Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Perhaps due to the Africa setting is why they chose mainly African-based Maximals for the show's initial cast: Optimus, Rhinox, Cheetor, and such. A polar bear would have been out of place in such locales, and only later when they decided to expand the cast did they decided to include a polar operative, but ultimately picked Tigatron to save on creating a whole new CG model from scratch, but kept the polar lone wolf status for the character.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That is the strangest part of it all though. The toys clearly marketed Polar Claw as the rival to Scorponok. Mirrored by the second-in-command idea. Plus he was one of the biggest figures in the Maximal ranks. Yet the show just bypassed him completely? They never really mention why? If not "Tigatron", why was he not "Rhinox"? Who more or less filled that role.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Rodimus Prime wrote:Calling season 1 "the end of an era" brings up a curious idea: if Beast Wars had been canceled after season 1, would the ending have been a massive disappointment or an infamous cliffhanger?
And Megatron's last line would have been so perfect. "The Beast Wars are over! You lose!"AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.Rodimus Prime wrote:Calling season 1 "the end of an era" brings up a curious idea: if Beast Wars had been canceled after season 1, would the ending have been a massive disappointment or an infamous cliffhanger?
I'd say infamous cliffhanger. The sheer shock value of that ending would have guaranteed it. Very rare of course in most cartoons, for the villains to get that kind of win.
Yeah, I had considered maybe trying to separate them, but then Dinobot's story across both felt less contiguous and more broken apart. Without the setup in "The Probe" coming immediately before it, I feel Optimus would have protested more about Dinobot's decision to stay behind. As is, he protests less and understands more, having been given the proper reasons closer to that point.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Rodimus Prime wrote:And Megatron's last line would have been so perfect. "The Beast Wars are over! You lose!"
Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, I had considered maybe trying to separate them, but then Dinobot's story across both felt less contiguous and more broken apart. Without the setup in "The Probe" coming immediately before it, I feel Optimus would have protested more about Dinobot's decision to stay behind. As is, he protests less and understands more, having been given the proper reasons closer to that point.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That list makes a lot of sense. Still never understood why Victory and The Probe existed so close to each other? Being more or less the same premise.
Plus, "Victory" opens with the Maximals having previously hidden a spy camera inside the Predacon base. After Scorponok had spied on them and alert Megatron to their signal array in "The Probe", I feel like the Maximals could have been inspired to spy on the Preds by Scorponok's spying on them.
Ironically, I recently added all of the BW episode production codes to the episode list on the Wiki, courtesy of TFRaw.com's complete BW episode script PDFs, and bizarrely enough, "The Probe" was actually the ninth episode produced and "A Better Mousetrap" was the 11th. The two were switched in the broadcast order since Sentinel is featured in "The Probe". They switched them around so that Sentinel's creation in "A Better Mousetrap" came first.
This is also why "A Better Mousetrap" and "The Probe" are sometimes switched on home media releases, since those releases went by production order instead of broadcast order despite the continuity error that creates with Sentinel appearing before its first created.
Well, they simply thought of both during season 1. Season 2 wasn't in the works yet since, at the time they were writing both episodes, there was no guarantee that they'd get a season 2.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I believe that was the case in the UK TV release too. The Probe before A Better Mousetrap. I always thought both stories didn't have to be in Season One. The main premise of the probe could have happened in any season. It might have been a bit more unique and impactful if they had held onto it for later too.
Plus, I always thought Victory was a bit of a copout. It could have been a ideal time to literally move the Maximals to another location. Instead, Primal puts the Axalon back in the exact same space.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Then we get "Possession" and "Dark Voyage". Inferno is unusually absent from these episodes, allowing both of them to come earlier. "Dark Voyage" always felt like an early episode, especially with Dinobot still referring to the Pit as "the Inferno". Yet, the episode was both produced and aired after Inferno's debut. But, because Airazor is mentioned by Optimus, this episode could not come any earlier than after "The Spark".
"Possession", similarly, does not feature Inferno at all, yet still came after his debut. Moving it up to come before both parts of "The Trigger" actually patches up a bit of continuity that always felt off to me in that two-parter. In that episode, Blackarachnia harbors a thirst for power and a desire to overthrow Megatron and rule the Predacons. Megatron is also suspicious of her ambitions and cautions Scorponok to watch her. However, in the original broadcast order, Blackarachnia never held such desires in any prior episodes and thus never gave Megatron any reason to distrust her.
In "Possession", Blackarachnia is taught the ways of deception by Starscream. She also uses what she learned to smooth-talk her way back into Megatron's good graces, but not without him still leery of her. Placing this episode before "The Trigger" thus creates a more complete picture of Blackarachia's descent into treachery, as the only time beforehand that she ever expressed any kind of disdain for Megatron was in "The Spark" wherein she complained to Scorponok "Don't you ever get tired of groveling to that saurian?" But, that was brief and she never again expressed such frustration in the rest of the episode. Placing "Possession" here completes that development.
However, I also switched these two episodes around to place "Possession" first for three reasons. First, Airazor's absence from "Dark Voyage" didn't feel right coming right after her debut. Unlike Tigatron's preference to be on his own and Blackarachnia's natural tendency to sneak away, Airazor became a full-time resident of her team's base, and it felt wrong to put the episode wherein she is only-mentioned-and-never-seen right after her debut. While she only has a minor role in "Possession", she is at least still present for some of it.
Second, I mentioned before that Blackarachnia was getting tired of working for Megatron in "The Spark", which was only a momentary feeling in the original broadcast order. Placing the episode wherein she first develops her treacherous nature right after that episode suddenly makes her frustration in that episode all the more meaningful, now serving as foreshadowing to the events of "Possession".
Third, I also said that Megatron become wary of Blackarachnia by the end of "Possession", so his choosing send her out on such an important mission in "The Trigger", so soon after "Possession" had just given him ample reason to distrust her, felt a bit reckless on his part. Placing "Dark Voyage" between "Possession" and "The Trigger" gives some breathing room that allows Megatron to ease up on his suspicions of Blackarachnia. Not completely (as evidenced by his whispers to Scorponok) but just enough to make him willing to send her out on the mission to the flying island.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The Agenda
All this in mind you can imagine how "thrilled" I was when they completely squandered all of that potential and through plot contrivance, resolved the immediate danger in a single episode.
Alph wrote:AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The Agenda
All this in mind you can imagine how "thrilled" I was when they completely squandered all of that potential and through plot contrivance, resolved the immediate danger in a single episode.
Uh...that wasn't a plot contrivance. Blackarachnia having the access codes (which gave her the ability to stop Megatron) and her being a maximal protoform (which gave her the motive to do so) were both well established aspects of the basic storyline up until that point. They weren't something that just popped up out of nowhere to resolve the conflict, rather they were both established details that Megatron (and most of the audience, as we believed, just like him, that he had won) had simply overlooked. It's the exact opposite of a contrivance
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The Agenda - Arguably the biggest love letter to G1 onscreen to date. While Season 2 of Beast Wars featured some of the best Transformers stories ever told: Code of Hero, Transmutate etc It was the Finale that gave the ultimate pay off to fans of old. Back then for the first time we were shown the Ark and Most of it's occupants, in CG for the first time (That ugly old G2 intro to Sunbow repeats doesn't really count). More than that we saw a Megatron that did the unthinkable.. follow through with a plan and it actually succeeded."Say goodbye to the universe, Maximals! The future has changed, yessssss. The Autobots lose! Evil triumphs! And you...YOU NO LONGER EXIST!"
I cheered! He did it. Megatron had won. Not just the Beast Wars, but the Great War too by proxy.
I was reeling at the possibility of the next season. Would it be set on Cybertron? Earth? Would we still follow the Predacons or would Megatron's actions have meant the Decepticons endured until the BW era?
Obviously there would be a small "ragtag" group of Autobot/Maximal survivors. Which BW toys would form this New Cast? Would they know time was altered? Would the Vok come into play? Would they mirror the beginning of Season One, with this ragtag band on the run trying to fix what Megatron had done?
So much amazing potential, so many new possibilities. A true fresh start for a series that was going from strength to strength.
All this in mind you can imagine how "thrilled" I was when they completely squandered all of that potential and through plot contrivance, resolved the immediate danger in a single episode. They would come back to it by the finale but to me the damage had been done. Season 3 was a near total reverse on the momentum built up with the previous season and even following on the Beast Machines they never delivered on the premise on offer through The Agenda.
If only they did, what a season that might a been.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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