The Energon Pub

shockblast2 wrote:Please....just....don't.

Why is it grown men are the only ones arguing and cutting down others over stupid toys?

My wife tells me I'm very good at poking the bear.

shockblast2 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Va'al wrote:I'm going to join JelZe's campaign.

DELAYED, not cancelled.

Yeah, it's just the waves that canceled, not the figures within the waves.

Yes, and that is the problem. Why should a consumer reward a business with bad customer relations with more business? That is what I asked myself when reading this. Hasbro has become insanely flaky when it comes to promising product in the last few years. And recently it has gotten way out of hand. That is not the way to treat consumers and expect repeat business. But that is not the only problem.

Their product quality and prices points are totally unreasonable. Again, even my children have lost interest simply because these figures that target their age group are very dark and evil looking. And they have a very strange recent fascination with dragons, which is mind boggling. The only line they care about at this point are the Rescue Bots, and after the recent releases that has faded. I can't even get my children to play with them anymore, simply because there are other lines out there with much better product. A fine example is Playmates TMNT line. They have excellent figures with great quality and their price points are awesome for the parents who pay for them. Even the cartoon is much better than the Prime series ever was.

Bottom line is this, you cannot screw over your customers if you want repeat business. It seems Hasbro is putting all their eggs in one basket with this AOE line. I am the ONLY one left in my household that cares about this line. And now, I don't care any more. I really don't care if they ever release any of the "delayed" figures. Because by the time they do I will have moved on. And I am sure I am not the only one who thinks this way. As a matter of fact, some of you seem downright pissed off. I am not, because I can take it or leave it. And at this point I do not see any purpose in following the brand until next year, if I care by then. The only things I see myself buying going forward are the Kreon blind packs, and that is if I do not grow weary of trying to get them at TRU. And they are flaky anyhow when it comes to stocking them now, let alone when they are the only retailer carrying them.

Speaking of (infinitely more civilly) poking the bear...

I am in the Jelze & Sabrblade camp here. I honestly think it's a bit much to take the news personally. The movie lines make money, or at least retailers believe that product supported by a movie is more likely to make more money, and that's the way the business turns. Patience will pay dividends.

The changing interests of you and your kids is a more subjective thing, but I'm sorry to learn of your disillusionment.

megatronus wrote:

shockblast2 wrote:Please....just....don't.

Why is it grown men are the only ones arguing and cutting down others over stupid toys?

My wife tells me I've very good at poking the bear.

shockblast2 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Va'al wrote:I'm going to join JelZe's campaign.

DELAYED, not cancelled.

Yeah, it's just the waves that canceled, not the figures within the waves.

Yes, and that is the problem. Why should a consumer reward a business with bad customer relations with more business? That is what I asked myself when reading this. Hasbro has become insanely flaky when it comes to promising product in the last few years. And recently it has gotten way out of hand. That is not the way to treat consumers and expect repeat business. But that is not the only problem.

Their product quality and prices points are totally unreasonable. Again, even my children have lost interest simply because these figures that target their age group are very dark and evil looking. And they have a very strange recent fascination with dragons, which is mind boggling. The only line they care about at this point are the Rescue Bots, and after the recent releases that has faded. I can't even get my children to play with them anymore, simply because there are other lines out there with much better product. A fine example is Playmates TMNT line. They have excellent figures with great quality and their price points are awesome for the parents who pay for them. Even the cartoon is much better than the Prime series ever was.

Bottom line is this, you cannot screw over your customers if you want repeat business. It seems Hasbro is putting all their eggs in one basket with this AOE line. I am the ONLY one left in my household that cares about this line. And now, I don't care any more. I really don't care if they ever release any of the "delayed" figures. Because by the time they do I will have moved on. And I am sure I am not the only one who thinks this way. As a matter of fact, some of you seem downright pissed off. I am not, because I can take it or leave it. And at this point I do not see any purpose in following the brand until next year, if I care by then. The only things I see myself buying going forward are the Kreon blind packs, and that is if I do not grow weary of trying to get them at TRU. And they are flaky anyhow when it comes to stocking them now, let alone when they are the only retailer carrying them.

Speaking of (infinitely more civilly) poking the bear...

I am in the Jelze & Sabrblade camp here. I honestly think it's a bit much to take the news personally. The movie lines make money, or at least retailers believe that product supported by a movie is more likely to make more money, and that's the way the business turns. Patience will pay dividends.

The changing interests of you and your kids is a more subjective thing, but I'm sorry to learn of your disillusionment.

I do not have a changing interest in TF's. I still like some of the previous lines. I am actually collecting some of the older legends and robot heroes stuff right now. My OP is based on current and future TF purchases.
I cannot fathom paying 14.99 for less product than we got five years ago. My first TF purchase from childhood was Universe Ratchet back in 2009 and i remember paying 8.99 for it. Comparing that to current figures is a joke. Not to mention the $6 markup and for what? They are not paying any more for raw materials now then they did back then. I know. I work as an accountant for a plastics injection molder here in the US and have worked for the same industry for 7 years now. I won't get into the details as I have done so in previous posts in the past, but it is insane who much profit they are raking in at this point.

I obviously understand a business is in business to make money, but there is a fine line between having a livelihood and greed. And once Hasbro got a taste of that "movie money" they cannot go back. The shareholders and upper management expect a larger profit margin every year and this is the result. I just cannot contribute to something I think is wrong any longer. Over the holidays it wasn't so bad because we got discounts and deals. Hell, I paid 3.50 on amazon for a GEN Hoist just for the heck of it when i already owned it.

I just can't justify a 14.99 price point for something lacking in quality. The only positive thing I can actually say is that the chinese molders are creating some cool molds these days with all the intricate laser cutting. But that is all. The raw mater ial they are using is junk and will start to dissolve literally in a decade or two. Because they are blending it with something called densified material, which is basically all the garage and dirty diapers that some of you recycle in your bins. I am not kidding you. Educate yourself on densified plastic pellets if you think I am exaggerating.

Maybe my "disillusion" is from doing the job I do and knowing what I know? Who knows. I just know I don't care much for the current product they are teasing us with, and when they "delay" things it just makes me that much more ask myself "why do I bother"? As far as my children go I actually try to get them to play with TF's and they just won't half the time. My youngest son still likes his "Smash Bots" (Bot Shots), but that is about it. I have two toes full of Prime and Universe legends stuff and they barely touch it.

I was silent during the BW and Cybertron stuff, so maybe I will look into that as far as collecting goes. But going forward, it is highly doubtful I will pay for these figures IF they are released, and by then I'm sure Hasbro will have jacked the price point up to $16 or $17 by then.

Rabble rabble! Occupy Pawtucket! No longer will we stay silent; no longer will we withstand their abuse! We won't stand idly by while they rape our childhood and steal our money, leaving our children to starve. We demand Brian Goldner's head on a pike!

Oh, wait a second... we're talking about TOYS? Nevermind. Stay calm and carry on. >:oP

Yea these are delayed for now. Like the first edition prime figures were so we'll get them next year I'm sure. Don't get what all the fuss is about.

I wonder if the eventual releases of these toys will be integrated into the AOE toy waves so better cement them all as one unified Generations toyline.

It would be wise, too, since the movie toys all seem to be under a generic "TRASNSFORMERS" brand rather than anything specific (with only a tiny AOE logo to help point out their status as movie toys), and would help the non-movie Generations toys be better accepted by retailers.

After all, ever since the first movie line, every line to come out that didn't have a cartoon or a movie to accompany it always seemed to play second-fiddle at retail to the those that did:

• 2007 - the Movie 1 line dominated the shelves and overshadowed any remaining Classics toys that came out that year
• 2008 - The movie AllSpark Power and Premium Series sublines lingered for so long, delaying the Animated toys. And when those finally came out, they dominated over the Universe line.
• 2009 - Animated still dominated over Universe, until ROTF came out and dominated over both, killing off Universe and causing the last few Animated toys to either become exclusives or go unreleased.
• 2010 - ROTF N.E.S.T. Global Alliance lingered, as did the HFTD figures, but since there was no movie or cartoon (until Prime's pilot in November), the Power Core Combiners, early Reveal the Shield, and early Generations did get a fair shot this year.
• 2011 - DOTM dominated the shelves, temporarily killed off Generations, and permanently killed off PCC and RtS. And Prime First Edition barely even came out.
• 2012 DOTM still lingered but Prime Robots in Disguise eventually came out, and Generations returned with its Fall of Cybertron range, which was still overshadowed by DOTM and Prime RID. But thanks to Toys R Us, Prime First Edition got a second chance and Generations has its GDO toys.
• 2013 DOTM finally died out and Prime Robots in Disguise evolved into Prime Beast Hunters, which still dominated over Generations, which had its own transition from Fall of Cybertron to Thrilling 30.

So you see, either Hasbro, retailers, or both seem to put the motion picture-based lines on a higher pedestal of potential success than the "Classics-style" lines, which seem to always be secondary to the aforementioned primary ones. But if they were to take the current Generations line's toys, and the Age of Extinction toys that have been branded "Generations" toys as well, and combine them into one singly-branded "Transformers" line, that benefit both lines as it would permit the "real" Generations toys to be released without being delayed as much and without intruding upon the AOE toy releases.

mooncake623 wrote:Yea these are delayed for now. Like the first edition prime figures were so we'll get them next year I'm sure. Don't get what all the fuss is about.

Well, if you are ok with being lied to and financially manipulated, then I guess there is no reason to complain, right? My problem is more of a consumer based issue with fulfilling commitments and a longer running issue of price points and their lying to justify it. I personally made the decision to walk away from current and future releases months ago. This screw over is not surprising to me one bit. I questioned it during the first announcement sof these waves because time frames did not gel with AOE releases. I did have in my mind that i would close out my purchases by picking up Crosscut, Acree, and Chromia. And I still might next year. IF I care by then and am willing to pay for them.

However, I do see some resorting to name calling and personal attacks over this and that is uncalled for over something so silly.

Sabrblade wrote:I wonder if the eventual releases of these toys will be integrated into the AOE toy waves so better cement them all as one unified Generations toyline.

It would be wise, too, since the movie toys all seem to be under a generic "TRASNSFORMERS" brand rather than anything specific (with only a tiny AOE logo to help point out their status as movie toys), and would help the non-movie Generations toys be better accepted by retailers.

After all, ever since the first movie line, every line to come out that didn't have a cartoon or a movie to accompany it always seemed to play second-fiddle at retail to the those that did:

• 2007 - the Movie 1 line dominated the shelves and overshadowed any remaining Classics toys that came out that year
• 2008 - The movie AllSpark Power and Premium Series sublines lingered for so long, delaying the Animated toys. And when those finally came out, they dominated over the Universe line.
• 2009 - Animated still dominated over Universe, until ROTF came out and dominated over both, killing off Universe and causing the last few Animated toys to either become exclusives or go unreleased.
• 2010 - ROTF N.E.S.T. Global Alliance lingered, as did the HFTD figures, but since there was no movie or cartoon (until Prime's pilot in November), the Power Core Combiners, early Reveal the Shield, and early Generations did get a fair shot this year.
• 2011 - DOTM dominated the shelves, temporarily killed off Generations, and permanently killed off PCC. And Prime First Edition barely even came out.
• 2012 DOTM still lingered but Prime Robots in Disguise eventually came out, and Generations returned with its Fall of Cybertron range, which was still overshadowed by DOTM and Prime RID. But thanks to Toys R Us, Prime First Edition got a second chance and Generations has its GDO toys.
• 2013 DOTM finally died out and Prime Robots in Disguise evolved into Prime Beast Hunters, which still dominated over Generations, which had its own transition from Fall of Cybertron to Thrilling 30.

So you see, either Hasbro, retailers, or both seem to put the motion picture-based lines on a higher pedestal of potential success than the "Classics-style" lines, which seem to always be secondary to the aforementioned primary ones. But if they were to take the current Generations line's toys, and the Age of Extinction toys that have been branded "Generations" toys as well, and combine them into one singly-branded "Transformers" line, that benefit both lines as it would permit the "real" Generations toys to be released without being delayed as much and without intruding upon the AOE toy releases.

Yep. They love the movie money. And at their price points, as long as one of you buys a Crosshairs or Scorn, they will be more than happy to take a loss by clogging the shelves with 50K Bumblebees and Optimus's. When you are selling a figure for $15 that costs about a $1 to manufacture, you can do that and still make a profit. Not to mention writing it off as a business loss on their taxes.

And unless the movies stop, this will continue to be the case indefinitely. The choice you have to make is whether you are going to put up with it or not. The one thing that you can do is refuse to buy their product. And that gets them where it hurts the most. Which is what I have decided to do a few months back. Meanwhile, Playmates is getting my money currently. I just bought the TMNT ATV vehicle with a Leonardo figure for the same cost as one of these flimsy Generations figures. And that is ridiculous.

GuyIncognito wrote:Rabble rabble! Occupy Pawtucket! No longer will we stay silent; no longer will we withstand their abuse! We won't stand idly by while they rape our childhood and steal our money, leaving our children to starve. We demand Brian Goldner's head on a pike!

Oh, wait a second... we're talking about TOYS? Nevermind. Stay calm and carry on. >:oP

Are you this passive about it when they reveal a new figure? I think you care more than you are letting on. If not, you wouldn't be in this hobby because after all, they are just toys, right? I was amused by your post and it made me smile. However, you wouldn't have posted anything, nor would you be on this site in the first place if you didn't care. I understand some are acting overly emotional about this issue and it is kinda strange, but they are no different than you, so making fun of them is like making fun of yourself. After all, you are a grown man who likes toys, right? If not, neither they or you would be here.

I enjoy the hobby, but I also have a healthy perspective on how little these things mean in the context of my life. I have enough to deal with without getting all bent out of shape about a toy company's marketing decisions. It's just not worth getting upset about.

GuyIncognito wrote:I enjoy the hobby, but I also have a healthy perspective on how little these things mean in the context of my life. I have enough to deal with without getting all bent out of shape about a toy company's marketing decisions. It's just not worth getting upset about.

That is good and the right attitude to have. Even if you do not agree with something there is always a healthy vs unhealthy response to negativity. I try to keep my response with as little emotion as possible, because it is not worth getting angry or having anxiety about. Again, I can see why you said what you said, because some were starting to personally attack others over it. And that is never justified. Especially amongst us collectors, because we are all brothers with the same interests here.

Be well, my friend.

shockblast2 wrote:Why should a consumer reward a business with bad customer relations with more business?

try this exercise: walk up to a kid holding his fresh out of the box AOE grimlock and prime, bashing them together having a grande ol time. ask him if he's satisfied. BECAUSE HE'S THEIR TARGET AUDIENCE.

try to understand that without the movie toys, we might not have the classics/generations lines AT ALL. they wanna sell some bayformers and make a pile of money? more power to them. we are lucky that they want to reinvest some of those profits into engineering new generations toys, for what is mostly an adult collectors market.

honestly, reading garbage like this makes me not even want to be a part of forums. way to bite the hand that feeds you.

A delay on non movie figs during a movie year does not surprise me at all.

Sabr, there's still plenty of DOTM bots at my local TRU, so I'm not sure the line died out in 2013.

shockblast2 wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:Yea these are delayed for now. Like the first edition prime figures were so we'll get them next year I'm sure. Don't get what all the fuss is about.

Well, if you are ok with being lied to and financially manipulated, then I guess there is no reason to complain, right? My problem is more of a consumer based issue with fulfilling commitments and a longer running issue of price points and their lying to justify it.

A bit dramatic no? Lied to? Waves gets canceled/delayed all the time. It's part of the toy business, this is not just a Hasbro thing, Bandai does this, Takara does it too, not to mention every Third party Item always gets delayed or never made in the first place.

About being financially manipulated.... What? Did you put money down somewhere for these? And if so do you not have ~$100 in your bank account? I don't get it how is this effecting you financially? Just relax a bit, It'll work out.. eventually

craggy wrote:Sabr, there's still plenty of DOTM bots at my local TRU, so I'm not sure the line died out in 2013.

Maybe they haven't been sold cuz no one wants dead toys.

Sabrblade wrote:

craggy wrote:Sabr, there's still plenty of DOTM bots at my local TRU, so I'm not sure the line died out in 2013.

Maybe they haven't been sold cuz no one wants dead toys.

it's mostly Bees.


(I know, the internet is shocked!)

craggy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

craggy wrote:Sabr, there's still plenty of DOTM bots at my local TRU, so I'm not sure the line died out in 2013.

Maybe they haven't been sold cuz no one wants dead toys.

it's mostly Bees.


(I know, the internet is shocked!)

Well, Bee's dead to a lot a people, anyway.

Alternatively:

Cyber Bishop wrote:A delay on non movie figs during a movie year does not surprise me at all.

Exactly.

Act like you've been here before, folks. Won't be the last time a delay happens.

The very movie figures toys many are deriding here and elsewhere are what gives a company like Hasbro the budget to make mass-produced collector-centric items at all.

ScottyP wrote:figures toys

That reminds me, last time I went brick-and-mortar toy shopping somebody was arguing that they were buying "figures, not toys". Let me tell ya, real-world toy-nerd arguing is a LOT more awkward and unpleasant than online arguing...

Noideaforaname wrote:

ScottyP wrote:figures toys

That reminds me, last time I went brick-and-mortar toy shopping somebody was arguing that they were buying "figures, not toys". Let me tell ya, real-world toy-nerd arguing is a LOT more awkward and unpleasant than online arguing...

I sincerely hope everybody here has the maturity to acknowledge that we're buying plastic toys primarily aimed at kids.

Too bad these are delayed but as long as they DO turn up, I can be patient.

Sabrblade wrote:

craggy wrote:Sabr, there's still plenty of DOTM bots at my local TRU, so I'm not sure the line died out in 2013.

Maybe they haven't been sold cuz no one wants dead toys.

At what point do the dead DOTM toys become Terrorcons?

megatronus wrote:

shockblast2 wrote:Please....just....don't.

Why is it grown men are the only ones arguing and cutting down others over stupid toys?

My wife tells me I'm very good at poking the bear.

shockblast2 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Va'al wrote:I'm going to join JelZe's campaign.

DELAYED, not cancelled.

Yeah, it's just the waves that canceled, not the figures within the waves.

Yes, and that is the problem. Why should a consumer reward a business with bad customer relations with more business? That is what I asked myself when reading this. Hasbro has become insanely flaky when it comes to promising product in the last few years. And recently it has gotten way out of hand. That is not the way to treat consumers and expect repeat business. But that is not the only problem.

Their product quality and prices points are totally unreasonable. Again, even my children have lost interest simply because these figures that target their age group are very dark and evil looking. And they have a very strange recent fascination with dragons, which is mind boggling. The only line they care about at this point are the Rescue Bots, and after the recent releases that has faded. I can't even get my children to play with them anymore, simply because there are other lines out there with much better product. A fine example is Playmates TMNT line. They have excellent figures with great quality and their price points are awesome for the parents who pay for them. Even the cartoon is much better than the Prime series ever was.

Bottom line is this, you cannot screw over your customers if you want repeat business. It seems Hasbro is putting all their eggs in one basket with this AOE line. I am the ONLY one left in my household that cares about this line. And now, I don't care any more. I really don't care if they ever release any of the "delayed" figures. Because by the time they do I will have moved on. And I am sure I am not the only one who thinks this way. As a matter of fact, some of you seem downright pissed off. I am not, because I can take it or leave it. And at this point I do not see any purpose in following the brand until next year, if I care by then. The only things I see myself buying going forward are the Kreon blind packs, and that is if I do not grow weary of trying to get them at TRU. And they are flaky anyhow when it comes to stocking them now, let alone when they are the only retailer carrying them.

Speaking of (infinitely more civilly) poking the bear...

I am in the Jelze & Sabrblade camp here. I honestly think it's a bit much to take the news personally. The movie lines make money, or at least retailers believe that product supported by a movie is more likely to make more money, and that's the way the business turns. Patience will pay dividends.

The changing interests of you and your kids is a more subjective thing, but I'm sorry to learn of your disillusionment.

I want to be in that "Delayed, not Cancelled camp", but Crosscut was the only figure I had to have and he's the only figure that Hasbro hasn't made plans for...

shockblast2 wrote:

Yep. They love the movie money. And at their price points, as long as one of you buys a Crosshairs or Scorn, they will be more than happy to take a loss by clogging the shelves with 50K Bumblebees and Optimus's. When you are selling a figure for $15 that costs about a $1 to manufacture, you can do that and still make a profit. Not to mention writing it off as a business loss on their taxes.

And unless the movies stop, this will continue to be the case indefinitely. The choice you have to make is whether you are going to put up with it or not. The one thing that you can do is refuse to buy their product. And that gets them where it hurts the most. Which is what I have decided to do a few months back. Meanwhile, Playmates is getting my money currently. I just bought the TMNT ATV vehicle with a Leonardo figure for the same cost as one of these flimsy Generations figures. And that is ridiculous.

It's not that simple. $1 to make, sure, but logistics costs (shipping, warehousing, more shipping,) make it an 8-10 profit, not 14.

Sabrblade wrote:I wonder if the eventual releases of these toys will be integrated into the AOE toy waves so better cement them all as one unified Generations toyline.

It would be wise, too, since the movie toys all seem to be under a generic "TRASNSFORMERS" brand rather than anything specific (with only a tiny AOE logo to help point out their status as movie toys), and would help the non-movie Generations toys be better accepted by retailers.

D

I don't see it happening, bu it would largely fix the problem. Being that this is movie stuff, can Hasbro even do that, since a third party is involved in the mix (Paramount)? Seems to me like Paramount's involvement is why the movie modls don't show up in the Generations Repaints lines so would it work the other way? And also there's quite a bit of crap in the AOE lines as it is, is there even room for a half-dozen more figures?

That Bot wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

ScottyP wrote:figures toys

That reminds me, last time I went brick-and-mortar toy shopping somebody was arguing that they were buying "figures, not toys". Let me tell ya, real-world toy-nerd arguing is a LOT more awkward and unpleasant than online arguing...

I sincerely hope everybody here has the maturity to acknowledge that we're buying plastic toys primarily aimed at kids.

I've stopped aiming them at kids. The kids move out of the way and then you've just got a broken toy that you've thrown across the room for nothing.

That made me seriously guffaw, lose my drink and swear at the same time (for the drink spilling on me, not the guffawing).