The Energon Pub

[Rtron]

If you really want to know if they’re shortchanging us with hot rod or not, you’d have to buy a Jazz, a Hot Rod, and a Scourge. Weight them. Then, disassemble them completely. Count how many pins, screws and rivets each one has. That will tell you the relative expense of the standard parts needed for each figure. Then lay all of their plastic parts out on a table, classified by colour, and separated form the nearest part by about 5 milimetres. Measure how much surface area each plastic color takes up. That will tell you how much surface area each figure takes up in a mold or molds. For them to really be screwing us over with Hot Rod, his standard metal parts count, mold surface area, and plastic weight should all be much closer to Jazz’s than to Scourge’s.

AND ALL OF THIS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING INTO THE PAINT APPS, which require the manufacturing of their own masks.

Edit for clarity:

I think a lot of people don’t grasp just HOW limiting parts count is. The amount of parts in a figure translates into a certain space taken up in the mold, which translates into more molds, and more complex ones. These molds are stupidly expensive, so Hasbro probably has a set number and size of molds they can make for a deluxe, a voyager, or a leader. So, when designing, there’s a VERY strict limit in the amount of parts a figure can have, which is also somewhat related to the size of said parts, as bigger parts will take up more space in the mold, which means you might have less space left for more parts.

Also, assembly: time spent assembling a toy is time not spent assembling another.

Also, shipping: Hasbro can’t just mess around with box sizes for ONE figure, as that will impact the costs of moving a certain amount of figures around the world.

[RodimusConvoy13]

If Hot Rod being $30 really angers you that much, don’t buy it. No one is forcing you. And no, Hasbro isn’t forcing you either. I had no issue paying $30. He looks fantastic. Has great articulation. And is just awesome. I don’t mind paying a slight up charge for a quality figure.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I finally got SS86 Hot Rod in hand and I vehemently disapprove of this figure having to be sold at voyager price. The extra parts aren't big enough to justify the voyager sized bubble and box. They could have been kept deluxe size and the accessories would have still fit. I understand the extra parts still would have bumped the price up, but not a whole $10. This could have been sold at $22 or $24. But then it would have to have been an exclusive, which would have been okay with me. We already have so many, 1 more wouldn't make a difference. Or it could have bumped another exclusive into general retail release. Either way, $30 is too much for this figure, even if it looks great.

Weird, because the figure definitely has more parts in his construction, no 'deluxe gaps' and all the extra accessories you don't care about that I could see where the money went. He's definitely NOT a deluxe class figure in terms of quality.

Which is why I said it would have been fine if he was $24. But that would have knocked it out of the retail price point of either a deluxe or a voyager. And retail stores wouldn't make extra room for that, even though they did for their own exclusives. That's why I said it would have to be an exclusive.

As for him being an exclusive as the "new" main character, that comparison would have been relevant in 1986, but not now.

Uh, no, it is relevant now. Because it makes him prominent, and a character's prominence still plays a big role in priority. Hasbro wants to get the more prominent characters widely released - exclusivity is for lower-tier characters, misfits, and special alternate versions.

And as far as price goes.. The main thing that makes him a Voyager, is not the extra parts. What makes him a Voyager is the engineering and extra meat on the robot body itself. He's as tall as Titans Return Hot Rod, which makes him taller than the average WFC Deluxe (which is a $20 figure, in case you forgot). And not only is he this tall, he is this tall while having neither cost-saving ball joints in his hips or shoulders, nor any of the major molding gaps seen on WFC Deluxes and Voyagers. That much extra mass (plus the engineering cost of making him be that way, since it requires casting limb and body segments in multiple pieces instead of a single part that saves on both plastic and room and the mold) alone pushes him past the WFC Deluxe price by more than a mere $2.
And that's not factoring in whatever just the guns would add to the price.

At that point, may as well throw in extra accessories with what's left of the budget to round out the price to a retail point.

[EvasionModeBumblebee]

Don't have much to contribute to the Hot Rod situation, but at the price 3rd party kits are going for I'm ok with bumping up the price point and including accessories. (Sentinel/Bumblebee/Blackout kit is up to $40 now on TFSource).

I'd totally be on board for a DOTM retool of SS-49 at the voyager price point with missile launchers/control pillar/unmasked head/ maybe stealth force parts?

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Forgot to mention: I'd rather pay Voyager price for SS86 Hot Rod (despite the chest thing, which still bugs me) in a store than pay it for TR Hot Rod (or Leader price for Classics Roddy) on eBay.

[Rodimus Prime]

Forgot to mention: I'd rather pay Voyager price for SS86 Hot Rod (despite the chest thing, which still bugs me) in a store than pay it for TR Hot Rod (or Leader price for Classics Roddy) on eBay.

TR Hot Rod was overpriced at $20. And you can argue all you want for SS86 Hot Rod being $30, if you think he's worth it, that's fine. I don't. It's a matter of opinion and perspective. We have different values for different figures.

[Evil Eye]

I haven't got a problem with paying more for a more complex, tightly engineered figure rather than one bigger by volume myself (in fact I'd much rather the bigger price points be populated by smaller but better engineered figures with extra stuff- I'm glad Shockwave from Siege was a great Voyager with some extra fun bits rather than a giant Shockwave that scaled with nothing), but I have gripes with SS Hot Rod. Notably the fact as mentioned before they couldn't even be bothered to make his car chest transformation "proper". A friend of mine has him and it's not even due to the shape between the real and fake parts being hugely different. Heck, MP Hot Rod didn't fake the chest, and honestly if it weren't for the matrix storage gimmick (technically a pointless addition as IIRC Hot Rod never actually opens his chest to store the Matrix whilst in Hot Rod form, he only does that as Rodimus) his chest would look absolutely perfect, as opposed to almost-but-not-quite perfect.
That said, ha! Look at you Americans upset about paying $30 for a Voyager when we have to pay that for a regular Deluxe! Oh what I wouldn't give for American prices!*

*This is a passive lament and not an actual jab at my friends across the pond.

[william-james88]

I haven't got a problem with paying more for a more complex, tightly engineered figure rather than one bigger by volume myself

Plus I remember a time when fans would pay Voyager prices for the same deluxe figure with different paint apps.

[EvasionModeBumblebee]

After talking about it over in the top 5, I had to pull out SS Thundercracker. It’s such a cool figure!

21DCA9F5-C171-4C58-971E-C7CAA4544E97.jpeg

It’s that head sculpt that really makes it though.

The alt mode, despite being generic, is really good too. Not too far off from an F-4, actually!

With the inevitable swarm of repaints of BB Cybertronian Starscream certainly on their way, we’ll have a Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp all with different molds in SS, which is cool.

I do wish we could get a Skywarp with a head sculpt like Thundercracker’s though, where there’s shared design elements w/ Starscream but it does something different.

[Tuned Agent]

On the Hot Rod debate, I'll just note that it was established a couple weeks ago that Hot Rod weighs 79g without matrix and saw (which would only add a few grams anyway). That's a little bit more than Jazz, but is very in-line with SS and WFC deluxes, with outliers like SS Leadfoot (99g) and Siege Ironhide (107g) weighing notably more.

For more context, TR Hot Rod weighs 91g.

SS86 Hot Rod is a voyager for parts count and parts count only.

I think a lot of people don’t grasp just HOW limiting parts count is. The amount of parts in a figure translates into a certain space taken up in the mold, which translates into more molds, and more complex ones. These molds are stupidly expensive, so Hasbro probably has a set number and size of molds they can make for a deluxe, a voyager, or a leader. So, when designing, there’s a VERY strict limit in the amount of parts a figure can have, which is also somewhat related to the size of said parts, as bigger parts will take up more space in the mold, which means you might have less space left for more parts.

Well said.

I haven't got a problem with paying more for a more complex, tightly engineered figure rather than one bigger by volume myself

Plus I remember a time when fans would pay Voyager prices for the same deluxe figure with different paint apps.

I also remember a time when figures this size and complexity cost $10. Alas, those days are gone.

[william-james88]

I also remember a time when figures this size and complexity cost $10. Alas, those days are gone.

Which figures this size and complexity were 10$?

[Nemesis Destron]

20210202_181614.jpg

That awesome feeling you get when you find that figure you totally didn't expect on finding...you know that feeling?

Good for you!
Which city are you in?
My Amazon order has both Grimlock & Jazz shipping MAY 5th...
So I’m really hoping to find them in stores...
Fingers crossed you’re somewhat close to the Midwest!!

I just happen to be in Fullerton when I fortunately spotted Grimlock. There were only 2 left as I see someone grabbing the other one as I approach thinking "please don't be a greedy scalper and grab the other one".

But "Luck Be a Grimlock" that nite so even better luck to you man!

[Gauntlet101010]

Ordered Studio Grimmy off Walmart's website and got him just yesterday.

Finally. A non-MP G1 style Grmlock that's pretty much perfect. I'd just about given up hope.

[Tuned Agent]

I also remember a time when figures this size and complexity cost $10. Alas, those days are gone.

Which figures this size and complexity were 10$?

Deluxes from ~2009-10, particularly RotF toys. Not all of then were that complex, but I'd guess some were, at least in overall parts count.

[EvasionModeBumblebee]

I'm interested in what those Studio Series assortments are from the leaked listings!

I wonder if these are listings for the next wave after Dino, possibly with ROTF Sideswipe, ROTF Bee, Jolt, and Grindor since we got all those listings last year. (I'd say the individual listings are pretty much confirmed since we know SS-74 is ROTF Bee w/ Sam)

We don't have any voyager listings for that wave, so it's news if this listing is for that wave. Could be 86 for all we know, I guess.

[TF-fan kev777]

I'm interested in what those Studio Series assortments are from the leaked listings!

I wonder if these are listings for the next wave after Dino, possibly with ROTF Sideswipe, ROTF Bee, Jolt, and Grindor since we got all those listings last year. (I'd say the individual listings are pretty much confirmed since we know SS-74 is ROTF Bee w/ Sam)

We don't have any voyager listings for that wave, so it's news if this listing is for that wave. Could be 86 for all we know, I guess.

I'm pretty sure those are just the standard wave case assortments for each size that will be used throughout the year and not a specific wave or figure Listing for any of the sizes.

I believe this was from some type of order form. The retailers aren't going to order individual figures, but rather case assortments.

[william-james88]

I'm interested in what those Studio Series assortments are from the leaked listings!

I wonder if these are listings for the next wave after Dino, possibly with ROTF Sideswipe, ROTF Bee, Jolt, and Grindor since we got all those listings last year. (I'd say the individual listings are pretty much confirmed since we know SS-74 is ROTF Bee w/ Sam)

We don't have any voyager listings for that wave, so it's news if this listing is for that wave. Could be 86 for all we know, I guess.

They are just generic class listings.

[Sowndwave76]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

[sol magnus]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

So he's not worth 30, but he's categorically better than the 20 guys.

[Sowndwave76]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

So he's not worth 30, but he's categorically better than the 20 guys.

Very much so.
But I’m of the opinion that really none of these figures are worth their retail price tags...
Meaning if I think Hot Rod is worth $20-$22, Blurr & Kup are right around $15-$17
These inflated prices also make me feel more & more confident that my collecting days are very numbered.
It’s getting to the point where no matter the character, mold, paint apps, etc.,
the enjoyment factor isn’t enough.

Times have changed, sure. But I can’t say it doesn’t cross my mind that having 5 deluxe figures is roughly $100.
Or that the 6 seekers were $180...
It honestly almost makes me cringe.

[Gauntlet101010]

These inflated prices also make me feel more & more confident that my collecting days are very numbered.
It’s getting to the point where no matter the character, mold, paint apps, etc.,
the enjoyment factor isn’t enough.

Times have changed, sure. But I can’t say it doesn’t cross my mind that having 5 deluxe figures is roughly $100.
Or that the 6 seekers were $180...
It honestly almost makes me cringe.

Yeah, I feel this so much. Especially when it's all coming out all at once. I never thought there was an advantage in the Classics lines being spread out for years at a time, but I can see it now. Instead of having about four per line I'm interested in, it's almost the entire line.

After Studio / Kingdom not sure how deep I'll go into collecting. For now I'm enjoying it.

On Hot Rod - I'm excited for him because he's the best Hot Rod I've seen to date. But the price. Can't argue that it's not pricy.

[william-james88]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

So he's not worth 30, but he's categorically better than the 20 guys.

Very much so.
But I’m of the opinion that really none of these figures are worth their retail price tags...
Meaning if I think Hot Rod is worth $20-$22, Blurr & Kup are right around $15-$17
These inflated prices also make me feel more & more confident that my collecting days are very numbered.
It’s getting to the point where no matter the character, mold, paint apps, etc.,
the enjoyment factor isn’t enough.

Times have changed, sure. But I can’t say it doesn’t cross my mind that having 5 deluxe figures is roughly $100.
Or that the 6 seekers were $180...
It honestly almost makes me cringe.

Those are the prices our parents paid in the 80s and early 90s. 6 G1 Seekers would be 180$ in today's money. And compared to those similarly priced G1 figures, these have more articulation, greater complexity, and little to no partsforming.

[ZeroWolf]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

So he's not worth 30, but he's categorically better than the 20 guys.

Very much so.
But I’m of the opinion that really none of these figures are worth their retail price tags...
Meaning if I think Hot Rod is worth $20-$22, Blurr & Kup are right around $15-$17
These inflated prices also make me feel more & more confident that my collecting days are very numbered.
It’s getting to the point where no matter the character, mold, paint apps, etc.,
the enjoyment factor isn’t enough.

Times have changed, sure. But I can’t say it doesn’t cross my mind that having 5 deluxe figures is roughly $100.
Or that the 6 seekers were $180...
It honestly almost makes me cringe.

Those are the prices our parents paid in the 80s and early 90s. 6 G1 Seekers would be 180$ in today's money. And compared to those similarly priced G1 figures, these have more articulation, greater complexity, and little to no partsforming.

Exactly, and those complaining about the prices increasing may want to look at how much money people are getting now compared to them.

[sol magnus]

My 2 cents:

Hot Rod isn’t worth $30.
I could pass on most of the extras...
That being said, he’s still an excellent figure.
He delivered big time compared to Blurr & Kup imo.

So he's not worth 30, but he's categorically better than the 20 guys.

Very much so.
But I’m of the opinion that really none of these figures are worth their retail price tags...
Meaning if I think Hot Rod is worth $20-$22, Blurr & Kup are right around $15-$17
These inflated prices also make me feel more & more confident that my collecting days are very numbered.
It’s getting to the point where no matter the character, mold, paint apps, etc.,
the enjoyment factor isn’t enough.

Times have changed, sure. But I can’t say it doesn’t cross my mind that having 5 deluxe figures is roughly $100.
Or that the 6 seekers were $180...
It honestly almost makes me cringe.

Those are the prices our parents paid in the 80s and early 90s. 6 G1 Seekers would be 180$ in today's money. And compared to those similarly priced G1 figures, these have more articulation, greater complexity, and little to no partsforming.

Exactly, and those complaining about the prices increasing may want to look at how much money people are getting now compared to them.

I'll admit all day long that Transformers are expense relative to the market, but they always have been. LOL...I remember when I got G2 Optimus Prime. He was 30 bucks. I remember specifically complaining about how Optimus Prime was 20 bucks 5 years previous. But my mom thought that was expensive. To get to 20 dollars on a G.I. Joe vehicle you were talking something like the Night Raven(!)

The 'worth' of a figure has changed a bit anyway, because they boil it down to class price points. But you get some figures that exceed what they are 'worth' and some perhaps that seem less than they're worth. I think Hot Rod is spot on, but that's just me. I think Cliffjumper is spot on, but that's just me - we've all seen people call him a "Legends Class" but that seems utterly daft to me.

[aronjlove]

PHOTO_20210206_123237.jpg

Looks like my Kup was misassembled at the factory

InkedPHOTO_20210206_120253_LI.jpg

Seriously though, the left leg front panel would not stay closed. The two posts with blue lines would go into their respective ports just fine but the one with the yellow line had some leftover plastic and would not tab in right. Had to use a file on the top and front of the post and now it is holding. I didn't feel like getting a refund from Amazon and finding him elsewhere as Amazon did not offer a replacement.