The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:I thought it was the other way around with TT owning Transformers and Hasbro licensing from them?

Or I could be thinking of the original G1 stuff. The agreement has probably changed over the years.

Transformers was originally made up of license figures, but not all from TT, Jetfire is a good example of this. If TakaraTomy had authority over Hasbro, so would Bandai and all of those other companies they licensed toys from.

Another example with Alternators Prime, TT wanted it to be a truck that was more well known in Japan, but Hasbro wanted a Doge ram. Who got to decide? Hasbro I suppose since the toy we have now is the Doge ram.

TakaraTomy’s toys, Hasbro’s story.

Now of course this is all just my own assumptions, but its what I think sounds like it.

Counterpunch wrote:

First Gen wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Do you know what's important to me, TF purchase related?

The Linkage Mini-Cons.

The WHAT? They're a set of Mini-Cons exclusive to Japanese Armada DVDs. If I had known better, I could have gotten them dirt cheap back in the day. I didn't know better. Now I have to pay far, far out the ass to get them.

Are these the Minicons you speak of? http://members.fortunecity.com/msipher/transform/linkage/linkage.html

Yea...those little bastards.

Now I want them too!!!

Those min-cons my friend has the complete set their pretty cool and they have a neat back story. How much are they going for these days.

Nekoman wrote:Second, it would mean they lied and would lose the trust of many fans like I myself.

It wouldn't mean they lied. It would mean they changed their mind.
Just like they did when they stopped making Classics, then decided to make new Classics and put them in the Universe line.

They said Botcon would be the only chance to complete the Classics' seekers.
Henkei is not Classics.
Takara are not Hasbro.

If any seekers were released, they would have different paint apps, chrome etc.

As for losing trust, this happens routinely elsewhere (a statue the manufacturer said was limited to 1000 was later released in International packaging adding another 1000, and then repainted at Comicon adding another 1000) and no one lost trust in the company because, be it paint or packaging, they are all different.

Similarly, that company released 5 different ltd Final Fantasy statues they claimed would never be released at regular retail.

Several years later, they did decide to release the statues at retail, and no one whined because they accepted that companies, like people, CAN change their mind, and the ltd still came with a numbered card that the retail version did not.

I myself paid several hundred for the ltd statues, and I neither feel disrepsected by the company for changing their mind, nor that I overpaid as I have the ltd exclusive stuff.

That IS what I paid for, just as the Botcon set IS what the people who paid for it got.
If they're going to feel betrayed, disrespected or distrustful if a company that is NOT HASBRO releases a variant figure, they should stick to buying non limited stuff or get ready for a lot of angst.

2 quick points of intrest, as I've been mulling them all day.

Why no real upset over the Walmart exclusive MP StarScream seeing a Takara release with a ever so slightly change in paint aps.

A couple people told me it was because that was mass retail, but I kid you not, those did not land in NJ!

Also, if Takara released say the Huffer Springer pair or even the BlackArachnia Arcee redeco from years back, would anti-Takara Seeker people care so much?

I know its a super rare collectable limited to only this time cause of a promise from a company that we've all learned not to trust but I payed so much for it and it should only be that cause they said so.

But in my eyes, a exclusive is an exclusive no matter how you crack it. Blame it on poor distribution or whatever, but the Best Buy figs are resurfacing. So ok, maybe Best Buy dropped the ball on distribution and now its overstocked and Shop Hasbro is gonna blast them out...

Doesn't that just tarnish the initial release of that exclusive, hell I'd repect the figures more if I saw them on clearance at the store, but whats that, Hasbro sees the potential releasing rare figures at top dollar no matter what the source?

Yet no one complains. Maybe cause it was part of a wider release or something that people cared alot less about...

They learned something in 2007, dawn of a new day people!

It still doesn't change the fact that this should be an exclusive and now its not.

Should Takara release BotConish Seekers, which I doubt they'll do, it'll be just another series of exclusives made public.

As to everone saying "well if it happens we cant trust Hasbro anymore" what are you stupid, you trusted them to begin with!?!

And to everone else saying theres no point in goint to BotCon if you can just get the figs wherever, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

I was gonna take some vacation time in 09 to be sure I could attend my fist one. But if it's usualy just about some lame repaints, I'm going to either Key West or Vegas and looking into women as apose to going to a gathering of middle aged bearded guys who are wondering if they should stay true and pack a Bobba Fett mask or be a comformist and bring their Optimus Prime Voice Changer?

Reading it back, Key West!!!

Nekoman wrote:

Burn wrote:I thought it was the other way around with TT owning Transformers and Hasbro licensing from them?

Or I could be thinking of the original G1 stuff. The agreement has probably changed over the years.

Transformers was originally made up of license figures, but not all from TT, Jetfire is a good example of this. If TakaraTomy had authority over Hasbro, so would Bandai and all of those other companies they licensed toys from.

Another example with Alternators Prime, TT wanted it to be a truck that was more well known in Japan, but Hasbro wanted a Doge ram. Who got to decide? Hasbro I suppose since the toy we have now is the Doge ram.

TakaraTomy’s toys, Hasbro’s story.

Now of course this is all just my own assumptions, but its what I think sounds like it.

Actually, Bandai bought the Jetfire Mold from another company. The whole Macross Valkyrie thing is a big mess. Takara bought the mold from Bandai, who actually bought/licensed from someone else. Takatou or something like that. They had done Orguss as well.

As for TF's, most of the toys are from different lines that Takara had owned, but the story was mostly done in the US. Hence why TF was released in the US first in '84, then japan in '85.

Lycantendencies wrote:

Nekoman wrote:Second, it would mean they lied and would lose the trust of many fans like I myself.

It wouldn't mean they lied. It would mean they changed their mind.
Just like they did when they stopped making Classics, then decided to make new Classics and put them in the Universe line.

They said Botcon would be the only chance to complete the Classics' seekers.
Henkei is not Classics.
Takara are not Hasbro.

If any seekers were released, they would have different paint apps, chrome etc.

As for losing trust, this happens routinely elsewhere (a statue the manufacturer said was limited to 1000 was later released in International packaging adding another 1000, and then repainted at Comicon adding another 1000) and no one lost trust in the company because, be it paint or packaging, they are all different.

Similarly, that company released 5 different ltd Final Fantasy statues they claimed would never be released at regular retail.

Several years later, they did decide to release the statues at retail, and no one whined because they accepted that companies, like people, CAN change their mind, and the ltd still came with a numbered card that the retail version did not.

I myself paid several hundred for the ltd statues, and I neither feel disrepsected by the company for changing their mind, nor that I overpaid as I have the ltd exclusive stuff.

That IS what I paid for, just as the Botcon set IS what the people who paid for it got.
If they're going to feel betrayed, disrespected or distrustful if a company that is NOT HASBRO releases a variant figure, they should stick to buying non limited stuff or get ready for a lot of angst.

In TF relation I give Alt/Binal Nemisis Prime, an exclusive several times over...

However an exclusive at a reasonable price rate, and I swear that is the clincher in the Seeker struggle.

Yeah, Alt Nemesis Prime really stayed as an exclusive.

I shelled out the extra for him then a few months later he's turning up in Hong Kong and even CaseFresh were able to import him and sell him at a non-exclusive price.

But that was Hasbro going back on their word, and I firmly believe that Hasbro won't do that with the BotCon Seekers as it's a slap in the face to Fun Publications and while Hasbro may be the bigger company, I doubt they'll do that to one of their licensees.

Bleh,

Ya know what?

I'm done with this discussion. (Seriously.)

Someone PM me when the seekers get released in Henkei.

tigertracks 24 wrote:

UltraPrimal wrote:I'd like it if they created more original Seekers. A 3-pack of Sunstorm, the green one, and that other one from that G1 episode would be cool. I'd also like to see more with cameo decos: arctic, forest, desest, urban, etc.

I think they should make homages to G2 characters from their CLASSICs coutnerparts, and/or Diaclone versions.

Just imagine CLassics Starscream in Hooligan's colors, Classics Jetfire in G2 SKYJACKS COLORS! WHoa

And how come we always see construction vehicles repainted Constructicon green/purple, but never in yellow, or orange purple?

Surely, there is a collector's market that would love to see this happen.

Seekers: Yeah, more "red shirts" is all I care about.
Constructicons:Well there was the RiD Build Team and their yellow "G2 Devastator" repaint. As well as the micromaster sixbuilder. And Cybertron Quickmix and the upcoming Universe Big Dump repaint.

Tekka wrote:

First Gen wrote:Praytell, what KO SW do you speak of?

Click on the Skywarp Collection link in my sig, you'll notice the giant purple monstrosity right away.

What is that dome-headed thing on the far right?

Tekka wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:I don't know, did that two pack ever make it to the UK at retail?

Yes. It was available at Woolworths in the UK for £15, and was fairly common.

I can tell you it never made it to Canada. No Target stores=no Target exclusives. Canadians may not have it as bad as the Brits, but we still have it bad. Even the stores that we do have, don't have their exclusives half the time. We get the new poopy WalMart deluxes, but not MP Starscream?! WTF?

Still I was able to get all of the Classics line, including Target exclusives and attending BotCon last year. And I got poopy minimum wage job. I think if you really want it, and are determined, you can too.

Hard Hacker wrote:

UltraPrimal wrote: The reason why all the Henkei figures are different from their Classics versions is not because they're better. I personally think most of the Henkei color schemes are inferior to the Classics.

Marry me.

OK...[slowly backs away]

The Botcon Seekers will never happen in the Henkei line. TakaraTomy and Hasbro have an agreement to not step on each other's toes. TakaraTomy has never once released a BotCon exclusive at retail. To do so would break some kind of agreement they have (not to mention the one with Master Collector). You'll most likely see Skywarp and Ramjet ... but no Thundercracker, Thrust and Dirge. To do that would be a major stab in the back to fans. For those of you hoping that TakaraTomy will break 15 years of tradition and that the convention exclusives will no longer be exclusives, I feel that you are wasting your time. A convention exclusive will always be a convention exclusive.

Burn wrote:Yeah, Alt Nemesis Prime really stayed as an exclusive.

I shelled out the extra for him then a few months later he's turning up in Hong Kong and even CaseFresh were able to import him and sell him at a non-exclusive price.

But that was Hasbro going back on their word, and I firmly believe that Hasbro won't do that with the BotCon Seekers as it's a slap in the face to Fun Publications and while Hasbro may be the bigger company, I doubt they'll do that to one of their licensees.

San Diego comic-con exclusives are an entirely different deal. They're not Transformers convention or Transformers club exclusives. I actually received my Hong Kong Nemesis Prime prior to San Diego comic-con that year. I payed a **** load of money for him. Just because it came out there first doesn't mean that it was available at a less expensive price. He goes for a lot of dough because of his limited availabilty.

I want to clarify what I meant above by "convention exclusives". I was referring to Botcon exclusives. The only exception to the rule was the very first Botcon exclusive ... G2 Breakdown. He was available at least at one other convention though I can't remember where. Perhaps the same with the 1995 exclusive Nightracer ... though I have a feeling that was only the case because they couldn't sell all of the exclusives at Botcon so Hasbro sold the extra stock that Botcon didn't need or couldn't sell elsewhere. Times are different than they were 14 or 15 years ago. Transformers is far larger than it was then.

One more thought on this topic ... for those of you who have dreams of Henkei Seekers ... I assure that Master Collector most likely has a deal with Hasbro and/or TakaraTomy that their exclusives will never be available at retail or at another convention. Legally, these figures will and can never be produced for retail. If you really want the Classics Seekers, your best bet is none other than eBay. I'm being a realist here, not a negative nancy. It is what it is, my friends.

Unfortunately, I LOVED last years set but because so many people complained, we're now getting an "alternate universe" set for BotCon 2008 which I could personally care less for. I'm assuming that the convention folks are trying to appease the majority of fans at this point by giving collector's something that they might want because it's a convention exclusive but not because it's going to finish a part of their collection.

I agree with a lot of you that it absolutely sucks that those figures were released as BotCon exclusives and not at retail but it happened. We can't change the past. Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge will remain as exclusives for the Classics/Henkei line. To not keep them as exclusives would have very far reaching ramifications that would not be good for the fandom or from a business perspective for companies like Hasbro, TakaraTomy and Master Collector.

One thing that has changed dramatically about myself as a Transformers collector since the creation of Seibertron.com back in 2000 is that I have a better appreciation for how this hobby is run from a business perspective. If you guys would think from a business perspective instead of a fan's perspective, you'll understand the decisions from Hasbro and/or TakaraTomy a lot better. It's all a matter of business. They're not trying to screw fans over. They're not trying to outdo each other. They're just trying to make money and be profitable and keep kids buying their products and if they can keep die-hard fans a part of this as well then the more the merrier. The sooner people can look at their decisions from a business perspective, the easier all of this will be for us ... like it or lump it.

I assure you ... if Hasbro had though they could sell more repaints of Classics Starscream and Ramjet to major retailers like Walmart, TRU and Target ... they would have done that. Something must have happened that made them say they'd release them as exclusives instead of at retail. I'm sure Walmart didn't want two more repaints of Starscream or two more repaints/remolds of Ramjet. 6 versions of essentially one mold over the course of one year? It's never been done before (minus the original Seekers) and I'm sure it will never be done again in the world of toys versus video games.

Mind you, when the BotCon 2007 exclusives were decided, Hasbro HAD NOT decided upon Classics 2.0 (aka Universe 2008). They decided, along with Master Collector, that it was best to release those figures as exclusives than never to release them at all.

It's just a business decision. Think of it from the perspective of the companies involved with selling Transformers toys. I know it sucks ... but you'll eventually understand why things are the way that they are if you consider it from THEIR perspective instead of YOURS.

Seibertron wrote:A convention exclusive will always be a convention exclusive.

You mean like Alternators Nemesis Prime at SDCC?

Burn wrote:

Seibertron wrote:A convention exclusive will always be a convention exclusive.

You mean like Alternators Nemesis Prime at SDCC?

Please reread my post above. I already answered this. I was referring to BotCon exclusives. There's a HUMONGOUS difference between general convention exlusives and BotCon exclusives, especially the licensed BotCon exclusives produced by Master Collector for BotCons 2005 through 2008.

Seibertron wrote:

Burn wrote:

Seibertron wrote:A convention exclusive will always be a convention exclusive.

You mean like Alternators Nemesis Prime at SDCC?

Please reread my post above. I already answered this.

Actually you posted that while I was posting mine so it's not like I was ignoring your post, I just didn't see it.

I realise there's a major difference between an general convention exclusive and a BotCon exclusive, i'm not someone new to the fandom who doesn't know his TF history.

Point is though Hasbro aren't really reliable when it comes to their word.

The only thing the BotCon Seekers have going for them is the licensing agreement between Hasbro and Fun Publications. That agreement we know exists and it's probably going to be one of the few times Hasbro's word can be taken seriously.

But I have to wonder just how far the agreement extends to TakaraTomy.

Don't get me wrong, I know there won't be a mass release by Hasbro and I don't rate the chances of them being released by TakaraTomy very highly simply because of the licensing agreement.

For all those who would love to see a general release of the BotCon Seekers (and believe me, I would, I really would), it's best we just face the fact that the chances of that happening are virtually nil. Accept it, move on, enjoy the rest Transformers has to offer.

GOD DAMNIT

Get a clue you mf's and realize this isn't about who said what about what figures.

What is "said" at a botcon is not written in stone.

"Hasbro" and "Takara" are no all knowing entities, they are made up of many people at different levels of information.

ANYTYING CAN HAPPEN

THIS IS TRANSFORMERS!!!!!

Grow a pair and just buy what you want instead of what will be exclusive and what won't. If it's more than you it's worth to you, don't buy it, and don't bitch on a board.

Christ. I hope there are henkei seekers just to fragment the fandom EVEN MORE!!!!!!!!!!

Issue 1: I remember when I found Shiny Best Buy Megatron. I thought to myself, "There's a great looking Megatron, better then the other two out there." I never said to myself, "Oh! This'll go up in value!" or "Oh! I have an exclusive that only a select amount of others would have."

I buy what I can find when the funds are available. I bought the Magnus Vs. Skywarp set at a steal on e-bay a year after it was released, because an opportunity arose AND I had the money, and I was grateful.

So if there's a Thundercracker deco coming out, and I can get it for a reasonable price, and I have to holler at a friend in Japan to send it to me, or import it from a dealer, then by God, I will get it if I can because I have interest in the character.

And if people are mad or upset that I can get my hands on something I'd like that some don't think should be released, then I'm gonna ask myself "Do I really care what people I don't know think?"

Honestly, if this is released, I'll consider myself a late-adopter. It's just like the PS3 last year. There were people with the money to go out and buy a high priced console. I did not, because I didn't have the money. So I wait. And wait, and watch as the early adopters pride or crow to themselves and others about getting something so exclusive. And when the console comes down, and the game library expands, and I feel I can spend the money on something I want, then I'll get it.

The same thing applies in this case. Now, please note that I think the other people here ARE NOT like some of the tech enthusiasts who bemoan how much they pay and crow about their exclusive. Though on rare occasions, I have seen people say "I got my second package, this should pay for my trip once it's on e-Bay" on the site. But mostly, we as fans are a pretty decent bunch.

I also visit Rebelscum.com, in order to see all the Star Wars news and figure information. And on their site, they have something that is called "Collect to Collect." Basically, it says let other fans have a shot at things, and buy only what you need. Don't buy what you want to sell later on for profit. That just makes you a scalper, and scalpers are assholes, with no redeeming qualities.

Besides, beyond Thundercracker, you got four other bots with the set. Plus any other exclusives you may have picked up.

I've probably infuriated a few people already so I'll quit there. But to those of you who are feeling sore about this, by no means need you demonize or swear curses when alternate opportunities arise for others. Because if that's the case, then maybe you should step back and ask what kinda fan, collector, and person you are. You paid money for what you wanted, and you had no clue what the future foretold. You bought what was an excellent opportunity at the time. That's great for you. I would have done it if I could too. Things happen though. Which leads into Issue 2.

Issue 2: I have a feeling that if Takara releases it, they aren't gonna care that people in the US are mad because it's no longer an exclusive. Like some of the above said, they're doing it to keep kids interested in the product and to make money. Now, who knows if they actually have an exclusivity agreement. From the best of my knowledge, I thought Takara and Hasbro basically said "You make'em there, we'll make'em here, and we'll share molds and stuff."

And I highly doubt they're doing it just to screw you out of money. There are plenty of people over here who wouldn't mind some of the Wonder Festival exclusives. I'll proudly admit I wouldn't mind that Arcee in G1 collars from the Movie set.

It makes you wonder, that when they released 20th Anniversary Prime over here, that the Japanese MP-01 owners were this bent outta shape.

That's all I'll say.

Sorry for the super post.

Gasper wrote:Issue 2: I have a feeling that if Takara releases it, they aren't gonna care that people in the US are mad because it's no longer an exclusive. Like some of the above said, they're doing it to keep kids interested in the product and to make money. Now, who knows if they actually have an exclusivity agreement. From the best of my knowledge, I thought Takara and Hasbro basically said "You make'em there, we'll make'em here, and we'll share molds and stuff."

That's regarding regular releases, not convention exclusives that people paid a lot of money for. Again, I'm trying to help you guys be realistic. If it was a BotCon or a TakaraTomy convention exclusive, it won't be released here in the US afterward. That's how it works. That's what makes it an "exclusive".

Gasper wrote:And I highly doubt they're doing it just to screw you out of money. There are plenty of people over here who wouldn't mind some of the Wonder Festival exclusives. I'll proudly admit I wouldn't mind that Arcee in G1 collars from the Movie set.

Not gonna happen most likely. But that's where things are a little different. TakaraTomy exclusives are not the same as BotCon convention exclusives. WonderFest exclusives are on the same scale as San Diego Comic Con exlusives. They're totally different than BotCon exclusives.

Gasper wrote:It makes you wonder, that when they released 20th Anniversary Prime over here, that the Japanese MP-01 owners were this bent outta shape.

That's all I'll say.

Sorry for the super post.

That's 100% different. That was a regular retail release. That wasn't an exclusive anywhere. It was always supposed to be available in both the US and Japan. I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. I understand what the rules are between these two companies. It's been the same for at least the past 5 years. It's not going to change. The rules haven't been broken under any circumstance yet. There won't be any Henkei Seekers that were released as BotCon exlusives. Plain and simple.

You know I just had a thought I could see TT releasing some Henkei Seekers but not in the same exact molds maybe they will be slightly a different size or something. Sure the chances of that are slim to none but if they were to ever do it that's the only way I Could see TT getting away with it.

UltraPrimal wrote:

Tekka wrote:

First Gen wrote:Praytell, what KO SW do you speak of?

Click on the Skywarp Collection link in my sig, you'll notice the giant purple monstrosity right away.

What is that dome-headed thing on the far right?

That is Soap Dish Skywarp. The only one I don't have a box for. I did find a box once but it was trashed so I skipped it.

Gasper wrote:The same thing applies in this case. Now, please note that I think the other people here ARE NOT like some of the tech enthusiasts who bemoan how much they pay and crow about their exclusive. Though on rare occasions, I have seen people say "I got my second package, this should pay for my trip once it's on e-Bay" on the site. But mostly, we as fans are a pretty decent bunch.

I also visit Rebelscum.com, in order to see all the Star Wars news and figure information. And on their site, they have something that is called "Collect to Collect." Basically, it says let other fans have a shot at things, and buy only what you need. Don't buy what you want to sell later on for profit. That just makes you a scalper, and scalpers are assholes, with no redeeming qualities.

But you must remember something here. Fun Pub makes this happen in a way, because only people who have ordered a Primus package can then order a second bagged set, basically encouraging either a MISB collector to buy two, or to buy a second set to be sold as the market demands to other collectors who were not able to purchase a set, or go to the convention.

Even if there are leftovers this is true. I know because I have wanted the 2005 set for awhile, and Fun Pub has been sitting on boxed and bagged sets, but the disclaimer is that to buy a bagged set, one must first buy the regular boxed set, even now, same with their Joe con exclusives. The fact that I do not really want the box doesn't matter to them, their rules matter, and being fair and sticking to what they have established matters to them.

I don't think any of us know for sure what will happen, but Seibertron brought up some good points.

This conversation could not be more frustrating. Tensions are running high and everyone is speculating without a shred of solid information.

Exclusives are exclusives and will remain so forever, unless Hasbro or Takara released the boxset as is in stores, it will remain exclusive. If Takara released the seekers separately they would NOT be an exclusive. Sure the value of the exclusive set would drop, but that's because many people (the mass that is pushing the "Games of Deception" demand higher) couldn't care less about the box and the tag and the certificate, in fact they really care about the three figures which if released in stores would each cost between $10 and $15.

But nonetheless, the exclusives would still remain exclusives and this so called contract agreement, if money is to be made by the company they will do it. So Thrust comes out and doesn't have yellow highlights on the chest. Would that prevent you from purchasing it? no, would it be an exclusive? no. Would many people care? Not if they are saving hundreds of dollars.

The speculation that these figures will NEVER come out in a Classics version line is ridiculous. I would agree with whomever mentioned that this is a business, though highly disagree about their analysis. If the bottom line is not met for this year's budget, you can bet that we will MOST DEFINITELY see the seekers coming out. I do analysis for Hasbro and can tell you that the company heads make decisions during the year. They market new molds and items they expect to sell well, but produce more of an existing mold with slightly adjusted colors to increase the exposure and improve the earnings potential of the stock. Meeting estimates is the main driving force of the company. Now Transformers is not, by far, their only line, and the people in the Transformers department are rather loyal to their product, unlike the license deal of Lucas Inc. However, the department does have an overseeing market driven forecasting group that can dictate a new box art for old lines if it is deemed, profit worthy.

As for the seekers coming out in Japan. I think it's a safe bet that you will see them. Probably not for a year or so, but they are ON THEIR WAY. Takara can sell in packages or in singles any product sold as an exclusive so long as the packaging is adjusted and not marketed as a once exclusive set. You see it in many industries and the toy industry is no different.

As for my personal sympathy to those that paid huge $$ for the products. I have none. As many people have said, it's your choice to shell the money out. Let's face it, paying $850 for a set of 5 toys that in stores would be worth $60 is a bit much. However if you are a serious collector with cash, all the more power to you. But if you shell out that money and then whine and cry in a year if Takara comes out with seekers similar to the classics line, well, that's your problem, not the company's and not for the thousands of fans that will purchase the cheaper and probably not that much worse of a product.

And don't get me started on the scalpers of this set...I mean you have the same sellers selling box sets on ebay. I can understand if one person sells their set for double what they paid, but when one guy sells set after set and then individually as well...

two words...
SCREW THEM!!!!!

I agree with you Seibretron, but to me, Henkei was in the works probaly longer than we knew. Japan must have liked the classics, considereing tons of japanese toy fandom websites have pictures of all of them.

But, consider contracts, we don't know the extent to which who said and what was said. However, since Botcon is the official convention for TF's sponsored by Hasbro, then yeah, you are right....then again, starnger things have happened.

Japan will want a complete set, well at least a Thundercracker anyway.

Maybe a limited two pack like they did for robotmasters, or a store exclusisve (in Japan).

But it's too early to tell anything, lets see how the rest is released, something is going to happen with the Henkei line other than just general G1 likeness repaints. That much we know for sure.

Maybe we might get the all black repaints...now that would make me even happier.