Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update
Saturday, January 28th, 2017 12:30PM CST
Categories: Site Articles, Editorials, Top ListsPosted by: william-james88 Views: 82,055
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Every two weeks, Seibertron.com brings you a Top 5 list related to all things Transformers written by me, your fellow editor. These are my opinions (just like movie or game reviews hosted by sites are still just the opinion of one person) so what matters most is what you guys think of the topic or list, and I hope to see your own lists or comments on omissions and ranking. Let's have fun! All previous lists can be found here.
Top 5 Transformers Toys Better Than Their Updates
Let's face it, older Transformers toys can't really be compared to the modern toys due to the evolution in transformation, getting far more complex, the sleekness of the robot modes and the improved articulation. But that's fine, it doesn't take anything away from the older toys, it just makes us appreciate them in their own nostalgic bubble for the fun toys they were (and still are). We can respect the legacy of the original toys and have fun with the updates, be it in the Masterpiece or Classics line. However, 2016 taught me that there are original toys that not only hold up but offer so much more than their updates, and which I would definitely recommend getting over their updates. I looked for others that fit the bill and made a list so let's get to it!
5. Beast Machines Tankor compared to Generations Tankor
I have already raved about the original Tankor toy on three seperate lists: the best tanks, the best cybertronian vehicles and the best gimmicks since his double light piping gimmick is just too good, and that was just one of his 4 percfetly integrated gimicks which also included a spring loaded missile and optional twin buzzsaws which moved as you rolled him. He rightfully fits in all these lists since he is an excellent toy. The one thing he didn't do is look like the animation model, which plagued all Beast Machines toys, and that's it. I dont know about you, but that takes nothing away from this toy beign awesome. Proof of that comes with the update Tankor got in the Generations line. That toy looked show accurate and that was it. The articulation didnt seem to evolve in 15 years, all the gimicks were gone, the transformation was simplified (to reflect the show) and he just felt so light. And his accuracy was automatically gone when put next to any other figure since he was made into a puny deluxe, dwarfing him in size from what he looked like on the show. But that generations toy still has a place, I bought a few and made them the drones accompanying the awesome original Tankor toy.
4. G1 Megatron compared to MP05 Masterpiece Megatron
I have a hard time understanding what they were going for with the initial MP release. It's as if all they did was just make the G1 toy insanely more complex, fragile and annoying to transform. This reminds me of a bad third party toy. I am talking about the ones which look different from the animation model to avoid being sued and then overly engineer something to the point where it's not fun to transform and far too fragile to do so. So you just transform it once (or never if it's in robot mode) and then leave it on a shelf forever, hoping it doesn't fall since it doesn't stand too well. I am not saying the G1 toy is better at everything, but MP 05 doesn't improve anything about the G1 toy. It doesn't look more like Megatron than the G1 toy did, nor does it have better proportions (those legs, yeeesh). I made a chart to show you what I mean:
So all in all, I personally think the G1 toy is better. It's more fun to transform and has greater playability in both modes. Plus the gun mode is far more accurate to the actual gun size wise. If you had to choose between these two figures, you are better off with the G1 toy (they cost about the same anyway).
3. Beast Wars Cheetor compared to [url=[url=/transformers-toys/gallery/classics-universe/cheetor/1677/1/]Universe - Classics 2.0 Cheetor[/url]
The pictures just work better than my words here. It looks like they just made it different for the sake of making him look different without thinking of making him visually appealing. The original was well articulated already and looked closer to the animation model, which the Universe toy doesn't look even close to, so I don't really know what purpose the Universe toys serves or who would want it.
2. G1 1986 Sky Lynx compared to Generations Combiner Wars Sky Lynx
I think Generations Skylynx has a really cool looking combiner torso, I can't deny that. It acts as a fun what if, for sure, but that toy cannot in anyway replace the G1 toy as a decent representation of Skylynx in a collection (unlike Titans Return Blurr, who is a great update regardless of the gimmick he comes with). As described two weeks ago, there is a great history regarding G1 Skylynx and how it is different from every other Transformer toy, like his robot mode being the combination of two beasts . There is a ton of play value with that G1 toy, with it having 6 separate modes: Shuttle, transport rig, shuttle on transport rig, bird, lynx, mecha dinosaur. Also, the size works well for a toy that turns into a space shuttle. The update reduces the impressive size and while gutting the electronics feature is expected and not the worst thing, it removes the fact that he is the combination of two beasts. We don't get a separate Lynx component (which kind of blows when your toy is called Sky Lynx) and instead of the unique combination reinvented, we just have him turn into a combiner torso like every other voyager in the line. Or right, and it's a voyager, not the size I would expect for the magnificent skylynx (who transports Autobots through space).
1. G1 1987 Fortress Maximus compared to Generations Titans Return Fortress Maximus
My opinion here is very similar to what I said abut Skylynx regarding playability being gutted but it is augmented here due to this toy not even being an original mold and being stuck with random vestigial features of Metroplex. I think this quote that I found on the boards sums it up well:
You are not the only one Partholon. I know many say he has a great robot mode and that's how they will be keeping him, but that kind of defeats the point of him being a Transformer. The only kind of Transformer that makes him is an oversized action master. However, there is a silver lining. This lackluster release for what was once an iconic toy ends up bringing the original G1 toy back in the spotlight and lets it keep it's well earned place on the pedestal. There was no toy like G1 Fortress Maximus and now we know he cannot be defeated. No one has as glorious a base mode with as many fun playability features. And lucky us, since an Encore reissue of the original toy was released in very big numbers, owning the G1 toy is no longer a pipe dream. The G1 toy is now affordable and I strongly recommend it as it is one of the greatest Transformers toys of all time and definitely the number one toy which is better than its update.
Honourable Mentions:
I would like to mainly discuss the Titanium line here since that in general is my honorary mention. I dis have a Titanium toy on the list at first, it was Titanium Optimal Optimus. From a nice big toy, we get a small one with lame articulation and the lack of a Beast Mode (on a freaken Beast Wars character!). But then I saw that it didn't gel with the rest of the list. It didn't feel like Hasbro trying to update anything, just present characters in a different way. Kinda like the World's Smallest TFs line. They came after the G1 toys, but aren't trying to better them or update them, just present them differently (in this case, that means all die cast). That's how I feel about the Titanium line. Because or else, this whole list would be that line right? Like Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus who are missing modes and Soundwave, which doesnt hold a candle to the original. Even though they are legitimate updates, they don't feel to have the same intentions as the other ones on the list. At least to me.
Top 5 Transformers Toys Better Than Their Updates
Let's face it, older Transformers toys can't really be compared to the modern toys due to the evolution in transformation, getting far more complex, the sleekness of the robot modes and the improved articulation. But that's fine, it doesn't take anything away from the older toys, it just makes us appreciate them in their own nostalgic bubble for the fun toys they were (and still are). We can respect the legacy of the original toys and have fun with the updates, be it in the Masterpiece or Classics line. However, 2016 taught me that there are original toys that not only hold up but offer so much more than their updates, and which I would definitely recommend getting over their updates. I looked for others that fit the bill and made a list so let's get to it!
5. Beast Machines Tankor compared to Generations Tankor
I have already raved about the original Tankor toy on three seperate lists: the best tanks, the best cybertronian vehicles and the best gimmicks since his double light piping gimmick is just too good, and that was just one of his 4 percfetly integrated gimicks which also included a spring loaded missile and optional twin buzzsaws which moved as you rolled him. He rightfully fits in all these lists since he is an excellent toy. The one thing he didn't do is look like the animation model, which plagued all Beast Machines toys, and that's it. I dont know about you, but that takes nothing away from this toy beign awesome. Proof of that comes with the update Tankor got in the Generations line. That toy looked show accurate and that was it. The articulation didnt seem to evolve in 15 years, all the gimicks were gone, the transformation was simplified (to reflect the show) and he just felt so light. And his accuracy was automatically gone when put next to any other figure since he was made into a puny deluxe, dwarfing him in size from what he looked like on the show. But that generations toy still has a place, I bought a few and made them the drones accompanying the awesome original Tankor toy.
4. G1 Megatron compared to MP05 Masterpiece Megatron
I have a hard time understanding what they were going for with the initial MP release. It's as if all they did was just make the G1 toy insanely more complex, fragile and annoying to transform. This reminds me of a bad third party toy. I am talking about the ones which look different from the animation model to avoid being sued and then overly engineer something to the point where it's not fun to transform and far too fragile to do so. So you just transform it once (or never if it's in robot mode) and then leave it on a shelf forever, hoping it doesn't fall since it doesn't stand too well. I am not saying the G1 toy is better at everything, but MP 05 doesn't improve anything about the G1 toy. It doesn't look more like Megatron than the G1 toy did, nor does it have better proportions (those legs, yeeesh). I made a chart to show you what I mean:
So all in all, I personally think the G1 toy is better. It's more fun to transform and has greater playability in both modes. Plus the gun mode is far more accurate to the actual gun size wise. If you had to choose between these two figures, you are better off with the G1 toy (they cost about the same anyway).
3. Beast Wars Cheetor compared to [url=[url=/transformers-toys/gallery/classics-universe/cheetor/1677/1/]Universe - Classics 2.0 Cheetor[/url]
The pictures just work better than my words here. It looks like they just made it different for the sake of making him look different without thinking of making him visually appealing. The original was well articulated already and looked closer to the animation model, which the Universe toy doesn't look even close to, so I don't really know what purpose the Universe toys serves or who would want it.
2. G1 1986 Sky Lynx compared to Generations Combiner Wars Sky Lynx
I think Generations Skylynx has a really cool looking combiner torso, I can't deny that. It acts as a fun what if, for sure, but that toy cannot in anyway replace the G1 toy as a decent representation of Skylynx in a collection (unlike Titans Return Blurr, who is a great update regardless of the gimmick he comes with). As described two weeks ago, there is a great history regarding G1 Skylynx and how it is different from every other Transformer toy, like his robot mode being the combination of two beasts . There is a ton of play value with that G1 toy, with it having 6 separate modes: Shuttle, transport rig, shuttle on transport rig, bird, lynx, mecha dinosaur. Also, the size works well for a toy that turns into a space shuttle. The update reduces the impressive size and while gutting the electronics feature is expected and not the worst thing, it removes the fact that he is the combination of two beasts. We don't get a separate Lynx component (which kind of blows when your toy is called Sky Lynx) and instead of the unique combination reinvented, we just have him turn into a combiner torso like every other voyager in the line. Or right, and it's a voyager, not the size I would expect for the magnificent skylynx (who transports Autobots through space).
1. G1 1987 Fortress Maximus compared to Generations Titans Return Fortress Maximus
My opinion here is very similar to what I said abut Skylynx regarding playability being gutted but it is augmented here due to this toy not even being an original mold and being stuck with random vestigial features of Metroplex. I think this quote that I found on the boards sums it up well:
partholon wrote:Am I the only one that finds it baffling that the G1 bot with probably the MOST guns has bugger all in this update?
It's just mad.
I do agree that his city mode sucks. I mean Jesus! And I dont see why they couldn't have added a flap to the ramps so they cover his hands in city mode and actually touch the ground. I get ya can say its aircraft landing strips in battlestation mode, but it just looks weak in city mode. If I get the guy I'm going with some of the fan modes to try and ape his original better- bar that mess around with the surperfluous joints to come up with something I think looks better myself as just having his battlesation mode do the splits isnt up to scratch.
I agree with what some have said about not giving a toss about electronic lights and sounds. I'm buying a transformer- the alt modes the most important thing to me, not some "whoop whooop" nonsense.
You are not the only one Partholon. I know many say he has a great robot mode and that's how they will be keeping him, but that kind of defeats the point of him being a Transformer. The only kind of Transformer that makes him is an oversized action master. However, there is a silver lining. This lackluster release for what was once an iconic toy ends up bringing the original G1 toy back in the spotlight and lets it keep it's well earned place on the pedestal. There was no toy like G1 Fortress Maximus and now we know he cannot be defeated. No one has as glorious a base mode with as many fun playability features. And lucky us, since an Encore reissue of the original toy was released in very big numbers, owning the G1 toy is no longer a pipe dream. The G1 toy is now affordable and I strongly recommend it as it is one of the greatest Transformers toys of all time and definitely the number one toy which is better than its update.
Can someone lend me a gun?
Honourable Mentions:
I would like to mainly discuss the Titanium line here since that in general is my honorary mention. I dis have a Titanium toy on the list at first, it was Titanium Optimal Optimus. From a nice big toy, we get a small one with lame articulation and the lack of a Beast Mode (on a freaken Beast Wars character!). But then I saw that it didn't gel with the rest of the list. It didn't feel like Hasbro trying to update anything, just present characters in a different way. Kinda like the World's Smallest TFs line. They came after the G1 toys, but aren't trying to better them or update them, just present them differently (in this case, that means all die cast). That's how I feel about the Titanium line. Because or else, this whole list would be that line right? Like Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus who are missing modes and Soundwave, which doesnt hold a candle to the original. Even though they are legitimate updates, they don't feel to have the same intentions as the other ones on the list. At least to me.
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Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855416)
Posted by Targetmaster Kup on January 28th, 2017 @ 12:47pm CST
Posted by Targetmaster Kup on January 28th, 2017 @ 12:47pm CST
I usually agree with a lot of these lists, but I have to disagree with every one of these. I think 5 better examples of superior original toy vs inferior upgrades would include:
- G1 Perceptor vs. Reveal the Shield Perceptor
- G1 Dinobots vs. Stupid Movie Dinobots
- G1 Insecticons vs Prime Beast Hunters Insecticons
- G1 Sideswipe vs. RiD Sideswipe
- G1 Wheeljack vs. Combiner Wars Wheeljack
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855422)
Posted by RAR on January 28th, 2017 @ 12:58pm CST
Posted by RAR on January 28th, 2017 @ 12:58pm CST
Speaking of fort Max - remembering how the original had those launch cradles and the ability to fold the arm ramps up.
I think the perfect part to fix his ramp issue is to make a part that replaces the ramp connection to the upper arm has the sliding car launcher on it and also allow the old ramps to fit on the stub end and fold up. so you still use the ramps he came with but you pop them off and move them.
There are likely a lot of examples where a weaker toys was released after a better original - a prize example of that would be the Transformers Prime 1st Edition line being mostly better than the RID-12 that replaced it.
And some would say that RID-12 is better than the Arms Micron toys derived from them (in many instances).
I do personally have more fun with the RID-12 Arcee than the 1st edition version though.
---
I would also point out that Skylynx still has a lynx mode - they just didn't make it official just as he also has a dinobird mode too.
I think the perfect part to fix his ramp issue is to make a part that replaces the ramp connection to the upper arm has the sliding car launcher on it and also allow the old ramps to fit on the stub end and fold up. so you still use the ramps he came with but you pop them off and move them.
There are likely a lot of examples where a weaker toys was released after a better original - a prize example of that would be the Transformers Prime 1st Edition line being mostly better than the RID-12 that replaced it.
And some would say that RID-12 is better than the Arms Micron toys derived from them (in many instances).
I do personally have more fun with the RID-12 Arcee than the 1st edition version though.
---
I would also point out that Skylynx still has a lynx mode - they just didn't make it official just as he also has a dinobird mode too.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855427)
Posted by Agent 53 on January 28th, 2017 @ 1:04pm CST
Posted by Agent 53 on January 28th, 2017 @ 1:04pm CST
I was going to buy generations fort max but i have to admit that other than the rebirth style titan master and articulation he didn't look better, or even as good as the G1 version. I mean I've even seen people make better customs of metroplex as Fort Max.
Also it occurred to me that he was among the characters up for the vote that made the Star Saber masterpiece. Therefore takara were willing to make a masterpice fort max, something that would likely be superior to anything in generations, not least because while the other toylines are aimed more towards kids while the masterpieces are aimed towards the more serious fans like us.
Therefore while unlikely I would not outright say that it is impossible that, possibly for the 35th anniversary in 2 years, takara MAY bless us with a masterpiece fortress maximus.
I hope.
Touch wood.
Fingers Crossed.
Also it occurred to me that he was among the characters up for the vote that made the Star Saber masterpiece. Therefore takara were willing to make a masterpice fort max, something that would likely be superior to anything in generations, not least because while the other toylines are aimed more towards kids while the masterpieces are aimed towards the more serious fans like us.
Therefore while unlikely I would not outright say that it is impossible that, possibly for the 35th anniversary in 2 years, takara MAY bless us with a masterpiece fortress maximus.
I hope.
Touch wood.
Fingers Crossed.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855430)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on January 28th, 2017 @ 1:16pm CST
See, the Insecticon and Sideswipe ones are unfair. They aren't meant to be updates of their G1 character; they are meant to be wholly different characters.
I think the wave 4 and 6 bots are not very good examples of updates wither cause, except for Ironhide, they all have pretty good classics toys that people like more.
But I definitely think Fort Max should have been handled better. the G1 toy may look derpier in robot mode to me, but he had guns and alt modes.
Also, I think G1 Gnaw is better than his update. The TR one just looks bad in robot mode, despite the adorable Sharkticon mode, which is how i keep him
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on January 28th, 2017 @ 1:16pm CST
Nik Hero wrote:I usually agree with a lot of these lists, but I have to disagree with every one of these. I think 5 better examples of superior original toy vs inferior upgrades would include:
- G1 Perceptor vs. Reveal the Shield Perceptor
- G1 Dinobots vs. Stupid Movie Dinobots
- G1 Insecticons vs Prime Beast Hunters Insecticons
- G1 Sideswipe vs. RiD Sideswipe
- G1 Wheeljack vs. Combiner Wars Wheeljack
See, the Insecticon and Sideswipe ones are unfair. They aren't meant to be updates of their G1 character; they are meant to be wholly different characters.
I think the wave 4 and 6 bots are not very good examples of updates wither cause, except for Ironhide, they all have pretty good classics toys that people like more.
But I definitely think Fort Max should have been handled better. the G1 toy may look derpier in robot mode to me, but he had guns and alt modes.
Also, I think G1 Gnaw is better than his update. The TR one just looks bad in robot mode, despite the adorable Sharkticon mode, which is how i keep him
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855453)
Posted by Deadput on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:31pm CST
The Movie Dinobots are not even the supposed to be updated or the same characters as the original G1 guys so that doesn't count.
The Prime insecticons don't even have toys besides a legends size figure who is not even the same character in anyway to the original guys and your comparing three characters to one how is that fair?
Rid Sideswipe is a bad toy yes but he is not G1 Sideswipe either why are you even listing this as such in the first place.
Posted by Deadput on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:31pm CST
Nik Hero wrote:I usually agree with a lot of these lists, but I have to disagree with every one of these. I think 5 better examples of superior original toy vs inferior upgrades would include:
- G1 Perceptor vs. Reveal the Shield Perceptor
- G1 Dinobots vs. Stupid Movie Dinobots
- G1 Insecticons vs Prime Beast Hunters Insecticons
- G1 Sideswipe vs. RiD Sideswipe
- G1 Wheeljack vs. Combiner Wars Wheeljack
The Movie Dinobots are not even the supposed to be updated or the same characters as the original G1 guys so that doesn't count.
The Prime insecticons don't even have toys besides a legends size figure who is not even the same character in anyway to the original guys and your comparing three characters to one how is that fair?
Rid Sideswipe is a bad toy yes but he is not G1 Sideswipe either why are you even listing this as such in the first place.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855454)
Posted by ricemazter on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:34pm CST
Posted by ricemazter on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:34pm CST
Totally agree with the Tankor one, I remember thinking at the time that a repainted voyager roadrunner from the same line would have made a better Tankor than the deluxe.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855456)
Posted by Kurona on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:41pm CST
Posted by Kurona on January 28th, 2017 @ 2:41pm CST
I personally disagree with Sky Lynx on the grounds that it's not supposed to be a re-creation of the G1 toy or do what it done - it's very clearly going for something different; in that it, of course, is a Sky Lynx that can combine.
I feel a lot of people rag on him for that which is unfair when, to combine, there likely isn't a way to incorporate his original separation gimmick. To me it's like trying to argue against CW Prowl or Trailbreaker for not being accurate representations or updates of the characters; that's not the point. They're supposed to be versions of the characters that you can combine rather than something that can stand on your CHUG shelf next to Classics Optimus and Universe Inferno (though admittedly some can actually work for that like Mirage and Hound, which is nice).
Of course, it all stems from the fact that this is the first update to Sky Lynx we've ever had. If there was a proper Leader Class update first that kept the separation gimmick and impressive size, I doubt many people would have a problem with this one. So to me the only real debate is whether or not a proper update should in every case be given to a character before making a version that has a new gimmick like combination. While I understand that stance; I simply feel it's too limiting on play value and uniqueness in a toyline (especially in a toyline that re-used molds as much as CW; Sky Lynx being so amazingly different from everything else gave a real breath of fresh air) and is simply a symptom of impatience. We'll get a proper update eventually, so while this might not be ideal for now, enjoy that Sky Lynx can combine with four random autobots to become a huge badass cat god.
Generally agree with everything else on your list though. But I'd also like to add that Generations Tankor also retroactively ends up with another place in a collection; being one of the regular side characters in the Windblade comics.
I feel a lot of people rag on him for that which is unfair when, to combine, there likely isn't a way to incorporate his original separation gimmick. To me it's like trying to argue against CW Prowl or Trailbreaker for not being accurate representations or updates of the characters; that's not the point. They're supposed to be versions of the characters that you can combine rather than something that can stand on your CHUG shelf next to Classics Optimus and Universe Inferno (though admittedly some can actually work for that like Mirage and Hound, which is nice).
Of course, it all stems from the fact that this is the first update to Sky Lynx we've ever had. If there was a proper Leader Class update first that kept the separation gimmick and impressive size, I doubt many people would have a problem with this one. So to me the only real debate is whether or not a proper update should in every case be given to a character before making a version that has a new gimmick like combination. While I understand that stance; I simply feel it's too limiting on play value and uniqueness in a toyline (especially in a toyline that re-used molds as much as CW; Sky Lynx being so amazingly different from everything else gave a real breath of fresh air) and is simply a symptom of impatience. We'll get a proper update eventually, so while this might not be ideal for now, enjoy that Sky Lynx can combine with four random autobots to become a huge badass cat god.
Generally agree with everything else on your list though. But I'd also like to add that Generations Tankor also retroactively ends up with another place in a collection; being one of the regular side characters in the Windblade comics.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855468)
Posted by Ultra Markus on January 28th, 2017 @ 3:07pm CST
Posted by Ultra Markus on January 28th, 2017 @ 3:07pm CST
its like they removed the playability and the fun factor to make the robot mode more articulate, i like the robot mode on TR fortress maximus i dont like the city mode and the spaceship mode is too floppy dont know what they were thinking with MP megatron 
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855482)
Posted by Burn on January 28th, 2017 @ 4:43pm CST
Posted by Burn on January 28th, 2017 @ 4:43pm CST
Tankor is wrong for this list as the Generations version is best compared to Beast Machines Tank Drone, NOT Tankor (the General)
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855484)
Posted by jungletron on January 28th, 2017 @ 4:45pm CST
Posted by jungletron on January 28th, 2017 @ 4:45pm CST
Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855485)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:10pm CST
Really? I actually think he was a pretty great success and had a more interactive city mode than fort max, and his vehicle mode actually made sense (a giant mobile, land-based, fortress-like, flat top) you could slap a whole army onto him at that scale!
I agree with this, I'd still love to get my hands on the universe variant of the tank drone
And I agree with Will, Fort Max was a complete failure on all levels, if I could find him for $50, I might bite, but I'd rather have several other figures before him, which really says something about how he fell flat on his face (and no, I wasn't talking about either of his 'transformations'
)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:10pm CST
jungletron wrote:Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Really? I actually think he was a pretty great success and had a more interactive city mode than fort max, and his vehicle mode actually made sense (a giant mobile, land-based, fortress-like, flat top) you could slap a whole army onto him at that scale!
Burn wrote:Tankor is wrong for this list as the Generations version is best compared to Beast Machines Tank Drone, NOT Tankor (the General)
I agree with this, I'd still love to get my hands on the universe variant of the tank drone
And I agree with Will, Fort Max was a complete failure on all levels, if I could find him for $50, I might bite, but I'd rather have several other figures before him, which really says something about how he fell flat on his face (and no, I wasn't talking about either of his 'transformations'
)
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855490)
Posted by kurthy on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:21pm CST
Posted by kurthy on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:21pm CST
No honorable mentions? No wonder Sky Lynx made the picture.
Very good list.
What about Doubledealer, Abominus, Jetfire (not by much, but at best breaks even), and Thunderwing for honorable mention?
And Kurona, would you say that CW Sky Lynx is a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape, or form?
Very good list.
What about Doubledealer, Abominus, Jetfire (not by much, but at best breaks even), and Thunderwing for honorable mention?
And Kurona, would you say that CW Sky Lynx is a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape, or form?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855496)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:41pm CST
Heck yeah, the cw one turns into a scramble city torso with a giant lion head for a face! I would put cw liokaiser on there, that actually feels like it belongs there - no matter how much I like him.
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 28th, 2017 @ 5:41pm CST
kurthy wrote:And Kurona, would you say that CW Sky Lynx is a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape, or form?
Heck yeah, the cw one turns into a scramble city torso with a giant lion head for a face! I would put cw liokaiser on there, that actually feels like it belongs there - no matter how much I like him.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855498)
Posted by serial_dirge on January 28th, 2017 @ 6:37pm CST
Posted by serial_dirge on January 28th, 2017 @ 6:37pm CST
I have to say I was a little surprised by the list, too. I like the CW Sky Lynx at least as well as the original. Sure, there are things I might tweak, but it's a solid figure, certainly not top-5 cringe worthy. Likewise, I like Titans Fort Max, and mine arrived with the electronics not working. I was toying around with sending it back, but realized I *never* leave batteries in after pushing noise/light buttons once, when I first get a Transformer, so probably not worth returning to BBTS. Anyway, yeah I would have liked Ramos to cover the hands, but it was still a decent toy, even if it isn't perfect.
I guess I tend to be less critical than most collectors. I don't care for the Masterpiece line, mostly due to the scale, but sticking with original vehicles isn't big on my list. I tend to prefer my Transformers in the "deluxe" scale, with a couple Voyager figs where appropriate. While I agree CW Sky Lynx could have been bigger, I was still pleased to add him to my collection and liked the entire CW line more than anything since Classics popped up. I have been pretty pleased with the Titans Return series, as well, though I would have been happy to get a few more CW figures first, like Sideswipe, for example.
Anyway, I think this topic is more subjective than many. I disliked the Generations Tankor figure (the original being one of my favorite figures). I thought the Cheetor and MP Megs figures were mediocre, but there have been a lot of updates I disliked significantly more. Titans leader Optimus comes to mind as a pretty lousy figure with terrible legs and a pretty shaky vehicle and base mode. Titans Soundwave and Blaster are mediocre. The voyage class Optimus (Octane) feels like a really forced recover (admittedly, before Octane came out). Anyway, I don't entirely disagree with the list in the sense that these updates are so-so, but they hardly seem list topping. *Shrugs*
I guess I tend to be less critical than most collectors. I don't care for the Masterpiece line, mostly due to the scale, but sticking with original vehicles isn't big on my list. I tend to prefer my Transformers in the "deluxe" scale, with a couple Voyager figs where appropriate. While I agree CW Sky Lynx could have been bigger, I was still pleased to add him to my collection and liked the entire CW line more than anything since Classics popped up. I have been pretty pleased with the Titans Return series, as well, though I would have been happy to get a few more CW figures first, like Sideswipe, for example.
Anyway, I think this topic is more subjective than many. I disliked the Generations Tankor figure (the original being one of my favorite figures). I thought the Cheetor and MP Megs figures were mediocre, but there have been a lot of updates I disliked significantly more. Titans leader Optimus comes to mind as a pretty lousy figure with terrible legs and a pretty shaky vehicle and base mode. Titans Soundwave and Blaster are mediocre. The voyage class Optimus (Octane) feels like a really forced recover (admittedly, before Octane came out). Anyway, I don't entirely disagree with the list in the sense that these updates are so-so, but they hardly seem list topping. *Shrugs*
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855508)
Posted by william-james88 on January 28th, 2017 @ 8:27pm CST
I can totally see why you disagree, I dont think I was clear in what I meant with my list. I was hoping the criteria would speak for itself through my selection but I was focusing on the same characters being redone, not just characters with the same name. Your Perceptor example is great though and works very well since that is the same character done differently. But RID Sideswipe is not G1 Sideswipe just like RID Bumblebee is not G1 Bumblebee or Movie Bumblebee. Its not like Hasbro is basing RID Sideswipe's toy design on the previous one and trying to reintroduce it. RID Sideswipe is not an Update to G1 Sideswipe but more of a reinterpretation of the character or quite possibly just another totally different character that just happens to have the same name (like Beast Wars Megatron and G1 Megatron).
Yeah, I can see that we have similar opinions but you just dont feel as strongly about them. Its wasnt the most obvious list and aside from MP Megatron and TR Fort Max, the rest werent as clear cut. I mostly picked examples where the articulation didnt matter as much since thats usually the best argument for a toy's age. Its a very grey area all around, but I thank you greatly for your list!
Haha, yeah. I couldnt think of any aside from those 5 that were as egregious for how much more we were getting from the initial release. most other update at least gave you something different instead of making me feel like I would miss out by choosing it over the original. But thanks to the helpful comments, there are others which could have been honourary mentions, like TR Power Master Optimus Prime.
Thanks!
Double Dealer is a great one! But the rest to me do break even. And I didnt really consider Beast Hunters Abominus to be an update until you mentioned it. He's not bad though, I actually found the designs really cool and the articulation is comparable. And I am sure that if the generations Thunderwing was bigger he wouldnt even be a contestant.
Please tell me more if possible. I thought at least his base mode was very close to the original.
I think saying that the gen Tankor cant compare to the General from Beast Machines is proof that the original is a much superior toy. But they both represent the exact same character, so its fair.
And I too want that Tank Drone, he looks cool.
That is my problem with Gen Skylynx. After all these years this was finally his time for an update in the line that is all about updating G1 toys for a new generation. And hasbro had to stick him with a gimmick. Now I wouldnt mind the gimmick if it didnt hinder anything, like with CW Prowl and Tralbreaker or TR Blurr which doesnt stop these characters from doing everything the G1 toys did (transform from vehicle to robot) and even gives them more stuff to do. But with Sky Lynx, we lose features and they get replaced. So if someone wants a toy to represent the G1 show in some way, then CW is not the way to go. But its not just that, the idea is that Sky Lynx is different from all the rest, he is unique. By making his only real update part of a gimick line, they remove that uniqueness and give him something many others have and definitely turn that G1 toy into a must have if you want to experience his original transforming gimick.
Posted by william-james88 on January 28th, 2017 @ 8:27pm CST
Nik Hero wrote:I usually agree with a lot of these lists, but I have to disagree with every one of these. I think 5 better examples of superior original toy vs inferior upgrades would include:
- G1 Perceptor vs. Reveal the Shield Perceptor
- G1 Dinobots vs. Stupid Movie Dinobots
- G1 Insecticons vs Prime Beast Hunters Insecticons
- G1 Sideswipe vs. RiD Sideswipe
- G1 Wheeljack vs. Combiner Wars Wheeljack
I can totally see why you disagree, I dont think I was clear in what I meant with my list. I was hoping the criteria would speak for itself through my selection but I was focusing on the same characters being redone, not just characters with the same name. Your Perceptor example is great though and works very well since that is the same character done differently. But RID Sideswipe is not G1 Sideswipe just like RID Bumblebee is not G1 Bumblebee or Movie Bumblebee. Its not like Hasbro is basing RID Sideswipe's toy design on the previous one and trying to reintroduce it. RID Sideswipe is not an Update to G1 Sideswipe but more of a reinterpretation of the character or quite possibly just another totally different character that just happens to have the same name (like Beast Wars Megatron and G1 Megatron).
serial_dirge wrote:Anyway, I don't entirely disagree with the list in the sense that these updates are so-so, but they hardly seem list topping. *Shrugs*
Yeah, I can see that we have similar opinions but you just dont feel as strongly about them. Its wasnt the most obvious list and aside from MP Megatron and TR Fort Max, the rest werent as clear cut. I mostly picked examples where the articulation didnt matter as much since thats usually the best argument for a toy's age. Its a very grey area all around, but I thank you greatly for your list!
kurthy wrote:No honorable mentions? No wonder Sky Lynx made the picture.
Haha, yeah. I couldnt think of any aside from those 5 that were as egregious for how much more we were getting from the initial release. most other update at least gave you something different instead of making me feel like I would miss out by choosing it over the original. But thanks to the helpful comments, there are others which could have been honourary mentions, like TR Power Master Optimus Prime.
Very good list.
Thanks!
What about Doubledealer, Abominus, Jetfire (not by much, but at best breaks even), and Thunderwing for honorable mention?
Double Dealer is a great one! But the rest to me do break even. And I didnt really consider Beast Hunters Abominus to be an update until you mentioned it. He's not bad though, I actually found the designs really cool and the articulation is comparable. And I am sure that if the generations Thunderwing was bigger he wouldnt even be a contestant.
jungletron wrote:Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Please tell me more if possible. I thought at least his base mode was very close to the original.
Hellscream9999 wrote:Burn wrote:Tankor is wrong for this list as the Generations version is best compared to Beast Machines Tank Drone, NOT Tankor (the General)
I agree with this, I'd still love to get my hands on the universe variant of the tank drone
I think saying that the gen Tankor cant compare to the General from Beast Machines is proof that the original is a much superior toy. But they both represent the exact same character, so its fair.
And I too want that Tank Drone, he looks cool.
Kurona wrote:Of course, it all stems from the fact that this is the first update to Sky Lynx we've ever had. If there was a proper Leader Class update first that kept the separation gimmick and impressive size, I doubt many people would have a problem with this one. So to me the only real debate is whether or not a proper update should in every case be given to a character before making a version that has a new gimmick like combination.
That is my problem with Gen Skylynx. After all these years this was finally his time for an update in the line that is all about updating G1 toys for a new generation. And hasbro had to stick him with a gimmick. Now I wouldnt mind the gimmick if it didnt hinder anything, like with CW Prowl and Tralbreaker or TR Blurr which doesnt stop these characters from doing everything the G1 toys did (transform from vehicle to robot) and even gives them more stuff to do. But with Sky Lynx, we lose features and they get replaced. So if someone wants a toy to represent the G1 show in some way, then CW is not the way to go. But its not just that, the idea is that Sky Lynx is different from all the rest, he is unique. By making his only real update part of a gimick line, they remove that uniqueness and give him something many others have and definitely turn that G1 toy into a must have if you want to experience his original transforming gimick.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855529)
Posted by jungletron on January 28th, 2017 @ 11:59pm CST
Posted by jungletron on January 28th, 2017 @ 11:59pm CST
Maybe it’s just me and we all know that it’s already been debated to death in the other threads, but I still prefer my Autobot City to have their east and west sections running parallel to each other and have the ramp touch the ground without resorting to third-party upgrades that nonetheless do not remedy the ‘giant-robot-doing-yoga’ look in base mode, which is also the problem with Generations Fort Max. The point is, with modern toy engineering and its sheer size I don’t think it’s too much to expect for Generations Metroplex to have been better designed. Sorry, but it is my honest opinion that G1 Metroplex is still better than his Generations version. Having said that, I admit that up to now I’m still on the fence as to getting Generations Metroplex considering that he’s now on clearance and Generations Trypticon is going to be released later this year though I truly wish that this debacle isn’t repeated. How could it? A spread-eagled T-Rex can’t possibly be that terrible.william-james88 wrote:jungletron wrote:Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Please tell me more if possible. I thought at least his base mode was very close to the original.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855530)
Posted by Noideaforaname on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:20am CST
Posted by Noideaforaname on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:20am CST
CW Sky Lynx somewhat makes up for the lack of splitting by having a neat winged Lynx mode (and bonus "CatDog" mode). It's not perfect, but it at least tries to capture some of the spirit of the original.
I think I'm more annoyed he didn't have his own dedicated Combiner team, though. They could've went crazy with the Space Shuttle theme and had rockets and rovers and whatnot, but no, they went and repainted yet another team of cars...
I remember people tried justifying Tankor's size, even going so far as to say he should be SMALLER. I'm sorry, but
I think I'm more annoyed he didn't have his own dedicated Combiner team, though. They could've went crazy with the Space Shuttle theme and had rockets and rovers and whatnot, but no, they went and repainted yet another team of cars...
I remember people tried justifying Tankor's size, even going so far as to say he should be SMALLER. I'm sorry, but
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855531)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:27am CST
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:27am CST
I can affirm that owning a G1 Megatron is a MUST for any TF fan. Sure, the bot mode look like a goblin. But it's so FUN to play with, and the transformation is pretty advanced even for today.
As for Fortmax, the G1 IS the superior toy. His transformation is way more complete than the TR and he's armed like MAD. Also, it have solid play value with an elevator, extra guns and vehicles, plus secret nook and crannies. The modern Titant Return is just Max lazying around on the ground. Still, the modern robot mode look way better.
As for Fortmax, the G1 IS the superior toy. His transformation is way more complete than the TR and he's armed like MAD. Also, it have solid play value with an elevator, extra guns and vehicles, plus secret nook and crannies. The modern Titant Return is just Max lazying around on the ground. Still, the modern robot mode look way better.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855532)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:39am CST
How about Sky Reign Beast Mode as shown in Baldigus Chapter 2? Nothing special if you've seen Safari Gaoh from ToQ-ger, but still...
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:39am CST
Noideaforaname wrote:CW Sky Lynx somewhat makes up for the lack of splitting by having a neat winged Lynx mode (and bonus "CatDog" mode). It's not perfect, but it at least tries to capture some of the spirit of the original.
I think I'm more annoyed he didn't have his own dedicated Combiner team, though. They could've went crazy with the Space Shuttle theme and had rockets and rovers and whatnot, but no, they went and repainted yet another team of cars...
How about Sky Reign Beast Mode as shown in Baldigus Chapter 2? Nothing special if you've seen Safari Gaoh from ToQ-ger, but still...
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855540)
Posted by Emerje on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:28am CST
Does it though? The original figure was a unique design not based on anything, while cartoon Tankor would be designed later. The original figure is a good figure simply because it's a good figure, but not being bound to cartoon accuracy gives it an unfair advantage. If you want a nice tank figure then sure, go for the original, but if you want a cartoon-accurate Tankor figure then it isn't even an option, you're either getting the original drone or the Generations mold (and probably loving them because they're both fun). It all depends on your criteria for a good Tankor figure.
Personally I'd call Gen Tankor better than the original just based on cartoon accuracy (though I enjoy all three quite a bit).
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:28am CST
william-james88 wrote:Hellscream9999 wrote:Burn wrote:Tankor is wrong for this list as the Generations version is best compared to Beast Machines Tank Drone, NOT Tankor (the General)
I agree with this, I'd still love to get my hands on the universe variant of the tank drone
I think saying that the gen Tankor cant compare to the General from Beast Machines is proof that the original is a much superior toy.
Does it though? The original figure was a unique design not based on anything, while cartoon Tankor would be designed later. The original figure is a good figure simply because it's a good figure, but not being bound to cartoon accuracy gives it an unfair advantage. If you want a nice tank figure then sure, go for the original, but if you want a cartoon-accurate Tankor figure then it isn't even an option, you're either getting the original drone or the Generations mold (and probably loving them because they're both fun). It all depends on your criteria for a good Tankor figure.
Personally I'd call Gen Tankor better than the original just based on cartoon accuracy (though I enjoy all three quite a bit).
Emerje
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855548)
Posted by fenrir72 on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:52am CST
Posted by fenrir72 on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:52am CST
Universe Countdown. What were they thinking?! Joke! It was just repurposed so he's not the actual modern version. 
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855549)
Posted by fenrir72 on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:55am CST
I agree with you with one aspect. G1 Metroplex had a gravity powered vehicle ramp launcher. Two extra vehicles/figure in Slammer and Sixgun. The remake lacked those.
Posted by fenrir72 on January 29th, 2017 @ 1:55am CST
jungletron wrote:Maybe it’s just me and we all know that it’s already been debated to death in the other threads, but I still prefer my Autobot City to have their east and west sections running parallel to each other and have the ramp touch the ground without resorting to third-party upgrades that nonetheless do not remedy the ‘giant-robot-doing-yoga’ look in base mode, which is also the problem with Generations Fort Max. The point is, with modern toy engineering and its sheer size I don’t think it’s too much to expect for Generations Metroplex to have been better designed. Sorry, but it is my honest opinion that G1 Metroplex is still better than his Generations version. Having said that, I admit that up to now I’m still on the fence as to getting Generations Metroplex considering that he’s now on clearance and Generations Trypticon is going to be released later this year though I truly wish that this debacle isn’t repeated. How could it? A spread-eagled T-Rex can’t possibly be that terrible.william-james88 wrote:jungletron wrote:Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Please tell me more if possible. I thought at least his base mode was very close to the original.
I agree with you with one aspect. G1 Metroplex had a gravity powered vehicle ramp launcher. Two extra vehicles/figure in Slammer and Sixgun. The remake lacked those.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855563)
Posted by Burn on January 29th, 2017 @ 2:47am CST
Just like to add that as far as I'm concerned, they're two different characters. Generations Tankor is more representative of Beast Machines Tank Drone.
If we're going to debate it because of the name ... well ... lets not forget Skinny Tankor
Posted by Burn on January 29th, 2017 @ 2:47am CST
Emerje wrote:william-james88 wrote:Hellscream9999 wrote:Burn wrote:Tankor is wrong for this list as the Generations version is best compared to Beast Machines Tank Drone, NOT Tankor (the General)
I agree with this, I'd still love to get my hands on the universe variant of the tank drone
I think saying that the gen Tankor cant compare to the General from Beast Machines is proof that the original is a much superior toy.
Does it though? The original figure was a unique design not based on anything, while cartoon Tankor would be designed later. The original figure is a good figure simply because it's a good figure, but not being bound to cartoon accuracy gives it an unfair advantage. If you want a nice tank figure then sure, go for the original, but if you want a cartoon-accurate Tankor figure then it isn't even an option, you're either getting the original drone or the Generations mold (and probably loving them because they're both fun). It all depends on your criteria for a good Tankor figure.
Personally I'd call Gen Tankor better than the original just based on cartoon accuracy (though I enjoy all three quite a bit).
Emerje
Just like to add that as far as I'm concerned, they're two different characters. Generations Tankor is more representative of Beast Machines Tank Drone.
If we're going to debate it because of the name ... well ... lets not forget Skinny Tankor
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855571)
Posted by Stuartmaximus on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:51am CST
As does TR Fort Max! coz the Hasbro one doesn't come with Gasket & Grommet/Cog(although i still think that they could've repainted Gen Plex's Scamper as Cog), nor does it come with the sword(Takar Tomy sorted that though), nor the 2 guns that the original came with, nor does it have it's hip cannons(although a 3p company now has made one of his 2 guns & hip cannons, that's all very well & good! but it still doesn't detract from the fact that those items should've came supplied as standard with the figure in the first place instead of having to fork out extra on some 3p company to supply those as upgrade kits)
as for Max's non G1 city mode...well..we all know the story by now as to why that is...coz they took a secondary alt city mode they saw in an old toy catalog & decided to go with that! also coupled with the fact that using the Gen Plex mold they couldn't quite pull off that g1 city mode accurately without more extensive modding + you can still pull off that weird alt city mode with other versions of Fort Max(G1, Kabaya, Bootleg & Toyworld Infinitor..interestingly the instruction booklet for Infinitor even has that as one of the official modes) without having to resort to buying this one.
Posted by Stuartmaximus on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:51am CST
fenrir72 wrote:jungletron wrote:Maybe it’s just me and we all know that it’s already been debated to death in the other threads, but I still prefer my Autobot City to have their east and west sections running parallel to each other and have the ramp touch the ground without resorting to third-party upgrades that nonetheless do not remedy the ‘giant-robot-doing-yoga’ look in base mode, which is also the problem with Generations Fort Max. The point is, with modern toy engineering and its sheer size I don’t think it’s too much to expect for Generations Metroplex to have been better designed. Sorry, but it is my honest opinion that G1 Metroplex is still better than his Generations version. Having said that, I admit that up to now I’m still on the fence as to getting Generations Metroplex considering that he’s now on clearance and Generations Trypticon is going to be released later this year though I truly wish that this debacle isn’t repeated. How could it? A spread-eagled T-Rex can’t possibly be that terrible.william-james88 wrote:jungletron wrote:Generations Metroplex is also a total fail.
Please tell me more if possible. I thought at least his base mode was very close to the original.
I agree with you with one aspect. G1 Metroplex had a gravity powered vehicle ramp launcher. Two extra vehicles/figure in Slammer and Sixgun. The remake lacked those.
As does TR Fort Max! coz the Hasbro one doesn't come with Gasket & Grommet/Cog(although i still think that they could've repainted Gen Plex's Scamper as Cog), nor does it come with the sword(Takar Tomy sorted that though), nor the 2 guns that the original came with, nor does it have it's hip cannons(although a 3p company now has made one of his 2 guns & hip cannons, that's all very well & good! but it still doesn't detract from the fact that those items should've came supplied as standard with the figure in the first place instead of having to fork out extra on some 3p company to supply those as upgrade kits)
as for Max's non G1 city mode...well..we all know the story by now as to why that is...coz they took a secondary alt city mode they saw in an old toy catalog & decided to go with that! also coupled with the fact that using the Gen Plex mold they couldn't quite pull off that g1 city mode accurately without more extensive modding + you can still pull off that weird alt city mode with other versions of Fort Max(G1, Kabaya, Bootleg & Toyworld Infinitor..interestingly the instruction booklet for Infinitor even has that as one of the official modes) without having to resort to buying this one.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855572)
Posted by frogbat on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:54am CST
Posted by frogbat on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:54am CST
Soundwave... his recent TR release looks ok but is just a blaster repaint... the original g1 with his weapons storing as batteries was awesome
Grimlock.. don't have classics version but I do have the Mp and WFC updates and well the original toy still somehow manages to eclipse them for me at least.
Re sky lynx... really love the update, he looks the part in spite of not having all of the original's play modes.
Grimlock.. don't have classics version but I do have the Mp and WFC updates and well the original toy still somehow manages to eclipse them for me at least.
Re sky lynx... really love the update, he looks the part in spite of not having all of the original's play modes.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855580)
Posted by Evil Eye on January 29th, 2017 @ 5:56am CST
Posted by Evil Eye on January 29th, 2017 @ 5:56am CST
Couldn't agree with this list more, especially #1. G1 Fort Max is just a thing of beauty, and the new toy completely fails to live up to the legacy.
However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round. Meanwhile the original toy is one of the best of G1 with surprisingly good articulation, a cool gimmick and a really cool look.
However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round. Meanwhile the original toy is one of the best of G1 with surprisingly good articulation, a cool gimmick and a really cool look.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855592)
Posted by Kurona on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:13am CST
But that's not the point - the point is that this Sky Lynx figure is doing something different, and that's where I find issue. Were it's purpose to simply be an update of Sky Lynx... it would be inferior. It's smaller, it can't split apart and admittedly it is hollow in sections. But that's not all there is to the toy - it can combine, a feature the original toy didn't have and hence it's clearly going for a different purpose. So it's not about whether it's a better toy than the original to me. Is CW Prowl a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape or form? He doesn't have any of Prowl's typical visual iconography - the car hood chest, the door wings, the shoulder missiles - and it's all sacrificed so he can combine. The same can be said about Ironhide or Rodimus or Wheeljack. All of these are not good representations of the character on their own, but I repeat, that is not the point at all. The point is they sacrifice what they would 100% have had were they actual updates in order to be a cool somewhat-decent representation of the character that can also combine. That is the entire point, and the same applies to Sky Lynx - if you're looking for a good update and representation in a CW toy (aside from those originally in a combiner team), then right from the outset you're doing it wrong. Look at what the toy set out to do rather than what people wanted and are impatient for and you find we've got a friggin' great toy at the end of the day.
Again, to me the only debate - and the only reason why people complain about him - is about whether he should have gotten a 'true' update before one that can combine, because his CW toy clearly isn't supposed to be an actual update so judging him by those standards just isn't a fair evaluation of the figure. And once again... I don't think the matter of not having a 'true' update beforehand should be an issue. I understand that point of view but at the end of the day it simply comes from impatience and hinders creativity and the chance to do something unique in a line that really, really needed something unique and creative at the end.
If you're annoyed with CW Sky Lynx for not being an update of the original, that's not an actual criticism of the toy. That's just a criticism with Hasbro's decision to not update him before making a version that can combine.
Posted by Kurona on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:13am CST
kurthy wrote:And Kurona, would you say that CW Sky Lynx is a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape, or form?
But that's not the point - the point is that this Sky Lynx figure is doing something different, and that's where I find issue. Were it's purpose to simply be an update of Sky Lynx... it would be inferior. It's smaller, it can't split apart and admittedly it is hollow in sections. But that's not all there is to the toy - it can combine, a feature the original toy didn't have and hence it's clearly going for a different purpose. So it's not about whether it's a better toy than the original to me. Is CW Prowl a better toy for the character than the original in any way, shape or form? He doesn't have any of Prowl's typical visual iconography - the car hood chest, the door wings, the shoulder missiles - and it's all sacrificed so he can combine. The same can be said about Ironhide or Rodimus or Wheeljack. All of these are not good representations of the character on their own, but I repeat, that is not the point at all. The point is they sacrifice what they would 100% have had were they actual updates in order to be a cool somewhat-decent representation of the character that can also combine. That is the entire point, and the same applies to Sky Lynx - if you're looking for a good update and representation in a CW toy (aside from those originally in a combiner team), then right from the outset you're doing it wrong. Look at what the toy set out to do rather than what people wanted and are impatient for and you find we've got a friggin' great toy at the end of the day.
Again, to me the only debate - and the only reason why people complain about him - is about whether he should have gotten a 'true' update before one that can combine, because his CW toy clearly isn't supposed to be an actual update so judging him by those standards just isn't a fair evaluation of the figure. And once again... I don't think the matter of not having a 'true' update beforehand should be an issue. I understand that point of view but at the end of the day it simply comes from impatience and hinders creativity and the chance to do something unique in a line that really, really needed something unique and creative at the end.
If you're annoyed with CW Sky Lynx for not being an update of the original, that's not an actual criticism of the toy. That's just a criticism with Hasbro's decision to not update him before making a version that can combine.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855595)
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:29am CST
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:29am CST
Er, no.
The classics Cheetor mold is universally hated and is most certainly NOT better than the original. Considering the masterpiece version is almost out, this was a poor choice for inclusion.
CW Skylinx also not correct. Apart from the fact that it no longer separates into his four different alt modes, the rear legs are too floppy to properly support the beast mode, while the gestalt mode's (shoulders?) are also a floppy mess.
Did the writer of this article ever see the reviews for these two toys, or even bother to read most of the opinions at this site or other sites?
Not the best article. Please improve it.
The classics Cheetor mold is universally hated and is most certainly NOT better than the original. Considering the masterpiece version is almost out, this was a poor choice for inclusion.
CW Skylinx also not correct. Apart from the fact that it no longer separates into his four different alt modes, the rear legs are too floppy to properly support the beast mode, while the gestalt mode's (shoulders?) are also a floppy mess.
Did the writer of this article ever see the reviews for these two toys, or even bother to read most of the opinions at this site or other sites?
Not the best article. Please improve it.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855596)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:34am CST
I defenitely agree. The CW and the G1 original Skylinx can't be compared because they are doing things DIFFERENTLY. For Skylinx, maybe they'll make a leader class toy down the line, made of the original 2 components. With the mechanical walking gimmick removed of course. They have just made a pretty decent 6shot so a Leader Skylinx is not impossible.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:34am CST
Kurona wrote:(...)
If you're annoyed with CW Sky Lynx for not being an update of the original, that's not an actual criticism of the toy. That's just a criticism with Hasbro's decision to not update him before making a version that can combine.
I defenitely agree. The CW and the G1 original Skylinx can't be compared because they are doing things DIFFERENTLY. For Skylinx, maybe they'll make a leader class toy down the line, made of the original 2 components. With the mechanical walking gimmick removed of course. They have just made a pretty decent 6shot so a Leader Skylinx is not impossible.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855597)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:36am CST
Man, are you a funny little confused one!
Please read the title of the article and the WHOLE article again. There's a little detail you have missed.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:36am CST
primalxconvoy wrote:Er, no.
The classics Cheetor mold is universally hated and is most certainly NOT better than the original. Considering the masterpiece version is almost out, this was a poor choice for inclusion.
CW Skylinx also not correct. Apart from the fact that it no longer separates into his four different alt modes, the rear legs are too floppy to properly support the beast mode, while the gestalt mode's (shoulders?) are also a floppy mess.
Did the writer of this article ever see the reviews for these two toys, or even bother to read most of the opinions at this site or other sites?
Not the best article. Please improve it.
Man, are you a funny little confused one!
Please read the title of the article and the WHOLE article again. There's a little detail you have missed.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855601)
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:53am CST
Ahh...
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 29th, 2017 @ 8:53am CST
-Kanrabat- wrote:primalxconvoy wrote:Er, no.
The classics Cheetor mold is universally hated and is most certainly NOT better than the original. Considering the masterpiece version is almost out, this was a poor choice for inclusion.
CW Skylinx also not correct. Apart from the fact that it no longer separates into his four different alt modes, the rear legs are too floppy to properly support the beast mode, while the gestalt mode's (shoulders?) are also a floppy mess.
Did the writer of this article ever see the reviews for these two toys, or even bother to read most of the opinions at this site or other sites?
Not the best article. Please improve it.
Man, are you a funny little confused one!
Please read the title of the article and the WHOLE article again. There's a little detail you have missed.
Ahh...
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855617)
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:26am CST
The point of this article is how the original toys are better. So we share the same opinions. Just reread the article and it should make sense.
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:26am CST
primalxconvoy wrote:Er, no.
The classics Cheetor mold is universally hated and is most certainly NOT better than the original. Considering the masterpiece version is almost out, this was a poor choice for inclusion.
CW Skylinx also not correct. Apart from the fact that it no longer separates into his four different alt modes, the rear legs are too floppy to properly support the beast mode, while the gestalt mode's (shoulders?) are also a floppy mess.
Did the writer of this article ever see the reviews for these two toys, or even bother to read most of the opinions at this site or other sites?
Not the best article. Please improve it.
The point of this article is how the original toys are better. So we share the same opinions. Just reread the article and it should make sense.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855619)
Posted by TheForgottenTaxi on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:30am CST
Posted by TheForgottenTaxi on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:30am CST
I agree with most of this list but... am I the only fan who actually liked MP-5?
Look, I get it, he's got spindly legs. His fusion canon is too heavy for his arm. Fine.
But I actually kinda enjoy his transformation, his gun mode is absolutely glorious, and if you think he doesn't look better in robot mode than Trigger Crotch, you're nuts.
Look, I get it, he's got spindly legs. His fusion canon is too heavy for his arm. Fine.
But I actually kinda enjoy his transformation, his gun mode is absolutely glorious, and if you think he doesn't look better in robot mode than Trigger Crotch, you're nuts.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855626)
Posted by frogbat on January 29th, 2017 @ 11:00am CST
Posted by frogbat on January 29th, 2017 @ 11:00am CST
TheForgottenTaxi wrote:I agree with most of this list but... am I the only fan who actually liked MP-5?
Look, I get it, he's got spindly legs. His fusion canon is too heavy for his arm. Fine.
But I actually kinda enjoy his transformation, his gun mode is absolutely glorious, and if you think he doesn't look better in robot mode than Trigger Crotch, you're nuts.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855644)
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:29pm CST
Ha! He looks better, for sure, but he's still not even close to being accurate to anything.
And Kurona, I get what you mean about Skylynx, but the generations line is specifically about updating classic characters for better or worse. This was their big unveiling for skylynx, finally, and they knew that. And they chose to reintroduce him as a standard torso rather than the unique toy he should be. Prowl and company already had classics toys and even then they are all perfectly fine when compared to their originals. Nothing was taken away from them. Ironhide finally has a head All CW skylynx gives us is another Torso to play with but it doesnt give us a Classics skylynx for our classics collection, where we are still better off using the G1 toy for that representation. That is my main point.
Also, question for Emerje, is the BM Tank Drone a better toy than Gen Tankor?
And Burn, its not about the name, but who the toy is representing. BM Tankor representds the General from Beast Machines, right? Isnt that who Gen Tankor represents as well? His puny size does make him look instead like an update to the tank drone, but he is supposed to be our general, and that doesnt work, does it? Jut trying to express my point as clearly as possible.
Black Hat, we should write lists together, you have a great input everytime. I did indeed have a titanium on the list at first, it was Optimal Optimus. From a nice big toy, we get a small one with lame articulation and the lack of a Beast Mode (on a freaken Beast Wars character!). But then I saw that it didnt gel with the rest of the list. It didnt feel like Hasbro trying to update anything, just present characters in a different way. Kinda like World's Smallest TFs. They came after the G1 toys, but arent trying to better them, just present them differently. Thats how I feel about the Titanium line. Because or else, this whole list would be that line right? Like Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus who are missing modes and Soundwave, which as you mentioned, doesnt hold a candle to the original. Even though they are legitimate updates, they dont feel to have the same intentions as the other ones on the list. At least to me.
Ones I realize I did miss out on would be G1 Double Dealer. I totally forgot about his Gen update, because of how forgetable it was. It wasnt bad, but it felt more opportunistic than anything and easy to ignore. An interesting one I just thought of now is G1 ravage and TR Ravage. There are better ravages out there than G1 ravage, but the TR is not one of them. Still, I dont know if it has the same impact when there are so many other good ravages out there, which came before.
That is one hell of a bold statement, I love it!
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:29pm CST
TheForgottenTaxi wrote:But I actually kinda enjoy his transformation, his gun mode is absolutely glorious, and if you think he doesn't look better in robot mode than Trigger Crotch, you're nuts.
Ha! He looks better, for sure, but he's still not even close to being accurate to anything.
And Kurona, I get what you mean about Skylynx, but the generations line is specifically about updating classic characters for better or worse. This was their big unveiling for skylynx, finally, and they knew that. And they chose to reintroduce him as a standard torso rather than the unique toy he should be. Prowl and company already had classics toys and even then they are all perfectly fine when compared to their originals. Nothing was taken away from them. Ironhide finally has a head
All CW skylynx gives us is another Torso to play with but it doesnt give us a Classics skylynx for our classics collection, where we are still better off using the G1 toy for that representation. That is my main point.Also, question for Emerje, is the BM Tank Drone a better toy than Gen Tankor?
And Burn, its not about the name, but who the toy is representing. BM Tankor representds the General from Beast Machines, right? Isnt that who Gen Tankor represents as well? His puny size does make him look instead like an update to the tank drone, but he is supposed to be our general, and that doesnt work, does it? Jut trying to express my point as clearly as possible.
Black Hat wrote:However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round. Meanwhile the original toy is one of the best of G1 with surprisingly good articulation, a cool gimmick and a really cool look.
Black Hat, we should write lists together, you have a great input everytime. I did indeed have a titanium on the list at first, it was Optimal Optimus. From a nice big toy, we get a small one with lame articulation and the lack of a Beast Mode (on a freaken Beast Wars character!). But then I saw that it didnt gel with the rest of the list. It didnt feel like Hasbro trying to update anything, just present characters in a different way. Kinda like World's Smallest TFs. They came after the G1 toys, but arent trying to better them, just present them differently. Thats how I feel about the Titanium line. Because or else, this whole list would be that line right? Like Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus who are missing modes and Soundwave, which as you mentioned, doesnt hold a candle to the original. Even though they are legitimate updates, they dont feel to have the same intentions as the other ones on the list. At least to me.
Ones I realize I did miss out on would be G1 Double Dealer. I totally forgot about his Gen update, because of how forgetable it was. It wasnt bad, but it felt more opportunistic than anything and easy to ignore. An interesting one I just thought of now is G1 ravage and TR Ravage. There are better ravages out there than G1 ravage, but the TR is not one of them. Still, I dont know if it has the same impact when there are so many other good ravages out there, which came before.
frogbat wrote:Grimlock.. don't have classics version but I do have the Mp and WFC updates and well the original toy still somehow manages to eclipse them for me at least.
That is one hell of a bold statement, I love it!
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855656)
Posted by Evil Eye on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:58pm CST
Thank you very much! I'd love to contribute to these lists, even if my actual TF knowledge isn't that broad.
Anyway, I see what you mean about discounting the Titanium line- I just felt that Soundwave was a particularly foul offender. Whereas Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus were based on already superb (perfect even) toys- very large, fairly complex ones at that- Soundwave's G1 self, whilst amazing for the time, is nonetheless quite dated, and very simple- he just turns into a rectangle. And whilst most of the other Titanium designs were radically different from their G1 selves, and actually looked pretty good (I do wish that Seeker design would get a proper updated figure) Titanium Soundwave was more or less the G1 toy but with added techno detail, and could have quite easily fitted in with a CHUG shelf had he not been so unspeakably crap. His tape player mode isn't so bad- it's recognizably Soundwave, even if it is a bit funky. It's that robot mode where everything goes horrendously wrong.
So whilst the "Not a direct update" clause does apply, I think the fact that he's the most G1 of the Titanium range, and fairly close to a direct update (albeit a sucky one) combined with the fact that all the engineers had to do was make a robot that turned into a rectangle rather than reproduce a large and rather involved (for the time) toy, earns him a space above all the others as a true failure of an update. There are other Titaniums that are worse (notably "G.I. Joe" Megatron) but none that are worse direct updates, mainly because he's the only direct update.
I'll agree with you that Doubledealer kinda sucks, though I'll admit I'm not a big fan of Doubledealer to begin with. Robot mode and missile truck mode are awesome, bird mode...not so much. As for how they managed to screw the pooch (cat?) with TR Ravage so badly, I have no idea.
This makes me think, a potentially good list could be "Top 5 Soundwave toys". Obviously the MP would be on there, but what others do you think should make it? I'm thinking the Cybertron toy (for being a legitimately awesome design in its own right whilst remaining instantly recognizable as Soundwave), Animated Soundwave (for the cool "beat box" car mode and GUITAR LASERBEAK) and Prime Soundwave (for being such a radical reinterpretation on Soundwave as a character, being a fun, deloightfully expressive and creepy toy, and looking an awful lot like Soundwave made sweet love to Evangelion Unit 01).
Posted by Evil Eye on January 29th, 2017 @ 12:58pm CST
william-james88 wrote:Black Hat wrote:However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round. Meanwhile the original toy is one of the best of G1 with surprisingly good articulation, a cool gimmick and a really cool look.
Black Hat, we should write lists together, you have a great input everytime. I did indeed have a titanium on the list at first, it was Optimal Optimus. From a nice big toy, we get a small one with lame articulation and the lack of a Beast Mode (on a freaken Beast Wars character!). But then I saw that it didnt gel with the rest of the list. It didnt feel like Hasbro trying to update anything, just present characters in a different way. Kinda like World's Smallest TFs. They came after the G1 toys, but arent trying to better them, just present them differently. Thats how I feel about the Titanium line. Because or else, this whole list would be that line right? Like Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus who are missing modes and Soundwave, which as you mentioned, doesnt hold a candle to the original. Even though they are legitimate updates, they dont feel to have the same intentions as the other ones on the list. At least to me.
Ones I realize I did miss out on would be G1 Double Dealer. I totally forgot about his Gen update, because of how forgetable it was. It wasnt bad, but it felt more opportunistic than anything and easy to ignore. An interesting one I just thought of now is G1 ravage and TR Ravage. There are better ravages out there than G1 ravage, but the TR is not one of them. Still, I dont know if it has the same impact when there are so many other good ravages out there, which came before.
Thank you very much! I'd love to contribute to these lists, even if my actual TF knowledge isn't that broad.
Anyway, I see what you mean about discounting the Titanium line- I just felt that Soundwave was a particularly foul offender. Whereas Fire Convoy and Optimal Optimus were based on already superb (perfect even) toys- very large, fairly complex ones at that- Soundwave's G1 self, whilst amazing for the time, is nonetheless quite dated, and very simple- he just turns into a rectangle. And whilst most of the other Titanium designs were radically different from their G1 selves, and actually looked pretty good (I do wish that Seeker design would get a proper updated figure) Titanium Soundwave was more or less the G1 toy but with added techno detail, and could have quite easily fitted in with a CHUG shelf had he not been so unspeakably crap. His tape player mode isn't so bad- it's recognizably Soundwave, even if it is a bit funky. It's that robot mode where everything goes horrendously wrong.
So whilst the "Not a direct update" clause does apply, I think the fact that he's the most G1 of the Titanium range, and fairly close to a direct update (albeit a sucky one) combined with the fact that all the engineers had to do was make a robot that turned into a rectangle rather than reproduce a large and rather involved (for the time) toy, earns him a space above all the others as a true failure of an update. There are other Titaniums that are worse (notably "G.I. Joe" Megatron) but none that are worse direct updates, mainly because he's the only direct update.
I'll agree with you that Doubledealer kinda sucks, though I'll admit I'm not a big fan of Doubledealer to begin with. Robot mode and missile truck mode are awesome, bird mode...not so much. As for how they managed to screw the pooch (cat?) with TR Ravage so badly, I have no idea.
This makes me think, a potentially good list could be "Top 5 Soundwave toys". Obviously the MP would be on there, but what others do you think should make it? I'm thinking the Cybertron toy (for being a legitimately awesome design in its own right whilst remaining instantly recognizable as Soundwave), Animated Soundwave (for the cool "beat box" car mode and GUITAR LASERBEAK) and Prime Soundwave (for being such a radical reinterpretation on Soundwave as a character, being a fun, deloightfully expressive and creepy toy, and looking an awful lot like Soundwave made sweet love to Evangelion Unit 01).
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855693)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:48pm CST
Do it, this is about having fun and starting conversations
I agree with this, as it is meant to be an update, it looks like him, has the same alt mode, has the same gimmick, and I think the bio is pretty g1 based, so I'd say that that's a fair comparison - especially as this was before the huge generations push to update these characters (especially as we didn't get our proper update to soundwave until just this year - that, to me, makes this a reasonable comparison)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 29th, 2017 @ 3:48pm CST
Black Hat wrote:Thank you very much! I'd love to contribute to these lists, even if my actual TF knowledge isn't that broad.
Do it, this is about having fun and starting conversations
Anyway, I see what you mean about discounting the Titanium line- I just felt that Soundwave was a particularly foul offender.
I agree with this, as it is meant to be an update, it looks like him, has the same alt mode, has the same gimmick, and I think the bio is pretty g1 based, so I'd say that that's a fair comparison - especially as this was before the huge generations push to update these characters (especially as we didn't get our proper update to soundwave until just this year - that, to me, makes this a reasonable comparison)
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855706)
Posted by Zeedust on January 29th, 2017 @ 4:25pm CST
He actually said in his honorable mentions that if he got into the Titaniums, there would be nothing else on the list.
Posted by Zeedust on January 29th, 2017 @ 4:25pm CST
Black Hat wrote:However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round.
He actually said in his honorable mentions that if he got into the Titaniums, there would be nothing else on the list.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855740)
Posted by Kurona on January 29th, 2017 @ 6:20pm CST
But again, as I said... that's not a criticism of the toy. That's a criticism of the decision and concept; in execution, nothing is wrong with CW Sky Lynx as a toy. well okay a few of his joints are loose and his dragon thing mode could do a better job at standing but still, a combining Sky Lynx isn't a bad thing. In fact it's a pretty incredible thing and I like what they done with the idea; I actually think it's one of the best if not the best looking torso from the entire line.
The title of this list is "Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update", and going by that alone, it's simply unfair to say G1 Sky Lynx is 'better' than CW Sky Lynx just because the latter does something different. It would be fair if the figure was a Leader Class Sky Lynx that simply had the original gimmick of the toy gutted and nothing to replace it with it's only gimmick being "transforms from shuttle mode to bizarre bird dragon abomination", but since the CW toy was going for something different, it can't be said to be better or worse. It's just different.
Though I am kind of curious - following this same line of reasoning, do you not like Titans Return Alpha Trion? It's a rather good toy and an incredible design, but it does not accurately represent any version of Alpha Trion to date despite it being his first toy.
Posted by Kurona on January 29th, 2017 @ 6:20pm CST
william-james88 wrote:And Kurona, I get what you mean about Skylynx, but the generations line is specifically about updating classic characters for better or worse. This was their big unveiling for skylynx, finally, and they knew that. And they chose to reintroduce him as a standard torso rather than the unique toy he should be. Prowl and company already had classics toys and even then they are all perfectly fine when compared to their originals. Nothing was taken away from them. Ironhide finally has a head
But again, as I said... that's not a criticism of the toy. That's a criticism of the decision and concept; in execution, nothing is wrong with CW Sky Lynx as a toy. well okay a few of his joints are loose and his dragon thing mode could do a better job at standing but still, a combining Sky Lynx isn't a bad thing. In fact it's a pretty incredible thing and I like what they done with the idea; I actually think it's one of the best if not the best looking torso from the entire line.
The title of this list is "Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update", and going by that alone, it's simply unfair to say G1 Sky Lynx is 'better' than CW Sky Lynx just because the latter does something different. It would be fair if the figure was a Leader Class Sky Lynx that simply had the original gimmick of the toy gutted and nothing to replace it with it's only gimmick being "transforms from shuttle mode to bizarre bird dragon abomination", but since the CW toy was going for something different, it can't be said to be better or worse. It's just different.
Though I am kind of curious - following this same line of reasoning, do you not like Titans Return Alpha Trion? It's a rather good toy and an incredible design, but it does not accurately represent any version of Alpha Trion to date despite it being his first toy.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855744)
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 7:08pm CST
Thanks for defending me zeedust. But I actually wrote that part after the facts since it is a totally legitimate which I ignored. So I felt like writing why. I thank you all for supporting these lists, adding tobthe conversation and even making them better, as was just the case.
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 7:08pm CST
Zeedust wrote:Black Hat wrote:However, there is one example of "original toy better than update" you missed- Titanium Soundwave vs G1 Soundwave. Sure, the Titanium line is easy pickings in general, but Soundwave really takes the cake- most of the others at least LOOK good, but Soundwave looks like he's wearing a nappy, has really, really weird torso proportions, collapses into MidgetWave thanks to his telescoping legs, and generally sucks all round.
He actually said in his honorable mentions that if he got into the Titaniums, there would be nothing else on the list.
Thanks for defending me zeedust. But I actually wrote that part after the facts since it is a totally legitimate which I ignored. So I felt like writing why. I thank you all for supporting these lists, adding tobthe conversation and even making them better, as was just the case.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855760)
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:24pm CST
My beef is not that he does something different per se. Its that the original toy's uniqueness is gone. The original toy is better because he is unique and unlike anything else before or since. And I dont think CW Skylynx is a great toy anyway, at least not for skylynx. Funny enough, the only reason why I think he is worth picking up is the torso mode I find the vehicle mode useless when it cant seperate and I dont like the cheeze grater wings, and I also dislike the sculpted fake hinges found on the toy. He just feels so damn cheap compared to the original, and both have comparable articulation. All I mean to say is that if someone wants Skylynx in their collection, pick up the G1 toy, his originality makes him more fun than having another combiner wars torso. I simply much preffer the G1 version as a toy, than his update.
But I see we dont see eye to eye on this and thats fine, diversity of opinions brings that extra spice to the table, and I do truly thank you for this fun debate. But fair warning, I will never back down
(well unless my wife steps in)
It means a lot that you want my opinion on this. I pesonally dont think he is a great figure at all and I think the triple changer aspect being forced on him (when he wasnt originally meant to have it) weakens him. You end up with 2 subpar modes out of 3. Still a great looking bot mode though, regardless if it doesnt look like any previous design. Of course, that is far more excusable when Alpha Trion didnt transform in those more traditional designs so its unfair for me to want to have that very humanoid and kibble free design replicated. I think he looks great in robot mode but he is still by no means a good toy in my eyes. I feel for him the same way I feel about TR Fort Max. Great robot mode, and not much else. I did preorder the leo prime repaint though since I am hoping the more uniform colour scheme can elevate the mold and make the alt modes more cohesive.
Then guess what buddy, you just signed up for a top 5 Soundwaves list! I will send you a PM later so we can start getting it in order although you gave me a pretty good head start. Also, we might have to wait till I get to try out that Human Alliance Soundwave toy in the coming months, I hear he is really good. RID soundwave is coming out too, and I really dont know if TR soundwave stands a chance, compared to G1, when the MP would already be there. Its tough when the designs and features are so similar (I see the irony in that, Kurona). Do we just pick the ones that does it best and ignore the rest? I dont know.
But hey, as long as we can agree to leave FOC soundwave off the list, then we should be fine
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:24pm CST
Kurona wrote:The title of this list is "Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update", and going by that alone, it's simply unfair to say G1 Sky Lynx is 'better' than CW Sky Lynx just because the latter does something different.
My beef is not that he does something different per se. Its that the original toy's uniqueness is gone. The original toy is better because he is unique and unlike anything else before or since. And I dont think CW Skylynx is a great toy anyway, at least not for skylynx. Funny enough, the only reason why I think he is worth picking up is the torso mode
I find the vehicle mode useless when it cant seperate and I dont like the cheeze grater wings, and I also dislike the sculpted fake hinges found on the toy. He just feels so damn cheap compared to the original, and both have comparable articulation. All I mean to say is that if someone wants Skylynx in their collection, pick up the G1 toy, his originality makes him more fun than having another combiner wars torso. I simply much preffer the G1 version as a toy, than his update. But I see we dont see eye to eye on this and thats fine, diversity of opinions brings that extra spice to the table, and I do truly thank you for this fun debate. But fair warning, I will never back down
(well unless my wife steps in)Though I am kind of curious - following this same line of reasoning, do you not like Titans Return Alpha Trion? It's a rather good toy and an incredible design, but it does not accurately represent any version of Alpha Trion to date despite it being his first toy.
It means a lot that you want my opinion on this. I pesonally dont think he is a great figure at all and I think the triple changer aspect being forced on him (when he wasnt originally meant to have it) weakens him. You end up with 2 subpar modes out of 3. Still a great looking bot mode though, regardless if it doesnt look like any previous design. Of course, that is far more excusable when Alpha Trion didnt transform in those more traditional designs so its unfair for me to want to have that very humanoid and kibble free design replicated. I think he looks great in robot mode but he is still by no means a good toy in my eyes. I feel for him the same way I feel about TR Fort Max. Great robot mode, and not much else. I did preorder the leo prime repaint though since I am hoping the more uniform colour scheme can elevate the mold and make the alt modes more cohesive.
Black Hat wrote:This makes me think, a potentially good list could be "Top 5 Soundwave toys". Obviously the MP would be on there, but what others do you think should make it? I'm thinking the Cybertron toy (for being a legitimately awesome design in its own right whilst remaining instantly recognizable as Soundwave), Animated Soundwave (for the cool "beat box" car mode and GUITAR LASERBEAK) and Prime Soundwave (for being such a radical reinterpretation on Soundwave as a character, being a fun, deloightfully expressive and creepy toy, and looking an awful lot like Soundwave made sweet love to Evangelion Unit 01).
Then guess what buddy, you just signed up for a top 5 Soundwaves list! I will send you a PM later so we can start getting it in order although you gave me a pretty good head start. Also, we might have to wait till I get to try out that Human Alliance Soundwave toy in the coming months, I hear he is really good. RID soundwave is coming out too, and I really dont know if TR soundwave stands a chance, compared to G1, when the MP would already be there. Its tough when the designs and features are so similar (I see the irony in that, Kurona). Do we just pick the ones that does it best and ignore the rest? I dont know.
But hey, as long as we can agree to leave FOC soundwave off the list, then we should be fine
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855768)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:38pm CST
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:38pm CST
So, Will, you finally managed to have a DOTM HA Soundwave coming your way? Even if it's a KO, you'll get the feel of how awesome that mold is. Just you wait.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855772)
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:49pm CST
I'm getting the reissue with the more screen accurate deco, you can see him in this commercial: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... lip/37182/
Posted by william-james88 on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:49pm CST
-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Will, you finally managed to have a DOTM HA Soundwave coming your way? Even if it's a KO, you'll get the feel of how awesome that mold is. Just you wait.
I'm getting the reissue with the more screen accurate deco, you can see him in this commercial: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... lip/37182/
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855773)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:52pm CST
Even better. You'll have a blast for sure. Mabe even on HA Jazz level.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on January 29th, 2017 @ 9:52pm CST
william-james88 wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:So, Will, you finally managed to have a DOTM HA Soundwave coming your way? Even if it's a KO, you'll get the feel of how awesome that mold is. Just you wait.
I'm getting the reissue with the more screen accurate deco, you can see him in this commercial: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... lip/37182/
Even better. You'll have a blast for sure. Mabe even on HA Jazz level.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855777)
Posted by TFPhotoguy on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:03pm CST
Posted by TFPhotoguy on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:03pm CST
Can't agree more with fort max. Although he is a lot of fun, the "City mode" is basically just the designers trying to get that mode with as little effort as possible.
However CW skylynx is a really good figure for the line it's in. I like the look of him, and it feels like a good enough figure to be in a collection. Hope a 3rd party company upscales him like they did defensor.
However CW skylynx is a really good figure for the line it's in. I like the look of him, and it feels like a good enough figure to be in a collection. Hope a 3rd party company upscales him like they did defensor.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855788)
Posted by Emerje on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:57pm CST
The tank drone is by no means a bad figure, in fact I think it has the better tank bode, but as an overall figure the Generations version is better. Better bot mode, better colors, and better size. Not a better canon, though, that little basic figure had an amazing canon!
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on January 29th, 2017 @ 10:57pm CST
william-james88 wrote:Also, question for Emerje, is the BM Tank Drone a better toy than Gen Tankor?
The tank drone is by no means a bad figure, in fact I think it has the better tank bode, but as an overall figure the Generations version is better. Better bot mode, better colors, and better size. Not a better canon, though, that little basic figure had an amazing canon!
Emerje
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855826)
Posted by Evil Eye on January 30th, 2017 @ 3:32am CST
I ask because Animated Soundblaster is supposedly (from what I hear) a better toy than Soundwave by virtue of better QC and, of course, Keytar Ratbat.
I wouldn't include TR Soundwave myself. He just looks too much like a Blaster retool. I really want Blaster once my home situation is sorted out and I can collect to my heart's content again, but Soundwave just doesn't appeal to me.
Some other Soundwaves I can think of...
BW Soundwave: Probably wouldn't make the list as he looks ludicrous and suffers from GPS, maybe deserves a mention for how utterly bizarre he is though.
Machine Wars Soundwave: Sure it's just Stalker with a different colour scheme, but Stalker was a cool toy, and the colours rock. I actually wouldn't mind a G1 styled Soundwave in that deco.
Gobot Soundwave: Yeah, perhaps not...
G1 Soundwave: The granddaddy, and one of the few G1 toys I wouldn't mind owning. Still has a certain undeniable charm, and gave birth to one of the best gimmicks ever (IMO).
Music Label Soundwave: Sure he sucks as a music player (or so I'm told) but as a G1 style Soundwave he rocks.
ROTF Soundwave: Whereas Prime Soundwave looks like the unholy spawn of Evangelion Unit 01, this guy has some Neue Ziel ancestry. Sure his spaceship mode is a washout, but the satellite mode is delightfully sinister, and the robot mode looks good too.
Posted by Evil Eye on January 30th, 2017 @ 3:32am CST
william-james88 wrote:Black Hat wrote:This makes me think, a potentially good list could be "Top 5 Soundwave toys". Obviously the MP would be on there, but what others do you think should make it? I'm thinking the Cybertron toy (for being a legitimately awesome design in its own right whilst remaining instantly recognizable as Soundwave), Animated Soundwave (for the cool "beat box" car mode and GUITAR LASERBEAK) and Prime Soundwave (for being such a radical reinterpretation on Soundwave as a character, being a fun, deloightfully expressive and creepy toy, and looking an awful lot like Soundwave made sweet love to Evangelion Unit 01).
Then guess what buddy, you just signed up for a top 5 Soundwaves list! I will send you a PM later so we can start getting it in order although you gave me a pretty good head start. Also, we might have to wait till I get to try out that Human Alliance Soundwave toy in the coming months, I hear he is really good. RID soundwave is coming out too, and I really dont know if TR soundwave stands a chance, compared to G1, when the MP would already be there. Its tough when the designs and features are so similar (I see the irony in that, Kurona). Do we just pick the ones that does it best and ignore the rest? I dont know.
But hey, as long as we can agree to leave FOC soundwave off the list, then we should be fine
I ask because Animated Soundblaster is supposedly (from what I hear) a better toy than Soundwave by virtue of better QC and, of course, Keytar Ratbat.
I wouldn't include TR Soundwave myself. He just looks too much like a Blaster retool. I really want Blaster once my home situation is sorted out and I can collect to my heart's content again, but Soundwave just doesn't appeal to me.
Some other Soundwaves I can think of...
BW Soundwave: Probably wouldn't make the list as he looks ludicrous and suffers from GPS, maybe deserves a mention for how utterly bizarre he is though.
Machine Wars Soundwave: Sure it's just Stalker with a different colour scheme, but Stalker was a cool toy, and the colours rock. I actually wouldn't mind a G1 styled Soundwave in that deco.
Gobot Soundwave: Yeah, perhaps not...
G1 Soundwave: The granddaddy, and one of the few G1 toys I wouldn't mind owning. Still has a certain undeniable charm, and gave birth to one of the best gimmicks ever (IMO).
Music Label Soundwave: Sure he sucks as a music player (or so I'm told) but as a G1 style Soundwave he rocks.
ROTF Soundwave: Whereas Prime Soundwave looks like the unholy spawn of Evangelion Unit 01, this guy has some Neue Ziel ancestry. Sure his spaceship mode is a washout, but the satellite mode is delightfully sinister, and the robot mode looks good too.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855832)
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 30th, 2017 @ 4:41am CST
Posted by primalxconvoy on January 30th, 2017 @ 4:41am CST
I suspect that those who are apologists for CW Skylynx don't own the re-released G1 version from Takara. It's sad that an old toy is simply better than the newer version. The CW version cannot "combe", ironically enough, into what he should, and/separate into his constituent parts. Heck, it can't even stand up straight.
The Japanese version, even though it might have better paint apps, failed due to the high price, as it was stupidly released, like Optimus, in a pointless gift set with other unwanted G1 characters that are already better in CHUG (except fit Ironhide and Ratchet, but who wants Ratchet out of first aid?).
The Japanese version, even though it might have better paint apps, failed due to the high price, as it was stupidly released, like Optimus, in a pointless gift set with other unwanted G1 characters that are already better in CHUG (except fit Ironhide and Ratchet, but who wants Ratchet out of first aid?).
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855855)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 30th, 2017 @ 8:58am CST
Or it could be, and follow me on this one, that people actually like what they did with the cw version...
If I had a choice between the two, I'd take the cw one every time. The original is a dumb lump and I wouldn't get it even if it was free
Posted by Hellscream9999 on January 30th, 2017 @ 8:58am CST
primalxconvoy wrote:I suspect that those who are apologists for CW Skylynx don't own the re-released G1 version from Takara. It's sad that an old toy is simply better than the newer version. The CW version cannot "combe", ironically enough, into what he should, and/separate into his constituent parts. Heck, it can't even stand up straight.
The Japanese version, even though it might have better paint apps, failed due to the high price, as it was stupidly released, like Optimus, in a pointless gift set with other unwanted G1 characters that are already better in CHUG (except fit Ironhide and Ratchet, but who wants Ratchet out of first aid?).
Or it could be, and follow me on this one, that people actually like what they did with the cw version...
If I had a choice between the two, I'd take the cw one every time. The original is a dumb lump and I wouldn't get it even if it was free
Re: Top 5 Transformers Toys which are better than their Update (1855857)
Posted by william-james88 on January 30th, 2017 @ 9:16am CST
Haha, now thats a bold stance. Though I am curious of something, do you own G1 skylynx? I am now wondering if those who say the CW one is a better toy actually own both.
And I dont get the lump part, they have the same proportions and a similar articulation (I think the G1 version might have more due to the tail). The only part that kinda sucks about the G1 version is how the sauropod neck starts earlier than the rest of the body.
Posted by william-james88 on January 30th, 2017 @ 9:16am CST
Hellscream9999 wrote:If I had a choice between the two, I'd take the cw one every time. The original is a dumb lump and I wouldn't get it even if it was free
Haha, now thats a bold stance. Though I am curious of something, do you own G1 skylynx? I am now wondering if those who say the CW one is a better toy actually own both.
And I dont get the lump part, they have the same proportions and a similar articulation (I think the G1 version might have more due to the tail). The only part that kinda sucks about the G1 version is how the sauropod neck starts earlier than the rest of the body.
