The Energon Pub

[Sabrblade]

[Tyrannacon]

Very good post Sabrblade. I feel you've hit the nail on the head accurately with the films. They're "good fun", but if you try the immersion aspect with just the films (without the comics) it's a real pain in the rear to say the least. I can't tell you how many hours I spent on the TFWiki to just figure out all of Megatron's backstory. That's also someone else that is literally screwed over by his own narrative. He sits most of the first movie frozen, part of the second movie playing second fiddle to The Fallen, and dies in the third movie after playing second fiddle to Sentinel Prime. He does redeem himself in the fourth film, but he's a non-speaking head and you only find out his plan after all the action. Really I'm upset with the portrayal of Megatron in these films, but I digress I am also thankful for what we got if even I don't agree with it. This is a common problem with most franchises I've seen, it's not just Transformers.

[Sabrblade]

Very good post Sabrblade.

Just the last one, or all four?

[Tyrannacon]

Very good post Sabrblade.

Just the last one, or all four?

All four, sorry. Should've been more specific.

[SlyTF1]

WHAAAAAAAAT?!!!!!!!

That came out of nowhere! There was not ONE scene in this entire movie that even suggested that he could do that! Nowhere in this movie was he even remotely hinted at having this ability, and his only just now doing it came completely out of left field.

Nope. There were two times before that, during the "Dinobot charge," scene, where he jumped off of Grimlock and used them.

[SKYWARPED_128]

You know you've written a good review when people are actually willing to read what could be 6 pages of tightly-packed words when printed on paper.

Ehren Kruger's interview really sheds a lot of light on why the TF movies are they way they are. As you so aptly put it, they're more like really fun rides and spectacles than films.

But as far as TF movies go, AoE is still my favorite movie, sharing top spot with the first one. The lack of toilet humor, military pandering and the focus on Autobots as proper characters really helps.

I just wish they didn't keep trying to stuff 2 villains into one movie.

[Sabrblade]

WHAAAAAAAAT?!!!!!!!

That came out of nowhere! There was not ONE scene in this entire movie that even suggested that he could do that! Nowhere in this movie was he even remotely hinted at having this ability, and his only just now doing it came completely out of left field.

Nope. There were two times before that, during the "Dinobot charge," scene, where he jumped off of Grimlock and used them.

Re-watching that scene, I see it now, but his use of them is barely visible (since the exhaust is the same color as the sky) and not called to our attention since the carnage itself and the big robo T-Rex causing it is what's most prominently displayed onscreen at the time.

And each time was only a split-second in length, requiring one to have to pay extremely close attention to the tiniest of background details, which the average moviegoer is NOT likely to do.

And even if he does use them at this point, the ability still comes out of nowhere with no explanation in the final cut of the film, what with the full-body Silver Knight upgrade having been aborted.

[SlyTF1]

WHAAAAAAAAT?!!!!!!!

That came out of nowhere! There was not ONE scene in this entire movie that even suggested that he could do that! Nowhere in this movie was he even remotely hinted at having this ability, and his only just now doing it came completely out of left field.

Nope. There were two times before that, during the "Dinobot charge," scene, where he jumped off of Grimlock and used them.

Re-watching that scene, I see it now, but his use of them is barely visible (since the exhaust is the same color as the sky) and not called to our attention since the carnage itself and the big robo T-Rex causing it is what's most prominently displayed onscreen at the time.

And even if he does use them at this point, the ability still comes out of nowhere with no explanation in the final cut of the film, what with the full-body Silver Knight upgrade having been aborted.

I thought he assumed the knight mode when he grabbed the Sword of Judgement. That's why his arms changed. It wasn't silver, but he certainly looked more like a knight.

[Sabrblade]

I thought he assumed the knight mode when he grabbed the Sword of Judgement. That's why his arms changed. It wasn't silver, but he certainly looked more like a knight.

Reread my review when I discuss the sword-pulling scene. Each time.

[Noideaforaname]

I remember telling my brother (who's seen the very end of DotM) that Megatron survived. He was glad he had no interest in AoE.


There absolutely needed to be a more obvious sign that Optimus gained jet boots at some point, especially considering he needed a big ol' jet(fire) pack in the last two films. You could taste the collective bewilderment in the theater audience when Prime zoomed away from the grenade. If grabbing the sword gave him boosts somehow, then that scene needed to show them off, whether it be a dynamic rocket leap or just a simple shot of his transforming legs firing off a burst of flame. Then when Optimus has to leap up to smack Grimlock in the face, have him break out his new jet-boots to do so.

[Smokescreen]

Psst.. Sabr.. good review, but do you think you can put this all in a spoiler alert bracket? That is for those who haven't seen the movie yet?

The movie's been out for over three months and is now available in stores. Spoilers have long since been fair game.

And with Megatrons head surviving, think about Igor as a previous example.

Igor's head was his body. Megatron's head wasn't.

Fair game or not, it was merely a suggestion... dot dot dot... *Edit* and the "Prototypes", I looked at more as being similar to the AI vehicles in Terminator 3 after the.. T-3000? activated their, so-to-speak, consciousness (or awareness)

[Cthulhunicron]

First of all, I get it. I get that Bay likes putting emphasis on the spectacle aspects of his movies. I get that he prioritizes that above all else. But really, that’s the issue. To put it another way, he focus primarily on making the most delicious icing ever tasted in existence, rather than putting enough focus on the cake itself. But the cake is main part of the dessert, with the icing being the extra flavor. Meaning that Bay gives more attention to the extra flavor than he does the main body of his work, and tries to hide a subpar cake behind layers of additional flavoring. To use a different metaphor, he tries to cure the symptoms rather than cure the illness.

Thank you! Sabrblade, you've perfectly summed up precisely why I can't stand these movies. I'm a narrative guy...I like a good story. If I can't have a good story, I at least like the story to make basic sense. It's clear that logic takes a backseat during the writing process and Bay and Kruger focus more on what spectacles they want to create. Nothing wrong with having spectacle in your movie; like you said, it's the icing on the cake. But you can't just have icing, you need the cake...a good story and likeable, relatable characters to tie everything together.

And yeah....these Autobots are just awful in this movie. Spiteful, sadistic, violent....they basically act the way you'd expect Decepticons to act.

[Rodimus Prime]

That review was very concise and thorough. Great job, Sabrblade. I got exactly how you view the film.

I agree with a lot of it, and I also disagree with some things. However, as you said, it's an opinion. We all have 1.

[ctrlFrequency]

I finally broke down and saw the movie last night (after being warned by hubby's co workers not to see it in the theater, which I regret, explosions are far more thrilling with theater surround sound, which I've been wanting to get installed since we bought our house in June).

I thought it was a better movie as compared to the first three, though there's somewhat of a tie between 1 and this one, but I really hated the humans in the first three, but actually kind of liked the humans in 4 so... that tips the scales for me on what's better (all right, all right, I have to admit hubby and I got a kick out of Ron and Judy, cause they're kind of like he and I).

I liked that they didn't try to load in 5 million fan favorite characters. Yes my favorite character wasn't there (died in DoTM), but it just gave me the opportunity to like a different character. I felt as if we got to see more of the 'bots because there were less of them.

That being said, I understand there's some complaints about Hound, Crosshairs, Drift, and Bee and their 'antics' and dialog...

With Hound, honestly, it felt as if the writers had been using him to poke fun at the old 'war hero' movies, from his cgi design to his personality, and John Goodman was perfect for the gritty 'almost John Wayne' style of voice. I did feel the cheesy lines were there as a poke at those old war movies and the way our American attitude is viewed by the rest of world, over the top violent dialog. Since the onslaught of World War II movies back in the late 40's, we've portrayed ourselves like that. Is it a bit much? Yeah, but if that was the intention, then it's more of chuckle on 'American Attitude' than just gratuitously violent dialog.
Though I did feel his dialog mirrored Ironhide's dialog from the first movie a bit too much at times.

Crosshairs, Drift, and Bee being a little harsh, with each other especially... it felt to me as if the writers were trying to get us to feel like they were a bunch of young guys, left in a very stressful (war) situation for many years and the fighting was more of the good natured blowing off steam. These guys have been being pushed around and hunted by creatures they could simply step on and kill; all the while not being able to leave the planet (and their problems) or retaliating at all or defending themselves. I would assume, that even a Cybertronian, caught in a perpetual state of tension and conflict would need a release, on their buddies... in a good natured way.

Last comment on that nature...

I'm one of those people who doesn't believe a person (or bot in this case) is all good or all bad. I hate that. Even the most downright evil person has something good about them.... it's just completely negated by all the nasty evilness they posses. Also, even the most honorable good person has an aspect that's not that great, but is negated by their good side.

In the end, the average person, and extending to the average bot, might be good, but it doesn't mean they have to be perfect. I want my characters to never be ALL good, have some irritating, annoying, less than savory, aspect to their personality.
It's why I won't really complain about Optimus' less than noble lines. I think they went to far... but then.. it's an action movie. Optimus should have some anger and lash out a bit (but they could have ended the bloodthirsty attitude in the beginning).

Having said that, I did enjoy the movie. Mostly because I sat down with little expectation other than seeing giant robots blowing crap up. It had more plot than I was expecting, and much better acting than I expected (I never thought Mark Wahlberg was much of an actor, he did well in this role though). I liked that Tessa wasn't just t&a... she was pretty, she was there for the guys to oogle at, but the character was smart and pretty but didn't get overbearing with either trait. She balances her traits, which parts from the usual action movie stereotype.
(Shane we could have done without)

Though I would have loved to see more of Darcy and Yueming in the movie. Both actresses seemed underutilized, they clearly could have brought more to the movie. Smart, powerful, (and pretty) and like Tessa, were a mix of all three traits rather than just being smart, powerful, or pretty.

Now.. I wasn't supposed to ramble on as much as I did... so I'll end it here.

[SlyTF1]

I finally broke down and saw the movie last night (after being warned by hubby's co workers not to see it in the theater, which I regret, explosions are far more thrilling with theater surround sound, which I've been wanting to get installed since we bought our house in June).

One of the best parts about watching it in IMAX was in the opening scene, when all the seeds detonated, the entire theater shook and it felt like the sound was literally punching me in the chest. It was the most badass thing ever. Every gun shot felt real. I don't know why the hell people insist on not seeing these types of movies in a theater. Those are the best places to see them. Even if you're not enthralled by the story or characters, at least it still has that sense of it being an attraction; an event. That's how these movies are supposed to be viewed, anyway.

[chivesbot20]

Great review. But Skywarped 128 If the only villain was Lockdown, The movie would drag even more IMO. BUt the one part I disagree with is the parts on Optimus…….every part. But other wise the review is great and can't wait til part 3

Just curious, but how would having just Lockdown drag the movie even longer? The plot would be more simplified, and there would be more focus on just the concept of the Creators and the Knights. I know some would argue that TF5 will explain these further, but there needs to be at least some basic explanation of these concepts within AOE itself. The Creators were sufficiently explained with enough questions to keep the viewer interested (good job, Kruger), but the knights needed a lot more explaining so as not to leave the viewer confused.

So Optimus used to be a knight, but what exactly ARE knights in the context of AOE? Are they enforcers of the Creators' colonies? And having Dino modes, does that make the Dinobots former enforcers of Earth? Who exactly are they enforcing on a planet populated solely by dinosaurs? And why did they rebel? These things need to be explained in THIS movie, not the next. Because it leaves the viewer confused and unsatisfied if he has to wait for the next movie to find out. This isn't a TV series where the answer is just 24 hours away.

To Kruger's credit, this is proof that the idea is an interesting one if it makes the viewer (me at least) long for more answers.

Back to the point, just by further elaborating on the role of the knights and giving the Dinobots a more prominent role, the movie would be more focused (there's that word again ) and feel more satisfying.


The whole KSI idea with Megatron's rebirth into Galvatron is enough to hold a second movie on its own. It would also give Kruger time to figure out how to make sense of the "no soul but alive" thing.

I think Kruger comes up with some really cool ideas (even if the base concepts were borrowed from other TF media), but he never seems able to just stay with it throughout the movie. He seems to just introduce the concept enough to grab the viewer's attention, and then flounders to the other cool ideas, leaving inconsistencies in the plot.

Igor's head was his body. Megatron's head wasn't.

Exactly! Which leads me to another peeve regarding movieverse ideas.

Yeah, the Igor thing seems pretty fun as concept art, but they don't ever bother to explain why Long Haul's head, if it IS indeed Long Haul's head, managed to sprout limbs, detach from its body and take on the personality of a demented servant.

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

[ctrlFrequency]

I finally broke down and saw the movie last night (after being warned by hubby's co workers not to see it in the theater, which I regret, explosions are far more thrilling with theater surround sound, which I've been wanting to get installed since we bought our house in June).

One of the best parts about watching it in IMAX was in the opening scene, when all the seeds detonated, the entire theater shook and it felt like the sound was literally punching me in the chest. It was the most badass thing ever. Every gun shot felt real. I don't know why the hell people insist on not seeing these types of movies in a theater. Those are the best places to see them. Even if you're not enthralled by the story or characters, at least it still has that sense of it being an attraction; an event. That's how these movies are supposed to be viewed, anyway.

Oh I'm regretting it... Trust me :p I agree movies like that should be seen in the theater, I wish I hadn't gotten talked out of it.

[SKYWARPED_128]

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

If one were to go by head canon, it's quite possible, and an interesting idea. But personally, I still prefer things to be explained and confirmed in the movie itself.

[Sabrblade]

You know you've written a good review when people are actually willing to read what could be 6 pages of tightly-packed words when printed on paper.

When typing it in MS Word, it came out to being 42 pages.

I thought he assumed the knight mode when he grabbed the Sword of Judgement. That's why his arms changed. It wasn't silver, but he certainly looked more like a knight.

Reread my review when I discuss the sword-pulling scene. Each time.

Specifically these parts:

He walks back into the crashed ship and, with the words “Recognize one of your Knights," he pulls a sword out of a pulpit holding many other swords, causing him to undergo a super quick blink-and-you’ll-miss-it cosmetic change to his arms (JUST his arms).

And YES, I KNOW that it originally stemmed from an aborted plan for Optimus to attain his “Silver Knight” upgrade that the toys had, as there exists concept art for it:

BUT, this upgrade was never realized in the final cut of the movie. The only upgrades Optimus undergoes are first his Trans-scanning from one truck to another in the desert, and then later his minor cosmetic change when he pulled his sword out of its pedestal, which affected ONLY his arms. Not his legs, not his whole body, JUST his arms. We can speculate and guess that the arm upgrade might have also upgraded the inner working of his legs all we want, but at the end of the day, it’s only speculation, not truth. Therefore, this flight capability that was leftover from a discarded concept has NO explanation and comes completely out of nowhere in the final version of the movie.

First of all, I get it. I get that Bay likes putting emphasis on the spectacle aspects of his movies. I get that he prioritizes that above all else. But really, that’s the issue. To put it another way, he focus primarily on making the most delicious icing ever tasted in existence, rather than putting enough focus on the cake itself. But the cake is main part of the dessert, with the icing being the extra flavor. Meaning that Bay gives more attention to the extra flavor than he does the main body of his work, and tries to hide a subpar cake behind layers of additional flavoring. To use a different metaphor, he tries to cure the symptoms rather than cure the illness.

Thank you! Sabrblade, you've perfectly summed up precisely why I can't stand these movies. I'm a narrative guy...I like a good story. If I can't have a good story, I at least like the story to make basic sense. It's clear that logic takes a backseat during the writing process and Bay and Kruger focus more on what spectacles they want to create. Nothing wrong with having spectacle in your movie; like you said, it's the icing on the cake. But you can't just have icing, you need the cake...a good story and likeable, relatable characters to tie everything together.

Precisely. You can't make a proper cake without the necessary ingredients needed to make it, but you CAN make a proper cake without icing.

I agree with a lot of it, and I also disagree with some things. However, as you said, it's an opinion. We all have 1.

Feel free to counter anything I've written. I welcome friendly discussion.

That being said, I understand there's some complaints about Hound, Crosshairs, Drift, and Bee and their 'antics' and dialog...

With Hound, honestly, it felt as if the writers had been using him to poke fun at the old 'war hero' movies, from his cgi design to his personality, and John Goodman was perfect for the gritty 'almost John Wayne' style of voice. I did feel the cheesy lines were there as a poke at those old war movies and the way our American attitude is viewed by the rest of world, over the top violent dialog. Since the onslaught of World War II movies back in the late 40's, we've portrayed ourselves like that. Is it a bit much? Yeah, but if that was the intention, then it's more of chuckle on 'American Attitude' than just gratuitously violent dialog.
Though I did feel his dialog mirrored Ironhide's dialog from the first movie a bit too much at times.

Crosshairs, Drift, and Bee being a little harsh, with each other especially... it felt to me as if the writers were trying to get us to feel like they were a bunch of young guys, left in a very stressful (war) situation for many years and the fighting was more of the good natured blowing off steam. These guys have been being pushed around and hunted by creatures they could simply step on and kill; all the while not being able to leave the planet (and their problems) or retaliating at all or defending themselves. I would assume, that even a Cybertronian, caught in a perpetual state of tension and conflict would need a release, on their buddies... in a good natured way.

Last comment on that nature...

I'm one of those people who doesn't believe a person (or bot in this case) is all good or all bad. I hate that. Even the most downright evil person has something good about them.... it's just completely negated by all the nasty evilness they posses. Also, even the most honorable good person has an aspect that's not that great, but is negated by their good side.

In the end, the average person, and extending to the average bot, might be good, but it doesn't mean they have to be perfect. I want my characters to never be ALL good, have some irritating, annoying, less than savory, aspect to their personality.
It's why I won't really complain about Optimus' less than noble lines. I think they went to far... but then.. it's an action movie. Optimus should have some anger and lash out a bit (but they could have ended the bloodthirsty attitude in the beginning).

I get what you're saying, and while I do agree that I also wouldn't want the Autobots to be angelically perfect in their goodness (since that would be boring if it wasn't done for parody or satirical purposes), I still feel that what we get was too mean-spirited for their being the heroes of this movie. It's not just the fact that they act so callously, but that they do so without any remorse. Not one of them ever feels any regret for the less-than-noble actions they undertake in this movie. Hound and Crosshairs were especially the worst regarding this, since both of them were obsessed with homicide. They loved and relished committing acts of murder, and constantly spoke about how they wanted something to kill every chance they got. The two of them were practically addicted to murder, and that's far from being a healthy attribute of any characters, let alone members of the good guy hero team looked up to and admired by countless amounts of children since 1984.

One of the best parts about watching it in IMAX was in the opening scene, when all the seeds detonated, the entire theater shook and it felt like the sound was literally punching me in the chest. It was the most badass thing ever. Every gun shot felt real. I don't know why the hell people insist on not seeing these types of movies in a theater. Those are the best places to see them. Even if you're not enthralled by the story or characters, at least it still has that sense of it being an attraction; an event. That's how these movies are supposed to be viewed, anyway.

Remind me never to hand you any sharp objects, projectile launchers, or anything that could be used as a weapon.

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

If you mean Igor, that still supports my statement of Igor's head being his body while Megatron's head was not.

And I'm looking for facts, not speculation. If this movie doesn't have the answers, then that's a shortcoming of the movie and those who made it.

[SlyTF1]

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

If you mean Igor, that still supports my statement of Igor's head being his body while Megatron's head was not.

And I'm looking for facts, not speculation. If this movie doesn't have the answers, then that's a shortcoming of the movie and those who made it.

The drones that were crawling around in Megatron's head in DOTM. AOE showed the Insecticons, but as far as I'm concerned, they're the same entity.

[Sabrblade]

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

If you mean Igor, that still supports my statement of Igor's head being his body while Megatron's head was not.

And I'm looking for facts, not speculation. If this movie doesn't have the answers, then that's a shortcoming of the movie and those who made it.

The drones that were crawling around in Megatron's head in DOTM. AOE showed the Insecticons, but as far as I'm concerned, they're the same entity.

Umm... That's relevant, how?

That still doesn't explain how Megatron's head could still be alive despite its being disconnected to the source of life that kept it alive back when it was still attached to his body. And, again, because the movie gives no answer, that's the movie's fault.

[SKYWARPED_128]

When typing it in MS Word, it came out to being 42 pages.

Feel free to counter anything I've written. I welcome friendly discussion.

I know you were talking to Rodimus, but....

I actually thought Optimus acted well within reason in AoE, over-dramatic homicidal dialogue notwithstanding.

If anything, I was surprised that he hadn't gotten jaded with the humans earlier. And frankly, I have to wonder about the incompetence of the government in sending such obnoxious, highhanded liaisons to speak with the Autobots. Both Galloway and Meering aren't exactly shining examples of diplomacy and tact. I know this is just Bay and/or the writers trying to inject humor into the movie, but it's not working...for my tastes, at least.

Some might argue that this shows Optimus' character as a patient, long-suffering leader. Which is true, but only if the viewer is rooting for the people he's trying to save. And with Shia's character being the representative "face" of humanity that Optimus is trying to protect, I'm hard-pressed to say I want Optimus to succeed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I just don't feel that the massive sacrifices Optimus has made for mankind is worth it, because most of the humans I saw in the first 3 films are just not likeable at all. In that sense, I can't root for him or his cause.

In AOE, when he's finally had enough of human shenanigans and their thirst for alien weapons technology, is when I can finally empathize with him.

With that said, I totally agree that the AOE Autobots were comically psychopathic. Crosshairs in particular. What I mean by comical, is that they try too hard to be that way.

Crosshairs: "I been waitin' for them all to dispatch each other so I can take charge with no trouble at all! Just me reportin' to me."

I mean, you might be thinking something like this in your mind, but who would actually say something like that out loud? And in front of your own leader?

The rest, I'll let slide because Hound is at least entertaining and strangely likeable, and I'm indifferent to BB and Drift.

[SlyTF1]

He could be a headmaster of some sort.

If you mean Igor, that still supports my statement of Igor's head being his body while Megatron's head was not.

And I'm looking for facts, not speculation. If this movie doesn't have the answers, then that's a shortcoming of the movie and those who made it.

The drones that were crawling around in Megatron's head in DOTM. AOE showed the Insecticons, but as far as I'm concerned, they're the same entity.

Umm... That's relevant, how?

That still doesn't explain how Megatron's head could still be alive despite its being disconnected to the source of life that kept it alive back when it was still attached to his body. And, again, because the movie gives no answer, that's the movie's fault.

They preserved his mind.

[Sabrblade]

They preserved his mind.

"They" who? Certainly not KSI, since they lacked both the means to and the intention of doing so, since what they were doing was science, not alchemy.

Plus, as Prime said, the mind is in the Spark, which wasn't in Megatron's head and Galvatron didn't have.

[Noideaforaname]

There needed to be an actual, in-movie, non-fan-theory, given reason as to why Megatron survived. Especially when DotM was clearly attempting to completely remove him from the picture, and when AoE makes a big deal about souls (which sorta seemed like it was supposed to set off an existential crisis in Optimus given he's "man"-made just like the soulless Galvatron). "He wasn't as dead as they thought" doesn't come close to cutting it.