The Energon Pub

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:Nelson remains a prick to the end

Yes, next time I'll shut up and let you find out til you sit your ass in the theater.

In fact, there was some info that i was going to let the online community know about this week regarding the designs of certain TF characters and the reasons for the designs. But I'll let you find out about it when and if it comes out on DVD.

Maybe some of you guys can handle more surprises from left field come 7/4/7.

I guess my biggest problem is how you movie folks just keep making these drastic changes to the movie we've waited patiently for during the last 4 years and just expect us to roll over and accept all of these changes. I've been a fan of this hobby for 23 years. The movie folks will come and go. We've already seen that with our buddy Don Murphy. You guys come along, leave your mark, and then it's off to the next money making opportunity. Meanwhile, us fans are permanently left with whatever decisions were made. Thank god you guys aren't involved with Marvel's franchise. I'd hate to see what you guys would do to our beloved superheroes. The movie folks have certainly done a bang up job of stripping away one thing after another that has truly meant something to us.

Why should the Transformers property be treated with any less respect as far as designs go than the Marvel characters? And don't give me that crap about the robot designs not translating from their original "blocky" versions to the big screen. You guys are the professionals ... if maintaing the looks of the characters had been anywhere near a priority, someone amongst this vast collection of people could've come up with something closer to what we have been used to from the past 23 years. Instead, you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

Yeah there are some things that I like about the movie. I'm still very excited about it. I think the story is great for the most parts (sans a few things that I mentioned above). My biggest frustration with this movie is simply the designs. I thought after owning some of the toys that the designs would grow on me. Some of them are OK. I like Leader Class Prime ... but it doesn't really look like the movie version. Blackout is cool (but seriously, couldn't we have used the name "Vortex"?). Heck, Starscream is cool ... just not as Starscream. Megatron flat out sucks. Ratchet doesn't look right. Ironhide is OK. Bumblebee is OK though I still have some reservations about him. Jazz is OK (if he keeps his visor he'll look the most like his G1 self of the whole bunch though his dimmunitive size is disappointing - the Autobots' 2nd in command shouldn't be the shortest of the bunch). Scorponok sucks. Barricade, Bonecrusher and Brawl are OK except for their faces which I guess goes the same for all of them. It just ticks me off how arrogant some of the movie people have been when us fans get upset about you changing things that mean a lot to us.

Thank god Soundwave wasn't included in this first round with the movie. I can only imagine what horrible things would've been done to his standard design.

For Gondor! wrote:I can't believe they managed to totally screw up even Optimus Prime because of one man's hubris..

Now THAT the One First Post to Rule Them All.
Welcome to Seibertron, mate. It was made in a factory that handles nuts.

You know what guys. Stop whining and bitching about the **** mouth. Optimus Primal had a Mouth in Beastwars, no one didnt mind.
Optimus Prime had a Mouth in Transformers Cybertron. No one didnt mind.

Oh yeah and in BOTH instances (Though only shown once in BW) They can activate a face plate to make them more traditional (And hey, Its a spiffy feature on the Cybertron Figure)

So you know what. they ARENT deviating from the designs you moron Purists! They are taken what has been done already and working with it....Optimus has had a mouth in the past....and yuou know WHAT!? Even the G1 optimus probably had a mouth, he just had the faceplate up the whole time. (Didnt have the face plate back when he was Orion Pax...he had a mouth)

So again. Shut up....and think before you start slandering this movie!!!! They arent deviating from anything....

Again one more point out. In Cybertron. OPTIMUS'S MOUTH WAS VISIBLE WHEN NOT IN COMBAT, AND EVEN DURING COMBAT IT WAS VISIBLE AND THE FACEPLATE WAS USED FOR HIS BATTLEMODE!

My apologies for my language and tone in this post. But I can no long just sit by and watch as these assholes slander the movie without thinking that maybe. JUST MAYBE they havent been deviating much at all in some aspects.

1337W422102 wrote:Sorry, I guess I only read what someone quoted. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

No one ever quoted that post before you made yours.

Seibertron wrote:No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)

That last one is one thing that bothers me. I hope it has some explanation in the movie, because right now it seems like a major plot hole.

I don't understand the lack of humanoid faces, though. They do have humanoid faces, and with Prime now having a removeable faceplate, his face looks even more humanoid.

I can't believe you criticised characters being created for plot devices when that often happens in Transformers (not to mention repaints being created for money!). I also can't believe the flames are still an issue.

I think Cybertron being destroyed is a good idea. It's working well in the IDW-verse.

SdazVarence wrote:You know what guys. Stop whining and bitching about the **** mouth. Optimus Primal had a Mouth in Beastwars, no one didnt mind.
Optimus Prime had a Mouth in Transformers Cybertron. No one didnt mind.

Oh yeah and in BOTH instances (Though only shown once in BW) They can activate a face plate to make them more traditional (And hey, Its a spiffy feature on the Cybertron Figure)

Did you not notice that he has a mouth surrounded by part of the shield? It doesn't look stupid like the new movie version does with the elongated face. In this version, they've just stripped off the mask altogether.

SdazVarence wrote:So you know what. they ARENT deviating from the designs you moron Purists! They are taken what has been done already and working with it....Optimus has had a mouth in the past....and yuou know WHAT!? Even the G1 optimus probably had a mouth, he just had the faceplate up the whole time. (Didnt have the face plate back when he was Orion Pax...he had a mouth)

We are not moron purists. We're asking that some respect be shown to the designs we've had for the past 23 years. I have no problem with change. I have a problem with them changing stuff and then expecting us to not complain about it. It's absurd.

SdazVarence wrote:So again. Shut up....and think before you start slandering this movie!!!! They arent deviating from anything....

Yes they are and please do not tell us to shut up. We are most certainly able to express our dislikes without someone telling us to shut up.

SdazVarence wrote:Again one more point out. In Cybertron. OPTIMUS'S MOUTH WAS VISIBLE WHEN NOT IN COMBAT, AND EVEN DURING COMBAT IT WAS VISIBLE AND THE FACEPLATE WAS USED FOR HIS BATTLEMODE!

My apologies for my language and tone in this post. But I can no long just sit by and watch as these assholes slander the movie without thinking that maybe. JUST MAYBE they havent been deviating much at all in some aspects.

I'd like to think that I am pretty darn familiar with this hobby, whether it's the cartoon, the comics or the toys. They have taken some extreme creative liberties with this property. They have deviated from the source material quite a bit my friend.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

1337W422102 wrote:Sorry, I guess I only read what someone quoted. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

No one ever quoted that post before you made yours.

I must really be out of it today, then. Sorry for the trouble, mate.

Huh. This has certainly turned into a shitstorm. I frankly don't care one way or another whether he wears a faceplate all the time or not.

Seibertron wrote:Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)

Seriously, do half the people who remember the toys and/or cartoon even know who Carly is? I have a friend whose Transformers collection was actually BIGGER than my own when we were children, and I can guarentee you if I asked him about Carly today he'd have no idea what I was talking about.

Nit. Pick.

I can understand criticizing the new looks, but Spike's girlfriend? A token supporting character a of token supporting character on a cartoon that was contrived just to sell toys that were thrown together from handfuls of other toylines?

Leonardo wrote:

Seibertron wrote:No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)

That last one is one thing that bothers me. I hope it has some explanation in the movie, because right now it seems like a major plot hole.

If they can just transform into whatever, then why would any of them have a lesser alternate form? Wouldn't they all just scan whatever? Or each other for that matter?

Bumblebee: "Oh hey, look Prime! Starscream has a better alternate form than I have. He's kicking my ass! I'm going to scan him so that I can be an F-22 Raptor to kick his ass!"

Optimus Prime: "Are you sure that's what you want to be today? Maybe you should become a Stealth Bomber or something that has more firepower than Starscream."

And so on. You get the point.

Leonardo wrote:I don't understand the lack of humanoid faces, though. They do have humanoid faces, and with Prime now having a removeable faceplate, his face looks even more humanoid.

If monster faces qualify as humanoid faces, then you are correct. By humanoid faces, I'm referring to something with an actual face ... you know like what we have. Eyes. Nose. Mouth. Things that Transformers have had for 23 years until now. Megatron with fangs? C'mon ...

Leonardo wrote:I can't believe you criticised characters being created for plot devices when that often happens in Transformers (not to mention repaints being created for money!). I also can't believe the flames are still an issue.

It's not that any one of these things is an issue to me. It's that collectively I look at all of these things and wonder "WTF?" You're absolutely right, the Transformers cartoons of the past have often had characters that served nothing more than plot devices. I had somehow expected that the characters would be treated with a little more dignity in this area. I'm sure someone's going to come along and say that it's hypocritical of me to say this regarding the plot devices but not about the other things that I'm bringing up. I don't like the Decepticons just being cannon fodder for a storyline. The Decepticons are not monsters. They have just as unique of personalities as do the Autobots. Show the Decepticon characters some respect!

Leonardo wrote:I think Cybertron being destroyed is a good idea. It's working well in the IDW-verse.

Not a fan of it either way though it's a great way for someone to turn this into a political debate by saying "omigod ... look what the Transformers did to their homeworld. We better do something else here on Earth with global warming or whatever crisis is hot at the moment so that we don't destroy our planet as well."

Booda wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)

Seriously, do half the people who remember the toys and/or cartoon even know who Carly is? I have a friend whose Transformers collection was actually BIGGER than my own when we were children, and I can guarentee you if I asked him about Carly today he'd have no idea what I was talking about.

Nit. Pick.

I can understand criticizing the new looks, but Spike's girlfriend? A token supporting character a of token supporting character on a cartoon that was contrived just to sell toys that were thrown together from handfuls of other toylines?

I don't consider it to be a nitpick. Would anyone have criticised this choice had the character been blonde and Carly? What's the big deal if they had gone that route.

I'd also certainly not say that Carly was a minor character. Here's her episode list (she appeared in 9 out of 98 U.S. episodes). That's almost 10% of those episodes which is a lot more than most Transformers characters can say.

Transformers G1 Ep #22 - The Immobilizer
Transformers G1 Ep #37 - Desertion Of The Dinobots Part 1
Transformers G1 Ep #38 - Desertion Of The Dinobots Part 2
Transformers G1 Ep #39 - Blaster Blues
Transformers G1 Ep #55 - Hoist Goes To Hollywood
Transformers G1 Ep #61 - Cosmic Rust
Transformers G1 Ep #0 - Scramble City
Transformers G1 Ep #66 - The Five Faces of Darkness (1)
Transformers G1 Ep #78 - Madman's Paradise
Transformers G1 Ep #84 - Nightmare Planet

Headmasters Ep #1 - Four Warriors Come Out of the Sky
Headmasters Ep #6 - Approach of the Demon Meteorite
Headmasters Ep #13 - Head On, Fortress Maximus
Headmasters Ep #14 - Explosion on Mars!! Maximus is in Danger
Headmasters Ep #17 - SOS from Planet Sandra
Headmasters Ep #18 - The Most Important Thing in the World
Headmasters Ep #24 - The Death of Ultra Magnus
Headmasters Ep #26 - I Risk My Life for Earth
Headmasters Ep #28 - The Miracle Warriors - The Targetmasters (Part 2)
Headmasters Ep #32 - My Friend Sixshot!
Headmasters Ep #35 - The Final Showdown On Earth (Part 2)
Headmasters Ep #34 - The Final Showdown On Earth (Part 1)

She's in over 16% of Japanese series through Headmasters including Scramble City and the Movie. That's quite a bit for a "minor" character, not to mention she's the WIFE of Spike and the MOTHER of Daniel, both who are also major characters.

For myself, I just want to say that honestly, I really am looking forward to this movie. And I was actually okay with Prime's design. In fact, it really started to grow on me, but the face-plate is trademark for him. Now, I AM glad it's still gonna be included, and it might be cool when he gets ready to go into battle mode to see his face change, kinda like *faceplate comes in* "now it's gettin' serious!", and Prime just tears it up! Still, if I feel that my favorite character, the one I cried about losing in the animated movie, gets changed to the point that he's not himself, I have a right to be concerned, even upset. Again, I'd go so far as to say his faceplate might even give him more emotion. It's kind of up to the viewer's imagination to feel his emotion, and I think it actually forces the viewer to relate to him more. Like with Darth Vader, it seems strange, but I think we can all agree that his inanimate face somehow had a lot of emotion. Not because of what you SAW, but because of what you KNEW was behind the mask. Not to mention, you DO have the eyes, and as the old saying goes, the eyes are the windows to the soul. And this is Prime! Most of us know what he is all about, and I'm sure a lot of non-fans do too. Prime can be standing absolutely still, and I'm in awe. And as someone else said here, his faceplate makes him a bit stoic. So, no mouth needed.

I still can't believe ALL of the Decepticon designs. How can anyone hate a villian they have no respect for? That IS why people usually get so frustrated with the bad guy, because he's actually good at what he does and he's believable about it. Those Decepticons aren't too believable as villains, they're just ugly. Now I'll admit, I'm speaking a bit early, and maybe they really did a good job in making Megatron Megatron, purely from a character standpoint. But still, I'm not gonna be able to relate very well to characters that look like THAT.

I think what is frustrating to some people is the complexity of the designs. Now I'm sure the movie designers were thinking viewers would be blown away by it, and I'm sure it takes a strong effort to render them, but I think it just makes things confusing in the end. For instance, ON Prime's mouth, there are SO many lines and planes, it's almost hard to tell where the mouth IS. In the movie-makers' defense, these are stills, and in motion the concept may work better. But, as with any movie, too much of anything (complexity, action, romance) can sometimes be detrimental.

And yes, this is a $150 million dollar live action movie, so if you want to recover some of those funds, it's probably not a good idea to upset the original fans that, in all truth, were the ones who even made this effort possible or desired, by screwing too much with the original material that DID make this brand so iconic. Otherwise, you might hurt yourself two ways, by confusing and just turning off non-fans, and upsetting the fans and losing their support.

Finally, I just want to say, at least for myself, and for most here on this thread, we're not attacking you, so stop acting like toddlers and demeaning us by calling us whiners. We have FEELINGS (the same thing you all seem to be so concerned about) and we simply want to express them. It's fine if you like Prime the way he is. I'm not attacking anyone else's viewpoint, just expressing my own as a LONG time Prime fan and one who feels I deserve at least a say. All you do is look ignorant when you insult our thoughts. Say what you feel, but don't insult us in the process. Otherwise, you have nothing to say. And for those of you who have a problem with what Seibertron says, keep in mind he DID see a sneek peak of the flick...

Interesting, for a thread all about the great Optimus Prime, some of these posts sure aren't in the spirit of him...

1337W422102 wrote:

For Gondor! wrote:I can't believe they managed to totally screw up even Optimus Prime because of one man's hubris..

Now THAT the One First Post to Rule Them All.
Welcome to Seibertron, mate. It was made in a factory that handles nuts.

Cheers.

Actually, since Optimus Primal has been brought up quite a few times...

The original 'ultra gorilla' Optimus Primal toy didn't have a mouth. It had a regular and pretty accurate Prime head, just with slightly different antennae. If memory serves, the Primal/Megatron 2-pack pack-in comic released previously had established these characters as the Prime and Megatron of G1 and G2 fame, in the far future. Primal and Megatron were eventually revealed to be new characters, but at this point they were the same guys.

Then the first episodes of Beast Wars aired and Primal suddenly had a mouth, not to mention he was about half the size he ought to have been relative to the other Maximals based on the toys. I wasn't online while all this was happening, and I doubt any old-schoolers around here remember the reaction on usenet. I wonder how many folk decided there and then that the series was even more doomed to abysmal failure than it was before. Trukk not munky and so forth.

Ah well.

-Nick

SdazVarence wrote:You know what guys. Stop whining and bitching about the **** mouth. Optimus Primal had a Mouth in Beastwars, no one didnt mind.
Optimus Prime had a Mouth in Transformers Cybertron. No one didnt mind.

Oh yeah and in BOTH instances (Though only shown once in BW) They can activate a face plate to make them more traditional (And hey, Its a spiffy feature on the Cybertron Figure)

So you know what. they ARENT deviating from the designs you moron Purists! They are taken what has been done already and working with it....Optimus has had a mouth in the past....and yuou know WHAT!? Even the G1 optimus probably had a mouth, he just had the faceplate up the whole time. (Didnt have the face plate back when he was Orion Pax...he had a mouth)

So again. Shut up....and think before you start slandering this movie!!!! They arent deviating from anything....

Again one more point out. In Cybertron. OPTIMUS'S MOUTH WAS VISIBLE WHEN NOT IN COMBAT, AND EVEN DURING COMBAT IT WAS VISIBLE AND THE FACEPLATE WAS USED FOR HIS BATTLEMODE!

My apologies for my language and tone in this post. But I can no long just sit by and watch as these assholes slander the movie without thinking that maybe. JUST MAYBE they havent been deviating much at all in some aspects.

1. This is not Beast Wars, and that is not Optimus Primal.

2. They are deviating extremely from any designs i have ever seen in any Transformers universe. Unless you are blind, anyone can see that. Expect " Woah, that does'nt look like Megatron" when you go to see the movie.

3. Technically, Orion Pax was not the leader of the Autobots, Optimus Prime was.

4. TF Cybertron wasn't that good. The Figures were O.K., but i glued Primes face plate into place. The mouth looked rediculus.

5. By saying no one didn't mind, you're just backing up the argument you seem to be opposing.

Seibertron wrote: you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

And people wonder why fans get upset. It's a laundry list of omissions and deletions, not just the odd controversial issue. When the changes pile up like that it's no wonder people get upset and yet you get called unreasonable if you speak out.

Shin Optimus Prime wrote:And for those of you who have a problem with what Seibertron says, keep in mind he DID see a sneek peak of the flick...

Interesting, for a thread all about the great Optimus Prime, some of these posts sure aren't in the spirit of him...

This is true, I did indeed see the video clip of Prime sans shield while he and the Autobots were at the Witwicky house while Sam and Mikeala were looking for Archibald Witwicky's glasses. It was very distracting. The whole time I was hoping that this was just them debating about whether or not to include the face shield. I did everything I could to keep focused on his eyes because I was trying to tell what emotion his eyes were showing. All I could think of when I'd look at his mouth is how he looked like Masterpiece Prime with the face shield removed (if you've not seen the picture of MP Prime minus the face shield, look around on the net for the picture. It looks pretty ridiculous).

For Gondor! wrote:

Seibertron wrote: you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

And people wonder why fans get upset. It's a laundry list of omissions and deletions, not just the odd controversial issue. When the changes pile up like that it's no wonder people get upset and yet you get called unreasonable if you speak out.

And that's just a short list of some of the most common topics that come up. I've got plenty more but I'm trying to maintain a positive attitude.

Meh, big surprise. At leas the faceplate isn't gone completely. I'm over it, simply because these aren't the G1 characters. I could live with Cybertron Prime's mouth, I can live with Movie Prime's.

Yeah, MP Convoy's choppers aren't that Primelike. At least they made modding him into an evil character a little bit easier!

Seibertron wrote:If they can just transform into whatever, then why would any of them have a lesser alternate form? Wouldn't they all just scan whatever? Or each other for that matter?

Bumblebee: "Oh hey, look Prime! Starscream has a better alternate form than I have. He's kicking my ass! I'm going to scan him so that I can be an F-22 Raptor to kick his ass!"

Optimus Prime: "Are you sure that's what you want to be today? Maybe you should become a Stealth Bomber or something that has more firepower than Starscream."

And so on. You get the point.

Agreed. That's essentially my thinking on the transcanning, to be frank.

Seibertron wrote:If monster faces qualify as humanoid faces, then you are correct. By humanoid faces, I'm referring to something with an actual face ... you know like what we have. Eyes. Nose. Mouth. Things that Transformers have had for 23 years until now. Megatron with fangs? C'mon ...

Honestly, I think they are humanoid, for the most part. Two eyes, noses, mouths, and the compositions of those features. Certainly, in some cases the proportions aren't accurate, but they're roughly there. I'd say they're humanoid, but not human, if that makes sense.

Seibertron wrote:It's not that any one of these things is an issue to me. It's that collectively I look at all of these things and wonder "WTF?" You're absolutely right, the Transformers cartoons of the past have often had characters that served nothing more than plot devices. I had somehow expected that the characters would be treated with a little more dignity in this area. I'm sure someone's going to come along and say that it's hypocritical of me to say this regarding the plot devices but not about the other things that I'm bringing up. I don't like the Decepticons just being cannon fodder for a storyline. The Decepticons are not monsters. They have just as unique of personalities as do the Autobots. Show the Decepticon characters some respect!

Yes, I can't argue with that. I had hoped that with there being a relatively small cast (compared to previous TF fiction) we would have more development, more character, at least to the level of BW. I was hoping the Decepticons would have very real personalities. Now, the TF's have never been wonderfully literary or exceptionally deep, and I haven't read the final script obviously, but I don't think that early draft really respected the best of previous TF fiction (eg., BW, BM or some of the comics). I hope that we do get some personality in the final cut.

Seibertron wrote:Not a fan of it either way though it's a great way for someone to turn this into a political debate by saying "omigod ... look what the Transformers did to their homeworld. We better do something else here on Earth with global warming or whatever crisis is hot at the moment so that we don't destroy our planet as well."

Yes, I can see that political message being snuck in. Not too sure how I feel about that. If they explicitly state it, I'll be annoyed.

For Gondor! wrote:

Seibertron wrote: you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

And people wonder why fans get upset. It's a laundry list of omissions and deletions, not just the odd controversial issue. When the changes pile up like that it's no wonder people get upset and yet you get called unreasonable if you speak out.

It's a shame. People are learning bad behavior from that intolerant numb-skull some people call the president. Trade you free opinions for "protection". Trying to conquer other civilizations in order to secure your own energy needs....hmm, sounds like the Decepticons.

Seibertron wrote:

For Gondor! wrote:

Seibertron wrote: you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

And people wonder why fans get upset. It's a laundry list of omissions and deletions, not just the odd controversial issue. When the changes pile up like that it's no wonder people get upset and yet you get called unreasonable if you speak out.

And that's just a short list of some of the most common topics that come up. I've got plenty more

True. No Welker and the overall design aesthetic are very high on my list of complaints. At what point does it stop becoming Transformers when you keep stripping away more and more of the readily identifiable aspects of the show/comics?

Seibertron wrote:No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)

Here's another ... FRANK WELKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't believe I didn't have him at the top of the list. At least Activision knows what we want.