The Energon Pub

[Sabrblade]

Here is the Non Headache explanation.

It Wasn't Them.

I know that. This is just another argument to use against those who believe this series to be in the same universe as G1.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Thank you. Glad someone else besides me saw the connection and stood up and actually said something. I gotta warn you though, your opinion will be torn apart and they'll basically do everything short of getting warned to call you stupid and tell you how wrong you are. I finally let it go in one ear, out the other and figure "Screw 'em." Until we have a definitive answer, there's no way to know so neither side is right...I guess.

Never give up on what you believe.If that's your opinion then stand up for it and be proud.

But remember this is a public debate forum and every one's opinion is subject to some scrutuny.

Especially when the opinion is based on week evidence like the one in this debate.

You forgot something, Sto.

The G1 movie and third seaon took place in 2005 and 2006 (2010 in the Japanese version) in the 21st Century. Animated takes place in the 22nd Century. Now we all should know that 1 century = 100 years.

I did'nt forget it....on the contrary it was one of my first thoughts on the subject but I have a habit of debating my owen thought's before I try debating them on a open forum.

And in my internal debate I realised that Animated Earth being in the 22nd Century can be eazly explained by those that believe that Animated and G1 are connected.

[Sabrblade]

How so? If someone believed Animated and G1 to be in the same universe, how could they explain the Witwickys living for 100 years and not aging?

(I know its not really the Witwickys, but one who thinks that TF:A and G1 are tied together could think they are to futher connect the two series without thinking of the time periods each one takes place in.)

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

How so? If someone believed Animated and G1 to be in the same universe, how could they explain the Witwickys living for 100 years and not aging?

(I know its not really the Witwickys, but one who thinks that TF:A and G1 are tied together could think they are to futher connect the two series without thinking of the time periods each one takes place in.)

Dude read the part of my post that I quoted from you.....here I'll do it again..............

You forgot something, Sto.

The G1 movie and third seaon took place in 2005 and 2006 (2010 in the Japanese version) in the 21st Century. Animated takes place in the 22nd Century. Now we all should know that 1 century = 100 years.

As you can see I wasnt talking about Spike and family.

The part of Animated taking place in the 22st Century would be eazy to explain for a "pro G1 connection" believer.

[Sabrblade]

Then you missed the point of my post. That century talk was just to build up to the Witwicky conflict. It was that family that my post was about, not the Century stuff. I too know how a believer would work around that.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Then you missed the point of my post. That century talk was just to build up to the Witwicky conflict. It was that family that my post was about, not the Century stuff. I too know how a believer would work around that.

I understood that too but I thought you were trying to make 2 different points with your statement.

[Tekka]

If Optimus Prime was such an avid student of history, and for humour's sake it is the future of G1. How would he have not known about Earth or Humans?

Did he forget that the last part, the decisive part of the war took place centered around Earth? That is where the last great battle of the war took place, and cost many lives. Surely this academy would teach that as history.

What happened to Autobot City? Did it conveniently vanish? Did everyone on Earth run into Mindwipe and get hypnotized to forget their own history, while Rumble and Frenzy travelled the globe burning books and computers?

I don't understand how people could possibly still be arguing for it.

I go cry now.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

If Optimus Prime was such an avid student of history, and for humour's sake it is the future of G1. How would he have not known about Earth or Humans?

Did he forget that the last part, the decisive part of the war took place centered around Earth? That is where the last great battle of the war took place, and cost many lives. Surely this academy would teach that as history.

What happened to Autobot City? Did it conveniently vanish? Did everyone on Earth run into Mindwipe and get hypnotized to forget their own history, while Rumble and Frenzy travelled the globe burning books and computers?

I don't understand how people could possibly still be arguing for it.

I go cry now.

I agree with your whole statement but you did make one little mistake.

I know the last battle we saw of G1 in the toon involved Earth but according to Beast Machines the final battle of the "Great War" was fought on Cybertron in the city of Iacon and Optimus Prime died yet again.

[Tekka]

Surely mopping up leftover Decepticons wouldn't be as important as the battle that cost the leaders of both factions. Maybe a little less memorable than Unicron since it's hard for him not to be in your face about pretty much everything.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Surely mopping up leftover Decepticons wouldn't be as important as the battle that cost the leaders of both factions. Maybe a little less memorable than Unicron since it's hard for him not to be in your face about pretty much everything.

What do you meen by "Surely mopping up leftover Decepticons wouldn't be as important as the battle that cost the leaders of both factions."?????

[Tekka]

It means exactly what it says.

That was the turning point in the war, when the Autobots took back Cybertron and and was the biggest most important battle we got to see. A mention of a battle from Beast Machines isn't really going to top it.

Anything could have happened in this battle. Galvatron could have tripped over a rock, accidentally shot himself in the face, fallen off a cliff and squashed Optimus Prime. Nobody is really ever going to know if it will top the epicness of the battle for Autobot city. And if anything should go down as the last big battle and turning point of the great war, it should be that one.

I doubt very much you will agree with me, but that is my belief.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

It means exactly what it says.

That was the turning point in the war, when the Autobots took back Cybertron and and was the biggest most important battle we got to see. A mention of a battle from Beast Machines isn't really going to top it.

Anything could have happened in this battle. Galvatron could have tripped over a rock, accidentally shot himself in the face, fallen off a cliff and squashed Optimus Prime. Nobody is really ever going to know if it will top the epicness of the battle for Autobot city. And if anything should go down as the last big battle and turning point of the great war, it should be that one.

I doubt very much you will agree with me, but that is my belief.

Its not really a point of agreeing with you but the words of Optimus Primal in Beast Machines suggest that the final battle was at least in scope the equal [if not greater] of any we ever got to see in the G1 years.

I cant repeat Primal's excact words right now but the final battle that was mention resulted in the heroic death of Optimus Prime.And the spot that he died on was so revered that a monument of him was errected on the very spot that he fell in battle.

The final battle also resulted in the peace treatie between the Autobots and what was left of the Decepticons.

I'll agree with you that when the Autobot's took back Cybertron was a great victory for them and the biggest we ever got to see in G1 but there was a whole season after that battle [season 3] and the Decepticon were very much a treat durring it.

And the very last battle we got to see, the Rebirth, showed us that the Decepticon had gotten more dangerious with the addition of the Headmaster and Targetmasters.

So we really dont know when the real end to the Great War happened.

[Tekka]

Fair enough.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Fair enough.

Thank you...I always try my hardest to be fair in every debate I take part in.

[Saber Prime]

Are you forgetting Autobot City on Earth was actully Metroplex? The city in this case actully could have got up and walked away.

At any rate... Professor Sumdac didn't seem to recogognize the Autobots either despite the fact he's had a cybertronian locked up in his lab for the last 50 years.

Ratchet was apperently killed and resurected pluse Autobots live alot longer than humans. At his age, maybe he simply forgot humans ever exsisted.

Blackarachnia is not a Predacon in this series and the upgrade from Autobot/Decepticon to Maximal/Predacon had nothing to do with Transformers becomming organic. There are some purly technological Maximals and Predacons in the Japanese BW series and in the BotCon comics.

The Upgrade consisted of making the Transformers smaller and more fuel effecient.

There's something else tieing G1 Animated and Beast Wars. G1 Started off with Cybertron being low on Energon reserves and that's why they left Cybertron to find new sources of fuel. BW Characters were downsized to conserve fuel. And in Animated Telitran 1 tells Optimus it can't follow his orders due to Cybertron's ongoing efforts to conserve Energon so obviously there's still an energy crises going on.

Allso if you wanna use Cybertronians and Humans not knowing about eachother as proof these ar different series. What about the Unicron Trilligy? By that reconing Cybertron is not part of the Unicron Trilligy (And in Japan it actully isn't but Hasbro wanted it to be.) but if Cybertron is not part of the Trilligy then there are only 2 series conected to eachother. I order to be a Trilligy it has to have at least 3 parts. Humans and Cybertronians are not aware of eachother in Cybertron yet it's still supose to be a continuation from Energon.

I think I covered everyting... except the plot holes, still trying to find something big enough to cover them up.

[Tekka]

Autobot City is NOT Metroplex. They are completely different, and the city is massive in comparison.

An energy crisis proves nothing more than there is an energy crisis. Conservation does not prove a crisis either, it might simply be that they wish to cut down on pollution or anything else related to energy production.

Machines don't forget, they can delete information or compress it down so much it takes a long time to access. But again, if Prime were a student of history he would have known about Earth and how everything about the war changed there.

During G1 Transformers did things around the whole world, Megatron and company plundered Earths resources, destroyed power plants, took over New York City, terrorized the populace, and you think it's perfectly plausible noone remembers?

Whatever floats your boat.

[TheMuffin]

The real question is why even try? You're grasping at straws trying to connect these series. Why? Can't you just enjoy this as a new continuation? Why wrack your brain over something that was nothing more than fan wankage?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Are you forgetting Autobot City on Earth was actully Metroplex? The city in this case actully could have got up and walked away.

At any rate... Professor Sumdac didn't seem to recogognize the Autobots either despite the fact he's had a cybertronian locked up in his lab for the last 50 years.

He did say that the Autobot's were very familer. To me thats recogognize them.

Ratchet was apperently killed and resurected pluse Autobots live alot longer than humans. At his age, maybe he simply forgot humans ever exsisted.

But if Animated Ratchet is the same as G1 Ratchet.....not that much time has pased for him.Follow me here.

First Ani Ratchet says that the Great war ended Centuies ago then he says that they sent the Alspark threw the warp gate all those Centuies ago.

To me that dialoge suggest that at least 2 Centuies [most likely more based on his tone] has past between the Ani Ratchet's great war and the events we saw in the first episode of Animated.

If his dialoge holds true then he can not be his G1 counterpart because Beast Wars takes place 3 Centuies after the end of G1's great war.The math doesnt not match up.

Also.....All the TF's in Beast Wars were fully aware of humans and earth.....are you really suggesting that the intire TF race and every database on the planet Cybertron forgot all about Earth and humans in such a short amount of time and then remember it all again in time for the Beast Wars????

And how would this mass mind wipe have effected the AniDecepticons?????They were off Cybertron all those centuies.

And 4 million years of being deactivated did not effect G1's Ratchet's memeroy nor did it with any of the other bots that crashed landed in the G1 Ark.

Allso if you wanna use Cybertronians and Humans not knowing about eachother as proof these ar different series. What about the Unicron Trilligy? By that reconing Cybertron is not part of the Unicron Trilligy (And in Japan it actully isn't but Hasbro wanted it to be.) but if Cybertron is not part of the Trilligy then there are only 2 series conected to eachother. I order to be a Trilligy it has to have at least 3 parts. Humans and Cybertronians are not aware of eachother in Cybertron yet it's still supose to be a continuation from Energon.

As you said Cybertron was not written to be part of the other 2 show's.Hasbro re-wrote some of the scripts in order to connect Cybertron and make a Trilligy but the extent of the rewritting could only go so far.

They had to make sure that any thing they changed still fit the over all plot of the episode in question and since the humans not being awaer of TF's was intracal to those episodes they could not re-write the episode enough to fix that problem nor could the cut out 1/4 of each of those episodes.

So the fult in Cybertron case is Hasbro not going the route that Takara went.

I think I covered everyting... except the plot holes, still trying to find something big enough to cover them up.

To me it looks like you covered nothing at all.

[Dead Metal]

Wasn't Cybertron soposed to be the continuation of Energon, but GONZO just took it a completely different route, cos they like to do things there way?
Didn't the explanation for the rewrite say that on the end they found out that Unicron's death had coused a shift in reality, similar to what happened in House of M?


Dude, Saber Prime, I my self have thought of a way of squeezing animated into G1, saying that Ratchet is just someone who took G1 Rathcet's name to honor his dead friend. But I just stopped trying it as I noticed that there were still to many things that will never match + the creators said it was a new take!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Wasn't Cybertron soposed to be the continuation of Energon, but GONZO just took it a completely different route, cos they like to do things there way?

I thought it was Takara that made the desision to go a different way then Hasbro wanted but the basic's are still the same.

Didn't the explanation for the rewrite say that on the end they found out that Unicron's death had coused a shift in reality, similar to what happened in House of M?

This I have not heard but that would be a "in show" explaination the real one is that they F'ed up.

Dude, Saber Prime, I my self have thought of a way of squeezing animated into G1, saying that Ratchet is just someone who took G1 Rathcet's name to honor his dead friend. But I just stopped trying it as I noticed that there were still to many things that will never match + the creators said it was a new take!

Thats been my point.The fact is that if it werent for that G1 footage they used we wouldnt even be having this debate.

With out those history tapes none of the other G1 nods would amount to anything worth debating.

And even with those tapes its plain to see that if Hasbro really wanted to establish a connection with G1 all they had to do was show a one scene with earth.....or a human.....or 1 G1 character in robot mode that the story does not imply was already there.

The only one's they showed was Megatron and he's suposed to be there and Dion who has long been thought to be the bot that becomes Ultra Magnus in the fandom.

Here are some facts on the issue.

The creators said it was a new take on Transformers.

The promo add's for the serries ,voiced by Peter Cullin, said it was a fresh start for the Transformers.

And there is not one peace of evedence that ,can be said ,links animated to G1 that does not created some conflict with what we already know to be G1 history

[Saber Prime]

G1 History is conflicting all by itself.

Megatron was built on a Quintesson assembly line.

The Constructicons built Megatron.

Megatron Built the Constructicons.

Megatron Reprogramed the Constructicons.

Vector Sigma gives life to all Cybertronians... except that all of the Transformers built on Earth before Vector Sigma were given life without it.

The Matrix doesn't exsist till the movie.

Then throw in Beast Wars and the Matrix is something entirly different and the thing in Prime's chest is just a holding case for his Spark.

Transformers has never really been consistant with itself. Just face it. Plot holes can't be used to dissprove anything.

Personally every time a plot hole appears in Transformers for me that creates a whole new series all by itself. I use to try and fill plot holes but that caused my head to exsplode. When it got put back togeather I just choose to accept each Plot Hole as it's own continuam.

Sence Animated did use G1 footage it's tied itself to G1 weather it wants to or not. It's just a different take on G1 where maybe they never went to Earth.

So there are at least 8 different continuams for G1 alone.

[Dead Metal]

Here's my source Sto:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Cybe ... anchise%29

[Tekka]

Did anyone else notice in episode one when the Autobots are reformatting themselves, Bulkhead is too huge to get inside the chamber but still ends up reformatted anyway?

...It made me giggle.

[Jeysie]

The real question is why even try? You're grasping at straws trying to connect these series. Why? Can't you just enjoy this as a new continuation? Why wrack your brain over something that was nothing more than fan wankage?

Quoted for truth, man. I guess it is just an innate need of geekiness to want everything to fit together neatly. Just sometimes we forget to turn it off for the sake of our sanity.

At any rate... Professor Sumdac didn't seem to recogognize the Autobots either despite the fact he's had a cybertronian locked up in his lab for the last 50 years.

He did say that the Autobot's were very familer. To me thats recogognize them.

No plot hole there. Sumdac said that because he had Megatron's head and arm, so the Autobots reminded him of *Megatron*. To a human, all Cybertronians are going to look similar at first.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

G1 History is conflicting all by itself.

I'll give you that.

Megatron was built on a Quintesson assembly line.

This was never showen.

The Constructicons built Megatron.

This was never really said but the animation did imply it but that episode was full of animation errors.

Megatron Built the Constructicons.

Megatron Reprogramed the Constructicons.

Eazily fixed if you dont try to take the dialog to literaly.

Vector Sigma gives life to all Cybertronians... except that all of the Transformers built on Earth before Vector Sigma were given life without it.

Well there were only 5 that can !00% be said to have been built on earth.

The Matrix doesn't exsist till the movie.

Maybe there was no need to see it.

Then throw in Beast Wars and the Matrix is something entirly different and the thing in Prime's chest is just a holding case for his Spark.

They didnt say that it was just a holding case for Primes Spark.The way I see it the two are intertwined.

Transformers has never really been consistant with itself. Just face it. Plot holes can't be used to dissprove anything.

Yeah but its not a plot hole.The creaters said it was a fresh start and so did all the promo add's

Personally every time a plot hole appears in Transformers for me that creates a whole new series all by itself. I use to try and fill plot holes but that caused my head to exsplode. When it got put back togeather I just choose to accept each Plot Hole as it's own continuam.

Funny

Sence Animated did use G1 footage it's tied itself to G1 weather it wants to or not. It's just a different take on G1 where maybe they never went to Earth.

So you just admited that its not Animated is not connected to the same G1 as the original G1 toon.So ani Ratchet is not G1 Ratchet.

Look at best this is a re-boot of G1 but even that makes it a different contiuity then the original toon.

All the history footage proves is that both G1 and Animated share a simular past.But almost all of the TF universe's share some eliments of G1's past history.

So there are at least 8 different continuams for G1 alone.

Not sure how your getting that number but yes there are quite a few G1 universe's.....I can name at least 10.