The Energon Pub

It's not an officially sanctioned recon, is it? Therefore, it's incorrect. It's an attempt to bridge the continuities, and it's not possible. The cartoon states different, and I base my opinion on the older source, which is in this case, the cartoon. I take the Ultimate Guide as a good read, and I treat it as factual unless it attempts to recon prior information, in which case, I choose to ignore it.

Shirogoshi wrote:It's not an officially sanctioned recon, is it? Therefore, it's incorrect. It's an attempt to bridge the continuities, and it's not possible. The cartoon states different, and I base my opinion on the older source, which is in this case, the cartoon. I take the Ultimate Guide as a good read, and I treat it as factual unless it attempts to recon prior information, in which case, I choose to ignore it.

Yes, it is an officially sanctioned Retcon. It is in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide This is a canon source book, and is considered by Hasbro as the difinitive source book on TransFormers. It is also written by Simon Furman, one of the premere wirters of TransFormers lore. So, yes, it is an official retcon.

Then how do you guys take the origins? Even with the plot holes, how can you just do it?

I'll ask again, where does it actually say there is one of Unicron in the multiverse an a primus in each?

And then, what about the movie and animated verse? How do ya explain that?

It isn't a different Primus in each. Both Unicron and Primus exist simultaneously in all unvierses at once. Their primary form is in the Astral Plane, and they exist corporially in all universes at the same time. Thus, there is only one Unicron and only one Primus, but they are omnipresent.

I don't understand. You mean there is an alternate Primus/Unicron in each universe?

No, They are the same ones. They simply exsit on all universes at the same time. As I said, their true forms exist on the astral plane. Their corporial forms are just that. Remember, Primu ans Uinicron are gods. Thuis they are not restricted by time or space or dimensions.

No they don't. Their forms on the "Astral Plane" as you call it were trapped in Space Junk by Primus and that's how they took their physicial forms. They aren't in every universe at once, as in the Armada Universe, Unicron had to scope through the Generation1 Universe to get there. Primus takes different forms in Energon and Cybertron- in Cybertron he is matter, in Energon he is simply energy. (The cartoon, that is.) Therefore, Primus and Unicron DO NOT exist in all universes at once, and do not exist in the Astral Scope anymore. And Primus is dead in the Marvel Universe, since he was blown up by Unicron when he possessed Emirate Xaaron, and blew Xaaron to bits. Then, Unicron was destroyed, so there's one universe he no longer exists in. And Primus doesn't exist in the G1 Cartoon Universe, as it makes no sense to mention Unicron without mentioning Primus.

There is nothing that indicates they are "Immortal." Cybertron began falling apart in the Marvel Continuity when Primus was killed. Now, one would think that would indicate he was deader than Michael Vick's football career, wouldn't they? Same with Unicron. He was dead. Otherwise, Furman would've said he wasn't. There is no continuity where Unicron or Primus came back to life after being killed. In the cartoon, Unicron's MIND was still alive, however his body wasn't. Unicron only came back to life in Ghost in the Machine when his head was reactivated. However, he wasn't dead completely in the first place in that instance. However, nothing says Primus or Unicron are immortal, and all Transformers Universes are not the same. Every Primus is different, as is Unicron.

Shirogoshi wrote:No they don't. Their forms on the "Astral Plane" as you call it were trapped in Space Junk by Primus and that's how they took their physicial forms. They aren't in every universe at once, as in the Armada Universe, Unicron had to scope through the Generation1 Universe to get there. Primus takes different forms in Energon and Cybertron- in Cybertron he is matter, in Energon he is simply energy. (The cartoon, that is.) Therefore, Primus and Unicron DO NOT exist in all universes at once, and do not exist in the Astral Scope anymore. And Primus is dead in the Marvel Universe, since he was blown up by Unicron when he possessed Emirate Xaaron, and blew Xaaron to bits. Then, Unicron was destroyed, so there's one universe he no longer exists in. And Primus doesn't exist in the G1 Cartoon Universe, as it makes no sense to mention Unicron without mentioning Primus.

Shirogoshi, have you read the Ultimate Guide? Yes they do exist in all universes at once. The very fact that Unicron was able to pull beings from one universe to another is testament to that. On top of that, the Ultimate Guide also specifically states that Unicron cannot be permanently destroyed in any universe. Even if you completely destroy his corporeal form in that universe, it will eventually regenerate.

You only use the Ultimate guide because it supports your argument. Why do you do that all the time? Because something doesn't contradict what you think, you take it as the "Correct" reason. Almost as if you seem to think you know all there is about Transformers. Every other official form of canon contradicts your so-called Ultimate Guide.

Shirogoshi wrote:You only use the Ultimate guide because it supports your argument. Why do you do that all the time? Because something doesn't contradict what you think, you take it as the "Correct" reason. Almost as if you seem to think you know all there is about Transformers. Every other official form of canon contradicts your so-called Ultimate Guide.

No they don't Shiogoshi. The Ultimate Guide was written by Simon Furman. He is the same guy who wrote just about all of the Marvel UK run and the final third of the Marvel US run as well as i[]War Within[/i] and much of the IDW and current UK TF comics. The Ultimate Guide is just that—the ultimate guide on TransFormers.

Oh, but Simon Furman isn't right, he doesn't like to use females in fiction Tramp. Oh, wait, this time it DOESN'T completely contradict your argument.


I can see why no-one wants to waste their time arguing with you. It's a waste of time and only serves to stress us out. Honestly, I can't BELIEVE ANYONE is this pigheaded and hypocritical.

Shirogoshi, chillout. Hostility won't get you anywhere. This is a friendly discussion. Let's keep it as such.

How is telling the truth unfriendly?

Because you aren't telling the truth, you are just being unecessarily hostile. Now, can we get back to the subject?

Can you each tell me your explanations for thier origin in each universe and how? And AGAIN, HWERE DOES IT SAY PRIMUS AND UNICRON DO NOT EXIST IN THE SAME UNIVERSE AT ONCE SOMETIMES???

Eradicator wrote:Can you each tell me your explanations for thier origin in each universe and how? And AGAIN, HWERE DOES IT SAY PRIMUS AND UNICRON DO NOT EXIST IN THE SAME UNIVERSE AT ONCE SOMETIMES???

There is no source which states that Primus and Unicron don't exist in all universes at once. The only source which sgoes into detail aobut there multiveral connection states that they exsist in all universes simulateously, and that is the Ultimate Guide. The Armada MtMtE #3 Touches upon it as well mentioning that his humger not only spans galaxies, but whole universes and dimensions as well.

Tramp wrote:

Shirogoshi wrote:It's not an officially sanctioned recon, is it? Therefore, it's incorrect. It's an attempt to bridge the continuities, and it's not possible. The cartoon states different, and I base my opinion on the older source, which is in this case, the cartoon. I take the Ultimate Guide as a good read, and I treat it as factual unless it attempts to recon prior information, in which case, I choose to ignore it.

Yes, it is an officially sanctioned Retcon. It is in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide This is a canon source book, and is considered by Hasbro as the difinitive source book on TransFormers. It is also written by Simon Furman, one of the premere wirters of TransFormers lore. So, yes, it is an official retcon.

Tramp......The Ultimate guide was not written to retcon all other TF continuatiy's it was written to try to make sence of all the conflickting storys out there.....and by doing so creating a new universe within a multiverse.The other universe's still are canon within them selfs.And definitive meens that its a point or origin for the rest of the universe's.Think about the TF mulitverse as a tree with many branches.....G1 toon is one branch,G1 and G2 marvel an other,IDW yet another with the Ulitamate guide the roots of all the others.Its not a retcon.That book itself states that theres a TF mulityverse.

Tramp wrote:It isn't a different Primus in each. Both Unicron and Primus exist simultaneously in all unvierses at once. Their primary form is in the Astral Plane, and they exist corporially in all universes at the same time. Thus, there is only one Unicron and only one Primus, but they are omnipresent.

That contradick Marvels G! Unicron's story.

close, but not entirely true. While each of these continuities remain intact, there are certain parts of them all which is overridden. Not major stories, but details about the ancient history that has never been fully dealt with as well as material that is contradictory even within a given contiuity. The G1 cartoon was riddled with continuity errors within itself, not just between it and other materials, That is the very reason why Unicron and Primus exist in all of these universes. It is that they exist simultaniously in all universes, but there are still only just the two, Primus and Unicron. The one thing that is implicitly made clear is that all of the Unicrons and Primuses in every continuity are all the same beings, not individual ones for each continuity. They are the same beings. The Primus and Unicron that appears in Marvel is the same that exist in the G1 cartoon and Beast Wars, and in AEC. They are the same beings. The book specifically states that they are the same Primus and Unicron throughout the multiverse, exisiting in all planes, and all universes simultaneously.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:It isn't a different Primus in each. Both Unicron and Primus exist simultaneously in all unvierses at once. Their primary form is in the Astral Plane, and they exist corporially in all universes at the same time. Thus, there is only one Unicron and only one Primus, but they are omnipresent.

That contradick Marvels G! Unicron's story.

Not really, if you actually read it thoroughly.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:It isn't a different Primus in each. Both Unicron and Primus exist simultaneously in all unvierses at once. Their primary form is in the Astral Plane, and they exist corporially in all universes at the same time. Thus, there is only one Unicron and only one Primus, but they are omnipresent.

That contradick Marvels G! Unicron's story.

Not really, if you actually read it thoroughly.

The Guide or the Marvel?

The Guide, particularly the section on Primus and Unicron. It includes the information from Marvel, and explains any apparent contradictions. Even the Marvel comics stated that Primus and Unicron were multiplaner beings.

Tramp wrote:The Guide, particularly the section on Primus and Unicron. It includes the information from Marvel, and explains any apparent contradictions. Even the Marvel comics stated that Primus and Unicron were multiplaner beings.

I was referring to issue #67 of the Marven run where the Current Unicron sent Hook, Line and Sinker into the future to retreve Galvatron and bring him to the past.When Galvatron says "No! Why is Unicron doing this!I served him faithfully!He gave me Earth!" and then Hook replys "Different Unicron.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:The Guide, particularly the section on Primus and Unicron. It includes the information from Marvel, and explains any apparent contradictions. Even the Marvel comics stated that Primus and Unicron were multiplaner beings.

I was referring to issue #67 of the Marven run where the Current Unicron sent Hook, Line and Sinker into the future to retreve Galvatron and bring him to the past.When Galvatron says "No! Why is Unicron doing this!I served him faithfully!He gave me Earth!" and then Hook replys "Different Unicron.

As far as Hook is concerned, he may very well believe that it is a different Unicron. How would he know any different? Hook's a mortal, not a god.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:The Guide, particularly the section on Primus and Unicron. It includes the information from Marvel, and explains any apparent contradictions. Even the Marvel comics stated that Primus and Unicron were multiplaner beings.

I was referring to issue #67 of the Marven run where the Current Unicron sent Hook, Line and Sinker into the future to retreve Galvatron and bring him to the past.When Galvatron says "No! Why is Unicron doing this!I served him faithfully!He gave me Earth!" and then Hook replys "Different Unicron.

As far as Hook is concerned, he may very well believe that it is a different Unicron. How would he know any different? Hook's a mortal, not a god.

Unicron him self said when confronted by Galvatron "Ah ha,Not I,you speak of a future that may or may not come to pastA Unicron I may or may not become.With each action we create alternate timelines,where events proceed in their own unique fashion.I simply poached you from on of my possible futures."