The Energon Pub

Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:48 pm

I say nay replace arena with the pit :twisted:

News Credits: 1014 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:51 pm

Jeep! wrote:
I wrote:However, were the beast factions to join in missions en masse, or as close to en masse as they can muster, a suitable precedent would be set which may very well persuade other players of their worth and convince them of the idea of defection – and a great enough number of would-be defectors would (should) be enough to sway the powers that be into changing players factions on demand.

Explain my ambiguity. I'm in favour of a four-faction approach (five, in fact, as Blendtrons/Unicronians would be very welcome), and any lengths to increase their standing and numbers would be something I'd definately get behind.

So your saying were the beast factions to join en masse in their OWN missions, this may persuade more to join or defect? I thought the whole arguement for beasties being in the arena was the LACK of mission availability. Anywhoo, a fifth faction? Why not. Variety is the spice of life right, but I dont agree with changing factions at will. You'd have people bouncing back and forth like the energizer bunny and faction confidentiality would be compromised.

The witch hunts would be something though....... :twisted:

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:53 pm

I don't mind removing the arena only if we get new missions for the beast factions. As of now I only get a few 3-6 missions vs the cons where I'm out numbered 6-2 or more often 4-11 vs the bots and that is either a now show on the bots or I'm outnumbered 4-1. So the only way my higher main guys fight the cons or maximals is the arena.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:03 pm

First Gen wrote:
Jeep! wrote:
I wrote:However, were the beast factions to join in missions en masse, or as close to en masse as they can muster, a suitable precedent would be set which may very well persuade other players of their worth and convince them of the idea of defection – and a great enough number of would-be defectors would (should) be enough to sway the powers that be into changing players factions on demand.

Explain my ambiguity. I'm in favour of a four-faction approach (five, in fact, as Blendtrons/Unicronians would be very welcome), and any lengths to increase their standing and numbers would be something I'd definately get behind.

So your saying were the beast factions to join en masse in their OWN missions, this may persuade more to join or defect? I thought the whole arguement for beasties being in the arena was the LACK of mission availability. Anywhoo, a fifth faction? Why not. Variety is the spice of life right, but I dont agree with changing factions at will. You'd have people bouncing back and forth like the energizer bunny and faction confidentiality would be compromised.

The witch hunts would be something though.......

It's both because of the outnumbering (see my original point about the Autobots for the logic of outnumbering); and the lack of mission brackets. Closing the arena forces the latter to be addressed, and it goes a ways to addressing the former.
Willy-nilly faction changing is not a suggestion, one-way on-demand defection is.

News Credits: 6 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:06 pm

I like the idea of keeping the arena for lvl 0s only. It's kinda like a training program as such, so they can get used to the game and not get some lvl 1/2 beating them to a oily pulp.

I mst request that the challenge pit come in as a replacement. I must have duals damn you!

Looking at it, the arena seems a very bad idea to begin with. Who you fight is completely random- so rarely are you pitted against someone your own xp level (often resulting in a one-sided fight).

Arena for lvl 0 only! Challenge pit for everyone! Showdowns abound!

EDIT:- Back JP here.

There are enough beasties in each faction to fully support a few missions. Cowardice is what is keeping beasty numbers in missions low.

Nuke the hole they hide in, and they'll have no choice but to fight together.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:12 pm

Kill it! Kill it till it's dead! (you heard)

News Credits: 1014 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:16 pm

Can anyone present some hard core numbers by faction as to get a better understanding?

So far the only arguement for keeping the arena is lack of missions and lvl 0's. If you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at least X amount of members are in said factions, then we could get a better grasp of the situation, draw conclusions, cross the T's and dot..........the lower case j's. :grin:

News Credits: 6 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:23 pm

I think a 'Replace it' option needs to be added to the poll JP.

I've heard there are about 50 players a piece in the beasty factions.

Most of those are active members too. As we all know, it's the active members that make the difference :wink:

(which is why the decepticons are beating the autobots in missions at 635 to 569 right now)

Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:24 pm

Dealer wrote:There are enough beasties in each faction to fully support a few missions. Cowardice is what is keeping beasty numbers in missions low.

Nuke the hole they hide in, and they'll have no choice but to fight together.

Ignorant and totally untrue. Our numbers are legitimately low enough we can't fill all the slots in our missions. Even that said, most of my bots STILL go in missions. I'm a coward? Whatever.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:25 pm

Dealer wrote:I think a 'Replace it' option needs to be added to the poll JP.

Still entails removing it, and I don't see any suitable replacements other than replacing the Tag Team missions with 1-a-side missions that pop up VERY rarely.

And the question of beast numbers is easily addressed. DEFECTIONS! WE NEED DEFECTIONS!

News Credits: 6 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:33 pm

I meant with the challenge pit that was dreamed up some time ago. That was a brilliant idea.

I forgot to mention that there are already arena style missions- those tag team challenges. Make those available to beasties too.

Rat Convoy- that was a general statement, as not all of your allies are as brave as you. Numbers would be easily addressed.

Once the beasties had more missions to go into, I don't see why faction switching couldn't be done again.

Are there not quite a few players that want to go max/pred? Give em the chance, let them go. Numbers will go up a little at a time.

Of course, I really think that the choice to be max/pred should be added to that very start section (hard to explain. That screen you see when you make an account and go to start playing HMW- the faction selection screen). You'll have more casual players joing too.

(Don't forget how many fans were brought in by the beast wars. Quite a few indeed).

EDIT:- Rat Convoy. Most missions I've seen involving maxis/preds as 3 a side. Are your numbers really so terrible that you can't get two team mates in a mission with you?

In the end, the easiest way to solve the problem is to offer people the chance to go beasty again.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:37 pm

I'm gonna join in with all the people saying keep it available to lvl 0's. 'Course once you are past lvl 0 you should know enough of the game to be willing to join in with the missions, and do reasonably well, so I don't see the point of it beyond that point.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 pm

Dealer wrote:EDIT:- Rat Convoy. Most missions I've seen involving maxis/preds as 3 a side. Are your numbers really so terrible that you can't get two team mates in a mission with you?

The 0-3 missions are 3-a-side. The 4-11 missions are 4-a-side. I'm not sure what the 3-6 missions are off-hand, but they're either 4 or 6-a-side.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:10 pm

Dealer wrote:EDIT:- Rat Convoy. Most missions I've seen involving maxis/preds as 3 a side. Are your numbers really so terrible that you can't get two team mates in a mission with you?

Actually, our 3-6 Maximal v. Autobot mission is 6 per side, and the 4-11 Maximal v. Decepticon mission is 4 per side. We often get between two to four Maximals in the Autobot one, and one to three Maximals in the Decepticon one. Some times are better than others - I'm active and playing so much of the day that I'm in the missions were we are coming close to filling our side and the ones where I'm all by myself.

News Credits: 226 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:19 pm

So i've sat back and read all the posts and listened to all the arguments and had a quick chat with JP on msn earlier.

One thing that stood out to me was said earlier in this thread about how xp flowed more freely when the arena was shut down.

And why was that? Because the higher levels were forced into missions.

Now the majority of you will say that's a good thing. But let me give you a perspective from a high level player who does both arena AND missions (more so missions).

It's VERY hard for a high level to earn their base xp and i'm sure a lot of others don't like the idea of being xp generators.

Boohoo to the high levels you say? Well that's all well and good, but if that's your attitude then you're pretty selfish as you're only looking out for xp gains for yourself, you're not looking at the bigger picture for the game overall.

The Arena also offers variety. It's nice to have a little one on one throw down now and then.

Does it take away from missions? Yes. But one other thing that stood out for me is the old argument "x faction hides in the arena while y faction ends up with empty missions".

So let me ask you this, who is x faction fighting in the arena?

Take the arena away, sure, x faction will end up in missions, but those they've been fighting in the arena will be right behind. Lop sided again.

Now in regards to the Beast factions, I want them in the game. But i'm still of the belief the player base isn't big enough to sustain them. Sure, we can open it up so new people joining have the option of joining them, but that's at lower levels. We'll be waiting a good year for those new folk to become threats in the game.

Whiiiiiiiich brings us back to the good old solution of swapping people over ... again.

And I gotta ask, just how many times are Decepticons going to have to swap over to keep this game going?

Frankly, sort out the mission brackets, clean 'em up and get them set across all levels and all factions (and turn the goddamn auto generator off!). This is something that doesn't require massive amounts of coding, it's a simple easy to do job that WILL make the missions more enticing.

Then see if arena dwellers are still a problem. Because until such time as the missions are fixed up, they're just not very enticing to some.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:22 pm

I vote yea for the arena, but only if the rest of HMW is running smoothly.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:28 pm

Keep it, then I don't have to rely on half assed backup...

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:32 pm

Whisper wrote:Keep it, then I don't have to rely on half assed backup...

It's half-assed cause the other half is in the arena...

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:39 pm

I'll admit that Burn's point about becoming xp generators at higher levels does make the arena more apealing.

My highest charecter (Dreadspawn, lvl

is REALLY sturgling ot make decent XP right now, and my other lvl 8 isnt doing badly, but he dosnt get base al ot of the time.

HOWEVER.

Missions overall = more xp.
More xp = lvl up quicker.

Not to mention that if the option of arena was taken away, then whenever the higher levels play, they will be forced to play in the missions, hence higher potential xp for the higher levels already in the missions.

Another thing worth mentioning is that there are al ot of players like myself who are playing their socks off to get up there, and yes, it's gonna take us a while, but we'll get there, and when we do, there will be more reasons to play in the missions.

Finaly, Burn mentioned the wish for an alternative to just the missions. This was the innital reason I was very against the anrea being taken down myself. If it were possible ot put the pit into action though, that problem would be null n void, yes, it wouldnt provide xp, but it does mean you dont have to play missons all the time.

News Credits: 42 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:43 pm

Remove any kind of xp gain from it and increase the energon rewards.

That'll solve Ratty's financial problem and will be helpful for those that cant make a profit from missions to still have an income but if people want their team to advance they will have to use the missons, and they will soon learn that they will need a good configuration to keep up with the people they are fighting against/alongside.

Personally though, Ive voted for its removal - I cant remember the last time I actually used it.

Burn wrote:Frankly, sort out the mission brackets, clean 'em up and get them set across all levels and all factions

And what he said. ^^

News Credits: 226 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:20 pm

Redimus wrote:
Missions overall = more xp.
More xp = lvl up quicker.

See I won't argue with that.

BUT

Who is getting the majority of the xp? Lower levels. Sure, they level up faster but someone basically has to be a sacrificial goat.

So why would someone who's in the top 50 want to be a generator to someone who will use them as a stepping stone to enter the top 50 themselves?

Again, selfish of a higher level player I know, but the high scores are pretty much one of the few things a person can achieve for in this game at the moment.

Redimus wrote:Not to mention that if the option of arena was taken away, then whenever the higher levels play, they will be forced to play in the missions, hence higher potential xp for the higher levels already in the missions.

I still think we're about 6 months away from filling a 9-11 mission completely. We're getting there though.

Unfortunately the 6-11 missions generate a lot which is probably putting higher levels off from entering.

Which brings back the old (and frankly easier) idea of sorting out the mission brackets and frequency of generation.

Redimus wrote:If it were possible ot put the pit into action though, that problem would be null n void, yes, it wouldnt provide xp, but it does mean you dont have to play missons all the time.

As long as it's MY Challenge Pit and not the watered down pointless version that we were going to get rammed down our throats.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:26 pm

Whilst there is nothing you are saying that is incorect, I dont necersarily think that what you say is a problem. Maybe it's a difference of aproach to the game, but I'd ratherh ave people leach xp off me now, knowing it means i cna return the favour later, than have them rot away in the arena. Not to mention the ever increasign popularity of medics, making some excelent missions even if you are a high level guy yourself.

But yes I do see your point, but is 6 months really that much of a problem to wait to improve the gameplay? I honestly cant see an easier way of achiving the same goal.

Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:50 pm

you have my vote for killing the arena maybe we can new there

Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:53 pm

I think the Arena should be taken out. I would like to see more missions for us Preds.

News Credits: 226 · Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:57 pm

Redimus wrote:But yes I do see your point, but is 6 months really that much of a problem to wait to improve the gameplay? I honestly cant see an easier way of achiving the same goal.

You're asking a guy who has waited nearly 5 years for things in this game. I think it's obvious I can be patient!