The Energon Pub

robofreak wrote:

NuclearConvoy wrote:

robofreak wrote:I looked at the pictures and noticed that the individual figures do have hands! They're tucked into the armour, kinda like G1 Vortex.

Err...are you certain?

Yep! Look carefully at the guy I'm assuming is Jetfire (orange one) In the area where his right hand should be you'll notive a slight bulge that looks like it is not part of the transformation. I'm willing to bet that it's a hand.

Looks kinda like a vestigial stub, if anything...

Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.

Nekoman wrote:

bumblebeerocks wrote:We wanted combiners. They gave us combiners. We complained.

You say "we" as if you have factual evidence that everyone who is a Transformers fan was begging on their knees for combiners in Animated. I and others I’m sure couldn’t have cared less.

Oh, wait, that’s right, I’m not a “true” fan.

What does "true fan" even mean? I like Gundam, Voltron, Macross, and TF's so does that mean I'm not a true fan? I've got almost 400 TF's that would make anyone arguing my fanhood reconsider.

robofreak wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.

Nekoman wrote:

bumblebeerocks wrote:We wanted combiners. They gave us combiners. We complained.

You say "we" as if you have factual evidence that everyone who is a Transformers fan was begging on their knees for combiners in Animated. I and others I’m sure couldn’t have cared less.

Oh, wait, that’s right, I’m not a “true” fan.

What does "true fan" even mean? I like Gundam, Voltron, Macross, and TF's so does that mean I'm not a true fan? I've got almost 400 TF's that would make anyone arguing my fanhood reconsider.

"True Fan" is a ludicrous monicker used by one person, based on his subjective beliefs, to ridicule and berate another person because they don't share the first's beliefs.

And, if you wanted to extrapolate on the term beyond that, a "True Fan" would most easily be someone who is never upset with anything done with the Franchise...which I think makes no one a "True Fan" cause I'm certain that everyone dislikes at least one thing done over the past 25 years of comics, cartoons, movies, toys and other merchandise.

umm...........yuck.

At botcon we asked if there was gonna be combiners. They said no. We whined. They gave us combiners. we whined. Nothing pleases the tf fandom does it?

chronic wrote:perhaps the more accurate term is gestalt, this thing looks like something the left out of super-link

I was under the impression that "Gestalt" was just another word for combiner... Anyhow, Safeguard is a combined robot with a different head from either of his component robots, so I'm not sure how you decide he doesn't count. Unless you only count Scramble-City-style five-combiners as Gestalts, but that would exclude Devastator. Either way, thre isn't really a way to make it "not count" without using a rather lopsided definition of "gestalt". I'm not necessarily defending the toy (I wanna see some definite hands before I do that), but misuse of terminology irks me. Eventually the words stop meaning anything.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

chronic wrote:perhaps the more accurate term is gestalt, this thing looks like something the left out of super-link

I was under the impression that "Gestalt" was just another word for combiner... Anyhow, Safeguard is a combined robot with a different head from either of his component robots, so I'm not sure how you decide he doesn't count. Unless you only count Scramble-City-style five-combiners as Gestalts, but that would exclude Devastator. Either way, thre isn't really a way to make it "not count" without using a rather lopsided definition of "gestalt". I'm not necessarily defending the toy (I wanna see some definite hands before I do that), but misuse of terminology irks me. Eventually the words stop meaning anything.

Gestalt: A physical, biological, psychological, or symbolic configuration or pattern of elements so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts.

I can't believe this discussion is getting philosophical. It a frikkin toy for crying out loud!

robofreak wrote:I can't believe this discussion is getting philosophical. It a frikkin toy for crying out loud!

Philosophical? We're splitting hairs over symantics here.

Also, is it just me, or does Jetfire remind anyone else of the Crossovers Human Torch Transformer?

Y'know, the whole Harvey Two-Face way that they combine is neat and all, but... very poorly executed.
Where's their hands, for one thing?
And precisely what are those alt modes supposed to be?

Sorry, Hasbro, somebody fell asleep at the wheel this time.
This is a definite and wholehearted pass for me.

So... is this one of those "fan outrage" things I hear about so much?

I don't think it's 'Fan Outrage' as much as the majority just agreeing that it's a pretty crappy looking toy, and a pretty crappy looking Combiner, and everyones wondering where his hands are.

The general concensus seems to be, "gay"

I don't think it crappy. I just find it to be a little bland.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

robofreak wrote:I can't believe this discussion is getting philosophical. It a frikkin toy for crying out loud!

Philosophical? We're splitting hairs over symantics here.

Also, is it just me, or does Jetfire remind anyone else of the Crossovers Human Torch Transformer?

The only thing we're missing at this point is a page long article from Counterpunch about this figure.

What's funny is that 10 years ago Takara had a line called GaoGaiGar and in it had two truck robots that combined the same way but actually looked good. This is going to go the way of Energon Grimlock and Swoop. Not that great of a toy but a big collectors item.

robofreak wrote:The only thing we're missing at this point is a page long article from Counterpunch about this figure.

I thought the main thing missing was hands.

bumblebeerocks wrote:At botcon we asked if there was gonna be combiners. They said no. We whined. They gave us combiners. we whined. Nothing pleases the tf fandom does it?

I suppose you didn’t understand what I was getting at.

See, when you use words like “we” and “us” like you are, it would seem that you think EVERYONE thinks just like you were describing.

The thing is though, not everyone was asking for an gestalt in Animated. Deep down, each individual may have liked one, may, but not enough to ask for it. Others did though, but not everyone complaining was asking for this.

Or in other words: don’t go around acting like every freaking person was on their knees, begging and pleading for combiners in Animated. They weren’t.

And to answer your question, no. Someone will always be displeased, so what. No two people are the same.

Autobot032 wrote:*sighs* Well, there's a preorder to cancel. Those are just awful. They didn't even try with these two. Just pointless filler.

So now...Oil Slick, Jetfire, and Jetstorm are total writeoffs.

Can't win 'em all I guess.

Now now, Oil Slick is not bad, I actually like his figure, it suits his alt. mode well.

These two figures, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... ... ... sucktacular

Really my main complaint is just the lack of hands. I can forgive the lackluster alt modes, they can get by with saying those are their cybertronian alts. I thought Megatron's cybertronian alt mode sucked to, but he made up for it with a good bot mode. Maybe I make some custom hands for these poor guys.

.
Hmmm.... I guess these guys are just as popular as Wheelie


.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

robofreak wrote:The only thing we're missing at this point is a page long article from Counterpunch about this figure.

I thought the main thing missing was hands.

That too.

Honestly, I've stopped caring what the fandom thinks. I buy whatever TF's I like and research ones that interest me, but know nothing about so I can justify buying them. City Commander is a result of research for me.

I like combiners as much as the next guy, but I can always do without them. Jetfire and Jetstorm might not be everyones cup of tea, but that does'nt mean we should burn down Hasbro headquaters. I respect every design that comes from them because I have a pretty good idea of what is involved in producing a toy. I can guarantee anyone on this board that these were not easy figures to make. A TF is one thing, but a combiner? Whole different game because you're dealing with more than just one figure now, you're trying to figure out how to make 2 or more figures become one.

Enough said.

robofreak wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

robofreak wrote:The only thing we're missing at this point is a page long article from Counterpunch about this figure.

I thought the main thing missing was hands.

That too.

Honestly, I've stopped caring what the fandom thinks. I buy whatever TF's I like and research ones that interest me, but know nothing about so I can justify buying them. City Commander is a result of research for me.

I like combiners as much as the next guy, but I can always do without them. Jetfire and Jetstorm might not be everyones cup of tea, but that does'nt mean we should burn down Hasbro headquaters. I respect every design that comes from them because I have a pretty good idea of what is involved in producing a toy. I can guarantee anyone on this board that these were not easy figures to make. A TF is one thing, but a combiner? Whole different game because you're dealing with more than just one figure now, you're trying to figure out how to make 2 or more figures become one.

I'm with you on this, and I think the "punish Hasbro" rather than "decline to buy this item" reaction is a bit severe. That said, this is a very experienced design team, and this doesn't look up to their usual standards, so I think the disappointment is understndable and possibly even justified, even if you don't care for how it's being expressed.

I guess I'm one of the few fans who actually likes these guys. The alt and bot modes look pretty good to me, and I'm sure there are hands on that Gestalt mode...it's probably just mistransformed. Still, the symmetry looks awesome on the gestalt mode. The combined plane mode....yea...moving on...

The head sculpts look awesome. If nothing else, you guys have to admit that.

Well, i salute the first figure from the animated line that i wont be buying in a million years. Thats a record, i think.

Thanks Nemesis Primal.

I also forgot to mention that on top of the difficulty involved in making a combiner, Hasbro designers are also dealing with the fact that they have to not only pull off a combined mode, but also maintain the Animated asthetic. This is literally a first for them. The Animated asthetic appears to me to be very difficult to pull off as a toy because of the stylized animation used in the cartton. I think if the Hasbro design team does any more Animated combiners we will see much better results. Jetfire and Jetstorm had to play the role of guinea pig in order to help the designers learn how far they could push the Animated designs into doing what other TF's do.

The alt modes make me think of the Abigor from Victory Gundam
( http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/v/zm-d11s.htm )and Galguyu (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/v/zmt-d15m.htm) from the same.