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Most of these changes were done long before the Ultimate Guide came out. They were established by 3H, Fun Publications, and Hasbro through the Bot Con Universe stories as well as the Universe storyline for the toys. The Ultimate Guide simply compiled this information. Secpondly it dosn't "chage" everything. It makes very minor adjustments to the TF's origins, not the main stories themselves.Damolisher wrote:See, THIS is why the Ultimate Guide is complete bullcrap. It tries to compeltely remove 20 years of Transformers history. NO-ONE can be stupid enough to ignore all 20+ years of history all because one little book wants to change everything.
Tramp wrote:Most of these changes were done long before the Ultimate Guide came out. They were established by 3H, Fun Publications, and Hasbro through the Bot Con Universe stories as well as the Universe storyline for the toys. The Ultimate Guide simply compiled this information. Secpondly it dosn't "chage" everything. It makes very minor adjustments to the TF's origins, not the main stories themselves.Damolisher wrote:See, THIS is why the Ultimate Guide is complete bullcrap. It tries to compeltely remove 20 years of Transformers history. NO-ONE can be stupid enough to ignore all 20+ years of history all because one little book wants to change everything.
Saying the Primus and Uncron chose to take on planetary forms isntead of being trapped in them is pretty minor. Besides, the origins of the TFs have always been somewhat vague which allows for more updating and clarifying, as well as retcons.Whiner-tron wrote:Tramp wrote:Most of these changes were done long before the Ultimate Guide came out. They were established by 3H, Fun Publications, and Hasbro through the Bot Con Universe stories as well as the Universe storyline for the toys. The Ultimate Guide simply compiled this information. Secpondly it dosn't "chage" everything. It makes very minor adjustments to the TF's origins, not the main stories themselves.Damolisher wrote:See, THIS is why the Ultimate Guide is complete bullcrap. It tries to compeltely remove 20 years of Transformers history. NO-ONE can be stupid enough to ignore all 20+ years of history all because one little book wants to change everything.
Veary minor?!?!?!
I don't think you can call changing thier entier origen a "minor change".
OmegaMaximus wrote:RiD is it's own little world, nothing to do with G1/BW/BM. It basically goes:
G1 Era - G1/BW/BM
RiD
Unicron Trilogy - Armada/Energon/Cybertron
Animated
There may be many things shared or in common by more than one continuity, but they are all not connected.[/i]
Eradicator wrote:Tramp:
Thank you for being patient and explaining things to me.![]()
However, there are only 2 things I still don't understand:
1. Primus and Unicron in the Astral Plane. It says that, in Marvel Primal Scream, that they actually started out in tha Astral Plane, then Primus created a portal to lead them to the physical world, them he lead them into lifeless asterids. BUT, in TUG, it says that they each HAD bodies in the physical world WHILE they were in the Astral Plane. It doesn't sem like it is retconning Marvel, but this is what I don't understand.
2. I don't understand how Primus can exist in all (most) Cybertron through. If each universe is an ALTERNATE universe, how can they all be the same? Maybe if someone explains the Allspark a little better, I'll get it.
So if it was in a mental place, in Primal Scream, how does Primus lead Unicron through a portal into lifeless asteroids? DOes he create a 'bridge' to the physial world, then their 'spirit' selves go into the asteroids?
So, then in the 'astral plane' is kinda ike their 'sparks' in the allspark?
1. Primus and Unicron in the Astral Plane. It says that, in Marvel Primal Scream, that they actually started out in tha Astral Plane, then Primus created a portal to lead them to the physical world, them he lead them into lifeless asterids. BUT, in TUG, it says that they each HAD bodies in the physical world WHILE they were in the Astral Plane. It doesn't sem like it is retconning Marvel, but this is what I don't understand.
2. I don't understand how Primus can exist in all (most) Cybertron through. If each universe is an ALTERNATE universe, how can they all be the same? Maybe if someone explains the Allspark a little better, I'll get it.
Eradicator wrote:Yeahhh...
Can someone answer those questions?
Ratman_tf wrote:This is why I don't care for the comics much. Trying to tie all the different Transformers stories into one continuity with "multiverses" just makes things worse and more incoherent when the next "source" contradicts the multiverse explanation.
And so they stack another explanation on top of the multiverse explanation... it's just not worth it.
Ratman_tf wrote:Liege Evilmus wrote:Animated, I hope just doesn't happen!
See what I mean?
And what if the movie version ignores the whole Primus/Unicron angle and gives a different orign for the Allspark cube?
Night Striker wrote:According to their own Movie guide...they're not. Apparently Cybertroian scientest have been trying for eons to figure out what the cube is and what the symbols mean. They thought in unlocking the code they could find a way to find out how they were made.
Why do I smell...cube =records of Primus and Unicron.
Liege Evilmus, that's a very intersting idea. Me I like the idea of Primacron and his Assistant and that being the first Primus. Also has there been any real explination to the oracle (the one in G1) and Oracle (BM)?
Primus, was initial built by a long forgotten highly advanced civilization. He wasn't planet sized then, but he was composed of the elements that we see on Cyberton. His brain SIGMA. Later Vector Sigma after the Quintessons found and modified it to work with a comand prompt ie The Key to Vector Sigma. The key was actualy a means created by Primus to keep try and keep the Quintessons form fully manipulating him.
The Plasma Core, which was like a heart. This later was elaborated into The Plasma Energy Chamber, wich for the same reasons as Vector Sigma needed a key to be activated.
Then the AllSpark, which was origionaly his own spark. I envision it as a crystal, not a cube. Still in an atempt to protect it, he created the keys to the previous two portions of himself. Before the Quintessons arrived, he had already broken off fragments of his spark and made a primitive type of robotic life.
He knew if the Quintessons could ever harness the full totality of the AllSpark a nightmare would be unleashed across the universe because...
As the civilization that initialy created him died. Primus went into a stasis state. For countless millenia he layed dormant.
Night Striker wrote:Trying to answer logicallySo if it was in a mental place, in Primal Scream, how does Primus lead Unicron through a portal into lifeless asteroids? DOes he create a 'bridge' to the physial world, then their 'spirit' selves go into the asteroids?
Remember they're supposed to be from the same source. He basically pulled Unicron through through this connection. The same way that Professor X does in the XMen. In Xmen he touches Jean's head to access her mind. Primus basically does the same thing, though he doesn't have to physically touch his brother becuase they share the same core source.
Tramp I thought he looked like a cross between several primes not just Rodimus.So, then in the 'astral plane' is kinda ike their 'sparks' in the allspark?
Not really, the astral plane is it's own reality. It's kind of a limbo. The allspark is actually Primus' spark itself.1. Primus and Unicron in the Astral Plane. It says that, in Marvel Primal Scream, that they actually started out in tha Astral Plane, then Primus created a portal to lead them to the physical world, them he lead them into lifeless asterids. BUT, in TUG, it says that they each HAD bodies in the physical world WHILE they were in the Astral Plane. It doesn't sem like it is retconning Marvel, but this is what I don't understand.
2. I don't understand how Primus can exist in all (most) Cybertron through. If each universe is an ALTERNATE universe, how can they all be the same? Maybe if someone explains the Allspark a little better, I'll get it.
1. How is this connected to Primal Scream. I suppose one could follow this line of thought. They started off in smaller bodies, and when those bodies were destroyed they put themselves on the astral planes so that they could keep flighting. Primus figured this would never end, so he trapped them both in the astroids which were later converted into planets. Makes sense?
2. The Allspark is like a center. A core if you will that is predisposed of many many many possiblities. Gosh, it's like...I wish I could remember the name of the show...but basically the Allspark can be seen as the center of the TF Universe. In this case it can create as many version of Prime as it wants to. Each one is a little different the the first one, but they all follow the same idea. That everyone should have freedom and should be allowed to have peace.
Think of it this way. The Allspark is like a spiders web. In the center you have the basic make up of the web. Then the spider spreads out and makes additions to it, each section of the web is not like the last. Just like each universe is no the same as G1 or Marvel comics. They all have the basic structure, but they're not built the same way. So the Allspark is like the spider that builds everything, and the webs are the universes that are connected to it.
Or more likely, think of it as a sun. There are planets that revolve around the sun. But no planet is the same. But they all have the same basic make up. The Allspark is the sun, and the planets are the universes.
Night Striker wrote:Yeah I've noticed that. I l've lost a lot when trying to post something lenghty.![]()
Anyway critiques. Firstly this is brilliant.Primus, was initial built by a long forgotten highly advanced civilization. He wasn't planet sized then, but he was composed of the elements that we see on Cyberton. His brain SIGMA. Later Vector Sigma after the Quintessons found and modified it to work with a comand prompt ie The Key to Vector Sigma. The key was actualy a means created by Primus to keep try and keep the Quintessons form fully manipulating him.
The Plasma Core, which was like a heart. This later was elaborated into The Plasma Energy Chamber, wich for the same reasons as Vector Sigma needed a key to be activated.
Then the AllSpark, which was origionaly his own spark. I envision it as a crystal, not a cube. Still in an atempt to protect it, he created the keys to the previous two portions of himself. Before the Quintessons arrived, he had already broken off fragments of his spark and made a primitive type of robotic life.
He knew if the Quintessons could ever harness the full totality of the AllSpark a nightmare would be unleashed across the universe because...
As the civilization that initialy created him died. Primus went into a stasis state. For countless millenia he layed dormant.
I love the way you wrapped the whole issue of Sigma up with Primus himself. I never thought of the idea of it being his brain, but it makes a lot of senes. I like also how you dealt with the Allspark. I thought it was a crystal myself too. The connections with the Quintesson is very unique, and it makes perfect sense why he fell to sleep.
I love the idea of someone finding him and working with him. Though I'd like to know more about this becuase to me it sounded as if the person was someone evil, and I wasn't sure if that's what he was or wasn't. Or if there was a connection to the Quintesson. I'd like to know more about this being. Who is it?
Um the technorgaic, how does that work? Some details there would be very helpful. I like though the reasons behind primus finding the world. It was quite sad and made me want to hug him.
That's all I can think of for now.
Tramp wrote:That's her theory, it isn't supported by canon. According to canon, they reshaped their physcial forms into planets themselves after being created. allowing them to travel throughout the multiverse and observe creation.Thus, they have always been a part of both the Astral and physical planes.
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