The Energon Pub

Omega Sentinel wrote:EDIT - Holy crap it looks like I actually agreed with Burn on something. Someone take notes

OH NOES!!111!! Whatever shall we doos??!!!

Should we ..

A) - Run around screaming "THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!"
B) - Loot
C) - Stay at home and get right royally drunk
D) - Stay at home on the internet and tell all your internet "friends" what you really think of them
E) - Run naked down the street
F) - Destroy all the porn you own then rush to church in the hope you can save your soul in time
or
G) - Nothing.

Burn for Diplomat, offering you choices on how to light your darkest hour without the need for a fancy Matrix.

Burn wrote:That's why I would also recommend three months, for both "leaders" and "diplomats", with a big tournament scheduled at the end of each term. Giving both leaders and diplomats a great way to prove their worth.

However the Diplomat system may work, I wouldn't lay odds on the Faction Leaders ever being democratically chosen. Though they aren't full mods they do have some limited moderator powers for the maintenance of their forums, which means ultimately Ryan and/or OS will want to have final say in who is or isn't a Faction Leader.

I could see a couple of potential compromises there, but that would be between you guys and the higher-ups.

I really haven't given much thought on how we will choose overall faction commanders but I like Burn's idea of rotating them like the diplomats.

I'd like to give it a shot, i wanna try more of a leadership role now

If the biggest concern about giving someone the power to modify the forums, then yes, they should be appointed by OS or Ryan. (Though once things are rolled out will there be a big need for modification to the forums?)

However in terms of game play, people should have a chance to be leaders as well as diplomats, like OS said earlier, it helps get people more involved in the game.

And like I raised in the FAQ thread, if you have a leader appointed by OS on the basis they can be trusted to modify the forums, then you might also end up with a leader that's absolutely worthless in the game and that would harm the faction.

just give them to whoever plays the most

sprockitz wrote:just give them to whoever plays the most

But then you would constantly be the leader of every faction

Omega Sentinel wrote:

sprockitz wrote:just give them to whoever plays the most

But then you would constantly be the leader of every faction

true except predacon, I've never been one of those.

but seriously time spent playing should be taken into consideration. Obviously when the restart rolls around everyone will be even initially so it will be obvious quickly who is the most active...but later on it becomes more difficult to see who is really active b/c just looking at xp is only an indication of overall time wasted on the game and not current activity level. Now it's probably something each faction needs to take into consideration for themselves when chosing leaders, but strategically speaking wouldn't you be more likely to negotiate with someone who could beat you up than with a weakling?

I would like to be a factionless leader. I have much deeploomacee skillzorz.

Ok, are we talking about the selected ambassadors or the Mods who are in charge of the factions currently? It is beginning to look like we are getting confused here. We need to figure out how the ambassadors\diplomats are going to be represented and IF the faction leadership\modship is going to be discussed, that should be in another thread.

I think this entire thread has gone from nominations to discussion.

But on the plus side it's still about diplomats!

sprockitz wrote:

Omega Sentinel wrote:

sprockitz wrote:just give them to whoever plays the most

But then you would constantly be the leader of every faction

true except predacon, I've never been one of those.

but seriously time spent playing should be taken into consideration. Obviously when the restart rolls around everyone will be even initially so it will be obvious quickly who is the most active...but later on it becomes more difficult to see who is really active b/c just looking at xp is only an indication of overall time wasted on the game and not current activity level. Now it's probably something each faction needs to take into consideration for themselves when chosing leaders, but strategically speaking wouldn't you be more likely to negotiate with someone who could beat you up than with a weakling?

Activity doesn't equal leadership skills. One needs to be charismatic, and able to formulate plans, and adapt those plans, as well as diplomatic enough to know when to compromise and when to grab your gun and shoot. Activity should be a factor, but not the only one.

It went to discussion because we have no real structure for the nominations, Burn. Apparently this is an idea that really isn't hammered out within the Leaders Forum.

Absolute Zero wrote:

sprockitz wrote:

Omega Sentinel wrote:

sprockitz wrote:just give them to whoever plays the most

But then you would constantly be the leader of every faction

true except predacon, I've never been one of those.

but seriously time spent playing should be taken into consideration. Obviously when the restart rolls around everyone will be even initially so it will be obvious quickly who is the most active...but later on it becomes more difficult to see who is really active b/c just looking at xp is only an indication of overall time wasted on the game and not current activity level. Now it's probably something each faction needs to take into consideration for themselves when chosing leaders, but strategically speaking wouldn't you be more likely to negotiate with someone who could beat you up than with a weakling?

Activity doesn't equal leadership skills. One needs to be charismatic, and able to formulate plans, and adapt those plans, as well as diplomatic enough to know when to compromise and when to grab your gun and shoot. Activity should be a factor, but not the only one.

that's why i said it should be taken into consideration. It's a prerequisite the way I see it.

Obviously the first post was a joke, it shouldn't be the sole identifier, but its a crucial part. Activity in both the game and the forums, probably moreso the forums. It obviously remains to be seen how crucial such positions are, I imagine people will get along without them or naturally develop sorta guidelines if no specific leader is given. And still for stuff to work whether or not their is a leader it requires the different members to keep up with the news and what territory battles to focus their efforts on..but again w/o specifics of how things will work this is something that will have to be figured out once v2 actually starts (not having them in place, we can have them in place), but how important they actually are.

As for the leader, basically I consider that a forum moderator, not necessarily the lead on strategic planning. They could be the same or they could be a different person.

sprockitz wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

sprockitz wrote:

Omega Sentinel wrote:

sprockitz wrote:just give them to whoever plays the most

But then you would constantly be the leader of every faction

true except predacon, I've never been one of those.

but seriously time spent playing should be taken into consideration. Obviously when the restart rolls around everyone will be even initially so it will be obvious quickly who is the most active...but later on it becomes more difficult to see who is really active b/c just looking at xp is only an indication of overall time wasted on the game and not current activity level. Now it's probably something each faction needs to take into consideration for themselves when chosing leaders, but strategically speaking wouldn't you be more likely to negotiate with someone who could beat you up than with a weakling?

Activity doesn't equal leadership skills. One needs to be charismatic, and able to formulate plans, and adapt those plans, as well as diplomatic enough to know when to compromise and when to grab your gun and shoot. Activity should be a factor, but not the only one.

that's why i said it should be taken into consideration. It's a prerequisite the way I see it.

Obviously the first post was a joke, it shouldn't be the sole identifier, but its a crucial part. Activity in both the game and the forums, probably moreso the forums. It obviously remains to be seen how crucial such positions are, I imagine people will get along without them or naturally develop sorta guidelines if no specific leader is given. And still for stuff to work whether or not their is a leader it requires the different members to keep up with the news and what territory battles to focus their efforts on..but again w/o specifics of how things will work this is something that will have to be figured out once v2 actually starts (not having them in place, we can have them in place), but how important they actually are.

As for the leader, basically I consider that a forum moderator, not necessarily the lead on strategic planning. They could be the same or they could be a different person.

I think the moderators should be kept different from the leaders if we're going to change leaders every so often. It'd be a nightmare for OS and Seibs to have to change moderators every 3 months or so.

However, I have a idea. We should be selecting a forum leader, then the leader can select their diplomats and can basically make a cabinet of advisors.

The leadership and ambassador positions should be completely separate from mod powers. One does not equal the other. And I agree with Sprockitz, the leader position should require the player to be highly active - obviously it would not be the only consideration, but it definitely should be one. Ambassador positions, on the other hand, can be open to everyone, no matter amount of activity or time within the game, to help encourage people to take more active roles within their faction - and hopefully, one day, to be one of the ones considered for the leader position.

This gives factions both something to reward/encourage player activity, and a position for everyone to aspire to.

Well I think keeping moderators the same makes sense, and only changing as necessary...people have lives (okay most people do) so we know from experience already that they won't be permanent, but the mods should be more of a lifetime thing (i.e. til OS/Ryan kick them off or until they resign).

And perhaps initially it'll be easiest to have them as the 'leader' to help setup a new goverment, whatever they chose to have that structure be would be up to each individual faction. And like the UN, the government would have to accomandate to fill those positions for ample representation

Honestly though, my main concern is the apointment of leaders and diplomats turning into a popularity contest, and less on people qualified.

Absolute Zero wrote:Honestly though, my main concern is the apointment of leaders and diplomats turning into a popularity contest, and less on people qualified.

I think that would be up to the individual factions. If a faction is foolish enough to choose leaders based solely on popularity then the faction will suffer and they'll be forced to re-evaluate how they made their choice, and hopefully choose better next time.

sumowrestler wrote:It went to discussion because we have no real structure for the nominations, Burn. Apparently this is an idea that really isn't hammered out within the Leaders Forum.

And why does it need to be hammered out within the Leaders Forum?

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't those "Leaders Forum" only open to the leaders of the SUB-factions?

Given that this is something that encompasses ALL it's probably best discussed in GD where everyone can have a say.

Absolute Zero wrote:Honestly though, my main concern is the apointment of leaders and diplomats turning into a popularity contest, and less on people qualified.

Aren't most government elections like that though?

I get what you're saying but we just have to have faith in the candidates and those voting for them.

And in a worst case scenario i'm sure the big Mods and Admins can step in and remove a person if they're not doing the job appropriately.

I like the idea that the cons and preds decide who the leaders are by the challenge pits. Very fluffy. Though eventually that would end up with mostly the same people... though again fluffy.

So first we need a Constitution to describe each positions rights, checks and balanaces .....

MODS
Anyways, I think there should be a mod for each faction that is pretty much just a normal forum mod like in HMWGD. You could even use Caelus,AS and whomever else to fill that roll. They would be totally seperate from the faction except for one thing, The actual elected faction official could request changes to the forums and other higher Mod funtions from the Mod. The Mod could then ok and deny it.

Hmmmmm another idea is that the diplomat carries out those duties of communicating with the mods on requests from the faction.


FACTION COMMANDERS
The commander I believe should be someone who has reached a certain post count and, if OS could implement it, a certain mission/arena/pit/whatever count to get nominated. Then each faction could have a voting poll to determine its commander rotated on a 3 month or so basis. This leader could then build his council and be a strategic leader. If he isn't doing his job and the faction decides not to have that player as commander a poll could be opened to Impeach the leader and a new Election held. It's democratic and anyone who qualifies can be nominated and the faction could decide.

DIPLOMATS
Could be elected the same as the commanders but without the game credentials but still with a certain post count. They are then the Ambassador between both the opposing factions along with the mods if it is chosen to be that way. He could be voted in and out just like a leader and could be rotated on a time schedule like a leader also.

This could be implemented with already existing methods, except a mission/arena/pit/whatever count which I'm sure could be very easily scripted. It would give a democratic solution, seperate mods from the command structure.

And the mods could be part of the 5th omnisupport faction that OS, Caelus, AS and the other mods are going to be using.

Just what I was thinking ....

Easy solution, OS and the mods build a test/application form. Those who want to be a leader or diplomat fill out the form. Then the OS and the mods review the forms, look at the players records, and choose the best canadite available.

Mogwai Prime wrote:MODS
Anyways, I think there should be a mod for each faction that is pretty much just a normal forum mod like in HMWGD. You could even use Caelus,AS and whomever else to fill that roll. They would be totally seperate from the faction except for one thing, The actual elected faction official could request changes to the forums and other higher Mod funtions from the Mod. The Mod could then ok and deny it.

The leader would have limited mod power. the big dogs would still come when needed

Mogwai Prime wrote:
FACTION COMMANDERS
The commander I believe should be someone who has reached a certain post count and, if OS could implement it, a certain mission/arena/pit/whatever count to get nominated. Then each faction could have a voting poll to determine its commander rotated on a 3 month or so basis. This leader could then build his council and be a strategic leader. If he isn't doing his job and the faction decides not to have that player as commander a poll could be opened to Impeach the leader and a new Election held. It's democratic and anyone who qualifies can be nominated and the faction could decide.

DIPLOMATS
Could be elected the same as the commanders but without the game credentials but still with a certain post count. They are then the Ambassador between both the opposing factions along with the mods if it is chosen to be that way. He could be voted in and out just like a leader and could be rotated on a time schedule like a leader also.

The idea was to get everyone involved, regardless of post count or player skill.

Absolute Zero wrote:Easy solution, OS and the mods build a test/application form. Those who want to be a leader or diplomat fill out the form. Then the OS and the mods review the forms, look at the players records, and choose the best canadite available.

So a faction would have to suffer should OS and the mods make a mistake in their selection? At least if those positions are elected, the faction has no one to point the finger at but themselves. Easiest just to separate them from Mod functions and make it not an issue.