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News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:09 pm

AcademyofDrX wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
AcademyofDrX wrote:
Emerje wrote:Exactly. Movie designs used in the movies tend to belong to studios so the only way Hasbro can do non-movie line figures with them is either original designs or movie inspired redesigns that aren't all that accurate.
Emerje

I can't imagine that's true. I could see if there were real-world vehicle licensing issues, but where is this idea coming from?

Edit: I guess I could also imagine that Hasbro couldn't license out movie figures to FunPub, but I can't imagine any reason that Hasbro could use movie character designs in, say, Studio Series but not Legacy. SS and Buzzworthy Bumblebee are both lines that mix movie and non-movie characters, since SS86 is independent of Paramount.

It's a combination of Paramount licensing the robot mode designs, and the car manufacturers licensing the models to Hasbro, and each comes with a set of Terms of Use, just like any license.

Is the suggestion here that Hasbro is giving Paramount a cut of all their movie toy sales? I don't know what was in the contract, but this doesn't make sense as a general principle of derivative works IP as I understand it, "robot mode designs" would not be protected material separate from Hasbro's rights to the characters. As a point of comparison, IDW designs are not the property of IDW or comics artists, but become Hasbro's property to use as they see fit.

The movie itself is Paramount's property, certain assets involved in the production would be too, but "robot mode designs" wouldn't make sense to be a property for the licensee when the licensor's whole business is selling robot toys. I would really like to see some primary source info to back this up. I'm also not aware of any case of a licensor being prohibited from using new designs from a licensee, though there have been uncertified rumors of that with Masters of the Universe and She-Ra. I would be shocked if that's not cared for in modern contracts.

I don't know the specifics, but the Live Action Movies can be considered a group project, with certain companies maintaining copyright of certain aspects of that project. The overview of who owns what can be quite convoluted, but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs. Because of licensing, everything legal turns into a spaghetti bowl with everyone tied together: Paramount can't do anything with the movie without Hasbro's say-so, and Hasbro can't release toys based on the movies without Paramount's say-so.

News Credits: 22 · by **Rodimus Prime** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:24 pm

grimdragon2001 wrote:
JomasterII wrote:Goddamn it, Takara robbed us of Femboy representation by making Road Rocket a kunoichi.

Eh, intent and interpretation are two different things. I'm not seeing the female in Road Rocket's figure and there is fiction depicting Road Rocket as male, so he'll be a guy on my shelves.

Same here, in my headcanon Road Rocket will be G1 Override until we get an actual update to Override (as well as Dogfight and Backstreet!) since we're getting Crankcase, I'm optimistic about the other Triggercons as well as the Triggerbots.

And bring on the Firecons! :michaelbay:

News Credits: 17 · by **AcademyofDrX** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:26 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:[... but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs....

I don't agree with that, but we can agree to disagree. It's complicated, it's governed by legal agreements none of us will ever see, and we can only speculate on the impacts like if these considerations factor into product decisions like non-movie movie characters.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:27 pm

AcademyofDrX wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:[... but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs....

I don't agree with that, but we can agree to disagree. It's complicated, it's governed by legal agreements none of us will ever see, and we can only speculate on the impacts like if these considerations factor into product decisions like non-movie movie characters.

I have a feeling it will be a fun discussion in a different time and place.

News Credits: 6 · by **RodimusPrimeUkraine1** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:21 pm

Razorbeast88 wrote:I was on the fence about cosmos but after watching the review, I definitely want him

I think I may be needing mental help, because I'm the only one who isnt over the moon about cosmos. Honestly, I'm more excited for lio convoy. Maybe it's because I spent way too much on a tr cosmos... :-(

CRAP EBAY!!!!!!!

News Credits: 440 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:22 pm

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:I was on the fence about cosmos but after watching the review, I definitely want him

I think I may be needing mental help, because I'm the only one who isnt over the moon about cosmos. Honestly, I'm more excited for lio convoy. Maybe it's because I spent way too much on a tr cosmos... CRAP EBAY!!!!!!!

You're not alone. I'm mostly indifferent towards Cosmos too.

News Credits: 17 · by **AcademyofDrX** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:37 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:I was on the fence about cosmos but after watching the review, I definitely want him

I think I may be needing mental help, because I'm the only one who isnt over the moon about cosmos. Honestly, I'm more excited for lio convoy. Maybe it's because I spent way too much on a tr cosmos... CRAP EBAY!!!!!!!
You're not alone. I'm mostly indifferent towards Cosmos too.

I have a feeling that eBay TR Cosmos futures are going to plummet. I might end up just throwing mine in the trash, even though it's a perfectly fine figure.

News Credits: 65 · by **Wolfman Jake** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:39 pm

None of the Velocitron figures have been spotted in-store at U.S. Walmarts yet, correct? I assume there must be a street date on them of 8/1/2022 or thereabouts. Does anyone know for certain? I’m going to have to start checking Walmart stores daily if I’m to find Cosmos, because he’s the only one that was sold out before I got the alert that preorders were live.

News Credits: 17 · by **AcademyofDrX** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:48 pm

Wolfman Jake wrote:None of the Velocitron figures have been spotted in-store at U.S. Walmarts yet, correct? I assume there must be a street date on them of 8/1/2022 or thereabouts. Does anyone know for certain? I’m going to have to start checking Walmart stores daily if I’m to find Cosmos, because he’s the only one that was sold out before I got the alert that preorders were live.

Not a bad idea, but I would also recommend staking out the Pulse page. Many partner exclusives from Walmart and Amazon will have small quantities available after Pulse gets stock and fulfills pre-orders. Even the Terrorsaur pre-order came back in eventually. It will most likely happen much later than the Walmart retail availability, so that might just be a Plan B option.

News Credits: 6 · by **RodimusPrimeUkraine1** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:55 pm

AcademyofDrX wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:I was on the fence about cosmos but after watching the review, I definitely want him

I think I may be needing mental help, because I'm the only one who isnt over the moon about cosmos. Honestly, I'm more excited for lio convoy. Maybe it's because I spent way too much on a tr cosmos... CRAP EBAY!!!!!!!
You're not alone. I'm mostly indifferent towards Cosmos too.

I have a feeling that eBay TR Cosmos futures are going to plummet. I might end up just throwing mine in the trash, even though it's a perfectly fine figure.

If they do, sucks for me. I'm pretty blessed, but when it comes to potp trilogy legends figures, I end up paying more than I should.

News Credits: 65 · by **Wolfman Jake** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:40 pm

AcademyofDrX wrote:
Wolfman Jake wrote:None of the Velocitron figures have been spotted in-store at U.S. Walmarts yet, correct? I assume there must be a street date on them of 8/1/2022 or thereabouts. Does anyone know for certain? I’m going to have to start checking Walmart stores daily if I’m to find Cosmos, because he’s the only one that was sold out before I got the alert that preorders were live.

Not a bad idea, but I would also recommend staking out the Pulse page. Many partner exclusives from Walmart and Amazon will have small quantities available after Pulse gets stock and fulfills pre-orders. Even the Terrorsaur pre-order came back in eventually. It will most likely happen much later than the Walmart retail availability, so that might just be a Plan B option.

Believe me, I’m doing that too. Well, as long as you can still get Plan B in the U.S. at least.

News Credits: 1641 · by **D-Maximal_Primal** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:43 pm

I only just realized that Legacy Velocitron Blurr will actually work pretty well as Cyberverse Blurr, and now I know where that figure will be going once I have him. Re-appropriation of a figure where I already own one of that character has been fun for some Cyberverse members of the shelf.

News Credits: 440 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:55 pm

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I only just realized that Legacy Velocitron Blurr will actually work pretty well as Cyberverse Blurr, and now I know where that figure will be going once I have him. Re-appropriation of a figure where I already own one of that character has been fun for some Cyberverse members of the shelf.

Don't forget to paint him solid brown when you do.

News Credits: 6 · by **RodimusPrimeUkraine1** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:20 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I only just realized that Legacy Velocitron Blurr will actually work pretty well as Cyberverse Blurr, and now I know where that figure will be going once I have him. Re-appropriation of a figure where I already own one of that character has been fun for some Cyberverse members of the shelf.
Don't forget to paint him solid brown when you do.

Cyberverse has a place in me, but not much my shelf. Blurr I dont care for though, but I'd like a shadow striker.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:28 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I only just realized that Legacy Velocitron Blurr will actually work pretty well as Cyberverse Blurr, and now I know where that figure will be going once I have him. Re-appropriation of a figure where I already own one of that character has been fun for some Cyberverse members of the shelf.
Don't forget to paint him solid brown when you do.

That's just evil :-P

News Credits: 6 · by **RodimusPrimeUkraine1** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:34 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I only just realized that Legacy Velocitron Blurr will actually work pretty well as Cyberverse Blurr, and now I know where that figure will be going once I have him. Re-appropriation of a figure where I already own one of that character has been fun for some Cyberverse members of the shelf.
Don't forget to paint him solid brown when you do.

That's just evil

Indeed.

News Credits: 4548 · by **william-james88** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:03 pm

The velocitron line has not been spotted yet in US walmarts

MyFigureCollection.net collection · by **Emerje** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:57 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
AcademyofDrX wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:[... but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs....

I don't agree with that, but we can agree to disagree. It's complicated, it's governed by legal agreements none of us will ever see, and we can only speculate on the impacts like if these considerations factor into product decisions like non-movie movie characters.

I have a feeling it will be a fun discussion in a different time and place.

Probably, but while we're talking about it I just want to point out that we have proof that modern figures are still made under Paramount's license. Look no further than the legal information on Crossover Ultimate X-Spanse.

: X-Spanse.JPG (30.67 KiB) Viewed 3703 times

As heavily altered as that figure is it's still a SS Jetfire retool and still requires a Dreamworks copyright. Of course it also has Disney and Marvel copyrights and the very obvious Lockheed Martin one. And people wondered why that figure was so expensive. :lol:

william-james88 wrote:The velocitron line has not been spotted yet in US walmarts

I'm more surprised they haven't shown up in Asia yet.

Emerje

News Credits: 317 · by **chuckdawg1999** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:50 pm

So, even though I had to wait a few days to place the order, between Walmart.com and Pulse I was able to get all the Velocitron figures except for Cosmos. According to the interview, my only chance to get one in a reasonable length of time will involve money and/or violence for the sake of violence.

News Credits: 17 · by **AcademyofDrX** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:06 pm

Emerje wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
AcademyofDrX wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:[... but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs....

I don't agree with that, but we can agree to disagree. It's complicated, it's governed by legal agreements none of us will ever see, and we can only speculate on the impacts like if these considerations factor into product decisions like non-movie movie characters.

I have a feeling it will be a fun discussion in a different time and place.

Probably, but while we're talking about it I just want to point out that we have proof that modern figures are still made under Paramount's license. Look no further than the legal information on Crossover Ultimate X-Spanse.

X-Spanse.JPG

As heavily altered as that figure is it's still a SS Jetfire retool and still requires a Dreamworks copyright. Of course it also has Disney and Marvel copyrights and the very obvious Lockheed Martin one. And people wondered why that figure was so expensive.

william-james88 wrote:The velocitron line has not been spotted yet in US walmarts

I'm more surprised they haven't shown up in Asia yet.

Emerje

I don't think that's saying what I think you're saying. DreamWorks is the licensee for Lockheed Martin, which is the licensor. All that text says is that the Transformers movie producers have rights to use the Blackbird, it doesn't say anything about Hasbro's licensing relationship with DreamWorks. I mean, presumably someone's getting paid, but who knows how.

News Credits: 4548 · by **william-james88** » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:28 pm

chuckdawg1999 wrote:So, even though I had to wait a few days to place the order, between Walmart.com and Pulse I was able to get all the Velocitron figures except for Cosmos. According to the interview, my only chance to get one in a reasonable length of time will involve money and/or violence for the sake of violence.

You can still
A) find him in stores
B) cancel your pre-orders and just buy a case from Robot Kingdom (that's what a friend of mine did)

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:50 am

Greetings Seibertronians!

While the Velocitron line is Walmart exclusive in the US, here in the UK, it looks like Symths will be carrying the line, at retail at least.

This comes to us via fellow Seibertron user, CyclonusG1, who also shared proof in the way of Velocitron 500 Voyager Class Override!

They also say that so far the only stock Symths seem to have received is Override, Voyager Class Hauler and Deluxe Class Cosmos.

So UK Transformers fans, you ready to start hunting? Or are you giving this line a large swerve? Chime in with your thoughts below!

Don't forgot to share pictures of your latest hauls in the Energon Pub and stay tuned to Seibertron for all the latest news and reviews!

News Credits: 65 · by **Wolfman Jake** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:25 am

ZeroWolf wrote:They also say that so far the only stock Symths seem to have received is Override, Voyager Class Hauler and Deluxe Class Cosmos.

Are there solid cases of just Cosmos, then? That would be welcome news!

News Credits: 11 · by **CyclonusG1** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:43 am

Wolfman Jake wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:They also say that so far the only stock Symths seem to have received is Override, Voyager Class Hauler and Deluxe Class Cosmos.

Are there solid cases of just Cosmos, then? That would be welcome news!

Yes, we received solid cases of each figure. However, depending on where you are that might be different. Some retailers might have just ordered case assortments rather than just individual figures

MyFigureCollection.net collection · by **Emerje** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:43 am

AcademyofDrX wrote:
Emerje wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
AcademyofDrX wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:[... but we can agree Hasbro owns the toy designs and molds, and Paramount owns the movie itself and all assets thereof, including character designs....

I don't agree with that, but we can agree to disagree. It's complicated, it's governed by legal agreements none of us will ever see, and we can only speculate on the impacts like if these considerations factor into product decisions like non-movie movie characters.

I have a feeling it will be a fun discussion in a different time and place.

Probably, but while we're talking about it I just want to point out that we have proof that modern figures are still made under Paramount's license. Look no further than the legal information on Crossover Ultimate X-Spanse.

X-Spanse.JPG

As heavily altered as that figure is it's still a SS Jetfire retool and still requires a Dreamworks copyright. Of course it also has Disney and Marvel copyrights and the very obvious Lockheed Martin one. And people wondered why that figure was so expensive.

william-james88 wrote:The velocitron line has not been spotted yet in US walmarts

I'm more surprised they haven't shown up in Asia yet.

Emerje

I don't think that's saying what I think you're saying. DreamWorks is the licensee for Lockheed Martin, which is the licensor. All that text says is that the Transformers movie producers have rights to use the Blackbird, it doesn't say anything about Hasbro's licensing relationship with DreamWorks. I mean, presumably someone's getting paid, but who knows how.

I feel like Hasbro would have just bypassed Dreamworks all together and gotten the license straight from Lockheed Martin in that case. The fact that they still needed to keep legal info on the box for Dreamworks tells me they have some say in the use of the figures and their designs even when they're being used in another company's toy. I do take back what I said earlier about Paramount, though. Looking at some Studio Series boxes and brushing up on movie production info I realized a made a mistake in saying Paramount had right to the figures. Paramount is just the distributor for the films and nothing more. Dreamworks produced the first movies and they appear to have kept the design rights for those films (though Hasbro was on the production team, but not as a studio), but the rest of the movies were primarily produced by Hasbro Films/Allspark Pictures/Entertainment One, all (obviously) owned by Hasbro. So I mostly take back what I said about Hasbro not being able to use movie designs and characters outside of movie lines except for the first two movies, that was outdated information. And thinking about it, we already have a movie design that's crossed that boundary fully and without the name needing to be change for legal reasons like my previous Megatron example, Authentics Barricade.

Now that's a new mold I'd like to see on Velocitron (to pull things back on topic...).

Emerje