The Energon Pub

On-topic now please/k/good.

Please take the personal discussion to PM or to the Admin for review.

Thank you.

Nekoman wrote:I think the KO serves okay as a fill in for Thundercracker. Though I gotta say, after paint supplies, reprolabels and the cost of importing the knockoff, wouldn't it not be much cheaper than actually buying Gentei Thundercracker? Reprolabels aren't exactly cheap.

Doesn't help that stickers tend to lose their glue and fall off in a shorter amount of time than paint takes to get in a similar state of untidyness.



Stickers- fun to apply, absolutely useless after that.



In my experience anyway.


Thinking about something already mentioned, I'm tempted to buy a few of the white ones of these seeker KOs and make me some deluxe aerialbots to sits with utlra Silverbolt. That'd be snazzy.

As to the cost of importing this KO vs. buying the Henkei Thundercracker, you have to consider that currently you can’t even buy Henkei Thundercracker for anywhere near it’s original price. It’s not on BBTS, and current asking price on ebay starts at $200+! Meanwhile past Classic Starscream toys have sold for $8 to $10 plus shipping from KO toys. Reprolabels sells a set of all six Seekers labels for $18. So even with shipping this will cost a LOT less.

Also, there are currently only THREE Henkei Thundercrackers on ebay, and NO Botcon Thundercrackers. I’m guessing more than three people want this toy.

GetterDragun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:I could own Thundercracker, without having to pay $90s for a toy? Sign me up!

Nope, but you could own a light blue KO though!

So? Does the Fans Project City Commander not equal a KO of Ultra Magnus? Or their Defender release not equal a KO of Springer? I don't see the point of debate. So what if it's a KO, half the toys that are in the news on the site are KOs.

What if it is? It's illegal! This is the intellectual property of Hasbro.

So you're saying you're ok with people stealing stuff. And I'm assuming that as long as it's not your stuff it is ok.

Buying knockoffs is stealing.

Remember that when the Fansproject Defender comes out, or when the HOS Prime comes out.

Neither Defender nor City Commander are knockoffs, they are original molds. Even I admit, this is a copied mold from Hasbro. owning one isn't illegal, and it's up to Hasbro to sue the manufacturers if they feel these violate their IP.

Scaleface wrote:Neither Defender nor City Commander are knockoffs, they are original molds. Even I admit, this is a copied mold from Hasbro. owning one isn't illegal, and it's up to Hasbro to sue the manufacturers if they feel these violate their IP.

I'm going to stop this line of debate right now. It's off topic and will only lead down bad roads.

The subject of this thread is "KO Classic Skywarp & Thundercracker" - so how is saying this toy is a KO off topic?

Because they do not relate to the mold the topic is about. The conversation is about whether other molds should be considered KO's or not, thus, off topic.

Counterpunch has said and Mkall has said to keep things on topic related to the classic seeker mold KO's, so let's do that huh?

This is a knockoff, it's also one many fans have been hoping for for years. Hurray for blue seeker knockoffs!

The topic shouldn't be "Buyers Beware: KO Classic Skywarp & Thundercracker" it should be "Buyers Rejoice: KO Classic Skywarp & Thundercracker!"

I hope we get a nice "orange seeker" too.

Even if you have a Thundercracker already, maybe this can be one of the Rainmakers or something.

Scaleface wrote:This is a knockoff, it's also one many fans have been hoping for for years. Hurray for blue seeker knockoffs!

The topic shouldn't be "Buyers Beware: KO Classic Skywarp & Thundercracker" it should be "Buyers Rejoice: KO Classic Skywarp & Thundercracker!"

I hope we get a nice "orange seeker" too.

Even if you have a Thundercracker already, maybe this can be one of the Rainmakers or something.

I'd buy 10 or 12 of them, just for funsies.

City Commander wrote:I'm sorry my post was so blunt, but doesn't it boil down to the same? You're angry because a figure you bought for a large sum is now more or less available to the wider audience for less right?

But then, and what I can't understand, you know this isn't botcon TC. Anyone buying botcon TC will know it's not (going on the thought that botcon collectors have actually seen the figure they want before going out to find it), it's obviously inferior in that it's plain blue and undoubtedly lower grade plastic. Why get annoyed by it, and take shots at others that like it?

You're not the only one who bought botcon Thundercracker man.

Besides, what I could've written would have been a tired argument that has been posted many times before, every time classics TC raises his head. And I'm tired of posting it.

I find it funny you are assuming I'm mad about the money I spent on BotCon Thundercracker. I paid less than $40 for both of mine. It is only you who are assuming that I am mad about the money. I never said anything about the cost, it's just funny that you are the one who keeps bringing up the cost.

I'm upset at knockoffs because they are stealing Hasbro's intellectual property. I also find all the justification for KOs funny too. I'm sorry, but it is stealing. If you can't afford it, you don't get to buy it. Same thing with movie and music torrents, you didn't pay for it, so you don't get to have it.

Absolute Zero wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:I could own Thundercracker, without having to pay $90s for a toy? Sign me up!

Nope, but you could own a light blue KO though!

So? Does the Fans Project City Commander not equal a KO of Ultra Magnus? Or their Defender release not equal a KO of Springer? I don't see the point of debate. So what if it's a KO, half the toys that are in the news on the site are KOs.

What if it is? It's illegal! This is the intellectual property of Hasbro.

So you're saying you're ok with people stealing stuff. And I'm assuming that as long as it's not your stuff it is ok.

Buying knockoffs is stealing.

Remember that when the Fansproject Defender comes out, or when the HOS Prime comes out.

I don't purchase third party items for that reason.

I don't think anybody should be upset about these.

Does this decrease the value if you have an original SW/Thundercracker and want to hold onto it? Nope.
Does this increase the chance you're buying a fake one if you want to buy a genuine SW/TC? Nope, you can tell by the differences. If you're dumb enough to not tell the difference, or don't ask for pics before buying, it's your problem, there are easily recognizable differences.
Does this hurt Hasbro? Nope, it was dumb enough to release wide-liked characters to a small number of people. Hasbro could easily make more profit if it would cease making Exclusives out of their best figures.

The only people this could hurt are scalpels who are holding onto a figure without the intention to play with them, but to sell them for a profit - and still, their only problem should be the shrinking of their market, but they can still sell them for those who are looking for genuine figures.

GetterDragun wrote:

City Commander wrote:I'm sorry my post was so blunt, but doesn't it boil down to the same? You're angry because a figure you bought for a large sum is now more or less available to the wider audience for less right?

But then, and what I can't understand, you know this isn't botcon TC. Anyone buying botcon TC will know it's not (going on the thought that botcon collectors have actually seen the figure they want before going out to find it), it's obviously inferior in that it's plain blue and undoubtedly lower grade plastic. Why get annoyed by it, and take shots at others that like it?

You're not the only one who bought botcon Thundercracker man.

Besides, what I could've written would have been a tired argument that has been posted many times before, every time classics TC raises his head. And I'm tired of posting it.

I find it funny you are assuming I'm mad about the money I spent on BotCon Thundercracker. I paid less than $40 for both of mine. It is only you who are assuming that I am mad about the money. I never said anything about the cost, it's just funny that you are the one who keeps bringing up the cost.

I'm upset at knockoffs because they are stealing Hasbro's intellectual property. I also find all the justification for KOs funny too. I'm sorry, but it is stealing. If you can't afford it, you don't get to buy it. Same thing with movie and music torrents, you didn't pay for it, so you don't get to have it.

In this day and age, that's both refreshing and shocking. If that's really why you post the same thing every time, then I can't fault you for it. Even if it does annoy me



wrt City Commander and Defender, man are you missing out. Man oh man.

If people are upset about them stealing Hasbro's IP, then why only the concern posted when THUNDERCRACKER is knocked off? We've seen this exact mold knocked off in different colors over a year ago! It's only when it went BLUE anyone mentioned it.

One of the mates of this have of knockoffs is a Classics Nemesis Prime KO! He was even a convention exclusive. Again, no one seems to care of anything but TC. Whether you paid $40 or $400 for it originally, it's highly valuable in resale right now, and I think that's why people care. If TC had been a Walmart store exclusive, would anyone care at all?

If they're plain blue/black Then it's better for me. It will be easier to customize.

Scaleface wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:I might try my hand at kitbashing with them if they're cheap enough. Does the site have a picture of Skywarp Scaleface? Is he repainted like the Thundercracker KO?

Here are pictures of the KO white seeker and the KO black seeker no one seems to care about as much as the KO blue seeker:





As you can see they have also perfectly Knocked off Hasbro's ability to mistransform toys on the backs of the boxes!

Damn. Those are freaking nice. I'm definitely getting the white one and the black one if I can find them for a good price. I think I want the white one even more than I want the black one. And I love my black repaints.

I think the white one is going to sell the best. It looks to be the easiest to customize. So kitbashers are going to be all over it.

Real Devastator wrote:

Loki God Of Mischief wrote:
Receiving stolen property actually. But then again so is buying stolen Chinese Prototypes/toys.

That is if it was a crime. Buying knockoffs is not a crime. Making them may or may not depending on the country of origin. And usually the stores buying them have no clue that they are knock offs. However buying stolen merchandise actually is a crime.

Look. Can we just agree to disagree and avoid a bunch of drama? People don't agree with you, you don't agree with them. The only rational thing is for everyone to just accept that both parties have valid arguments and neither side is completely correct.

I need to correct u that the prototypes or for that matter S250 or Gen Zhao's newly unseen toys etc, are NOT stolen toys.
Those are rejects from the factory that unable to pass the QC.
These rejects are put on sale, so u will see it on eBay or someone else will buy it and post the images online way before official release.

Eg. Leader Class Starscream - why are the toys from Peaugh or Seibertron gallery or S250 etc, the electronic gimmicks are dead? We have seen Leader Class SS toys, but no one can confirm what is his voice gimmicks now right?
Why is such a coincidence?

If you are interested to be another guy that has access to unseen/unrelease toys and has loads of money, i can tell you who or where to look for.


Do you think Hasbro has such poor security system that they keep losing toys everyday continuously for 20 or 30 years?
I dont think Hasbro is stupid, all the news (officially or unofficially) are sanction by them, one way or another.

I've seen boxed and carded samples up on ebay homie. For about 3 months before Voyager Bludgeon came out I considered dropping $55 on a boxed one. I ended up paying $30 for a legit one instead because I bought other crap instead. There was also a carded sample of TRU Animooted Arcee (sold for $250ish) and TRU Animooted Cybertron mode Ratchet (didn't care enough to find out how much he sold for). Carded samples are test shots or in some cases prototype samples. Now those are stolen. I'm willing to take your word that the loose ones are discarded toys.

As for the offer the only one I'm even considering buying early is Animooted Arcee. Because I swear she's cursed at retail. I'd rather take my chances with a stolen toy or a discarded toy than not have one and Arcee getting canceled.

GetterDragun wrote:I find it funny you are assuming I'm mad about the money I spent on BotCon Thundercracker. I paid less than $40 for both of mine. It is only you who are assuming that I am mad about the money. I never said anything about the cost, it's just funny that you are the one who keeps bringing up the cost.

So you don't care about the money and you have two of them? How about you sell me your spare for $40? It'd be a cool move on your part. And I'd be endlessly happy with you.

quote="Absolute Zero"]

GetterDragun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:I could own Thundercracker, without having to pay $90s for a toy? Sign me up!

Nope, but you could own a light blue KO though!

So? Does the Fans Project City Commander not equal a KO of Ultra Magnus? Or their Defender release not equal a KO of Springer? I don't see the point of debate. So what if it's a KO, half the toys that are in the news on the site are KOs.[/quote]

What if it is? It's illegal! This is the intellectual property of Hasbro.

So you're saying you're ok with people stealing stuff. And I'm assuming that as long as it's not your stuff it is ok.

Buying knockoffs is stealing.[/quote]

Remember that when the Fansproject Defender comes out, or when the HOS Prime comes out. [/quote]

I don't purchase third party items for that reason.[/quote]

Buying a KO is not stealing,the one who made it is stealing, from hasbro. Many toys advertised here like FP toys could be considered KOs, (depending on your point of view) but I see some complaining here who wanted to buy i-Gear mini MP Prime or FP Defender.
A thir party toy is not buying a knock off or stealing They are their own molds different from other toys from the same character.
Wow, that one was a huge --- comment

Boy, is this thread headed for locksville, or what?

Anyway, if these do hit KOtoys, I'll be placeing a decent order, I have what I want, and 10 or 12 of each color for Counterpunch. Anyone else want in to save on shipping

Ha!

I knew this day would come with Universe KO TC. I wonder if Hasbro truly understands the amount of trouble and angst they caused the fandom by releasing TC, Dirge and Thrust as Botcon exclusives.

Once these become available on ebay, kotoys, or chimungmung.com for everyone we have to make sure and start a thread where people can post their customized "not Thundercrackers!"

BTW - There is a difference between a knockoff (immmitating someone elses mold), a fan custom (Magus armor, Defender, etc) and factory sample/prototype. Those later two are not knockoffs. I wish people wouldn't confuse the three.

I'll admit it, people making money off somebody else's intellectual property is a crime.
That said, buying these KOs would hardly be the first, nor the worst, illegal activity I've engaged in.
I look at it this way, the way those things are painted up, sure the masses could have a blue coloured seeker mold KO, but it wouldn't be Thundercracker. It would take time and effort to paint it into a decent lookalike, and the average fan can't do that. So people who can, here's your canvas, get to work.

- Sam

Thundercracker's been one of the most prominent characters in Generation One. When you tell someone who's been collecting Classics/Henkei - "No, Sorry, you can't have Thundercracker", do you think they'll lay there idly by and not want to get it?

Hell no, they'd be freaking jealous. If they still can't get the Henkei release a few years ago, this knock off is prime to fit in. The KO distributors might or might not know that this could be a hot topic.

I appreciate Hasbro for all the work they've done, but as fans can we just let this be? The KO doesn't depreciate the value of a Botcon Thundercracker, heck it probably enhances it more. The figure isn't even plagiarism towards the seeker mold. Yes it looks awfully the same but there could be a handful of differences.

In the end, this is not trying to copy 'Con Thundercracker or Henkei Thundercracker, it's just a generic seeker painted blue, and we're making a huge fuss of it because it just happens to look, intentionally or not intentionally, alot like the Thundercracker we know.

I think collecting is all about fun. Let's not try to be selfish here and try to be the only collectors who can enjoy a favourite and important character.

In regards to what or what not we call knock offs - I believe that almost everything produced by a 3rd party can be considered a knock off. Without the existence of something Hasbro has created, a creation is useless and void. So yes, that means everything FP has made is a knock-off to me. Upcoming Defender is not a knock-off, but everything prior that has been an attachment is. It might not appear to be... but that's what it boils down to.

City Commander wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

City Commander wrote:I'm sorry my post was so blunt, but doesn't it boil down to the same? You're angry because a figure you bought for a large sum is now more or less available to the wider audience for less right?

But then, and what I can't understand, you know this isn't botcon TC. Anyone buying botcon TC will know it's not (going on the thought that botcon collectors have actually seen the figure they want before going out to find it), it's obviously inferior in that it's plain blue and undoubtedly lower grade plastic. Why get annoyed by it, and take shots at others that like it?

You're not the only one who bought botcon Thundercracker man.

Besides, what I could've written would have been a tired argument that has been posted many times before, every time classics TC raises his head. And I'm tired of posting it.

I find it funny you are assuming I'm mad about the money I spent on BotCon Thundercracker. I paid less than $40 for both of mine. It is only you who are assuming that I am mad about the money. I never said anything about the cost, it's just funny that you are the one who keeps bringing up the cost.

I'm upset at knockoffs because they are stealing Hasbro's intellectual property. I also find all the justification for KOs funny too. I'm sorry, but it is stealing. If you can't afford it, you don't get to buy it. Same thing with movie and music torrents, you didn't pay for it, so you don't get to have it.

In this day and age, that's both refreshing and shocking. If that's really why you post the same thing every time, then I can't fault you for it. Even if it does annoy me



wrt City Commander and Defender, man are you missing out. Man oh man.

Yes. This is why I am against KOs. And yes, I am so tempted to get a City Commander, but I keep going back to thinking that my purchase is taking away the potential for Hasbro to do something cool like that.

And awkwardly we stand at a truce.