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ZeroWolf wrote:It's going to be a 9 parter spread over 42 years (wonder if Douglas Adams would of liked that) inconsistencies are a given. We're going to have film makers wanting to leave their mark on this franchise because it was what inspired them.
I Wish People would stop writing Disney off though for movies that haven't happened yet, we've had one film which was just to show that these films aren't going to be like the prequels, we all know what We wanted A sequel to look like but you cant please everyone.
I do have a small chuckle when before Episode 7 came out all these fans were saying "We don't want no politics" where as after it came out they are saying "Actually we do want some Politics - just not as much as the Prequels".
Even Episode IV gave you more set up than you might think - not a huge amount - but much more than Episode VI
I bet JJ thought he was offering a similar amount to Episode IV in terms of context - (i.e. not a huge amount) but people did stand or sit around and explain things more than once in "A New Hope" in Episode IV the time that could have been given to some sort of context was instead given to a Doctor Who Like running around in corridors scene.
All it needed really was about another 4 minutes and perhaps another moment or two of context on Jakku and perhaps leaving the snow speeder chase in - as I suspect that had some relationship stuff that was important chopped out there too.
I guess the best I can hope for is some of it has been rendered and will be in the Home format release as extra content bonus deleted scenes.
But It does seem a lot of people felt lost - not just newbies but existing fans too - who were scratching their head and left wondering how you get from a almost defeated Empire in Return of the Jedi to someone building a killer planet.
The other thing I notice is some say they think the 1st Order is to large and others that it's to small - and I'd say they are both right from their point of view as with so little context offered and some of it might even be said to be contradictory confusion was inevitable.
Boy it's so obvious that neither of them are really showing much in the way of Star Wars Credentials.
Besides anyone who is all dismissive about the Prequels annoys me - I do understand that some people don't have an interest in them - but I thinking it's a bit fair that if you like or dislike any given segment people at least realise they usually have a reason for doing so.
Even those people who don't like Star wars at all - I can understand why that is - a lot of that will be personal interests and the contexts of their own lives - some might simply think Sci Fi is frivolous.
But despite all that I can say this it's a little tragic that the best argument people can often make to defend the force awakens are pretty surface based ones.
Not that I object to people enjoying things in a shallow way - I just think that the views of someone who has already forgotten what they saw in December are going to be less of life impacting event than the poor s** who went to see The Force Awakens expecting a new movie only to find the most unoriginal remake in cinematic history is what they get served - or at least what they see as what they were served.
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My opinions remains the same. 1/3rd mild annoyance at some small elements poorly explained or shown 1/3rd positive appreciation for the characters and tone and overall mileu 1/3rd "wait and see".
The last point will flip to negative if Rey's superwoman act isn't adequately explained, as I consider her being like she is without explanation to be "Universe Breaking".
If they adequately explain her then I'll cut them some slack - and I expect some of the people more veracious with hate will give episode 9 the benefit of the doubt if they do that.
I don't expect they will ever explain Finn though - I don't think they can be bothered to give him his own arc - so I don't expect for one moment we will see him freeing child indoctrination camps or anything like that.
He'll likely just hang around being the comic relief.
I actually 'get' both sides of the argument but as is always the point with Star Wars it's about the 'point of view'.
Those who lack deep emotional investment or only watch the Movies are likely to be way more happy with the Force Awakens
Where as some of the ones who have a broader interest may be a little put off by some elements.
I know for example some of the things that annoy me in particular literally no one else ever mentions.
Or it really bothers some people how much the First Order are "Space Nazis" where as I have no feelings on that either way. other despise it and think it's intruding the real world into Star Wars by being so overt about it.
I don't think that but I respect them for seeing it that way and for feeling that way.
I wouldn't go around hassling someone for liking Episode 7 or not not liking it - it's what is important to you that effects that view and what is important to me isn't how it's shot or the music as much as it is "Universal Consistency" that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow with other people though.
I'm not sure I follow your thinking on this, I posted that video to show others opinions and how it's not all doom and gloom, you are right though it's all about points of view, but I like it more than being shallow. Talk like that is a little insulting to be honest. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad or shallow, it just means you didn't like it for whatever reason.
Motto:"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
RAR wrote:The last point will flip to negative if Rey's superwoman act isn't adequately explained, as I consider her being like she is without explanation to be "Universe Breaking".
Define "Superwoman act." Because when I watched the movie, she was clearly struggling against Kylo.
RAR wrote:I know for example some of the things that annoy me in particular literally no one else ever mentions.
Such as?
RAR wrote:Or it really bothers some people how much the First Order are "Space Nazis" where as I have no feelings on that either way. other despise it and think it's intruding the real world into Star Wars by being so overt about it.
Who is bothered by that?
RAR wrote:I don't think that but I respect them for seeing it that way and for feeling that way.
Really? Because a few pages ago you were actually very disrespectful about it.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
The force awakens is a flawed movie. I don't agree with all of the discussions made. However most of these points, like:
RAR wrote:I just think that the views of someone who has already forgotten what they saw in December are going to be less of life impacting event than the poor s** who went to see The Force Awakens expecting a new movie only to find the most unoriginal remake in cinematic history is what they get served - or at least what they see as what they were served.
Spit in the **** face of star wars. Alright, now I love star wars for all it's faults, but i'm going to drop some B-14 Truth bombs, Star Wars is one of the most unoriginal things put to theaters. Okay, Lucas "homages" shall we say multiple Pre-movie serials like flash gordan and commando cody , WWII movies, and Kurosawa films. These are thing Lucas grew up with, and made him the cheeseball that would write "are you an angel?". Alright we got that? Good. The people who made the force awakens are the contemporary equivalent, nerds that are able to make their dorky visions into movies. Except this time these nerds are working with the nerds from the from the previous generation that made the movies these nerds grew up with. So what am I saying? All star wars is unoriginal, but it's taking those unoriginal concepts and doing something new with them that makes star wars, star wars. The Force Awakens does that, accept now they have the tapestry of the cinematic star wars universe, and the former expanded universe to draw inspiration from, along with their other nerd hummels.
Also anyone who says the force awakens is worse than the Phantom Menace is a someone who really needs to sit down and rewatch the Phantom phucking Menace, which is undoubtedly one of the worse things ever ever put to celluloid this side of a snuff film.
Wasn't the empire based on nazism anyway? So I don't understand why people would only now complain about it. Also sw is dead on point, George lucas created star wars to homage his childhood and to have fun with it.
It seems an underlying problem here is people still aren't happy that the expanded universe was cut off from continuity. So I think that is affecting some people's judgement. Others seem hellbent on picking the tiniest flaws in the movie and using that as proof it's bad.
In short the force awakens is just as flawed as the original movies and certainly better then the prequels, which the force awakens was able to prove. I have much faith in ep 8 & 9 as Disney have proved to be capable hands.
RAR wrote:The last point will flip to negative if Rey's superwoman act isn't adequately explained, as I consider her being like she is without explanation to be "Universe Breaking".
Shadowman wrote:Define "Superwoman act." Because when I watched the movie, she was clearly struggling against Kylo.
This video may help flesh the points out :
RAR wrote:I know for example some of the things that annoy me in particular literally no one else ever mentions.
Shadowman wrote:Such as?
Well I'm sure I've brought it up before : But I am not huge fan of how Rebels and The Force Awakens have a tendency to use prototype designs by Ralph McQuarrie instead of almost the same "existing" races - It seems like the idea that some have that the new Movies wish to distance themselves from the prequels might even extend to the alien races seen in the prequels.
Oh and no I don't want Ewoks, Jawas and the like I'm talking about the "well travelled races" like Ithorians, Gan, Zabracks and such like. Rebels isn't a bad of offender at this exclusion then at least use the existing races as well as making up new ones or using prototype designs too.
The Force Awakens only seems to use aliens who are named individuals and if they are not named people then they are "Made up" races as far as I've noticed so far - obviously if someone finds more of the legit races hidden away in the extras on the home video releases or in the deep background I'll withdrawn some of that concern.
I also notice a curious (relative) lack of droids too - especially Astrodroids... Every other Star Wars Movie has more than one Astrodroid in it and yet Force Awakens seems to be either hiding them really well or they are simply not there. The other droids that are there one I think is a MacQuarrie Design in the bar and the Portal looking one outside and then there is that Blue protocol looking droid on the resistance base you see for a fraction of a second - I've seen the Movie more than once and I still can't find more than that in additional views (aside from BB-8/Threepio & R2 obviously)
RAR wrote:Or it really bothers some people how much the First Order are "Space Nazis" where as I have no feelings on that either way. other despise it and think it's intruding the real world into Star Wars by being so overt about it.
Shadowman wrote:Who is bothered by that?
It's Hux's Speech It comes up in a lot of You tube reviews and podcasts I've consumed - that people think they are being a bit to obvious about it with the Nuremberg rally symbolism, as if they don't need to define who the First order is other than "They are Bad" by virtue of the Nazi Symbolism and the village massacre.
Where as the Empire at least can be seen in a less overtly evil light - even if they may be nearly as bad.
RAR wrote:I don't think that but I respect them for seeing it that way and for feeling that way.
Shadowman wrote: Really? Because a few pages ago you were actually very disrespectful about it.
No I disrespect the idea that people who have been a fan for 5 minutes opinions matter as much as someone who has treated it as their religion for 3 decades. Also there is a difference between how I would relate to that point depending on if the topic was just the Movies (and a Movie critic was talking) and someone who is talking about the franchise as a whole.
In short I respect some disliking aspects for Film reasons - that is perfectly reasonable - so is some not doing so for Story & Writing Reasons.
The reason there is that a Film critic has an established track record of seeing lots of Movies so has something to compare it too. As may a writer or critic of writing.
So even if they don't know jack-s**t about Star Wars they may still have some valid points - it's the people who know nothing about anything who then either then proceed to gush or hate based on almost no info that marginally annoy me. Just as I get a bit annoyed by any one saying Force Awakens is good movie simply as it's progressive - while completely ignoring the negatives.
Example of someone I respect their view even if I might disagree with it is Angry Joe. he comes out on top of liking it but he doesn't ignore the flaws either.
People who make apologies for the Movie but ignore all the flaws as if they don't matter make me roll by eyes - if someone simply says I can see that this might be a problem for some people but I don't mind it for X-reason then that I can respect as it at least shows they are being a smart consumer.
Ultimately you can think what you like but if you gush or hate on The Force Awakens and address neither the positive or the negatives I will be more likely to roll my eyes and think "Lightweight" than I am if they come to the most extreme views but at least rationalise them.
I don't hate someone for saying they dislike the prequels (Like Red Letter Media for example) I do however have less respect for the ones who say : "I don't like the Prequels as they were sh*t" and that is the sole extent of their argument.
Just speaking for myself on this though - You can do what you like, think what you like - I'm only saying what my reaction is to those different things.
Last edited by RAR on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Stuartmaximus wrote:btw anyone watched the first episode of the new Lego Star Wars series yet? It's pretty funny
(i suspect that like all the other previous Lego Star Wars series, it'll just continue to appear on YouTube)
For a moment there I thought you were talking about the recently announced lego star wars series, but yeah these just look like webisodes unless they're included in the force awakens dvd.
@Rar there is a lot to go lbs in that last post but the biggie is the way you treat new fans opinions and you haven't accounted for the old fans who feel that same way would you hold them In disdain? Basically you don't seem to like it when no one cares about the flaws because...well actually why is that? Surely your opinion should be the final thing so what does it matter when people are able to enjoy something you can't for reasons you largely inflict on your self, like the alien thing, that's not on the filmmakers, that's on you.
Stuartmaximus wrote:btw anyone watched the first episode of the new Lego Star Wars series yet? It's pretty funny
(i suspect that like all the other previous Lego Star Wars series, it'll just continue to appear on YouTube)
For a moment there I thought you were talking about the recently announced lego star wars series, but yeah these just look like webisodes unless they're included in the force awakens dvd.
@Rar there is a lot to go lbs in that last post but the biggie is the way you treat new fans opinions and you haven't accounted for the old fans who feel that same way would you hold them In disdain? Basically you don't seem to like it when no one cares about the flaws because...well actually why is that? Surely your opinion should be the final thing so what does it matter when people are able to enjoy something you can't for reasons you largely inflict on your self, like the alien thing, that's not on the filmmakers, that's on you.
they're actually a bunch of NEW animated shorts before we get to the Freemaker Chronicles sometime later on in the year! this lot is called The Resistance Rises.
I would be interested to know if anyone agrees or disagrees with the points in the following video.
If you have any good counters to them "lets here them".
Oh and me posting these videos doesn't mean I agree with or indeed disagree with every word in them - I'm just looking for things to natter about and using these as a starting point or inspiration for points of conversation to suggest is all.
ZeroWolf wrote:@Rar you were once a 'newbie' yourself.
That's OK I can enjoy being ridiculed as I play catch up on Comics characters and stories that I'm pretty clueless about however I don't typically go around expressing heartfelt opinions until I have a dog in the race (so to speak).
But you are right to point out that as Franchises get older the fans get younger - but excuse me if I don't want to take notes and nod sagely when a bigoted 12 year old tells me : 'Yoda is a G** Muppet'.
Motto:"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Is it me or has this thread just turned into nothing more than posting a bunch of videos that either love or hate the movie, in which case, what's the **** point of doing that?
We should talk about Rebels, or the comics ... the comics are good. I especially like the idea of psychotic astromech and protocol droids.
The name of the other main droid in the Han Solo books is a bit unfortunate in the same way Erector or Slag or Sp**tic are as his name is Bollux I suspected Brian Daley was Trolling his edit seeing if he'd catch it and didn't if not for the fact the character is called Zollux in the original UK print run that came out 1st.
To an American ear to Bollux something up is nothing to rude where as the English Bollocks is much coarser which the word sounds like so to change it if it was originally fine make zip sense to me - I wonder how and why that happened.
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For a Change of pace how about a Video "Book review" :
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Incidentally the points I was looking to discuss and either confirm or debunk were originally from here :
But it's an interesting mix of points some you can answer with external knowledge and some are actually misunderstandings...
But as I often say that people misunderstand things isn't always their fault if the writing doesn't explain things adequately enough.
Anyway If you have a few minutes to kill check the video out or the above links and see what you think.
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As for Rebels - I'd say it likely deserves it's own thread as then there is no worries about spoilers for anyone who has yet to catch up on all the eps.
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