The Energon Pub

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm thinking more of the logic that the last perfect sphere tf we got was Primus in the supreme class, who got the benefit of being designed knowing that the planet pieces had to go somewhere, unlike the original unicron designs which just cheated from the get go. Armada unicron wasn't a full planet, cheated with those two shell pieces which was only accurate to the Armada cartoon itself. Just as you say I'm decrying the work of the titan class, I think you're decrying the work of these designers who made this unicron an unrivaled toy, something he should be, not to be outdone by the next years titan class.

Exactly. A perfect sphere figure does already exist, in Primus (back in 2006). So it isn't anything new or unprecedented.

It's not really 'unrivalled' either, when everything was shoved onto his back. I personally thought we were passed this, in 2019:



Especially since, (bearing in mind these are both cheaper and made to a Higher Spec) these exist:



MP-36: Zero kibble



MP-43: kibble effectively incorporated into the overall design

I have no doubt a future Unicron will lean more towards either MP Dinobot or the Megatrons and actively conceal the kibble for a better overall aesthetic.

ZeroWolf wrote:I really don't get why you continue to rag on it, AllNew, I know you dislike the preordering system here but it makes perfect business sense and I think your fears are unfounded, especially since star wars toys are still doing fine after the barge. I think you're being a wee bit paranoid

Since when would it make sense for a Mega Corporation to need crowd funding? Would you be supportive if Microsoft did the same for Windows 12? or Sony with the Playstation 6??

Star Wars, again, is a different beast. The brand is larger, the fanbase equally so. The merchandise already exists at many price ranges. Casual fans (who are always the majority of every fanbase) wouldn't care if the Sail Barge existed as a playset or not.

Transformers is the bots themselves. My concerns are in light of the already rising prices HasTak have been forcing upon this line, lately. MP-44 and HasLab Unicron are just the latest two extremes, but everything else is equally rising. The fact that some so rabidly buy into them still, would give Hasbro no incentive to not keep raising those price tags, regardless.

Note, This is not the same with every toy maker. The rest of them, even the other collector specific ones, such as Storm Collectibles, only rise in value on the secondary market.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

DMSL wrote:I am not going to back this, it is too expensive. The transformation is basic, for this price there should not be all that kibble hanging from the botmode. Let your wallet speak and don't back it.

Unfortunately some people do have more money than sense. This crowdfunding, if successful, paves the way for exclusive figures-on-demand, which is a dangerous road to go down. Some still don't see it...

Takara Tomy had been using this model for years on the Takara Tomy Mall with their exclusives. They didn't have minimums like a crowdfund, but they did have a limited window that they would take orders and then put them into production for release nearly a year later. It's a popular model in Japan that a lot of companies use. Good Smile Company does it twice a year for their Wonder Festival exclusives, first they produce a limited run for sale at the event and then take a limited time online pre-order for a second batch six months later. None go into their store or made again later just like Takara Tomy Mall, the online orders are entirely on demand.

Personally I think it's a great system, it ensures that everyone that orders will get the figure, no fear of something selling out or not being sold in certain stores. Your order guarantees you're getting an exclusive that may have been under supplied if the company simply guesses how many they need. Now, granted, TTM hasn't sold a $600 figure using this method, but that's not really the point. They only stopped because of brand unification and shared exclusives with Hasbro, the model worked. Thinking about it they might actually still be doing a version of this since even the Pulse TTM releases have a short window to order during.

Let's face it, Hasbro has had one success in Jaba's Barge and one failure in Cookie Monster which sends a message to them that they can't just make anything they want and think there's an audience willing to pay for it. And really, if Unicron does succeed then what? Who else can they make that would be a fitting follow up? Primus? That would be an even harder sell than Unicron since Cybertron didn't transform in the cartoon eliminating the all important nostalgia factor. There's no reason to worry about any kind of floodgates opening just because one giant character's giant figure sold well.

Also, who says they wont make a Titan Unicron regardless? Their Titan options are dwindling fast. After Scorponok they really only have obscure repaints left (I wouldn't hold my breath for Grandus), they're going to need some new characters to keep the line running. Who better than Unicron and Primus to celebrate the 40th anniversary?

Emerje

Too big? Too expensive? Would be better if done smaller and cheaper?

Then go buy one of the many Armada versions that are out there.

Simple.

Stargrave wrote:They already made a smaller Unicron if you want one.

Gotta be honest: this is why I'm not a backer. This is definitely a marvel of engineering, and a beautiful looking figure, but there's a smaller, less expensive Unicron out there if I want one.

Glarryg

It's only a few inches bigger than a titan, so making it titan class would be kinda pointless.

I'll have a look at backing this week (as long as payments secure) tho I didn't pick up the Unicron with better paint job or even the green minion version due to its price of around £150 with the orig armada toy being £50 if that. I doubt they will be making another version of him or anything that rivals the haslab one until the 50th anniversary so to me it's not a purchase that's going to be outdated any time soon.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm thinking more of the logic that the last perfect sphere tf we got was Primus in the supreme class, who got the benefit of being designed knowing that the planet pieces had to go somewhere, unlike the original unicron designs which just cheated from the get go. Armada unicron wasn't a full planet, cheated with those two shell pieces which was only accurate to the Armada cartoon itself. Just as you say I'm decrying the work of the titan class, I think you're decrying the work of these designers who made this unicron an unrivaled toy, something he should be, not to be outdone by the next years titan class.

Exactly. A perfect sphere figure does already exist, in Primus (back in 2006). So it isn't anything new or unprecedented.

What Primus are you looking at? It's a perfect ball, sure, but only because his bot mode has massive chunks of planet on his legs and back instead of trying to tuck them out of sight. Is that what you would prefer from HasLab Unicron? A much better example is Crossover Death Star Darth Vader from a year later, but even his panels weren't nearly as well tucks away as Unicrons are.

It's not really 'unrivalled' either, when everything was shoved onto his back. I personally thought we were passed this, in 2019:

You really have a gift for exaggerating things, you know that. You really think that's comparable to this?



I'd really like to know where you think those panels could be realistically tucked away to without compromising the structure of his torso and legs and moving parts in the process? The figure weighs 19 pounds, you can't use tiny joints that might be bearing the weight of, say, his arms during the transformation without risk of them breaking just to make it easier to open hi torso and stuff things inside. You can see in early sketches that they tried to tuck the panels away, it was something they wanted to do, it obviously couldn't be done or they would have done it.

Especially since, (bearing in mind these are both cheaper and made to a Higher Spec) these exist:



MP-36: Zero kibble



MP-43: kibble effectively incorporated into the overall design

Remind me which one of those turns into a sphere again? G1 Megatron can be without kibble because he can incorporate a bunch of parts into his bot mode and turn other ones inside out.

And Beast Megatron, you must be joking. He doesn't have any kibble because he doesn't have any kibble to conceal! He's a robot made of dino parts! It's only slightly more compact than the original figure from '96 and the transformation isn't much more complex. Definitely not as complex as Unicron, I didn't even use the instructions.

Since when would it make sense for a Mega Corporation to need crowd funding? Would you be supportive if Microsoft did the same for Windows 12? or Sony with the Playstation 6??

Bad examples. Windows is moving towards a subscription model in the future, since 10 they've considered it a "service". As an OS platform one of its jobs is to really sell computers and compatible software. It isn't the type of thing you would crowdfund.

And consoles are loss leaders, they aren't designed to make a profit on their own, they're made to sell games (which get crowdfunded all the time). That's why console crowdfunds fail every single time.

Star Wars, again, is a different beast. The brand is larger, the fanbase equally so. The merchandise already exists at many price ranges. Casual fans (who are always the majority of every fanbase) wouldn't care if the Sail Barge existed as a playset or not.

That sound more like an argument for the Barge to NOT be crowdfunded. If the fan base is so much larger then they don't need something like that to sell. Just look at the toy aisles around Christmas, there are always these massive expensive Star Wars toys at Walmart and Target, but neither place will sell Titans in their stores. Heck, in perspective the Barge wasn't that much more than some of the massive Black Series vehicles found at retail, but you can't say the same about Unicron, that's why it needed a crowdfund, to ensure they could actually make a profit on it. If 8,000 fans aren't going to buy it then there's no hope for it at retail. The Barge probably would have sold at retail just fine.

Emerje

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The high price and short notice are exactly why I opted to go with the more feasible route of preordering Unicron from TFSource and saving up the money over the steady course of a year and a half.

Seems like people are constantly forgetting that this is an option.

It's especially good since TFSource, unlike other options, has no down payment for their preorder.

"$150 NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT IS REQUIRED. If the project is not fully funded and the product is cancelled, the deposit will be refunded."

?

That definitely was not there when I placed my preorder. And looking over my bank account's transaction history, there is no Paypal charge from TFSource, so I did not get charged for Unicron.

But, if Unicron gets made and TFSource suddenly charges me $150 on or around August 31, then so be it. I can definitely swing $150. More easily than I can do $600. The rest of the cost still won't come until after I have time to save it all up, AND TFSource does free shipping for this item as well, so it's all good.

Regarding the idea of making Unicron a Titan, sure they could have, but it still would have had to be crowdfunded anyway, since even though it would have been only a few inches shorter, the thing would have still be a giant ball on a stick that no mass retailer would ever stock in brick-and-mortar stores because it's just a giant ball on a stick!

Sabrblade wrote:The high price and short notice are exactly why I opted to go with the more feasible route of preordering Unicron from TFSource and saving up the money over the steady course of a year and a half.

Exactly what I did, it's just a better option for those who cannot afford to buy it outright in 6 days.

Burn wrote:Reducing his size to that of a Titan would be pointless.

He's not a Titan.

He's Unicron.

He's a class unto himself.

Titans are the biggest of Transformers.

This guy is a GOD.

Also this. This is why Unicron should not be shrunk.

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The high price and short notice are exactly why I opted to go with the more feasible route of preordering Unicron from TFSource and saving up the money over the steady course of a year and a half.

Seems like people are constantly forgetting that this is an option.

It's especially good since TFSource, unlike other options, has no down payment for their preorder.

"$150 NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT IS REQUIRED. If the project is not fully funded and the product is cancelled, the deposit will be refunded."

?

That's new, that was not there when I pre-ordered.

DMSL wrote:I am not going to back this, it is too expensive. The transformation is basic, for this price there should not be all that kibble hanging from the botmode. Let your wallet speak and don't back it.

Well, this is the first time i've heard someone complaint he's too simple and not too complex. weird.

I'm tempted to buy into Unicron, but that much money is earmarked for a M35A2 army truck, which I can use to move things bigger than my minivan can handle, and make the other guys at the office jealous

Sabrblade wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The high price and short notice are exactly why I opted to go with the more feasible route of preordering Unicron from TFSource and saving up the money over the steady course of a year and a half.

Seems like people are constantly forgetting that this is an option.

It's especially good since TFSource, unlike other options, has no down payment for their preorder.

"$150 NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT IS REQUIRED. If the project is not fully funded and the product is cancelled, the deposit will be refunded."

?

That definitely was not there when I placed my preorder. And looking over my bank account's transaction history, there is no Paypal charge from TFSource, so I did not get charged for Unicron.

But, if Unicron gets made and TFSource suddenly charges me $150 on or around August 31, then so be it. I can definitely swing $150. More easily than I can do $600. The rest of the cost still won't come until after I have time to save it all up, AND TFSource does free shipping for this item as well, so it's all good.

I think someone up-thread said TFsource changed the policy mid-stream - my bad, wasn't trying to heckle you!

But yes, it's definitely still a good option, especially if they continue to not charge tax (which BBTS does now).

Emerje wrote:There's no reason to worry about any kind of floodgates opening just because one giant character's giant figure sold well.

Preach! This is probably the best explanation of our position that I've come across.

Dragologer wrote:Re: Haslab Unicron At 3000 Backers, Needs Our Help to get the Final 5000 (2035682)
Posted by Wireless_Phantom on August 25th, 2019 @ 12:18am CDT
Again, would if I could, but it's beyond me. I'm a highschooler only barely managing to budget in my collection. I won't be able to get together the money in time, and with my current situation saving up for over a year isn't a good alternative either.


Dragologer- Um...I'm a highschooler. I got the money together. all depends on your priorities.

And my priorities lie with the Seacons and with Siege. Unicron is awesome, that is undeniable, but to me he's always more of an event than a character. It would be awesome to have, but there are other things that I'd rather have instead.

Burn wrote:Too big? Too expensive? Would be better if done smaller and cheaper?

Then go buy one of the many Armada versions that are out there.

Simple.

It's pretty much a no-win situation for those of us who want a Unicron that isn't enormous, considering the only alternative at the moment is outdated and inaccurate.

Inaccurate depends on the depiction of him you want to be accurate to as Armada unicron is accurate to his depiction in that series.

Come on people! Just put it on your charge card and pay it off at your convenience!

As much as I would like to I can't support this due to the ass raping price on the toy (I got my bonus from work right when they started and had more than enough to join the kickstarter but I didn't because my non impulse brain functions prevailed). I hope it doesn't get made and then maybe then they will re-consider trying it at a lower price point. If it were around $300 then I could see more jumping onboard but for over $600 (after shipping), I am not rich and have bills as do most of us so I chose to be responsible and take care of my family.
And no I am not a slave to the credit card companies, I know better.

Burn wrote:Too big? Too expensive? Would be better if done smaller and cheaper?

Then go buy one of the many Armada versions that are out there.

Simple.

Already got them!

I'm glad I'm seeing some of the stuff I've been saying echoed finally. A smaller Unicron would be a lot better, you'd get more people who can afford him, actually have room for him, etc. Who cares about scale because Unicron can't scale with anything unless you package him with stuff smaller than mini-cons. I get some people want a giant centerpiece like this, I think that's cool too, but practically speaking it just seems like they could sell more at a smaller price. I'd like the giant centerpiece, but it's not that important to me.

And no, compromises would not have to be made at a smaller size except maybe some very minor detailing. But look at Supreme class Primus, inches smaller than the Titans and has tons of detail. If Unicron could scale with anything, it would be that Primus anyways! The only thing you're sacrificing is perhaps some sturdiness to the parts.

And yes, showing examples of better designs with regard to kibble like MP Megatron are valid. There are many designs that people cry "you can't do it without kibble" until it actually happens. Just look at the dozens of takes on Movie figures like Prime and Megatron and how much they've improved, or even Masterpiece figures with multiple versions. A better Unicron transformation scheme exists yet to be designed, this toy is not bumping up against some law of physics that prevents more clever engineering. Shellformer or not, it's ok to ask for a better design.

A smaller Unicron already exists! In multiple release variants.

If a smaller Unicron is all that people want, then there is no point for them to even make a new one at all.

YRQRM0 wrote:And no, compromises would not have to be made at a smaller size except maybe some very minor detailing. But look at Supreme class Primus, inches smaller than the Titans and has tons of detail. If Unicron could scale with anything, it would be that Primus anyways! The only thing you're sacrificing is perhaps some sturdiness to the parts.

This paragraph is entirely wrong. Primus is only half the height of the Titan figures, and we already have a Unicron that scales with him in Armada Unicron.

And I truly still believe that size is just too small. We have had 2 titan combiners and 3 titan cities, and Omega. They are the 2nd largest Transformers ever, other than the planetformers.

Unicron should be this size. If you want a smaller Unicron, it exists. If you want one that scales with Primus, it exists. If you want a less complex one, it exists. If you want a cheaper one, it exists. there is absolutely no need for people to be rooting for this not to happen.

And if anything, the number of cancelled Unicron toys and also how deep of clearance the special Unicron of Light went for show that this type of platform is needed. the largest TF ever should not be a loss.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:and also how deep of clearance the special Unicron of Light went for

It's on clearance somewhere? Where? And for how much? I've been wanting to get one, but its pricey price has kept me at bay.

Sabrblade wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:and also how deep of clearance the special Unicron of Light went for

It's on clearance somewhere? Where? And for how much? I've been wanting to get one, but its pricey price has kept me at bay.

I bought Unicron of Light on Amazon Japan for $85 shipped back in March. He was cheaper than TLK Cybertron, who I had got for $100

It seems like we're entering a circular argument here, Emerje already posted a very good rebuttal of arguments involving mp 36. This is the best unicron we're going to get for the time being. Saying don't back this because they'll bring the price down or they'll make a smaller one is a fools errand. If you don't want it, that's completely fine, just don't run rough shod over the fact that some people do want it. There will be no down side to this succeeding, Hasbro won't suddenly rush to make this their only way of making figures

ZeroWolf wrote:It seems like we're entering a circular argument here, Emerje already posted a very good rebuttal of arguments involving mp 36. This is the best unicron we're going to get for the time being. Saying don't back this because they'll bring the price down or they'll make a smaller one is a fools errand. If you don't want it, that's completely fine, just don't run rough shod over the fact that some people do want it. There will be no down side to this succeeding, Hasbro won't suddenly rush to make this their only way of making figures

And nor will Hasbro suddenly rush to make even more super expensive HasLab premium Transformers toys. Jabba's Sail Barge didn't open the floodgates for even more super expensive HasLab premium Star Wars toys.

If, by chance, we are to ever get another super expensive HasLab premium Transformers toy, whether this Unicron is made or not, I wouldn't expect such a toy to come about until, say, another ten years at the minimum.

joevill wrote:Come on people! Just put it on your charge card and pay it off at your convenience!

Yes, because interest charges are just a joke. This is terrible advice. Never charge something you can't payoff by the next billing date.