The Energon Pub

No sign of other PotP figures yet here in Oregon. I've seen the occasional deluxe on the shelves, but TLK remains supreme....

I have only been collecting Transformers since 2015 so I don't have much of a frame of reference.

I do remember collecting Dragon Ball Z figures and they were about 7.99 to 9.99. (We got mad when they started costing 9.99 lol) This was back in about 2001-2004 ish I think. I didn't get back into the action figure game till 2015 but I was suspicious when I saw how much marvel legends and WWE Elite figures are. I will say that technology has definitely improved and marvel legends and WWE figures are light years ahead of the DBZ figures.

I do own some Transformers from years past thanks to conventions and Ebay. The oldest I own is probably from TFA and I must say the quality is amazing. It feels like ABS plastic (Which is often used to make airsoft guns and even car dashboards) compare that to the toys from TFP and it feels like they used something else which feels a bit more thin. The toys from RiD15 are even thinner and more fragile and brittle.

I think that the reason for this isn't oil costs but the fact that the market has changed. We know TRU is going TU if they can't pay off their debt. We also know more kids play with videogames and tablets so less parents are buying. When the market is smaller, companies need to raise prices to get the same profits. So my theory is that with less overall buyers, hasbro needs to raise prices so that loyal customers will pitch in for the bill.

Of course what we don't know is the total operating costs. Sure oil prices are down from what they were in the mid to late 00's but what other things have gone up? Paint and metal are also used (Think molds) and labor. Also what is the rent like? Assuming a lot of this is done over seas its harder to gauge what the demands are like over there.

o.supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote:That means having all 3 seekers would mean a parent spends the equivalent of $100 for their kid. Thats a **** ton of money for parents trying to make ends meet with a mortgage and kids on just 3 airplanes that look the same. Whoever had 3 seekers growing up in the 80s is luckier then they could ever realize.

So once again, there is little to no point in this comparison.

True, I remember being the "poor" kid, though my grandparents did spoil a bit, being one of only two grandchildren. Unfortunately I had friends with parents who were generally more well-off than myself, so yeah, they got all the cool toys. Transformers were more expensive to be sure when compared with todays prices, but they were also made of much higher quality materials overall, especially they 1984-1986 lines. Definitely made of "sterner stuff" .

Well the first years before the movie were, yes. But while they had diecast, they had less paint apps than today, less parts, less articultion and there was 0 design and engineering cost from Hasbro since they were all toys that pre existed. Toys were also smaller back in G1.

So I think all in all, we are getting pretty good deals.

Also to answer other posts I see above, I too have seen deluxes go to $10 on sale but once again there is no point to speaking of sales when we were comparing to full prices. I bought TR Broadside for $2 a year ago at a thrift store, but I dont say voyagers are $2 toys, I instead say I got a nice toy for cheap.

Also, the poil prices people are quoting have nothing to do with the oil used to make these toys. Hasbro has told us time and time again that its the resin cost that matters, not oil costs. The oil prices are the ones used for fuel and for your car to drive. Resin however is a synthetic using a different type of oil (not fuel) and its the labour costs that go into making this resin which is the biggest factor. So not necessarily the fluctuation in the organic source.

Skritz wrote:

Emerje wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Yeah, it was 10 years ago. And we have it better than most. I remember Marvel legends being 10$ and now its nuts, especially for what you get. I remember their build a figure being Galactus and a Sentinel, not another 6 inch figure.

That's about as good an example as any of the difference between licensing your characters and making your own. Marvel Legends' higher prices and smaller BAFs are a direct result of the higher license fees that came with their exploding popularity. Meanwhile Transformers don't have a licensing fee (outside of the occasional car) so what they want to do is only limited by how much they want to charge us.

Emerje

Aren't Transformers costlier to design/build/assemble due to all the smaller pieces that move to allow for transformations, compared to a simpler action figure with only a few points of articulation?

Exactly. They have all that going against them and they're still far cheaper than the licensed products that all share the same relative articulation and in many cases even the same parts.

william-james88 wrote:Also, the poil prices people are quoting have nothing to do with the oil used to make these toys. Hasbro has told us time and time again that its the resin cost that matters, not oil costs. The oil prices are the ones used for fuel and for your car to drive. Resin however is a synthetic using a different type of oil (not fuel) and its the labour costs that go into making this resin which is the biggest factor. So not necessarily the fluctuation in the organic source.

The graph I gave was for crude oil, the raw stuff straight from the ground, not refined oil used for fuel. This is what's used to make plastic. The resin they're talking about is the plastic itself in its final form (when plastic is sorted for recycling the number inside the triangle is the "resin identification code"), but you can't get to that point without starting from crude oil so of course it's going to have a big impact on the production costs.

A couple quotes from Wikipedia:

Plastics are typically organic polymers of high molecular mass, but they often contain other substances. They are usually synthetic, most commonly derived from petrochemicals, but many are made from renewable materials such as polylactic acid from corn or cellulosics from cotton linters.

FYI: Polylactic acid (PLA) is a biodegradable plastic used most commonly in food packaging and medical procedures, and 3D printers, not something like toys you'd want to last a long time.

The two most common petrochemical classes are olefins (including ethylene and propylene) and aromatics (including benzene, toluene and xylene isomers). [...] Olefins are the basis for polymers and oligomers used in plastics, resins, fibers, elastomers, lubricants, and gels.[...] Olefins includes ethylene, propylene, and butadiene. Ethylene and propylene are important sources of industrial chemicals and plastics products. Butadiene is used in making synthetic rubber.

Another quote from this article regarding the effect of crude prices on products made from it:

When the cost of oil goes up, production costs are increased and profits reduced for industries that depend on oil. Producer costs — not consumer gasoline costs — are the reason high oil prices threaten to shrink industrial production of goods directly affected and also of energy-intensive products such as aluminum and paper.

So yeah, I don't know what Hasbro is talking about if they think crude oil prices don't effect the cost of the plastic they make their figures out of. Maybe the question was outside the scope of the person answering it or they're simply in denial or knowingly being misleading because they weren't exactly being upfront about the figures shrinking in 2012?

And I don't deny that there are labor and production costs in making the plastic, but those are stable expenses, those change gradually. You can't get that far without your biggest raw material which fluctuates all the time.

Emerje

Thanks Emerje, sorry I mistook the crude oil price you were showing for the fuel prices (what we see at gaz stations).

And just for reference, here is when Hasbro mentioned resin instead of crude oil when it comes to rising material costs:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... -up/34229/

william-james88 wrote:Thanks Emerje, sorry I mistook the crude oil price you were showing for the fuel prices (what we see at gaz stations).

And just for reference, here is when Hasbro mentioned resin instead of crude oil when it comes to rising material costs:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... -up/34229/

Well, there you go, that actually proves the point.

I enjoyed the financial slides. Interesting bit on 61 about slightly increasing resin costs expected for 2016.

Now look at what happened to crude prices between 2015 and 2016.



But you are right about the gas prices not being directly related as there's a number of additional factors that can cause those prices to fluctuate even further such as refinery fires, refinery winter maintenance, and tropical storms. Crude prices could stand still and any number of those issues could cause gas prices to fly up without effecting plastic.

Emerje

I admit lacking a frame of reference but honestly? A few nitpicks aside, having gotten back into collecting last year I find the quality/price ratio of retail line Transformers quite decent. There's some of the cheap hollow parts on figures (those are especially notable and common in forearms) which I find annoying and believe could be fixed without a massive budget increase but beyond that?

The only truly horrible thing, quality-wise, in retail Hasbro Transformers are the lazy stickers which peel even in the packaging. Those are my only major, obvious and raging complaint. Those are atrocious and I wish they used tampograph and/or paint a bit more because some figures turn into peeling mess.

While the United States was the first to see any Power of the Primes figures at retail, they seem to be spreading out to retail in various parts of the world, as evidenced by the recent finding of the line in Singapore and then in Canada. Now, we can add Malaysia to that list! Seibertronian Jasmon has sent us pictures of his haul, found at a ToysЯUs at Queensbay Mall in Bayan Lepas, Malaysia. Jasmon found the Dinobots Grimlock, Swoop and Slag Slug at the price of R149.90 and R89.90, respectively, which works out to US $36.75 and $22.04. He also sent us some in-hand pictures of the trio!








Still no Leader Rodimus Prime or Optimus Prime to be seen, though. If you find those figures, please shoot us an email at sightings@seibertron.com, and be sure to list your own sightings on our sightings page and in your local sightings forums to help out your fellow collectors. Happy hunting, everyone!

I think one major thing that lacks (IMO) in the TR Hot Rod figure is a real view of his spoiler wings when in robot mode due to his brawny shoulders. At least with the Classics figure you didn't have this problem and it doesn't seem to show on the POTP figure.

I hear ya, plus the coloration on PoTP Rodimus is better. I have the TR Hot Rod but I'll happily grab up the PoTP one too. I like most of the PoTP figures I've seen so far except for Windcharger and Starscream (why in Primus' name did they make him SO hideous?!). My Wal-Mart currently has the Legends class figures, but no sign of the Deluxes or Voyagers at Wal-Mart or the 2 Targets in my area.

PoP Skrapnel found at Spokane Target. Just one. So lonely.

ATTENTION!
Rodimus unicronus is found on Toysrus.Ca website
http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp ... =138351396

The other leaders are not found on that site or is it found on the american toysrus site

He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

Madeus Prime wrote:He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

Im more surprised by his matrix core being pitch black

GrandGalvatronG1 wrote:

Madeus Prime wrote:He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

Im more surprised by his matrix core being pitch black

Looks like it is black with two touches of purple and a translucent red core.

Madeus Prime wrote:

GrandGalvatronG1 wrote:

Madeus Prime wrote:He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

Im more surprised by his matrix core being pitch black

Looks like it is black with two touches of purple and a translucent red core.

ah i see the purple, looks less dumb than I thought,
amazing how he has both faction symbols it seems,

Madeus Prime wrote:He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

We don't know for sure. Back at NYCC he only had SG Autobot symbols.



I'm still hoping there's a sticker sheet included so we can choose a faction for ourselves. Personally I'd rather he only have SG symboles, not because of any love for SG (only one I've got is the SS Deluxe Starscream), but because it makes more sense to me that as an Autobot tainted by Unicron he wouldn't instantly side with the Decepticons. If he comes with a Unicron faction sticker then I might just go with that instead.

Emerje

Can't wait to get him!

John Warden denied his being SG Rodimus the Character at NYCC. His on-package bio states him to be the Heroic Autobot Hot Rod having been turned evil by Unicron's Matrix of Chaos, so he is an Evil Autobot but not of the otherworldy Shatteredverse kind. Rather, he's an Evil Autobot native to the normal Heroic Autobots/Evil Decepticons universe after having essentially been tainted by Robo-Satan.

And since Unicron is not actually a Decepticon himself, being an unaligned evil on his own, greater than the evil of the Decepticons, there really isn't any reason for Unicron to be obligated to change Hot Rod's insignia into being that of the lesser evil faction that Unicron is not a part of. So Unicron would simply just change Hot Rod's colors (while re-styling his flames for kicks, apparently) without needing to bother messing with Hot Rod's original faction insignia.

Now, of course, the packaging will still label Rodimus Unicronus as an Evil Decepticon for marketing purposes since that's what Hasbro does (even all of Unicron's toys since the Cybertron Deluxe get packaged as Evil Decepticons for the same reason despite Unicron being his own evil), but that's all just real-world marketing in the end.

Sabrblade wrote:John Warden denied his being SG Rodimus the Character at NYCC.

Sure. This just so happen to be an evil Rodimus. Who has Motormaster colors. And a purple Autobot logo . And a goatee. Sure. Totally unrelated to that SG Rodimus.

Picked up Slash and beachcomber today.

Beachcomber is mediocre, his stubby legs aren't so great, and being beachcomber knocks some points off also

Slash, however, is an absolute delight. While I personally prefer my fembots to be more feminine (more like fansprojects echara), she's quite great as a figure despite. I think it would have really helped if they could have found a way to attach the raptor arms to her thighs, but she's tons of fun.

Skritz wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:John Warden denied his being SG Rodimus the Character at NYCC.

Sure. This just so happen to be an evil Rodimus. Who has Motormaster colors. And a purple Autobot logo . And a goatee. Sure. Totally unrelated to that SG Rodimus.

We'll just call it an homage and call it a day

GrandGalvatronG1 wrote:ATTENTION!
Rodimus unicronus is found on Toysrus.Ca website
http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp ... =138351396

Yeah, we reported that one month ago: https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... nus/40020/

But he hasnt been in stock ever and wont be. Its just a premature/placeholder listing that will either be removed or wont be in stock until 2018 when wave 2 comes out.

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Skritz wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:John Warden denied his being SG Rodimus the Character at NYCC.

Sure. This just so happen to be an evil Rodimus. Who has Motormaster colors. And a purple Autobot logo . And a goatee. Sure. Totally unrelated to that SG Rodimus.

We'll just call it an homage and call it a day

Yeah, this is just another case like Energon Downshift being based on G1 Wheeljack (even being named "Wheeljack" in Super Link) without actually being G1 Wheeljack.

GrandGalvatronG1 wrote:

Madeus Prime wrote:

GrandGalvatronG1 wrote:

Madeus Prime wrote:He has both symbols...? Huh, well, I guess his armor is Decepticon made for his SG Autobot self.

Im more surprised by his matrix core being pitch black

Looks like it is black with two touches of purple and a translucent red core.

ah i see the purple, looks less dumb than I thought,
amazing how he has both faction symbols it seems,

I think it should just be a purple Autobot symbol, since SG Decepticons are red.