The Energon Pub

Just tell me, how do you guys deal with Primu/Unicron being absent from G1/Movie? (07)?

To be fair I was thinking back and Prime was the only Autobot I remember visibly turning grey. Of course, Starscream turns grey as well, so no-one's right. No-one, except the book.

edit: as for Unicron and Primus not being in the new movie, I dealt with it fine. No need to have them there. This was pretty much an origin story. The casual movie-goer wouldn't have known or cared about them and it'd probably have ended up a confusing mess if one (or both) of the concepts was shoe-horned in.

What about geewun?

Uh, Sto_vo, dude, it isn't mentioned in the Ultimate Guide, so it never happened. You have to realise, anything that happened before the Ultimate Guide and wasn't included doesn't count, and was all just for fun. (/Sarcasm)

Sorry I made a mistake Wheeljack and Windcharger do not fade but Prowl does.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Sorry I made a mistake Wheeljack and Windcharger do not fade but Prowl does.

Damn, yes he does. I always forget because what you see of him on screen is already mostly grey, but he does fade as he's falling after getting shot, with the orange smoke stuff coming out of his mouth, yeah?

Personally, I reject the term gods. I just see them [Primus and Unicron] as higher lifeforms that exist in multiple realities including the atral plane - which might actually explain away the "sub dimensional" technology mentioned in the fiction.....

Balancing Act shows a Unicron in one universe vanishing as a Unicron in another universe is destroyed which leads me to believe that you can affect Unicron across the entire multiverse in one go. If his essence remains then his body can be regenerated - and his influence on the material realm(s).

Whether he can actually be killed or not actually raises another interesting question: can the characters in this story actually influence their own fate?

Hey Tramp did you check the 86 movie out yet?Do you see where your wrong about Prime being the only one to turn grey?

^He probably isn't replying because you were right. He's probably throwing a tantrum or something. Or thinking of a way he can warp what you said in typical Tramp fashion.

And he's also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.

Shirogoshi wrote:^He probably isn't replying because you were right. He's probably throwing a tantrum or something. Or thinking of a way he can warp what you said in typical Tramp fashion.

And he's also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.

Thats what happens when you place all your faith in one book.I hope the Pope isint reading this

Unicron is like the devil.He is an evil robot who thinks he is a god and is only bend on destruction of life. He can't create original life only corrupt it. That's why he had to seek out Megatron and the weaker decepticons so he could reformatted them.He couldn't make life out of nothing like a god like Primus. It is like evolution. In order for it occur they must be life around so it can evolve.

And that has what to do with anything in this topic? We know what Unicron and Primus ARE.

Shirogoshi please, no need to yelp at Babylon Queen, she probably didn't read all 16 pages and felt like answeringing the main question. No need to get so picky about her post.

Off subject here for a moment, I do wish Hasbro would take the approach that Lucus Films did regarding the Starwars history. Take the storyline that most people read or connected to, that being the cartoon series and use that as the main thread. Then create a series of novels to follow the events. Also have a committe of people that really know and like the series to act as checkers, and have novels act as the main continuity. That way we're not getting into the whole issue of which continuity is correct. The comics can act like the expanded universe, alternate univeres, that subjectly link to the main story, you can have some crossing over, but ultimatly keep it to the Gen 1/Beast wars/Beast Machine's story. That way no one can argue over which continuity is the true one, because there will be one that is the finallized one.

Back on Subject, I had an idea of how to combine all elements of the whole Unicron Primus thing into one solid story, however it would probably be ruled out by various purest who must have it one way or the other, and for me I don't follow the Ultimate guide as it doesn't show any links to the cartoon. Heck the whole idea of the Male transformers treating Arcee with disrespect. Are they joking? If anything she was treated with just as much respect as Springer and Hot Rod, if not more. (And for the record, I don't count the works of 3H to be actual continutity, more like glorious fanfiction)

I'm going to bite the bullet here and just put down my thoughts on Primus and Unicron. Why not have it where Unicron was essencially an essence created by the Source that was captured by the Vok as an experiment and the body built by Primacron for them. When Unicron grew angry and rebel he destroyed the voks physical bodies due to his power, but those that had reached a higher plane of being merged with the essence of what was left of the swarm and became what the Vok are now. Primacron's assisant gave his life to save his friend, thus becomeing the first holder of the matrix, and his spark and body split, part of it became that Oracle thing, the other half became the matrix itself. Primus is built by Primacron and his essence is deposited in the planet body of Cybertron, which later uses the Matrix to destroy his brother, then slumbers creating Drones, which were later found by the Quintessons, who were also strange experiments that came from the Voks tampering. They turned the planet into a factory, reconfigured the drones that dwelled on Primus as the consumer goods and the war machines to sell. They connected Sigma to Primus, unknowingly, tapping into his spark, creating the Allspark, which later actived the sentience of the transformers when it gained it's own through merging with Primus. The first 13 Transfomers were probably put to rest by Primus, fearing the Quintesson might use them in a dark twisted way. Unicron mean while was regenerating himself though the fact that he was from the source, and being a child of it he could find a way to live on even in slumber, or death.

That's my own way of looking at it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:it has always been showen that a TF that dies and fades to grey stays dead in the U.S. show....but in the Japanese show they can be brought back.

Actually, it's the other way around. Prime and Starscream (I haven't seen Prowl fade to grey, but I'm not disputing he does) fade to grey and they both come back. Every other tf that dies in the movie keeps their colouring intact.

Yet Prime turned grey in Headmasters and didn't return. Blaster and Soundwave turned white and did.

Sorry if this has already been covered, but I aint trawling through loads of posts of malcontent at each other.

I thought the whole gray thing was reconed with Return of Optimus Prime. As I recall he was pretty much the same color that he was when he was living. Then later in Beast Wars Dinobot never changed colors when he died. So I do believe they reconed the idea of the gray being the dead Transformer.

The only thing that happened with Prowl is his optics went red then faded to black as he fell, he naver turned grey. Also, I just looked at Windcharger and Wheeljack, and no, neither turned grey. Most of Windcharger is already dark grey to begin with, except for his arms and legs. Wheeljack too still has all of his colors. Most of what we see of him is from the shoulders up, and his head is mostly black and grey, so you only see a little bit of his colors. So, no, neither lose their color.

Again I think they probably reconed that idea as it was a bit too distrubing for most viewers, considering that they were going to kill Prime again. -_- Brilliant guys make the kids cry again. Nice.

Insurgent wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:it has always been showen that a TF that dies and fades to grey stays dead in the U.S. show....but in the Japanese show they can be brought back.

Actually, it's the other way around. Prime and Starscream (I haven't seen Prowl fade to grey, but I'm not disputing he does) fade to grey and they both come back. Every other tf that dies in the movie keeps their colouring intact.

Yet Prime turned grey in Headmasters and didn't return. Blaster and Soundwave turned white and did.

Sorry if this has already been covered, but I aint trawling through loads of posts of malcontent at each other.

I did correct my self on that one the others stayed their own color but Prown dos in fact fade to grey.Blaster and Soundwave fade white?????????I must have a bad copy of the Headmasters because it looks like grey to me....not as dark as Prime did but it still looks grey.

Night Striker wrote:I thought the whole gray thing was reconed with Return of Optimus Prime. As I recall he was pretty much the same color that he was when he was living. Then later in Beast Wars Dinobot never changed colors when he died. So I do believe they reconed the idea of the gray being the dead Transformer.

I figered it for an animation error at the beginning of Dark Awakening.That episode was full of errors.

Tramp wrote:The only thing that happened with Prowl is his optics went red then faded to black as he fell, he naver turned grey. Also, I just looked at Windcharger and Wheeljack, and no, neither turned grey. Most of Windcharger is already dark grey to begin with, except for his arms and legs. Wheeljack too still has all of his colors. Most of what we see of him is from the shoulders up, and his head is mostly black and grey, so you only see a little bit of his colors. So, no, neither lose their color.

Dude I corrected myself about Windcharger and Wheeljack already but look frame by frame on Prowl when he dies.Look at the horns on his head you can see them fade to grey.....its hard to tell with the rest of his face all white.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:The only thing that happened with Prowl is his optics went red then faded to black as he fell, he naver turned grey. Also, I just looked at Windcharger and Wheeljack, and no, neither turned grey. Most of Windcharger is already dark grey to begin with, except for his arms and legs. Wheeljack too still has all of his colors. Most of what we see of him is from the shoulders up, and his head is mostly black and grey, so you only see a little bit of his colors. So, no, neither lose their color.

Dude I corrected myself about Windcharger and Wheeljack already but look frame by frame on Prowl when he dies.Look at the horns on his head you can see them fade to grey.....its hard to tell with the rest of his face all white.

No it doesn't. I just watched the footage four of five times in a row, and have the scene right in front of me. He is already black and white to begin with. All that happens is his optics go from blue to orangs then fade to black as orange smoke pours out of his mouth, then he falls over backwards. His colors don't change at all.
EDIT: I see what you mean about his horns, but once again that still goes back to him being one of the older bots. As I said before, those who have lived a long time take on a pallor upon ternination. This is specifically stated in MtMtE#8

Dude hear gos a frame by frame still shots.Look at the red horns at the top of his head you'll see them fade.And his face normaly grey fades to a shade or green/grey.If you look at the video closely and on slow mode you can see the fade happen unlike in thses still photos.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:The only thing that happened with Prowl is his optics went red then faded to black as he fell, he naver turned grey. Also, I just looked at Windcharger and Wheeljack, and no, neither turned grey. Most of Windcharger is already dark grey to begin with, except for his arms and legs. Wheeljack too still has all of his colors. Most of what we see of him is from the shoulders up, and his head is mostly black and grey, so you only see a little bit of his colors. So, no, neither lose their color.

Dude I corrected myself about Windcharger and Wheeljack already but look frame by frame on Prowl when he dies.Look at the horns on his head you can see them fade to grey.....its hard to tell with the rest of his face all white.

No it doesn't. I just watched the footage four of five times in a row, and have the scene right in front of me. He is already black and white to begin with. All that happens is his optics go from blue to orangs then fade to black as orange smoke pours out of his mouth, then he falls over backwards. His colors don't change at all.
EDIT: I see what you mean about his horns, but once again that still goes back to him being one of the older bots. As I said before, those who have lived a long time take on a pallor upon ternination. This is specifically stated in MtMtE#8

And what about Blaster and Soundwave in the Japanese Headmasters they fade as well.You'll have to at least admit that their Universe cant fit into your Ulitmate guide universe.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:The only thing that happened with Prowl is his optics went red then faded to black as he fell, he naver turned grey. Also, I just looked at Windcharger and Wheeljack, and no, neither turned grey. Most of Windcharger is already dark grey to begin with, except for his arms and legs. Wheeljack too still has all of his colors. Most of what we see of him is from the shoulders up, and his head is mostly black and grey, so you only see a little bit of his colors. So, no, neither lose their color.

Dude I corrected myself about Windcharger and Wheeljack already but look frame by frame on Prowl when he dies.Look at the horns on his head you can see them fade to grey.....its hard to tell with the rest of his face all white.

No it doesn't. I just watched the footage four of five times in a row, and have the scene right in front of me. He is already black and white to begin with. All that happens is his optics go from blue to orangs then fade to black as orange smoke pours out of his mouth, then he falls over backwards. His colors don't change at all.
EDIT: I see what you mean about his horns, but once again that still goes back to him being one of the older bots. As I said before, those who have lived a long time take on a pallor upon ternination. This is specifically stated in MtMtE#8

Then you'll have to admit that YOU made a MISTAKE.

You'll also have to admit that the Ultimate does not and CAN NOT apply to the Japanese universe's.They have completly different definations of the headmaster/targetmaster prosses and completly different historys for the same charters.