example, where you're looking at $4000 just for the airfares (forgetting accomodation and spending money), then such an argument really does stretch the limits of what constitutes a reasonable argument.
It doesn't help matters in the slightest that places like HTS wont do international shipping- leaving international fans to the mercy of the secondary market.
In short, there really needs to be either a an online outlet for fans unable to make the con, or even ideally an affiliation with other cons in other regions where exclusives could potentially be shared.
Seibertron wrote:megatronus wrote:Excuse me for being curt, but that's easy for you to say given that that's your job. Not everyone has the "choice," as you put it, and I'm not sure I appreciate the elitist tone you're taking.
I'm not being elitist. I'm just trying to get some of you to maybe understand the other side of all of this. Also, this wasn't always my primary job yet I still was able to figure out how to get what I want. Don't let my ownership of this site fool you, I have to work my butt off to get most of this stuff just like you guys. Yes, I get the occasional Transformers products from Hasbro (maybe 5 to 10 per year), but outside of that, I have to jump through all of the hoops like you guys do.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
megatronus wrote:From what I can see, the source of the frustration in this thread is twofold:
1. Lucy withholding the football - the prospect of attaining the exclusive online, only to be thwarted like Charlie Brown when the football is unceremoniously taken away at the last second.
2. The money issue - I think we'll all be happier if money is in the background of these discussions rather than the foreground. For me, at least, that's where the cries of "Elitist!" come in.
megatronus wrote:It doesn't hurt that you seem to live in the "Transformers-belt" (that special area that's not quite mid-west, but not quite east coast either, that has great TF distribution),
megatronus wrote:but still... hunting & running your own business is tough. As a youngster in his mid-twenties, I do hope to be able to attend a convention or two one day, and I know I got to work to make that happen. Again, for me, the elitist timber of your original statement was more in the seemingly flippant money-bomb than anything else. It's clear now that it wasn't your intention to convey that tone, but just like political talk, money talk rubs some people the wrong way.
Seibertron wrote:
I don't follow this argument. I buy exclusives from other countries. I pay the markup prices because I know that's just how this works. I'm paying a markup for the service of people who attend events in other countries and wait in line for those exclusives and ship those exclusives. It's a middleman fee. I hope they do make some money so that they can get those exclusives out of those foreign country stores or conventions so that I can get my hands on them.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
If you want these things so badly then start a convention of your own in Australia and try and sweet talk Hasbro into providing you with someBowspearer wrote:Except in some cases, to call it a fee is an understatement. When you're talking 100% and in some cases 200% plus markups on the con price of exclusives, then you really are talking about things being scalper bait.
I have no problem with reasonable secondary market prices, where someone might be making say 25% on the original price, but we both know that in practice, there are many cases where it doesn't work out like that. Heck look at secondary market prices on some Botcon stuff soon after a convention.
The problem with the current state of play is that it essentially enables scalpers whilst penalising fans who could not reasonably be expected to make a convention. There really does need to be some kind of availablilty of exclusives at cons in other regions to act as a pressure valve for the utterly inflationary markups you often see post-convention.
william-james88 wrote:So that would also be the case for Predaking, who is also six members.
megatronus wrote:1. Lucy withholding the football - the prospect of attaining the exclusive online, only to be thwarted like Charlie Brown when the football is unceremoniously taken away at the last second.
Seibertron wrote:You do have to work to make it happen. I attended my first BotCon in 1996 at 19 years old. I did it on wages from working at McDonald's at that time making $7.50 an hour as a swing manager. You just have to make it happen.
Seibertron wrote:If you guys want a convention exclusive, you guys have to go to the convention. If you choose not to go to the convention, then don't complain about people who try to make a little money off some products at the event that they attended. It's the name of the game. These trips are extremely expensive. If someone wants to offset some of their costs by flipping some exclusives, then so be it. I'd know I'd like to recoup some of the $3,000+ my wife and I spent last week to attend Comic-Con on flights, hotels, food, my exclusives, the $140 to ship back my exclusives, etc.
ScottyP wrote:I've missed so much good discussion!
To anyone that missed out on Metroplex - I feel for you, I really do (missed out on Bruticus last year and kicked myself for months over it), but at least there's a very, very similar figure coming out to retail. If you really really wanted that chrome, and really really don't want to pay the markup for SDCC Metro on ebay or the Hong Kong version coming soon, here's a decent guide to chroming up plastic : http://www.astroexpressparts.com/docume ... 0Parts.pdfmegatronus wrote:1. Lucy withholding the football - the prospect of attaining the exclusive online, only to be thwarted like Charlie Brown when the football is unceremoniously taken away at the last second.
With some obvious exception - in general, this doesn't hold much water in my opinion. Look at just this year:
- All Botcon exclusives were available online at regular price except for the Rainmakers.
- All SDCC exclusives were available online at regular price. Metroplex sold out in 13 minutes AND the HTS site didn't crash. That's far and away much better than almost any SDCC exclusive we've seen before (aside from the years where they really weren't all that great).
- Even TF Con exclusives are easily had on preorder.
- Even Charticon did some non-attending stuff and this is their first go!
Exclusives have always been a part of the hobby and that will not change. Ever. What you should change, if exclusives bother you (not "you" as in a specific person, but the general "you guys" kind of thing), is your strategy for getting them.Seibertron wrote:You do have to work to make it happen. I attended my first BotCon in 1996 at 19 years old. I did it on wages from working at McDonald's at that time making $7.50 an hour as a swing manager. You just have to make it happen.
This. There's a few points to remember with this stuff:
1. It never truly disappears. Just because you can't get it now, or can't afford the aftermarket value now, doesn't mean you'll never own it. If you want it that bad, it can be had. I never thought I'd own a Big Powered when I looked them up tens years ago while in college and living off peanuts, but now, there it sits on my shelf. Sometimes, you have to have patience, because life gets in the way. If anything ever happens that severely affects the income I can spend, I will spend less, miss out on some luxuries (because that's truly what this stuff is, in perspective), and I'll have to get over it.
2. Prioritize and save. Like with Ryan's example, I attended my first Botcon while working part time at a Sears during school. I saved up for months to go, drove 13 hours to get there, was broke by the time I got home and had basically $0 to spend in the dealer room, but it was a blast and a half and I don't regret it for a minute. Why did I do that? Because it was 2007, and I just had to make those toys happen.
tl;dr: Save your money up if this stuff matters to you and prioritize your purchases of these luxury items, as many can be had right when they come out somewhat easily.
Seibertron wrote:I also feel like there should be convention exclusives that are just that ... convention exclusives. What's the point of having convention exclusives if they are widely available elsewhere?
DevastaTTor wrote:If I had gone again, I would have purchased 2; one for me and one to sell.
Ebonyleopard wrote:Seibertron wrote:I also feel like there should be convention exclusives that are just that ... convention exclusives. What's the point of having convention exclusives if they are widely available elsewhere?
This is the point where I would totally agree with you and probably where your original statement should have stopped. When people go to Botcon and get Botcon exclusives, many fans, may want them (I'd sure as heck would love to get a Strika, because I really like that character), but I know there's really no other way to get one unless I had either attended the con itself or Ebay because it'll never be offered again anywhere else. Had this Metroplex truly been just a SDCC exclusive, I don't think most people, while disappointed, would have had an overall issue with it. But, that's the thing, it wasn't just a SDCC exclusive once HTS offered it for sale. By creating a second location to buy the item, it became less exclusive, so telling people if they wanted it so bad they should have went to the con is going to grind some gears since Hasbro themselves offered a second way to acquire it, but did a really crappy job about providing that second avenue (IMHO).
BTW, long time watcher, very infrequent poster.
Ebonyleopard wrote:BTW, long time watcher, very infrequent poster.
Ebonyleopard wrote:This is the point where I would totally agree with you and probably where your original statement should have stopped. When people go to Botcon and get Botcon exclusives, many fans, may want them (I'd sure as heck would love to get a Strika, because I really like that character), but I know there's really no other way to get one unless I had either attended the con itself or Ebay because it'll never be offered again anywhere else. Had this Metroplex truly been just a SDCC exclusive, I don't think most people, while disappointed, would have had an overall issue with it. But, that's the thing, it wasn't just a SDCC exclusive once HTS offered it for sale. By creating a second location to buy the item, it became less exclusive, so telling people if they wanted it so bad they should have went to the con is going to grind some gears since Hasbro themselves offered a second way to acquire it, but did a really crappy job about providing that second avenue (IMHO).
Seibertron wrote:If you guys want a convention exclusive, you guys have to go to the convention. If you choose not to go to the convention, then don't complain about people who try to make a little money off some products at the event that they attended. It's the name of the game. These trips are extremely expensive. If someone wants to offset some of their costs by flipping some exclusives, then so be it. I'd know I'd like to recoup some of the $3,000+ my wife and I spent last week to attend Comic-Con on flights, hotels, food, my exclusives, the $140 to ship back my exclusives, etc.
mbd88prime wrote:Sure I'll just up and go to California to get a toy. As if the only issue is choice. HEY I just now decided I'm going to Mars that means I can do so right? HEY I just now decided that I want a McCleron F-1 should be in the driveway by the end of the night....right?
mbd88prime wrote:My question is why are these exclusives only available to those who go to conventions that are only in certain areas of the country (that are not in any way centrally located) so as to at least make it fair in some way to people.
mbd88prime wrote:If there is going to be an exclusive why not make it available at a Chicago comic con, or a New York comic convention or whatever. I live in Indiana and I Can't afford to go to San Diego for even one day, what about someone who lives in New York or Rhode Island. A company such as Hasbro has the ability to make this toy available to everyone, they chose not to.
mbd88prime wrote:I work at a grocery store as a department manager. I don't take my best sale items and hide them in areas that only certain customers have access to, in what way would that benefit me? Can't think of one. I can think of tons of ways it would hurt me though: opportunity costs (sales), pissed off customers, negative word of mouth, and so on. Just look how many people get angry every time there is a cool exclusive that only certain people have any shot at getting. Why is this ok?
mbd88prime wrote:As for those of you who can afford to go to San Diego for a toy good for you, but try thinking of someone besides yourself for just a minute because apparently Hasbro doesn't care about everyone that winds up having to pay a 100% mark up because they have piss poor customer relations skills.
Arctorro wrote:If you want these things so badly then start a convention of your own in Australia and try and sweet talk Hasbro into providing you with someBowspearer wrote:Except in some cases, to call it a fee is an understatement. When you're talking 100% and in some cases 200% plus markups on the con price of exclusives, then you really are talking about things being scalper bait.
I have no problem with reasonable secondary market prices, where someone might be making say 25% on the original price, but we both know that in practice, there are many cases where it doesn't work out like that. Heck look at secondary market prices on some Botcon stuff soon after a convention.
The problem with the current state of play is that it essentially enables scalpers whilst penalising fans who could not reasonably be expected to make a convention. There really does need to be some kind of availablilty of exclusives at cons in other regions to act as a pressure valve for the utterly inflationary markups you often see post-convention.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Ebonyleopard wrote:I think the problem I have with all of this was the guess work of WHEN the HTS stuff would be available. At least Matty Toy Collector gives you a start time of when they will be selling their exclusive stuff and it's a sort of fair every man for himself battle to see who's got the faster internet connection. With this, you literally had to sit in front of your PC ever day refreshing your browser in hopes to see the thing pop up on the screen.
Seibertron wrote:After not being able to get Soundwave one year, Blaster the next, and the first G.I. Joe vs Transformers Starscream Skystriker set 2 years ago, I said enough was enough and figured out how to get to my first SDCC in 2012 (which is no easy feat).
I work so hard to get to these events and spend so much time waiting in line after line at these events (3 hours just to get my Press badge last Wednesday), that it is a little frustrating to see people saying "where's mine?" and complaining about scalpers when they have very little idea what goes on to get these things in the first place.
All I'm trying to accomplish by jumping into the middle of this heated discussion is to get some of you to understand the bigger picture and maybe try to look at situations like this in a different light.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
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