The Energon Pub

[Rodimus Prime]

the Ewok Movies - they need a good kicking and they rarely get one.

Is The Battle For Endor considered one? It's been a while since I saw it last, but I love that ball of 80s cheese.

Also, to all you uber-fans, I have a question. I was immersed in an hours-long conversation regarding the expanded universe of Star Wars. I have always been only a casual fan of the movies, but I am very interested in the events leading up to what's on the screen. My question is, although the EU has been rendered non-canon, is it still worth it to read the books that came out with the background stories? The book Into the Void was suggested to me as the starting point, as that describes the beginning of everything. I was also urged to watch "The Clone Wars" TV series, which I have never seen. I'm not much of a gamer, so I didn't play any of the video games. Maybe I should. Are there any essential games that came out for the PS2 or PS3? Come on, people. Here's your chance to build a fellow uber-fan from the ground up. You'll be my Sidious, I'll be your Vader.

[Burn]

The Clone Wars TV show IS good, takes a bit to get going though (and then ends up connecting to Rebels)

As far as the books go, I would say start with The Thrawn Trilogy, they're set post-ROTJ with the Rebellion and an Empire-in-disarray both scrambling to establish control.

[Rodimus Prime]

As far as the books go, I would say start with The Thrawn Trilogy, they're set post-ROTJ with the Rebellion and an Empire-in-disarray both scrambling to establish control.

I'm looking to get into how the Jedi and Sith got started, or at least their conflict did. Wouldn't I have to get books that deal with pre-TPM times?

[Stuartmaximus]

has Va'al seen it yet? if not.....i wonder what he'll think of BB8?

[ZeroWolf]

I know there was a dark horse comic series that focused on the beginnings of the jedi

[Stuartmaximus]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/23/st ... ns-spoiler

[Burn]

As far as the books go, I would say start with The Thrawn Trilogy, they're set post-ROTJ with the Rebellion and an Empire-in-disarray both scrambling to establish control.

I'm looking to get into how the Jedi and Sith got started, or at least their conflict did. Wouldn't I have to get books that deal with pre-TPM times?

There's comics that predate Jedi/Sith but are basically about the foundation of each belief system. I should have them on file at home some where.

In terms of Sith, check out of the Darth Bane novels as they deal with the shift from a culture of Sith to only two.

[Ironhidensh]

As far as the books go, I would say start with The Thrawn Trilogy, they're set post-ROTJ with the Rebellion and an Empire-in-disarray both scrambling to establish control.

I'm looking to get into how the Jedi and Sith got started, or at least their conflict did. Wouldn't I have to get books that deal with pre-TPM times?

There's comics that predate Jedi/Sith but are basically about the foundation of each belief system. I should have them on file at home some where.

In terms of Sith, check out of the Darth Bane novels as they deal with the shift from a culture of Sith to only two.

I wonder what Disney will do different? I still miss the EU....

[Burn]

An even longer time ago in a galaxy far far away ... 36,453 years before the Battle of Yavin to be precise.

Dawn of the Jedi from Dark Horse Comics.

There's three 5 issue mini-series. Force Storm, Prisoner of Bogan and Force War.

[Stuartmaximus]

how come the only Sith Lord to become a Force Ghost in the movies was Vader?(well......Anakin)

i haven't read any of the comics, books ect....so i dunno if any others became Force Ghosts on there!

but Dooku & Sidious never became Force Ghosts!(at least in the cinematic universe) even though Vader did!(Anakin)


which begs the question.....could in one of the future Star Wars movies.....Kylo Ren become a Force Ghost? & will that appear within the movie?.

[ZeroWolf]

how come the only Sith Lord to become a Force Ghost in the movies was Vader?(well......Anakin)

i haven't read any of the comics, books ect....so i dunno if any others became Force Ghosts on there!

but Dooku & Sidious never became Force Ghosts!(at least in the cinematic universe) even though Vader did!(Anakin)


which begs the question.....could in one of the future Star Wars movies.....Kylo Ren become a Force Ghost? & will that appear within the movie?.

Actually, Anakin became a force ghost because he went back to the light side when he chucked the emperor down that shaft. Si he stooped being a sith Lord and became a jedi knight again. So when he died he was a former sith Lord so the rules of no sith ghosts no longer applied. Hope that clears it up

[SlyTF1]

how come the only Sith Lord to become a Force Ghost in the movies was Vader?(well......Anakin)

i haven't read any of the comics, books ect....so i dunno if any others became Force Ghosts on there!

but Dooku & Sidious never became Force Ghosts!(at least in the cinematic universe) even though Vader did!(Anakin)


which begs the question.....could in one of the future Star Wars movies.....Kylo Ren become a Force Ghost? & will that appear within the movie?.

Actually, Anakin became a force ghost because he went back to the light side when he chucked the emperor down that shaft. Si he stooped being a sith Lord and became a jedi knight again. So when he died he was a former sith Lord so the rules of no sith ghosts no longer applied. Hope that clears it up

I always wondered why there are no Sith ghosts. Is there an official explanation?

[Ironhidensh]

how come the only Sith Lord to become a Force Ghost in the movies was Vader?(well......Anakin)

i haven't read any of the comics, books ect....so i dunno if any others became Force Ghosts on there!

but Dooku & Sidious never became Force Ghosts!(at least in the cinematic universe) even though Vader did!(Anakin)


which begs the question.....could in one of the future Star Wars movies.....Kylo Ren become a Force Ghost? & will that appear within the movie?.

Actually, Anakin became a force ghost because he went back to the light side when he chucked the emperor down that shaft. Si he stooped being a sith Lord and became a jedi knight again. So when he died he was a former sith Lord so the rules of no sith ghosts no longer applied. Hope that clears it up

I always wondered why there are no Sith ghosts. Is there an official explanation?

Not anymore, with the erasure of the EU. Before it was simply explained that when sith die, all the dark side energy simply expands outward. If they were powerful enough, they actually explode, like Palpatine.

[JazZeke]

I have sooo many thoughts about this movie, but I waited a couple days to narrow them down to the major points for me. I liked it, even if it was basically a plot clone of A New Hope.

The most annoying thing about the movie for me was the repeat in pattern for Jar Jar Abrams in not understanding the sheer scope of space. In a universe with space wizards and FTL drive, I can maybe swallow a cannon that can shoot across the galaxy, in a stretch. But seeing the ray from a THIRD planet and seeing the destruction of the target planet from there is BS. It would have taken the light from that explosion THOUSANDS of years to reach Planet C. There's no force magic or FTL tech accelerating the explosion, so it's the same FIRST GRADE SCIENCE gaffe that we saw in the Trek movies.

Between Kylo Ren and Shia LaBeef, I’m starting to think Harrison Ford is a terrible father. And when Kylo was sitting there praying to his grandfather’s helmet, why didn’t Anakin’s Force-ghost show up and just tell him to stop being such a little ****? Force ghosts are the most useless ghosts ever.

[ZeroWolf]

I have sooo many thoughts about this movie, but I waited a couple days to narrow them down to the major points for me. I liked it, even if it was basically a plot clone of A New Hope.

The most annoying thing about the movie for me was the repeat in pattern for Jar Jar Abrams in not understanding the sheer scope of space. In a universe with space wizards and FTL drive, I can maybe swallow a cannon that can shoot across the galaxy, in a stretch. But seeing the ray from a THIRD planet and seeing the destruction of the target planet from there is BS. It would have taken the light from that explosion THOUSANDS of years to reach Planet C. There's no force magic or FTL tech accelerating the explosion, so it's the same FIRST GRADE SCIENCE gaffe that we saw in the Trek movies.

Between Kylo Ren and Shia LaBeef, I’m starting to think Harrison Ford is a terrible father. And when Kylo was sitting there praying to his grandfather’s helmet, why didn’t Anakin’s Force-ghost show up and just tell him to stop being such a little SHIZZLESNIT? Force ghosts are the most useless ghosts ever.

To be fair to Harrison Ford, his kids always get the raw deal in his movies when they actually exist in the first place.

Also I think force ghosts can only visit people they know personally or something like that, so basically luke has his own ghost crew

[Shadowman]

I have sooo many thoughts about this movie, but I waited a couple days to narrow them down to the major points for me. I liked it, even if it was basically a plot clone of A New Hope.

The most annoying thing about the movie for me was the repeat in pattern for Jar Jar Abrams in not understanding the sheer scope of space. In a universe with space wizards and FTL drive, I can maybe swallow a cannon that can shoot across the galaxy, in a stretch. But seeing the ray from a THIRD planet and seeing the destruction of the target planet from there is BS. It would have taken the light from that explosion THOUSANDS of years to reach Planet C. There's no force magic or FTL tech accelerating the explosion, so it's the same FIRST GRADE SCIENCE gaffe that we saw in the Trek movies.

The beam itself was moving at FTL speed and all of the planets effected were in the same system.

[RAR]

I was watching a review and it made me realise the relationship of Kylo Ren is supposed to be a surprise - considering I was not actually looking for spoilers and still found that out months ago - I'm a little shocked that more people didn't know that going in.

I'm a bit disappointed that JJ is so ignorant of how light travels still.
I've been trying to figure out where the hell Spock was supposed to have been standing when he saw Vulcan in the sky large enough to appear a a moon sized object - it seems he arbitrarily made Vulcan have a a 3rd Co-Planet we'd not really heard about before. even though Spock made no mention of dumping Kirk on a Planet "Near" indeed in Vulcan space.

Not to mention what happens to the black hole like effect once it's eaten Vulcan does it suck in the rest of the 40 Eridani solar system in too it over time ?

I suppose the funny thing is that modern telescopes and clever physics can likely prove how many planetary bodies 40 Eridani has around it if not now then pretty soon.

So someone send JJ a High-schoolers text book on planetary science already!

[JazZeke]

I was watching a review and it made me realise the relationship of Kylo Ren is supposed to be a surprise - considering I was not actually looking for spoilers and still found that out months ago - I'm a little shocked that more people didn't know that going in.

I'm a bit disappointed that JJ is so ignorant of how light travels still.
I've been trying to figure out where the hell Spock was supposed to have been standing when he saw Vulcan in the sky large enough to appear a a moon sized object - it seems he arbitrarily made Vulcan have a a 3rd Co-Planet we'd not really heard about before. even though Spock made no mention of dumping Kirk on a Planet "Near" indeed in Vulcan space.

Not to mention what happens to the black hole like effect once it's eaten Vulcan does it suck in the rest of the 40 Eridani solar system in too it over time ?

I suppose the funny thing is that modern telescopes and clever physics can likely prove how many planetary bodies 40 Eridani has around it if not now then pretty soon.

So someone send JJ a High-schoolers text book on planetary science already!

And if Spock had been on a planet close enough to Vulcan for it to be THAT large in the sky (closer than Earth to Luna) then it too would have been, at best, flung out of the system into space by the sudden gravitational shift, at worst destroyed from the fallout.

And then in Into Darkness there was the Enterprise zipping back and forth between Earth and Q'onos (on the opposite side of known space) in two minutes, tops.

And, most annoyingly, Into Darkness has a half-hour standoff between the Enterprise and a Mystery Ship WITHIN ORBIT OF EARTH. You would think any of the other ships we saw in the fleet in orbit of Earth earlier in the movie would have come to investigate their flagship being attacked. That's like if someone was beating a secret serviceman to death in the back yard of the White House and NOBODY notices!

There's dumb action movies, and then there's just insulting the intelligence of your audience with failing at grade school science. It's why I considered "Kill the Moon" and "In the Forest of the Night" from Series Eight of Doctor Who to be the worst episodes ever.

[Ironhidensh]

Or maybe JJ realizes that, and doesn't care. Maybe he realizes that this is a movie, a fantasy one at that, and doesn't need to follow the "rules of physics" as we know them. Maybe also he realizes that 99.9% of the audience won't care, and that the .1% isn't worth catering to with hyper realistic, and bring, fantasy science.

Just saying.

[ZeroWolf]

I have problems with the star trek movies but bad science isn't one of them, I mean come on if everything was done realistically then the movies wouldn't be much fun (this is an important word).

Now, obviously some people do see it as important but I reckon that they aren't as big as the audience as those who don't care about those things.

Of course, everyone gets their own mileage but please, don't pretend that those are the most important aspects of movies in this genre (which for trek is almost a lot different than wars)

[Shadowman]

I was watching a review and it made me realise the relationship of Kylo Ren is supposed to be a surprise - considering I was not actually looking for spoilers and still found that out months ago - I'm a little shocked that more people didn't know that going in.

I'm a bit disappointed that JJ is so ignorant of how light travels still.
I've been trying to figure out where the hell Spock was supposed to have been standing when he saw Vulcan in the sky large enough to appear a a moon sized object - it seems he arbitrarily made Vulcan have a a 3rd Co-Planet we'd not really heard about before. even though Spock made no mention of dumping Kirk on a Planet "Near" indeed in Vulcan space.

Not to mention what happens to the black hole like effect once it's eaten Vulcan does it suck in the rest of the 40 Eridani solar system in too it over time ?

I suppose the funny thing is that modern telescopes and clever physics can likely prove how many planetary bodies 40 Eridani has around it if not now then pretty soon.

So someone send JJ a High-schoolers text book on planetary science already!

And if Spock had been on a planet close enough to Vulcan for it to be THAT large in the sky (closer than Earth to Luna) then it too would have been, at best, flung out of the system into space by the sudden gravitational shift, at worst destroyed from the fallout.

And then in Into Darkness there was the Enterprise zipping back and forth between Earth and Q'onos (on the opposite side of known space) in two minutes, tops.

And, most annoyingly, Into Darkness has a half-hour standoff between the Enterprise and a Mystery Ship WITHIN ORBIT OF EARTH. You would think any of the other ships we saw in the fleet in orbit of Earth earlier in the movie would have come to investigate their flagship being attacked. That's like if someone was beating a secret serviceman to death in the back yard of the White House and NOBODY notices!

There's dumb action movies, and then there's just insulting the intelligence of your audience with failing at grade school science. It's why I considered "Kill the Moon" and "In the Forest of the Night" from Series Eight of Doctor Who to be the worst episodes ever.

So I take it the JJ Abrams movies were your first exposure to Star Trek. The franchise isn't exactly known for its scientific accuracy. In fact, its been regularly breaking every known law of science since its inception. (Law of conservation of mass? What's that? Whatever, let's just make dinner out of thin air with these replicators)

[JazZeke]

I was watching a review and it made me realise the relationship of Kylo Ren is supposed to be a surprise - considering I was not actually looking for spoilers and still found that out months ago - I'm a little shocked that more people didn't know that going in.

I'm a bit disappointed that JJ is so ignorant of how light travels still.
I've been trying to figure out where the hell Spock was supposed to have been standing when he saw Vulcan in the sky large enough to appear a a moon sized object - it seems he arbitrarily made Vulcan have a a 3rd Co-Planet we'd not really heard about before. even though Spock made no mention of dumping Kirk on a Planet "Near" indeed in Vulcan space.

Not to mention what happens to the black hole like effect once it's eaten Vulcan does it suck in the rest of the 40 Eridani solar system in too it over time ?

I suppose the funny thing is that modern telescopes and clever physics can likely prove how many planetary bodies 40 Eridani has around it if not now then pretty soon.

So someone send JJ a High-schoolers text book on planetary science already!

And if Spock had been on a planet close enough to Vulcan for it to be THAT large in the sky (closer than Earth to Luna) then it too would have been, at best, flung out of the system into space by the sudden gravitational shift, at worst destroyed from the fallout.

And then in Into Darkness there was the Enterprise zipping back and forth between Earth and Q'onos (on the opposite side of known space) in two minutes, tops.

And, most annoyingly, Into Darkness has a half-hour standoff between the Enterprise and a Mystery Ship WITHIN ORBIT OF EARTH. You would think any of the other ships we saw in the fleet in orbit of Earth earlier in the movie would have come to investigate their flagship being attacked. That's like if someone was beating a secret serviceman to death in the back yard of the White House and NOBODY notices!

There's dumb action movies, and then there's just insulting the intelligence of your audience with failing at grade school science. It's why I considered "Kill the Moon" and "In the Forest of the Night" from Series Eight of Doctor Who to be the worst episodes ever.

So I take it the JJ Abrams movies were your first exposure to Star Trek. The franchise isn't exactly known for its scientific accuracy. In fact, its been regularly breaking every known law of science since its inception. (Law of conservation of mass? What's that? Whatever, let's just make dinner out of thin air with these replicators)

*just logs off from playing Star Trek Online*

Replicators draw power from the ship's matter/antimatter engines and convert it into mass using preprogrammed patterns. It's the same principal as the transporters, only one way.

I've been a lifelong fan of Trek and one of the biggest principals of the series was the sheer scope of the galaxy and even at a ship's maximum warp it would take days, if not weeks to get from one system to another.

[Burn]

Or maybe JJ realizes that, and doesn't care. Maybe he realizes that this is a movie, a fantasy one at that, and doesn't need to follow the "rules of physics" as we know them. Maybe also he realizes that 99.9% of the audience won't care, and that the .1% isn't worth catering to with hyper realistic, and bring, fantasy science.

Just saying.

This. Very much this. And I think it's more evident in Star Wars (you know, the stuff we're suppose to be talking about because there's another thread for Star Trek) given that's it's "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away". We're talking about a galaxy that for 30,000 years hasn't seen much advancement in technology aside from the development of hyperdrive technology (and even that seems to have stagnated from Episode 1 to Episode 7 ... unless you count the giant death rays)

[Ironhidensh]

I was watching a review and it made me realise the relationship of Kylo Ren is supposed to be a surprise - considering I was not actually looking for spoilers and still found that out months ago - I'm a little shocked that more people didn't know that going in.

I'm a bit disappointed that JJ is so ignorant of how light travels still.
I've been trying to figure out where the hell Spock was supposed to have been standing when he saw Vulcan in the sky large enough to appear a a moon sized object - it seems he arbitrarily made Vulcan have a a 3rd Co-Planet we'd not really heard about before. even though Spock made no mention of dumping Kirk on a Planet "Near" indeed in Vulcan space.

Not to mention what happens to the black hole like effect once it's eaten Vulcan does it suck in the rest of the 40 Eridani solar system in too it over time ?

I suppose the funny thing is that modern telescopes and clever physics can likely prove how many planetary bodies 40 Eridani has around it if not now then pretty soon.

So someone send JJ a High-schoolers text book on planetary science already!

And if Spock had been on a planet close enough to Vulcan for it to be THAT large in the sky (closer than Earth to Luna) then it too would have been, at best, flung out of the system into space by the sudden gravitational shift, at worst destroyed from the fallout.

And then in Into Darkness there was the Enterprise zipping back and forth between Earth and Q'onos (on the opposite side of known space) in two minutes, tops.

And, most annoyingly, Into Darkness has a half-hour standoff between the Enterprise and a Mystery Ship WITHIN ORBIT OF EARTH. You would think any of the other ships we saw in the fleet in orbit of Earth earlier in the movie would have come to investigate their flagship being attacked. That's like if someone was beating a secret serviceman to death in the back yard of the White House and NOBODY notices!

There's dumb action movies, and then there's just insulting the intelligence of your audience with failing at grade school science. It's why I considered "Kill the Moon" and "In the Forest of the Night" from Series Eight of Doctor Who to be the worst episodes ever.

So I take it the JJ Abrams movies were your first exposure to Star Trek. The franchise isn't exactly known for its scientific accuracy. In fact, its been regularly breaking every known law of science since its inception. (Law of conservation of mass? What's that? Whatever, let's just make dinner out of thin air with these replicators)

*just logs off from playing Star Trek Online*

Replicators draw power from the ship's matter/antimatter engines and convert it into mass using preprogrammed patterns. It's the same principal as the transporters, only one way.

I've been a lifelong fan of Trek and one of the biggest principals of the series was the sheer scope of the galaxy and even at a ship's maximum warp it would take days, if not weeks to get from one system to another.

*cough* borg transwarp drive *cough*

[RAR]

Someone who's first Exposure to Star Trek is JJ abrams isn't a Star Trek fan they are a fan of a specific movie that has at best a casual one night stand with Star Trek it's certainly in no long term relationship with it.

And the point I'm making is that there is things in movies that can be accepted as a Conceit if the conceit makes sense even ordinary movies play with our sense of time a real treat like how James Bond seems to teleport from location to location rather than get a plane.
And less time passes than often seems possible for him to have to have travelled.

The point I'm making is if you don't either have a pre-established explanation or it's something over lookable - then it can stand out a flaw or at least a distraction.

Like many people are distracted by the Dark Knight Rises and how Batman escapes the Bomb or how he got back to Gotham so quick - both have legit explanations but neither are offered and so both bug some people a lot - The Force Awakens has more than one of those sort of things.

And Replicators make at least as much sense as Energy shields do. You just take the idea that Matter and energy are interchangable and run with it. So you can't say they have no explanation at all.

But Spock seeing something from what may "Potentially" (at least) be another Star System is just pure B.S. - again if it's one of Vulcan's sister planets - then it's a stretch as it would need to be very very close to appear like that - but a whole other planet being seen from another planet in another star system is beyond silly - it's actually insulting - it's like watching someone shoot the same gun for 10 minutes and never reload it. it's suggesting you the viewer are a moron.

So the complaint isn't that there is no explanation it's that non is offered at all. as I said If the effect was seen in advance of the beam as a side effect of the corridor the beam is pursuiting in it's path of Destruction - so that it would be like looking at a natural telescope getting a preview of what is comming at you faster than the speed of light.

It might be pushing it Science wise but it's enough of an explanation for me to except it. a director's visual affectation though isn't as easy a sell for me as soon as I noticed it - I can't now un-notice it. but like Prime Spock seeing Vulcan implode It snot something you might even think about on the 1st viewing - then you think... hang on a minute - where is he standing again ?

Then there is the issues that you have to choose to over look like - why does the Enterprise take hits 'through' it's shields when they are still up.

The answer to that has "Consequences" for the physics of the whole show.

There is some curious points you can point out about Star Wars though like how well do the X-wings deflector Shields even work - when the ships blow up really pretty like when they get any hits at all - except when Artoo got skimmed - which should he have when Lukes shields were not depleted.

An explanation of why that was might have been nice. - such as the trench is to tight or he forgot to even his shields out to behind him when ordered too. The X-wings seem to take hits but the shots fired at them never seem to vanish, bend or splash on the shields - and notice this isn't the case either in the Prequels - every shot that hits either does damage or hits the hull with no effect. (like when people fire hand guns at space ships in Episode 2 & 5)
. Yet Jedi Starfighters supposedly have no shields and yet Jango singularly fails to hit Obiwan in any way at all. I think not using the shields properly actually harms the tension it could build up if used properly - I suppose it comes up a little on the cartoons - but they seem to mostly gloss over it there too.

Many people complain about the Naboo ship fleeing the planet via the Trade federation Blockade and rightly so - that whole scene makes at best only partial sense.

Perhaps the shields thing Bugged the makers of Independence Day as they sure made a point of bringing it up a lot as an essential aspect. - and Independence day isn't what most people think of as a smart movie.

I'm not saying physics can't be hand waved but you notice when it happens to much it can take people out of the Movie - another example of how that can be is Sam bouncing about on a chain attached to Starscreams face - and how he falls from impossible heights repeatedly with no injury - when dropping more than 11 feet can risk a broken ankle in the real world having someone fall 50 feet is a bit off putting to be frank.

That is I would point out one of many reasons why people don't like the later Die Hard Movies as much as the earlier ones - the invisible rubber ball hero vs the one who looks pretty darn bashed up by his adventures.