The Energon Pub

[Rodimus Prime]

and I suppose overall it's better than Star Trek 2009 more or less

So you think The Force Awakens was better than Star Trek? Seriously? I mean, I guess to each his own...

This may not be very P.C. and so I apologize in advance but Kylo Ren is a bit to much like one of those angst teenagers who dresses up like Neo and then goes on a killing spree.

No need to apologize, because you're right. That's exactly what he was. He was a brat with an inferiority complex and serious daddy issues who dressed in black and lashed out violently any time he didn't get his way. Every time he threw a tantrum and destroyed something with his lightsaber I laughed.

[ZeroWolf]

I think that was the point if how kylo was portrayed. He had a messed up background hence he was messed up, I get the feeling that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg of his psyche. Though I wonder what his training will turn him into by the end.

Also I'm another one who prefers force awakens over 2009 star trek. ..though to be fair I rather sit through most things than star trek 2009 (I can't get past why it exists, when it has no reason to, there was plenty of stories to tell in the original time line post voyager)

[Ironhidensh]

I caved. About to leave the house to go see it.

[SlyTF1]

and I suppose overall it's better than Star Trek 2009 more or less

So you think The Force Awakens was better than Star Trek? Seriously? I mean, I guess to each his own...

I liked that Star Trek movie when I first watched it, but when I tried to watch it again a few months ago, I couldn't get past the first 10 minutes without being bored out of my mind. Even the final battle was boring as all Hell.

[RAR]

I'm not saying Force Awakens is a bad Movie and I can totally get why some people will like it very much - It has good Character moments and I suppose if you have particular tastes in visual effects you may like the ending.

Overall though I currently find that it took more away from the Original Movie than it added to them - now that may change - it may be a situation that was often the case with the last Season of Doctor Who where part 1 was a bit meh and then then the next part or parts most fixed some of the issues some may have had with the innial part.

Frankly I expected to get people throwing brick bats at me for not being a huge cheerleader for the Movie I never expected to get them for saying I thought it was a slightly better movie than Star Trek 2009... I kind of thought that was well obvious.

Though if I must say something nice about Star Trek 2009 it at least made a brave choice or two I liked the Music for the most part and the pacing was good.

I suppose Ep7 and ST:2009 & Into Darkness do both try to be humorous - I don't know if there is anything as uncomfortable as the Inflated Kirk hands or "Aural Sensitivity" jokes though this time so that is a point in Force Awakens favour.

Pacing wise nothing much happens for the 1st 30 minutes in Force Awakens though so in that regard it's not unlike Return of the Jedi's Tatooine scenes.

I do wonder if the may have overplayed their hand a bit to early though with the idea of Skywalker Clan Males being whiny kids when they are younger.

[Ironhidensh]

Well, I was just woken up by a little man with a bad dream who needed some milk and hugs, so I'll drop my thoughts.

It was completely **** awesome. Star wars is important for me. The escapism it provided helped me through a really dark patch of my life, way back when I was a teenager. This movie really hit one out of the park. True, I had a couple of issues, but non big enough to take away from the pure enjoyment this film brought me.

I loved the new characters, and thought the old ones were handled great.

even though I should have seen it coming, Han's death caught me off gaurd. I like that his son did it, as we have a villain who won't just be a quick redemption back to the light.

Solo kid going dark? Should have just gone on and named him Jacen.

I'm guessing Smoat is the student who wrecked ****, as Kyle would have been too young?

Poe is going to be the Wedge we all wish we had seen in the movies. Also maybe my favorite new character.

Needs. More. Luke. I was hoping for just a little bit more from thar final scene.

I fell back asleep while writing this, so it's now morning instead of sleepy time. Nice.

[Stuartmaximus]

not really a spoiler! more of a speculation to episode 8 & 9


i think Luke could be killed at the hands of Darth Plagueis! now....whether that happens in ep 8 or 9 remains to be seen!

i'll tell you my theory why.....Plagueis could possess the ability to render the force in someone or someone's Jedi powers inert! but as fearsome & evil Kylo Ren is....i don't believe he has the power to do the same! now....if(& there's no guarantees that luke will go out that way....when the time comes) Luke were to be killed normally without affecting his Jedi powers first....then it wouldn't be as dramatic a scene! since we all know that he wouldn't really be dead & just return as a Force Ghost! but take those abilities/powers ect away first....& THEN kill him! that would make for more of a dramatic scene.....& one in which he wouldn't be able to return from(Force Ghost).

[ZeroWolf]

An interesting theory stu but is it canonical for plaugesis to have those abilities since the canon was purged of all expanded universe so if memory servesserved the only explanation of his powers comes from episode 3.

[Rodimus Prime]

Didn't Sidious tell Anakin in RoTS that he killed Plagueis?

[wilcosu35]

Didn't Sidious tell Anakin in RoTS that he killed Plagueis?

I recall he did, but i could be mistaken.

[Ironhidensh]

Didn't Sidious tell Anakin in RoTS that he killed Plagueis?

Yes, he did.

[ZeroWolf]

just to go on a side tangent from this plaguesis talk, JJ Abrams said today that ewan mcgregor and Alec guiness are in the Force Awakens.

Mcgregor came and spoke a couple of lines for Reys force dream and they took a word from the original movies from Alec and edited it into a new word.

[Stuartmaximus]

If Plaqueis somehow survived and Sidious didn't know it, it wouldn't make Tyrannus think he was a Sith and not actually be one. People were probably always screwing with the Rule of 2 anyway. If you read and liked the novel "Darth Plagueis" then you know that Darth Maul was a gray area. He may have thought he was a Sith, but Sidious didn't regard him as one. He was just Sidious' enforcer, because Sidious still had a master until right about the time that Maul died.

[Rodimus Prime]

McGregor came and spoke a couple of lines for Rey's force dream and they took a word from the original movies from Alec and edited it into a new word.

If I go see it again, I'll be listening. Didn't catch it the 1st time.

As for Plagueis, I suppose Sidious could have been lying just to further manipulate Anakin.

And I wonder how George Lucas came up with these names. I mean, what's wrong with calling them Bob and Dave?

[ZeroWolf]

Is that Darth Plagusis novel still counted as canon though? At the moment I'd stick to information from the movies only. Oh and the new Clone Wars cartoon and Rebels cartoon

[Burn]

Is that Darth Plagusis novel still counted as canon though?

If it was released prior to the Disney purchase, then no.

[SlyTF1]

Why does everyone think that Darth Plagueis has anything to do with anything? He was killed years before any of the movies ever started.

[Stuartmaximus]

Why does everyone think that Darth Plagueis has anything to do with anything? He was killed years before any of the movies ever started.

According to Sidious, Plagueis was powerful enough that he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life and keep those he cared about from dying

so maybe he brought himself back to life somehow?


but.............if not Plagueis.........then Darth Bane!




hey! it's science fiction fantasy after all!

[SW's SilverHammer]

Why does everyone think that Darth Plagueis has anything to do with anything? He was killed years before any of the movies ever started.

According to Sidious, Plagueis was powerful enough that he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life and keep those he cared about from dying

so maybe he brought himself back to life somehow?


but.............if not Plagueis.........then Darth Bane!




hey! it's science fiction fantasy after all!

It's plagueis, in the EU it was established he was powerful enough to pull some voldemort style **** and survive. In fact palpatine had his doubts that plagueis was dead. There are some elements of the new cannon cherry picked from the old EU, so it wouldn't surprise me of Plagueis was one of those elements.

[Stuartmaximus]

see SlyTF1! even SW's SilverHammer thinks it's Plagueis.

[ZeroWolf]

Actually stu, plaugesis is dead according to ep 3 especially if anything of his back story is no longer canon (a point you keep avoiding), this all hinges on Snoake, his motives and his true identify. . If he has one. So far there is no evidence to say that he is plaguesis over then a theory that he's actually jar jar binks or that he's the emperor who somehow survived the death star exploding.

As fun as it is to theroise we have to remember the facts that the movies give us to work with.

[Ironhidensh]

Is that Darth Plagusis novel still counted as canon though?

If it was released prior to the Disney purchase, then no.

It was and it doesn't.

[Stuartmaximus]

Actually stu, plaugesis is dead according to ep 3 especially if anything of his back story is no longer canon (a point you keep avoiding), this all hinges on Snoake, his motives and his true identify. . If he has one. So far there is no evidence to say that he is plaguesis over then a theory that he's actually jar jar binks or that he's the emperor who somehow survived the death star exploding.

As fun as it is to theroise we have to remember the facts that the movies give us to work with.

ok if your going with that then....how do you explain Darth Maul? hmm.......coz he was killed in the movie....FACT! but was he? coz he came back in episodes of The Clone Wars.

let's look at other example....take The Avengers.....Agent Coulson was killed in that movie......FACT! but again...was he? coz they managed to somehow bring Coulson back....in Agents Of Shield.

ok....last one......X-Men Days Of Future Past....a lot of characters died in that movie....FACT! but they hit the reset button! & hey presto....they're all back alive
again.


look...i get it.....but like you said.....it's fun to theorise.....you've got your theories....& i've got mine......but there's lot of people out there who've seen the movie that are more & more convinced that a particular character within The Force Awakens is indeed Plagueis! & you'd have a hard job convincing them otherwise! regardless of justifiable facts....or not.

but at the end of the day.....the truth obviously won't be revealed til either episode 8 or 9! which is quite a way off.

+ Star Wars is as i stated before....a Science Fiction Fantasy! so things like being able to bring people back from the dead....isn't outwith the realms of possibility!.....as it's not a true to life factual story.

oh one final thing......if your gonna argue Canon! then The Clone Wars is still Canon...& within that....they brought a dead character back to life(Darth Maul) so therefore....bringing dead characters back to life certainly already happened within the confines of what is considered Canon! yes i know Plagueis is in something that's outwith Canon, but the notion to resurrect characters within Canon has already happened(as i stated before) so going forward...it's not outwith the realms of possibility that they could one day try that again.

[ZeroWolf]

Stu, using the days of future past movie as an example isn't really the best as that movie uses time travel as a central plot element! It's just the same as Doc Brown surviving the first back to the future movie.

As for the other examples, darth maul was quite popular hence why the clone wars brought him back, Coulson was quite popular...see a pattern here? Is darth plaguesis popular? I doubt it, his book isn't cannon anymore. Current writers can borrow points from it bit they can just as easy make up new stuf like saying his real identity was barney the purple dinosaur, which would then become canon.

You seem very doggedly attached to this idea, why? I rather new things then dredging a name mentioned in one conversation of the last prequel movie.

[Stuartmaximus]

Stu, using the days of future past movie as an example isn't really the best as that movie uses time travel as a central plot element! It's just the same as Doc Brown surviving the first back to the future movie.

As for the other examples, darth maul was quite popular hence why the clone wars brought him back, Coulson was quite popular...see a pattern here? Is darth plaguesis popular? I doubt it, his book isn't cannon anymore. Current writers can borrow points from it bit they can just as easy make up new stuf like saying his real identity was barney the purple dinosaur, which would then become canon.

You seem very doggedly attached to this idea, why? I rather new things then dredging a name mentioned in one conversation of the last prequel movie.

& you seem to be very determined to convince me otherwise! even after you stating that it's fun to theorise! so why not allow people to run with their own theories?

anyway

The character was created by George Lucas as early as the first draft of Revenge of the Sith—dated April 2003—and possibly earlier than that. His story was massively expanded upon in the 2012 novel Darth Plagueis, written by James Luceno. However, that story is part of the Star Wars legends continuity, formerly known as the "Expanded Universe," and is therefore not official canon. The novel Tarkin, also by Luceno, includes a number of references to Plagueis and canonizes certain elements that had been introduced in the Darth Plagueis novel.

Darth Plagueis was first referenced on-screen in the 2005 movie Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith, the third installment in the prequel trilogy of Star Wars.However, the actual first mention of Plagueis was in the novel Labyrinth of Evil, which was released four months before the movie.

so Plagueis was created & referenced in material outwith & inside Canon! even though you state that Plagueis is NOT canon! now his death may have happened in material within Canon! & therefore like Maul....a resurrection may have been possible?


but like i said before.....we won’t find out the truth til either episode 8 or 9.


& with that




i rest my case