Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

For me those photos show enough, and a couple things specifically are confirmed:

1. Swoop as a voyager would've been much too small for bot mode.
2. That older version's dino mode scales well with SS86 Grimlock's dino mode, but that's all the way down at a deluxe class.
Which is what I mentioned before-- Swoop's mass shifting is relatively similar (although opposite) of Sludge's.
There's just no way one figure can get the scale of both modes correct.

SS86 Swoop's dino mode is going to be too big compared to the others' dino modes, no question.
But it still would've been too big as a voyager, and with that, the bot mode would've looked ridiculously too small.

I don't think it will be that big, it's mostly going to be in the wingspan that makes it seem larger.

Till-all-R1 wrote:I don't think it will be that big, it's mostly going to be in the wingspan that makes it seem larger.

I think he'll be that big, but they'll use a simpler transformation and smaller parts count to allow for larger wings to fit on the same number of sprues as the rest of the Dinobots.

Emerje

Till-all-R1 wrote:I don't think it will be that big, it's mostly going to be in the wingspan that makes it seem larger.

Yeah we’ll see…
My main point was that in dino mode Swoop will not scale the way he did with the others in the show/movie.

If the figure follows the character model drawings, this dino-bird is going to have a pretty decent size.
I’m hoping that the separating/condensing torso is a part of the design;
The bot arms (not necessarily the shoulders) should have a similar length and volume as the others’.
If the arms aren’t going to tuck into the torso, then hopefully the torso does collapse/condense for dino mode.
But the dino mode still uses the entire height of the torso, including the waist.
It’s probably possible, but not likely that if the torso does condense, that the waist also condenses and tucks up into the torso.
So look at the torso and waist of any of the 3 that have been released (or Snarl’s for that matter),
And those are basically showing us the relative size of Swoop’s dino body.
It’s all opinion, but that’s going to be substantially bigger than Airazor or Terrorsaur, and should also make any of the ER seeker’s jet modes look pretty shrimpy.

And none of this stuff are complaints from me…
It’s not going to bother me one bit that the dino modes won’t be in scale with what is seen in the show/movie.

Here’s one more example of Swoop’s mass/size shifting that won’t be possible for the figure:
In the movie after the Dinobots clashed with Devastator, with one running (not jumping or flying) stride, Megatron basically steps over Swoop. With ease.
I’m confidently assuming that’s not going to be the case (with sizes) once we get Swoop in-hand.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm not even sure deluxe or voyager scale well in dino mode, and definitely not in bot mode:


For reference, Energon Swoop is the same height as Netflix Soundwave, who admittedly is a little short for a voyager, even by today's standards.

I'm sure Leader Swoop will be fine, but I think a fairer Voyager comparison would be Kingdom Cyclonus (a large voyager) next to the SS86 Dinobots. Voyager Swoop could have worked, but Leader will work as well.

Snarl review is back up on chefatrons page

I cannot wait to have this SS86 Snarl…
He is clearly going to be the collecting highlight of 2023 for me.
From what I’ve seen now, I really am believing he’ll be the best of these first 4.

-edit-

Just watched the PvP review, and the other photos somehow skewed the proportions of the figures—
in this video it was very clear that Snarl isn’t bigger than Grimlock.
And Slag isn’t either. Sludge may be in a few aspects, but all of these are right in scale with each other.
From what I saw Grimlock’s shoulders are bigger than Snarl’s even if his torso isn’t quite as broad overall. I also didn’t notice a substantial difference in that area either.

So, while I am not a collector of SS. I do like to follow its news, and enjoy seeing the toys on shelf in store, and hope that fans of the live action franchise, as well as TF:TM eventually get a nice representation of every character possible.

Now, that being said; I’ve been content to believe that many WFC/Legacy toys could very much be SS (in spirit), since we know this happened at least during Kingdom. But when one of the producers recently stated that (paraphrasing here) “If we ever did a SS 86 Soundwave, it would not be a re release of the Walmart/Netflix ER version, I’d want to develop a whole new mold to match the height of *Kingdom* Blaster” that really made me think. Also it explains why we are getting Ironhide and Ratchet as new mold Voyagers (when ER were good enough at least for me), but then also to make them readily available.

So, with the recent crop of Rumors, I’d like to review the entire list of characters in TF:TM, and see where we stand:

What we have so far:
Haslab Unicron
Pulsecon 2020 Pit of Judgement
86-01 Jazz
86-02 Kup
86-03 Blurr
86-04 Hot Rod
86-05 Scourge
86-06 Grimlock
86-07 Slag
86-08 Gnaw
86-09 Wreck-Gar
86-10 Sweep
86-11 Perceptor
86-12 Coronation Starscream
86-13 Cliffjumper
86-14 Junkyard
86-15 Sludge
Core Spike in ExoSuit
86-16 Arcee
86-17 Ironhide
Core Wheelie
Core Rumble

What we know is coming Eventually:
Core Frenzy
Brawn
Hound
Ratchet
Snarl
Swoop
Ultra Magnus

Other characters in TF:TM
Optimus Prime (ER Prime Retool with new Trailer, or all new CC toy?)
Megatron (All new toy required. Should only be true to TF:TM, or it shouldn’t happen)
Kingdom Rodimus Prime (already SS86 in spirit)
Springer (Siege Toy minus battle damage would be fine for SS86)
Kingdom Blaster & Eject (already SS86 in spirit)
ER Prowl (already SS86 in spirit, but would get a re-release due to limited availability)
ER/Netflix Bumblebee (already SS86 in spirit, but would get a re-release due to limited availability)
ER Wheeljack (already SS86 in spirit)
ER Grapple (already SS86 in spirit)
Kingdom Huffer (already SS86 in spirit)
ER Sunstreaker (already SS86 in spirit, but would get a re-release due to limited availability, possibly color corrected from recent rumor list)
ER Bluestreak (already SS86 in spirit)
Legacy (clean deco) Galvatron (already SS86 in spirit)
Kingdom Cyclonus (already SS86 in spirit)
Netflix ER Soundwave Ravage & Laserbeak (Evidently not good enough for a SS86 re-release per one of the producers)
Siege Ratbat (already SS86 in spirit) *if truly gang molded with Frenzy, could get a core re-release?
Constructicons/Devastator (I know this is controversial, but I think UW is SS86 worthy)
Siege Astrotrain (already SS86 in spirit)
Siege Shockwave (already SS86 in spirit minus extra bits for Leader)
ER Thrust/Dirge/ Ramjet (coneheads) (already SS86 in spirit, but would get a re-release due to limited availability)
ER Thundercracker & Skywarp (already SS86 in spirit)
Legacy Insecticons (already SS86 in spirit)
Reflector (Probably a heavy Siege retool to more resemble the alt mode from the animation)
Steeljaw & Ramhorn (new toys need to be developed)
Windcharger (new toy needs to be developed)
ER Allicon (already SS86 in Spirit)
ER Quintesson (already SS86 in spirit, see Pit of Judgement)
Arblus/Kranix (Other Lithonians?) (new toys to be developed)
Core Daniel in Exo Suit (slight SS86 Core Spike Recolor)

Again, this is just my opinion, I'm sure many of you have your thoughts. In any case, it seems we are still a ways off from completing the entire cast of TF:TM, unless those "SS86 in spirit" releases remain as such.

I would make the suggestion of doing a redeco of Cyberverse deluxe class Prowl for the SS86 line. I feel it's a better figure all around.

I don’t think there are many characters who need “SS86 treatment”…
I would’ve liked them all to have been made in this spirit, but with the last mainline trilogy, that wasn’t really an option.

I would like to see any character who’s figure had limited availability to get another shot, and included in future SS86 waves, which should be possible now that the mainline is branching-out even more into other series.
Obviously this isn’t probably going to happen this way.

Other than that, I would like new, SS86 versions of:
Shockwave
Astrotrain
Megatron (a new mold, that may have a tank alt mode, but looks more G1 in bot mode).

Reflector is one like Beachcomber and Gears that could fill a G1 character slot in the mainline.
An idea for them would be to sell them in a 3 pack for leader class cost.


Also,
There has been some leaked 2024 SS listings, and Swoop was included being Leader class.
Obvsly this is rumor, but Swoop happening is a no-brainer.
Imo, him being leader class is also a given at this point, but there seems to now be some possible evidence that this is in fact what’s happening.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Reflector is one like Beachcomber and Gears that could fill a G1 character slot in the mainline.
An idea for them would be to sell them in a 3 pack for leader class cost.

A box set of three deluxe class figures is not the same price as a leader. We know this because they made one for Reflector just a few years ago, and it's still available at its original cost at some online retailers.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Reflector is one like Beachcomber and Gears that could fill a G1 character slot in the mainline.
An idea for them would be to sell them in a 3 pack for leader class cost.

A box set of three deluxe class figures is not the same price as a leader. We know this because they made one for Reflector just a few years ago, and it's still available at its original cost at some online retailers.

But a set based on the G1 animation would mean 2 figures would literally be identical.
So a 3 pack could be similar to getting the 4 Creatures Collide figures for $75.
It could also sway people who had even 1 Seige Refraktor figure, because it is a good deal.
For me, another pull would be getting them all in a single purchase.
Not saying this will ever really happen… It’s extremely unlikely.
But it does seem a bit unreasonable to buy 3 deluxe figures (2 that are identical & 1 that’s most likely a retool), and be roughly $15-ish away from equaling Commander Class price.

I definitely echo the need/want for a new Astrotrain, Siege is okay but I don't care for the Aesthetics in alt mode. Too messy looking. And I'm not about to lay down $55 on something I'm not happy with just to have a representation in my collection.

I'm not sure Shockwave needs to be all new, the Siege one is suitable. Plus Hasbro isn't going to make a G1 accurate alt mode, even if it's a fake space blaster and not based on a real gun, so I don't see the point really.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Also,
There has been some leaked 2024 SS listings, and Swoop was included being Leader class.
Obvsly this is rumor, but Swoop happening is a no-brainer.
Imo, him being leader class is also a given at this point, but there seems to now be some possible evidence that this is in fact what’s happening.

Just an FYI, while it was rumours initially, it's no longer a rumour. We have actual listings from distributors and shipping manifest that Swoop is a leader.

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Also,
There has been some leaked 2024 SS listings, and Swoop was included being Leader class.
Obvsly this is rumor, but Swoop happening is a no-brainer.
Imo, him being leader class is also a given at this point, but there seems to now be some possible evidence that this is in fact what’s happening.

Just an FYI, while it was rumours initially, it's no longer a rumour. We have actual listings from distributors and shipping manifest that Swoop is a leader.

Oh nice.
Again, figured it was happening, but last I remember seeing was that he’s planned for 2024; no other details.
Thanks for sharing the info.
Having official word is awesome.

Till-all-R1 wrote:I definitely echo the need/want for a new Astrotrain, Siege is okay but I don't care for the Aesthetics in alt mode. Too messy looking. And I'm not about to lay down $55 on something I'm not happy with just to have a representation in my collection.

Exactly... 100% with you on this. I also thought the Seige greebling was way over-done on him.
I would love a brand-new mold for this guy, and if they can add him to the SS86 line-up, I'm sure I'd love it even more.

Till-all-R1 wrote:I'm not sure Shockwave needs to be all new, the Siege one is suitable. Plus Hasbro isn't going to make a G1 accurate alt mode, even if it's a fake space blaster and not based on a real gun, so I don't see the point really.

Imo a fake purple space blaster gives Hastak enough wiggle room to make that as Shockwave's alt mode.
I don't think the Seige version looked horribly bad, but I'm pretty sure it could be better.

o.supreme wrote:In any case, it seems we are still a ways off from completing the entire cast of TF:TM, unless those "SS86 in spirit" releases remain as such.

You hit the nail here. SS86 was overflow from Kingdom when the Beasts joined the fray, and it continues as overflow from Legacy. Those SS86 in spirit and SS86 are the same thing. I would not expect all of those to get remade in SS86, especially given the smaller size of the Studio Series line in general compared to WFC/Legacy.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:In any case, it seems we are still a ways off from completing the entire cast of TF:TM, unless those "SS86 in spirit" releases remain as such.

You hit the nail here. SS86 was overflow from Kingdom when the Beasts joined the fray, and it continues as overflow from Legacy. Those SS86 in spirit and SS86 are the same thing. I would not expect all of those to get remade in SS86, especially given the smaller size of the Studio Series line in general compared to WFC/Legacy.

I would add that the only ones that got the double dip so far had specific reasons, being Ratchet and Ironhide. The ER versions were not "good enough" to be considered SS86 since they had the reused parts from Siege, specificlly the feet that ruin the alt mode for screen accuracy. The ER versions just weren't SS86 enough. So far the only other bot I can see as fitting for another update so soon would be Soundwave to remove the landing gear from his forearms. My bet is Hasbro considers that the main reason for a new mold if they go the SS86 route and the height comment was just something to say and show they are listening to fan feedback.

Is the Commander Class Magnus supposedly planned for a 2023 release?
I didn't think so based on the SS leaks I've seen.

Other than him, there's still a chance of an Optimus Prime, and Soundwave...
I'm not sure there's much more this subline can deliver.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Is the Commander Class Magnus supposedly planned for a 2023 release?
I didn't think so based on the SS leaks I've seen.

Other than him, there's still a chance of an Optimus Prime, and Soundwave...
I'm not sure there's much more this subline can deliver.

He was a 2023 leak, but who knows for sure?

After seeing what the leader magnus consists of I honestly can't imagine why a Commander version is needed, other than to soak and extra $40 from the same character we've seen in the line countless time before. And most likely reusing existing version that previously sold for much less.

Maybe the trailer could be done better, but $40 worth?? Frankly it's a waste of a Commander slot IMO, and I'd rather see something more fitting go there. Heck, Bots like Jetfire are going to need a new Class if Leaders can become Commander with a very minor tooling addition. Though I guess they could just move him and the like to Titan Class. lol

Till-all-R1 wrote:After seeing what the leader magnus consists of I honestly can't imagine why a Commander version is needed, other than to soak and extra $40 from the same character we've seen in the line countless time before. And most likely reusing existing version that previously sold for much less.

Maybe the trailer could be done better, but $40 worth?? Frankly it's a waste of a Commander slot IMO, and I'd rather see something more fitting go there. Heck, Bots like Jetfire are going to need a new Class if Leaders can become Commander with a very minor tooling addition. Though I guess they could just move him and the like to Titan Class. lol

You might be right. But you might be wrong. Commander Class has delivered every single time so far. I'm willing to wait and see what comes of it, especially for Ultra Magnus.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Is the Commander Class Magnus supposedly planned for a 2023 release?
I didn't think so based on the SS leaks I've seen.

Other than him, there's still a chance of an Optimus Prime, and Soundwave...
I'm not sure there's much more this subline can deliver.

Here's the thing, if they do in fact release an SS-86 Magnus, then everything released in Earthrise and Kingdom that could be used for SS-86 at the time is now fair game for a new SS-86 version. We thought SS-86 Starscream was a one-off to include the coronation accessories, but with Magnus too, it means, Cyclonus, Galvatron, Prime, Prowl etc... could ostensibly get an SS-86 release. And if they do do SS-86 commander Magnus, I'm willing to bet we'll get an SS-86 Prime based on the Magnus cab.

Heck it would not surprise me if they re-released Rodimus Prime in SS-86 packaging just for kicks.

So, there's still a fair bit this sub line can deliver.

Overcracker wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Is the Commander Class Magnus supposedly planned for a 2023 release?
I didn't think so based on the SS leaks I've seen.

Other than him, there's still a chance of an Optimus Prime, and Soundwave...
I'm not sure there's much more this subline can deliver.

Here's the thing, if they do in fact release an SS-86 Magnus, then everything released in Earthrise and Kingdom that could be used for SS-86 at the time is now fair game for a new SS-86 version. We thought SS-86 Starscream was a one-off to include the coronation accessories, but with Magnus too, it means, Cyclonus, Galvatron, Prime, Prowl etc... could ostensibly get an SS-86 release. And if they do do SS-86 commander Magnus, I'm willing to bet we'll get an SS-86 Prime based on the Magnus cab.

Heck it would not surprise me if they re-released Rodimus Prime in SS-86 packaging just for kicks.

So, there's still a fair bit this sub line can deliver.

I wouldn't assume new versions of any of those guys. Yes, we had Kingdom Magnus, but he was just a retool of the Siege figure and came up short in a few respects. Cyclonus and Galvatron were released alongside Scourge and the Sweeps, and unlike Magnus, were new molds consistent with SS86 design principles. We even got the damage-free Galvatron repaint in Legacy. Prime is obvious, Prowl is plausible, and I expect Springer too. Beyond that, I don't think any of the recent figures are slam dunks for updates.