The Energon Pub

[SpikeyTigertron]

At some point, I feel I really need to go back through a lot of my stored collection. I get that everyone has their preferences. But I really don't understand the Ride or Die hard-on for CHUG. Maybe, it's just because I've viewed each series as more-or-less self contained.... with only recently Hasbro really trying to reign in some brand uniformity and scale (though I assume Siege is still out of Scale with Titans Return and (most) Power of the Primes).

I would think from a playability/engineering standpoint people would be head-over-heals with a Magnus in armor... Since we've never really had one since G1. Fansproject came to the rescue with the Universe Target Exclusive many moons ago... but that's the last one that comes to mind.

I personally haven't any issues with the "weathering/battle damage" sure it could always be done *better*, but I think when you look at it all collectively it'd work.

I've still yet to see if a deluxe car will fit *inside* the trailer compartment, has anyone tried yet?

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Don't take my opinion to seriously, gentlemen, I'm basing my feelings more on visual than anything. With the abundance of white color on Magnus the "battle damage" looks very cheap. Plus, I found the CW version of Magnus to be just about perfect, and overall, I don't like the styling of Siege. Its all personal opinion to me.

Ever worked an outdoor job? Or spent a chunk of time outside getting dirty at all? The parts of you covered by your clothes get substantially less dirty than your clothes and the uncovered parts.
Hell, just pick up something off a dusty shelf. The shelf beneath is most likely clean.

..........So did you have a point here? I don't mean to be rude, but nobody really wants to hear about your household chores.

I think he was equating Magnus's battle damage to your clothes getting dirty when you're doing yard work. Or construction. Or being a lumberjack. Or a gravedigger. Or...

Hell, you get the point.

Right?

I mean, I got it when he said it.

I got that he was trying to justify a horrible paint/design decision by saying Magnus gets dirty when he works.

His sarcastic eyeroll emoji annoyed me.

I'm fine with battle damage or weathering effects on a toy, I just think it should be done well. Magnus was not.


Look Zelda, I get that you love this line, that's cool, you get to do that. I don't, and I also get to do that, so let it go.

I'm trying to get it through your skull just WHY IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE BATTLE DAMAGE IS ONLY ON THE ARMOR AND THE CAB ROBOT'S THIGHS

[SpikeyTigertron]

Don't take my opinion to seriously, gentlemen, I'm basing my feelings more on visual than anything. With the abundance of white color on Magnus the "battle damage" looks very cheap. Plus, I found the CW version of Magnus to be just about perfect, and overall, I don't like the styling of Siege. Its all personal opinion to me.

Ever worked an outdoor job? Or spent a chunk of time outside getting dirty at all? The parts of you covered by your clothes get substantially less dirty than your clothes and the uncovered parts.
Hell, just pick up something off a dusty shelf. The shelf beneath is most likely clean.

..........So did you have a point here? I don't mean to be rude, but nobody really wants to hear about your household chores.

I think he was equating Magnus's battle damage to your clothes getting dirty when you're doing yard work. Or construction. Or being a lumberjack. Or a gravedigger. Or...

Hell, you get the point.

Right?

I mean, I got it when he said it.

I got that he was trying to justify a horrible paint/design decision by saying Magnus gets dirty when he works.

His sarcastic eyeroll emoji annoyed me.

I'm fine with battle damage or weathering effects on a toy, I just think it should be done well. Magnus was not.


Look Zelda, I get that you love this line, that's cool, you get to do that. I don't, and I also get to do that, so let it go.

I'm trying to get it through your skull just WHY IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE BATTLE DAMAGE IS ONLY ON THE ARMOR AND THE CAB ROBOT'S THIGHS

If only he came with RED CHAPS!

[Ironhidensh]

Don't take my opinion to seriously, gentlemen, I'm basing my feelings more on visual than anything. With the abundance of white color on Magnus the "battle damage" looks very cheap. Plus, I found the CW version of Magnus to be just about perfect, and overall, I don't like the styling of Siege. Its all personal opinion to me.

Ever worked an outdoor job? Or spent a chunk of time outside getting dirty at all? The parts of you covered by your clothes get substantially less dirty than your clothes and the uncovered parts.
Hell, just pick up something off a dusty shelf. The shelf beneath is most likely clean.

..........So did you have a point here? I don't mean to be rude, but nobody really wants to hear about your household chores.

I think he was equating Magnus's battle damage to your clothes getting dirty when you're doing yard work. Or construction. Or being a lumberjack. Or a gravedigger. Or...

Hell, you get the point.

Right?

I mean, I got it when he said it.

I got that he was trying to justify a horrible paint/design decision by saying Magnus gets dirty when he works.

His sarcastic eyeroll emoji annoyed me.

I'm fine with battle damage or weathering effects on a toy, I just think it should be done well. Magnus was not.


Look Zelda, I get that you love this line, that's cool, you get to do that. I don't, and I also get to do that, so let it go.

I'm trying to get it through your skull just WHY IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE BATTLE DAMAGE IS ONLY ON THE ARMOR AND THE CAB ROBOT'S THIGHS

One: Caps lock, bold and italic font are not your friends. It makes you look like an upset child who needs his mommy.

Two: I understand your point, its irrelevant. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the battle damage. I'm saying Hasbro's application of it sucks. It doesn't look good. Its amaturish. Take you pick. I don't like it because it looks terrible, not becuase its there.

Now, you can keep smashing your fingers on your keyboard all you want, good luck. I'm done with this convo and you.

[Sabrblade]

Here, guys, lemme see if I can understand this right.

Zelda, he's not complaining about where the battle damage was placed on the figure. That part makes sense. What he doesn't like is the application/appearance of the battle damage. The "What" and "How", not the "Where".

In Ironhidensh's opinion, the texture of the battle damage doesn't look right. To him, it probably looks less like scars of combat warfare and more like Ultra Magnus merely had an accident with a paint can and got some paint splotches spilled onto himself.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

My apologies.... I guess I was thinking of someone else who was whining about the battle damage only being on the cab robot's thighs. I know there was somebody doing that in this thread.

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

[SpikeyTigertron]

It does kill me that they can do a masterful job on TLK Leader Megatron, and Studio Grimlock… but then drop the ball with Siege...

[Emerje]

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

[Dr. Caelus]

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

Yeah, but if you roll it through several trees while being shot at by a helicopter and a tank your cars probably going to be quite a lot more messed up.

[Emerje]

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

Yeah, but if you roll it through several trees while being shot at by a helicopter and a tank your cars probably going to be quite a lot more messed up.

That's a problem that painted on battle damage on bare plastic just isn't going to live up to. Just how much are people willing to pay for a perfection screen accurate Leader?

Emerje

[SpikeyTigertron]

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

Yeah, but if you roll it through several trees while being shot at by a helicopter and a tank your cars probably going to be quite a lot more messed up.

That's a problem that painted on battle damage on bare plastic just isn't going to live up to. Just how much are people willing to pay for a perfection screen accurate Leader?

Emerje

Can always take a fine grit sandpaper and dry brush

[no-one]

Just how much are people willing to pay for a perfection...

This. With maybe the exception of the Masterpiece line, compromises have to be made to fit a price point. The Siege "battle damage" is hit or miss, some figures look better than others. Personally I feel they should have spent that budget elsewhere, but I can live with it.

[Dr. Caelus]

Everything seems great compared to the Battle-Damaged He-Man and Skeletor I had when I was little. (Conversely, nothing seems quite as good as the 'Mutating' Foot Soldier I had.)

[Wolfman Jake]

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

Yeah, but if you roll it through several trees while being shot at by a helicopter and a tank your cars probably going to be quite a lot more messed up.

That's a problem that painted on battle damage on bare plastic just isn't going to live up to. Just how much are people willing to pay for a perfection screen accurate Leader?

Emerje

I think the issue some people were taking was with the glossiness of the black battle damage paint apps, not the sheen on the "unmarred" parts of the figure. Scorch damage like that would be better represented by matte black paint applications, which would more realistically represent charring on the surface of the metal. As it is, it looks more like Optimus just got splashed with some glossy black car paint and less like he was in a "heated" battle with some Decepticons.

[Hellscream9999]

I think the issue some people were taking was with the glossiness of the black battle damage paint apps, not the sheen on the "unmarred" parts of the figure. Scorch damage like that would be better represented by matte black paint applications, which would more realistically represent charring on the surface of the metal. As it is, it looks more like Optimus just got splashed with some glossy black car paint and less like he was in a "heated" battle with some Decepticons.

Having all of wave 1 in hand, I don't have a problem with it; I think people are massively blowing it out of proportion - unless they just don't like it to begin with, in which case nothing I say will change that - but I like the change of pace it brings, we've had glossy, clean figures for years, so this breaks it up nicely while adding a bit of distinctiveness to the line *shrug*

[Wolfman Jake]

I think the issue some people were taking was with the glossiness of the black battle damage paint apps, not the sheen on the "unmarred" parts of the figure. Scorch damage like that would be better represented by matte black paint applications, which would more realistically represent charring on the surface of the metal. As it is, it looks more like Optimus just got splashed with some glossy black car paint and less like he was in a "heated" battle with some Decepticons.

Having all of wave 1 in hand, I don't have a problem with it; I think people are massively blowing it out of proportion - unless they just don't like it to begin with, in which case nothing I say will change that - but I like the change of pace it brings, we've had glossy, clean figures for years, so this breaks it up nicely while adding a bit of distinctiveness to the line *shrug*

I was actually referring specifically to the RotF Optimus Prime pictured above, not battle damaged figures in general, or even the Siege ones in particular.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Uh, Hellscream? Wolfman was talking about the FTD Battle Hooks Optimus Prime.

What exactly makes it look cheap to you? Like, I can get people seeing this as bungled battle damage because the good paint apps are outweighed by the overall shininess and that glossy black blob on the face:


But everything I've seen of Magnus' looks to be decently balanced.

This looks infinitely better than any battle damage in Siege (which I don't particularly mind). I don't get the problem with the shininess of the rest of the figure, if you wax your car and then drive head first into a tree it doesn't suddenly remove the wax from the rest of the car.

Emerje

Yeah, but if you roll it through several trees while being shot at by a helicopter and a tank your cars probably going to be quite a lot more messed up.

That's a problem that painted on battle damage on bare plastic just isn't going to live up to. Just how much are people willing to pay for a perfection screen accurate Leader?

Emerje

I think the issue some people were taking was with the glossiness of the black battle damage paint apps, not the sheen on the "unmarred" parts of the figure. Scorch damage like that would be better represented by matte black paint applications, which would more realistically represent charring on the surface of the metal. As it is, it looks more like Optimus just got splashed with some glossy black car paint and less like he was in a "heated" battle with some Decepticons.

This. It's especially the glossy black blob on the face that does it. The glossy bare plastic sheen of the "unmarred" parts of the figure wouldn't clash too bad with the battle damage on the arms and legs if it was just that, but with the black blob on the face it just ends up looking bad. It looks like a paint can spilled on his head.

[Ironhidensh]

My apologies....

Fair enough, mine apologies as well.

What exactly makes it look cheap to you?

Its the application, and maybe the color as well. Specifically on Magnus. Now, to be honest, I've only had his package in hand, not the toy itself. I didn't buy him, but I did pick up his package to compare the height to the PotP Optimus (magnus is noticeably shorter, by the way).

To me, the battle damage paint looks like a kid took a silver crayon and put it on. It feels randomly placed, since its on the toes and thighs, but not the rest of the legs. To me, it feels very cheap, almost amateurish. Yeah, I get what they were trying to do with it, but they failed, on this figure specifically. Combine this with the lack of size (in direct comparison to other recent leaders), and this is just a bad figure. CW Magnus kicks his ass 19 ways from Sunday.

Again, my opinion after holding him in hand. Well, in box, in hand.


Shockwave, on the other hand, I loved the look of in hand, minus all the stupid armor. The minute I can find him for $30 or less, Its an instant buy.

[X3ROhour]

Well then you might not have been able to buy it yet, unless the figures were in the system already. Sometimes Walmart gets stock that's not ready to be on the shelf for a few days. Having said that, I also checked the Walmart I work at after above mentioned heartbreaking football game (I was rooting for the Chargers and Bears today), and finally found a the small guys that turn into weapons, but that's it. Gonna have to check tomorrow morning when I go to work. And Ironhidensh, Magnus is one of the figures that's and in hand decision for me, so hopefully he's not as bad as you say, though usually you and I are in agreement about figures.

the wife works graveyard at Walmart.
said she didnt know i wanted Megatron.
DIDNT KNOW!?
what have i been babbling about for months on end?

oops
she says.

oops.



PS
I LOVE MY WIFE SO VERY MUCH.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I actually really like battle damage, and enjoy it on these figures. These are the war figures so to speak for me, I'm not worried about cleanliness. It rocks

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Its the application, and maybe the color as well. Specifically on Magnus. Now, to be honest, I've only had his package in hand, not the toy itself. I didn't buy him, but I did pick up his package to compare the height to the PotP Optimus (magnus is noticeably shorter, by the way).

To me, the battle damage paint looks like a kid took a silver crayon and put it on. It feels randomly placed, since its on the toes and thighs, but not the rest of the legs. To me, it feels very cheap, almost amateurish. Yeah, I get what they were trying to do with it, but they failed, on this figure specifically. Combine this with the lack of size (in direct comparison to other recent leaders), and this is just a bad figure. CW Magnus kicks his ass 19 ways from Sunday.

Again, my opinion after holding him in hand. Well, in box, in hand.

Well, the lack of size in armor mode is the price paid for a Voyager-size cab that's a fully-fledged robot on its own; that means that the plastic mass (the overriding thing that sets size classes apart) is much more concentrated in the cab, leaving less available for the trailer armor. CW Magnus is bigger, yes, but the tradeoff is that his mass is spread much more thin - he's very hollow and his cab doesn't transform into anything but his head and chest.

As for the battle damage paint... the silver works for me because I see it as representing spots where their paint was scuffed off, exposing the metal below.
It does look a bit odd that there isn't any on the armor's shins, tho. I wonder if possibly they had issues with doing it over the multicolor paint apps that are already there.

[Wolfman Jake]

At long last, I've finally got my paws on the Siege Voyagers Optimus Prime and Megatron! Oh, and Siege Leader Shockwave as well!

I found them all (along with Studio Series Ironhide) on my way home from work earlier this evening at the same somewhat out of the way Target that has been so good to me with Transformers finds over the past couple of months. I really need to check there more often. Siege Leader Ultra Magnus was also there, but I passed on him for now. I'm still not convinced it's a better figure for my collection than the Combiner Wars mold, and Optimus Prime, Megatron, and ESPECIALLY Shockwave were my biggest priority (after finally finding Studio Series Ironhide in the wild).

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I'm personally really eager to get my hands on SIEGE Magnus. I like having the separate cab robot, I like the weapons, I like the look of the armored mode. It's a bit small but it's still good-looking, and the design leaves the door open for a larger set of trailer armor (either 3P or homemade).

[Wolfman Jake]

I'm personally really eager to get my hands on SIEGE Magnus. I like having the separate cab robot, I like the weapons, I like the look of the armored mode. It's a bit small but it's still good-looking, and the design leaves the door open for a larger set of trailer armor (either 3P or homemade).

I agree, there is plenty to love about Siege Ultra Magnus, but there are some drawbacks I see too.

Pros:
Colors are all spot on, especially the blue!
Transformers akin to the G1 toy!

Cons:
Too much greebling in the sculpt.
Alt mode isn't G1 faithful.

Other factors:
He's smaller than Combiner Wars Ultra Magnus, but that might actually be more cartoon accurate.
He has battle damage paint applications, but your mileage will vary on whether that is a plus, a minus, or a zero sum.

What I like about my Autobot Heroes Ultra Magnus (from the 5-pack Target exclusive repaint of the Combiner Wars mold for the 30th anniversary of "The Transfomers: The Movie") is that his alt mode very much looks like his G1 self with some "Classics" updating/stylization, and that he transforms all in one, just like the cartoon (which totally cheated by just morphing him between modes), with no partsforming (except for the optional Minimus Ambus figure). Screen accuracy is usually the way I lean in my Transformers collecting. The blue used on the 5-pack exclusive version is also darker and more accurate to the cartoon than the toy accurate light blue used for the Combiner Wars mass release, though, I have to admit, the Siege version is even closer to the perfect cartoon shade of blue for Ultra Magnus. I didn't have time tonight to really study Siege Ultra Magnus up close, but if he's there tomorrow night, I'll give him a thorough looking-over.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I don't see the greebling as a con. I mean, the original is up to its armpits in greebling (which I actually painted on mine, albeit sloppily and I need to re-do.)
The altmode isn't G1 faithful, yeah, but much like the reduced size it's the tradeoff for his having a Voyager cab robot while being a Leader-class toy; there's just not enough plastic left for a G1-faithful trailer (unless it was heavily squashed). It's why I was hoping for a Supreme-class Magnus.
I find the tradeoffs acceptable. Having the cab robot is a big-time plus for me, and as I said the design leaves the door open for bigger (and more G1) trailer armor.

As for the battle damage, it's a thing that's there. I don't mind it. It's not like, say, the randomized battle damage on Revenge of the Sith vehicles, which sometimes got waaay overdone.