The Energon Pub

[SW's SilverHammer]

I wonder if this is coincidental

[Shadowman]

I always wondered why there are no Sith ghosts. Is there an official explanation?

There are. Yoda confronts the ghost of Darth Bane in Morriban/Korriban in the last episode of the Clone Wars series.

yet an other series that is likely no longer canon

Nope, the Clone Wars cartoon is actually still canon.

may i ask what you are basing that on?

The fact that it ties directly into Rebels which IS canon.

And the fact that it's been explicitly stated to still be part of canon.

[Ironhidensh]

Let's just end the argument about what is and is not canon right now.

THIS is canon:



That's taken direct from the novelization of Awakens. If your Star Wars background info comes from a source not on that list, it doesn't count.

[RAR]

I suppose the Furry Crowd would love some Bothan Spys so long as they are the kind that look like Killrathi and not the kind that look like camels.

[RAR]

All the other stuff is still Star Wars it's just not Disney's Version.

People are not suddenly going to stop giving a crap about 20 years of content because the core content and some pretty poorly written novels came along.

Jedi Knight or KOTOR will still be Star Wars Videogames even if Disney Disapproves.

If someone was asking what Star Wars Novels they should read a sensible person would at least consider pointing them to the Thrawn Novels before suggesting they read something that would put you to sleep or put you off reading any more like Aftermath would.

Besides you get into some pretty silly places - you end up accepting some utter stupidity that it in the Clone wars while throwing out some very good Old Republic back story stuff.

The other problem is then you have to micromange the flippin' Cloen wars cartoon trying to remember if a person, a race or a location was featured to establish if it's real or not.

Besides even the Clone Wars production will admit they did random stuff on a whim like change the established species of some Blue Skinned Humanoids as they felt like it at the time so in those cases the Cartoon contradicts previous material released for say ROTS.

I wouldn't be surprised if any Book or comic or Cartoon is going to be thrown on the scrap heap on a whim from this point onwards - and Clone Wars is especially likely to be repeatedly contradicted - heck it Contradicted itself at times.

The joke I always thought was that the short series Clone wars actually sits way better with the Movies than the Long form show does - it tells you some back story you would like to know and actually makes Anakin a more understandable and likeable character at the same time.

But then Clone Wars like SW:TFA likes to take liberties with the franchise on someone's personal whim so perhaps they deserve each other...

But if they keep the junk and ditch the meat even as mood music - then I think they may be headed for another full Star Wars reboot in a few years time.

But then I suspect the Prequels will eventually be remade or added too in some way anyway - to many people just were not happy with them and would be glad to see them 'got around' or massaged into making most sense as prequels.

But personally I'd have been plenty happy to loose The Clone Wars cartoon too, you'd not be missing much worth keeping by getting rid of it.

It's a bit like serving someone the crumbs really. Besides I would infer that something are not cannon event though they could be as they want to make a version of it for Film or TV at some point - the case in point being 'StarKiller' and the tale of Vader's apprentice. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Force Unleashed Movie sometime... which is likely one of the main reasons it escaped being cannon.

As for Clone Wars If they finish the darn thing sometime (which could happen) then I will consider it a worth while experiment - but in so many ways for good or bad that show just cause a lot of problems that frankly would have been best to not have when they were cleaning house on the continuity.

[ZeroWolf]

RAR I agree with you on some points but not on a lot of others, for starters I can't see a reboot happening for a very, very long time. And when they do, it's their choice, not much to do with us unless they ask the fans. Also what's wrong with people taking liberties with the franchise, especially taking it forward. Yes, new ideas can be hit and miss but we should still try.

[RAR]

I suppose I don't mean reboot so much as putting more weight on the Disney Material and less weight on everything else over time.. starting with the non-Movie stuff and eventually that may carry over to the Prequels.

I think making an Obi-Wan Movie with another actor than Ewan McGreggor would be the first strike of their death knell - if they cast him to play Obi-Wan I'd say they are safe for the time being.

I still think eventually as horrific as it may sound the Star Wars Movies will get remakes.

The Issue of Cannon is an amusing one though for example Disney made a Visual Novel of a New Hope "Cannon" this Novel contains some curious stuff like mention of Chewie's wife Malla by name and additional content from the Radio Drama for example. thus isn't that sort of backhandedly making the Radio Drama cannon too then ?

-------

My Next Thought for the day is this : "What Star Wars thing isn't in the Movie but many people choose to believe is a fact".

To use an analogy from another Franchise like how there is no mention of the Humans plugged into the Matrix being anything other than Power - but the implication and what some choose to interpret (and what was the original intention) is that the Matrix runs in part as software running on the minds of those plugged into it... the advantage of taking that view is it does make more sense why smith taking over everyone's minds could lead to a system crash as he'd be stopping the program from running correctly.

So what in Star Wars exists as an idea in peoples minds to better understand the franchise - but that isn't actually there ?

Anyone got any ideas ?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I always wondered why there are no Sith ghosts. Is there an official explanation?

There are. Yoda confronts the ghost of Darth Bane in Morriban/Korriban in the last episode of the Clone Wars series.

yet an other series that is likely no longer canon

Nope, the Clone Wars cartoon is actually still canon.

may i ask what you are basing that on?

The fact that it ties directly into Rebels which IS canon.

thank you

i havent watched either series, can you point out what the ties in question are

[Ironhidensh]

I suppose I don't mean reboot so much as putting more weight on the Disney Material and less weight on everything else over time.. starting with the non-Movie stuff and eventually that may carry over to the Prequels.

I think making an Obi-Wan Movie with another actor than Ewan McGreggor would be the first strike of their death knell - if they cast him to play Obi-Wan I'd say they are safe for the time being.

I still think eventually as horrific as it may sound the Star Wars Movies will get remakes.

The Issue of Cannon is an amusing one though for example Disney made a Visual Novel of a New Hope "Cannon" this Novel contains some curious stuff like mention of Chewie's wife Malla by name and additional content from the Radio Drama for example. thus isn't that sort of backhandedly making the Radio Drama cannon too then ?

-------

My Next Thought for the day is this : "What Star Wars thing isn't in the Movie but many people choose to believe is a fact".

To use an analogy from another Franchise like how there is no mention of the Humans plugged into the Matrix being anything other than Power - but the implication and what some choose to interpret (and what was the original intention) is that the Matrix runs in part as software running on the minds of those plugged into it... the advantage of taking that view is it does make more sense why smith taking over everyone's minds could lead to a system crash as he'd be stopping the program from running correctly.

So what in Star Wars exists as an idea in peoples minds to better understand the franchise - but that isn't actually there ?

Anyone got any ideas ?

I get what you are trying to do, I really do, bit it's kinda pointless.

We didn't create Star Wars, and we don't own it, so we have no say so on what is or isn't Canon. Lucasfilm, and Disney do. That is it. End of story.

[Burn]

thank you

i havent watched either series, can you point out what the ties in question are

While the main cast of Rebels is different from The Clone Wars, it still features characters that were a major part of TCW.

Question for all ... if Disney have booted the EU aside, does that mean Boba Fett is back in the Sarlacc?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

thank you

i havent watched either series, can you point out what the ties in question are

While the main cast of Rebels is different from The Clone Wars, it still features characters that were a major part of TCW.

Question for all ... if Disney have booted the EU aside, does that mean Boba Fett is back in the Sarlacc?

thanks again

[RAR]

We didn't create Star Wars, and we don't own it, so we have no say so on what is or isn't Canon. Lucasfilm, and Disney do. That is it. End of story.

I don't think they even know what they want to keep - I'm 99% sure that they will be contradicting Novels they state as cannon almost immediately - simply as the editing was so terrible in previous books that basic facts were never consistent between two authors - that is sure to creep in again even with some one who may or may not exist as a continuity guardian that happened so if there isn't someone doing that job now it will be a really mess even before Episode 8 comes out.

For example I would speculate that things they have said already will not match up with Rogue One, and as they make things like Obi-Wan, Han Solo, Boba Fett and other prequel Movie spin-offs the number of instances of contridction will skyrocket.

For example I seriously doubt that many of the Star Wars authors have ever seen every episode of Clone Wars so any time that period is covered contradiction is inevitable.

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Besides I don't see it that way anyway - I'm not going to stop consuming the older product just because Disney asked me to stop.

It is a personal characteristic of mine that I need a reason to buy something twice - and I feel on a multiplicity of levels I'm being sold the same thing twice.

I'd rather stick with what I know and like until what replaces it proves worth of being considered important... It's not like I'm the only one who considers the new stuff as Disney's Marketing Department's Star Wars Fanfiction.

To use an analogy it's like asking me to pretend the 1980's Offerings of Transformers are unimportant and only pay attention to IDW - that isn't something that is going to be happening in my home for sure.

Likewise when Hasbro have a go at ruining Visionaries, Micronauts, & M.A.S.K. - I suspect a lot of people will not be dismissing the original in preference to the new there - any more than The Live Action Movie Universe automatically superseeds G1.

Old skool Star Wars is essentially Like G1 in that regard I suppose.
Just as some may want to only consume Live Action Movie Transformers where as other will ignore it - the same is true with Star Wars - I don't want to loose what is lost - so I choose to give it at best a cursury glance - at least until it prooves worth giving more attention.

Essentially all Disney has does is made a Movie only Universe and put some sugar sprinkles of other things on top.

That is rather thin gruel to base a fandom on though... and as has been said before the modern books have been more bad than good so far - which isn't really a help.

This is without even getting into the broader idea of what Star Wars is... I suspect how old you are and when and how you were exposed to it can colour your perceptions a lot on that... it never used to be anywhere near as Jedi-centric as it is now.

[Madeus Prime]

Well I loved it. Probably somebody will have an issue with that, but heck, it was a fun, awesome, well acted, space adventure movie. I'm going to see it at least...two more times.

[Wigglez]

I watched the new Star Wars. I liked it. But the whole time, I had a lingering thought of when Lucas said that this wasn't part of his vision for Star Wars. Because without Lucas, we wouldn't have the greatness which is Star Wars. But then I also remembered that he said he didn't want to do it after a certain time because he would feel that he'd ruin the series. So with that in mind, I watched it again (with different people this time). I liked it even more that time. He did do a back peddle move and say it was good. It was similar to IV but whatever. It was still good. What I don't like is that they said that EU was no longer canon. Which makes me mad because I didn't read a bunch of comics for nothing. So with that being said, if I mention something and someone blasts me with "that's not canon", shut up. It happened

[Shadowman]

But then I also remembered that he said he didn't want to do it after a certain time because he would feel that he'd ruin the series.

That didn't stop him from making the prequel trilogy.

[ZeroWolf]

Problem with trying to still link in to the eu is that things will diverge until you are trying to bend over backwards to explain things.

Like how come chewbacca is alive when he died

[RAR]

It's inevitable that people will be a bit miffed if they go against the "Deep Back ground" to much.

Even if JJ wanted to throw the whole lot out - I think more than a few fans would expect them to be at least broadly respectful to the themes and idea of the franchise. Otherwise it makes what everyone has been doing the last 20 years a bit pointless.

Besides If the fan INSIST the do not want to old era to die they will get the point eventually.

A good example of this is the production of new Star Trek was rather dented by the invention of the JJ-verse and once people had time to think about it the conclusion many people reached was - that they either despise the new Movies or they were fine - "But not important" - the result being everyone pretty much ignores them, except as Action Movies.

I am not suggesting that People will come to hate the New Movies - I would however speculate, and hope that they will come to realise there is certain advantages of using the "Legends" Continuity for licenses too as it means they don't have to worry about Cannon with Movies as yet unmade.

I would for example not be to surprised to see some Star Wars sites reversing the Cannon change they made on their sites so the main body is given more focus than the new stuff.

I don't think these would be such an issue if what has been written so far in terms of new Material hadn't been so narrowly focused and on average more bad than good (in terms of the Book anyway).

I can't speak for the Star Wars Comics. I have noticed though they do seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it too though by setting things in a vague Universe that can fir in either interpretation of the Continuity - but not explicitly mentioning some things on purpose that give you clues what version of Star Wars you are reading.

I guess the easiest way to state it is this - if you wanted to make a Star wars Videogame with lots going on in it - then the best place to look is the EU not the contemporary offering - even if only because there is much more of it.

[ZeroWolf]

New fans won't notice a difference with the eu now gone apart from older fans complaining when at its most basic level, they have no right to complain as Disney hold the rights here. Also I expect work on the games to be tightly interwoven with the new Canon they are building.

[RAR]

New fans won't notice a difference with the eu now gone apart from older fans complaining when at its most basic level, they have no right to complain as Disney hold the rights here. Also I expect work on the games to be tightly interwoven with the new Canon they are building.

Star wars is pretty uqiquitous - unless you mean newly minted teenager - and even they will be likely in many cases have some exposure to it some way or another.

I still think the Clone Wars which is currently Cannon will be sidelined eventually - so perhaps when that happens a whole lot more people will be irked.

Besides is this really a "Nice" argument to make - it wasn't a very nice argument to make when Star Trek got crapped all over by Paramount either because of the mass market argument.

Is there a reason there can't be some sort of Balance to the force (so to speak) The marvel Movies might annoy some people - but they also have broad audience appeal too - Maybe they are not the perfect template to copy as there is certainly an awful lot wrong with marvel movies - but at least you get some impression the people making them at least "Get" what Tony Stark is about on some level.

I can't say I always thought the Dark Knight Movies got Batman at all - but at least they had visual compensation in most ways.

I don't really want Star wars Movies that look pretty and do nothing interesting, or make huge errors in the details due to lazyness of the crew being to scared to stand up and point an error out.

At least The Force Awakens looks a little bit like as Star Wars Movie in general terms, I hope that Rogue One has more Star Wars like stuff hidden in it somewhere as so far I think it looks more like Firefly than Star Wars.

I hate to say it but perhaps the people making these Movies need to go watch Babylon 5 or New Battlestar Galactica - and read up on that - so they can see what over a large amount of similar material what worked - what didn't and what mistakes they made.

It seems from what is said in behind the scenes stuff coming out now that the whole process of what they were doing was a little slapdash even by normal movie development standards. I'm kind of shocked that the Movie came out even semi-coherent at all all really.

I just hope they put some thought into how to make Ray's detractors more accepting of her - as they do have legit arguments about her at the moment and some of them can be minimised or at least lampshaded.

But if they just make her crazy powerful from now on and give her the universe on a platter again it will annoy a lot of people not to mention continue to make Kylo Ren look bad. That is at least one example of an Error in tone I feel that needs seriously addressing next time - maybe say she is a Anakin Clone or was trained by Luke or someone else up until her girlhood then mind wiped.

Heck maybe she used to live on a ship and forgot she could fly a ship since she was 7 or something like that.. "Something" other than she's so stupidly Powerful for no reason at least being a gender swapped Anakin clone or the offspring of two Jedi might explain some of it a bit better.

But boy does it need addressing as the sheer venom the girl is getting now is perhaps a little unfair.. she's not bad she's just written poorly.

[Burn]

You're seriously over thinking things Rar. It's a movie. People are getting way too emotional over it.

I enjoyed it, oh sure it wasn't great but eh, it's not like the faults are going to impact my life. Hell, I was a MASSIVE EU fan (20 years collecting the novels, I have bookshelves full of them!) and it was a kick to the gut when Disney announced they would no longer be considered canon.

But that's fine, because at the end of the day, we're getting new stories. And it's not like different continuities is a new concept to me, I grew up on Dr Who and am a Transformers fan FFS.

[Wigglez]

Problem with trying to still link in to the eu is that things will diverge until you are trying to bend over backwards to explain things.

Like how come chewbacca is alive when he died

The same way Darth Maul survived Episode I

[Ironhidensh]

You're seriously over thinking things Rar. It's a movie. People are getting way too emotional over it.

I enjoyed it, oh sure it wasn't great but eh, it's not like the faults are going to impact my life. Hell, I was a MASSIVE EU fan (20 years collecting the novels, I have bookshelves full of them!) and it was a kick to the gut when Disney announced they would no longer be considered canon.

But that's fine, because at the end of the day, we're getting new stories. And it's not like different continuities is a new concept to me, I grew up on Dr Who and am a Transformers fan FFS.

Exactly. I have every EU novel written, and most of the comics. I love the stiry, but now I look at it as one massive "what if" tale.

Sure, the new novels haven't all been great, but they haven't all been bad either. The EU had its fair share of turds as well. Thus is Disney's first real effort, there is so much more to come. For me, Rouge One might just be the real litmus test. I'm actually excited to see what is coming. We all knew how the prequels ended
And that killed a lot of enjoyment. This time it's a blank slate.

Anyway, I saw the movie again, and I still loved it. Still got carried away by it. It really does feel like A New Hope to me. Not in a copy cat way, but 8n a fresh start, a good point to jump aboard.

Above it all, we have know since way back in '91 that the EU was secondary to movie (and now tv) storylinr, and it's not the first time it's been over written.

[ZeroWolf]

@burn&ironhidesh I agree with all that you've put, even as you have worded your arguments better then what I've said.

@Rar I'm not really sure what you're getting at by saying more star wars stuff in Rogue One. That sounds like a subjective view as the in my opinion, the force awakens has plenty of star wars for me.

As for Rey, do we really need to know all about her considering her past is obviously an plot point that the other two movies want to deal with. So just wait...or is that something people don't like doing now?

[RAR]

Other than having X-Wings in it the art design does not so far scream Star Wars at me so far.

[Ironhidensh]

Other than having X-Wings in it the art design does not so far scream Star Wars at me so far.

Then I have to ask if you have ever even watched Star Wars before?