Images of Haslab Star Saber, Victory Leo and Victory Saber Prototypes from Boston Fan Expo

Looks fantastic!

william-james88 wrote:Fellow Seibertronian Sabrblade has alerted us of some fun new images of the prototypes being showcased at the Boston Fan Expo by Hasbro as part of the Haslab Victory Saber project. The images come from TFs on Vacation who posed them on the TFW boards.

Those aren't the pics I linked to in my news submission. These are, from Xellos on The Allspark (different person):

My fears of Victory Leo’s Lion face being flattish has been laid to rest. Yay! Looks great now

Still don’t like the fact that Victory Leo’s cannons are not full cylinders. The under side looks ugly when the cannons are pointing upwards

I do hope we hit 14000 to get the V-lock Cannon. It would be a shame if we had to go third-party for that. Victory Leo would never be complete without it.

It would also be really great if the packaging paid homage to the original Victory Saber 2-pack.

I wish we get swapple face plates for the brain master as a stretch goal if we can even get to 17000 or a sword that looks more like the anime (which the MP had). A flight stand for the combined mode would be nice too. HasLab, I hope one of you reads this,

While all Selects until now, and even Unicron had a plain brown packaging, we've seen a bit of upscale in the Galactic Odyssey series having more details on the inner package. I am curious to see what the Golden Disk series looks like as well as Black Zarak, the first Titan Selects. I'm hoping for a more detailed package, so we shall see when it comes time for Victory Saber.

Also, Galactus' estimated shipping date is fall 2022. I imagine that Victory Saber will be about the same time. There are 3 Haslabs (Razorcrest, Sentinel, and Heroquest) that are all supposed to ship before end of this year.

o.supreme wrote:While all Selects until now, and even Unicron had a plain brown packaging, we've seen a bit of upscale in the Galactic Odyssey series having more details on the inner package. I am curious to see what the Golden Disk series looks like as well as Black Zarak, the first Titan Selects. I'm hoping for a more detailed package, so we shall see when it comes time for Victory Saber.

Also, Galactus' estimated shipping date is fall 2022. I imagine that Victory Saber will be about the same time. There are 3 Haslabs (Razorcrest, Sentinel, and Heroquest) that are all supposed to ship before end of this year.

I think they said Star Saber ships in December 2022

looks like the legs are on stilts i cant get passed it. they really blew it with that. thats why i wont get it. maybe a painted prototype could change my mind. but not likely

griftimus prime wrote:looks like the legs are on stilts i cant get passed it. they really blew it with that. thats why i wont get it. maybe a painted prototype could change my mind. but not likely

They're boots.

griftimus prime wrote:looks like the legs are on stilts i cant get passed it. they really blew it with that. thats why i wont get it. maybe a painted prototype could change my mind. but not likely

That's how the combination works. Have you not seen Victory Saber before?

The feet looked a little silly in the original renders, but I don't think they look particularly bad on Victory Saber on the prototype. No better or worse than Legends God Ginrai.

I have no doubt they'll come in a brown box which is dumb as all the other HasLab stuff have been in full color boxes.

Emerje

Sabrblade wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:looks like the legs are on stilts i cant get passed it. they really blew it with that. thats why i wont get it. maybe a painted prototype could change my mind. but not likely

They're boots.

Yup, it’s a common combination method for gattai robos. God Ginrai has a similar situation, as well many SS/PR Mecha/Zord combiners as well (Ninninger’s King Shurikenjin and Go-Buster’s Great Buster come to mind). Sometimes it works, sometimes it looks a kid walking with bucket stilts or even snow shoes on.

Emerje wrote:

First-Aid wrote:How big are these figures going to be? Any details? Those pics make it look fairly hefty.

1-inch Brain of Courage Brainmaster figure
5-inch Autobot Saber figure
8.5-inch V-Star jet
7.5-inch Victory Leo figure

If V-Star is 8.5 then Star Saber should be closer to 10" which seems about right when looking at Star Saber and Leo together. Combined they might be closer to 12".



Those display shots make the posing look a lot more appealing, that's for sure. And I like the work around they came up with for Leo's visible hands in VS mode, simple but very effective.

Emerje

Thanks for the clarification, E-man. I am waffling on this, but if its a foot tall or close that may seal it. I feel you get better details with the larger figures and im a details lover.

First time backing a haslab project hope it meets all to goals
Always loved big combiner transformers

I feel like the US price ($180) for this is definitely worth backing, but the UK price (£180) makes it a tough choice. This makes it out to be about £50/$70 difference, and I'd very much like to know where the extra cash is going.

BotsNotPlots wrote:I feel like the US price ($180) for this is definitely worth backing, but the UK price (£180) makes it a tough choice. This makes it out to be about £50/$70 difference, and I'd very much like to know where the extra cash is going.

We've seen this before were hasbro takes another currencies price and just swaps the currency sign. It is weird though ik sure there's a weird/logical business reason behind it...though it could also laziness to having to worry about fluctuating currency conversions

BotsNotPlots wrote:I feel like the US price ($180) for this is definitely worth backing, but the UK price (£180) makes it a tough choice. This makes it out to be about £50/$70 difference, and I'd very much like to know where the extra cash is going.

To be fair (or unfair) that's how ALL transformers are priced in UK and Europe.
You guys get overcharged for reasons.
The cheapest place in the world for Transformers is definitely the USA overall. Why, I have no idea. They all come from the same factories after all.

I saw someone try to explain it as it's because the US price doesn't include tax, but the UK one automatically includes it, plus import fees (I think was the reasoning). I think this reasoning sounds the best, assuming it's true. I'm from the US, and not Hasbro, so I can't say this is accurate, but someone did the math and it seemed to work out to only overcharging by about $40 which is still a lot, but better than $70

Another reason I saw was that it's also because of the nature of exchanging currency, it's a better idea for Hasbro to overcharge because if the pound were to suddenly take a massive hit and loose a lot of value between the charge date and when Victory Saber ships, then they wouldn't actively losing money on a bunch of copies for the UK. That last reason doesn't stand up to logic because then the same would apply to the dollar, but obviously it doesn't, plus they wouldn't lose money because they charge when it ends and therefore would order the materials needed after charging

I think there are some countries covered by Takara or Hasbro in Asia that actually have the lowest prices overall. Possibly because they are physically closer to where the toys are actually manufactured? Robot Kingdom often charges less initially than most retailers. It's just that shipping is so expensive that usually prevents me from using them.

o.supreme wrote:I think there are some countries covered by Takara or Hasbro in Asia that actually have the lowest prices overall. Possibly because they are physically closer to where the toys are actually manufactured? Robot Kingdom often charges less initially than most retailers. It's just that shipping is so expensive that usually prevents me from using them.

In my experience, there have been times where RobotKingdom's lower price was low enough to offset the shipping cost, as the total cost altogether still ended up being cheaper than BBTS's price.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I think there are some countries covered by Takara or Hasbro in Asia that actually have the lowest prices overall. Possibly because they are physically closer to where the toys are actually manufactured? Robot Kingdom often charges less initially than most retailers. It's just that shipping is so expensive that usually prevents me from using them.

In my experience, there have been times where RobotKingdom's lower price was low enough to offset the shipping cost, as the total cost altogether still ended up being cheaper than BBTS's price.

Agreed. But in my experience, those are the exception, not the norm, which is why I said "usually" combined shipping is more expensive. Believe me, I always price compare between RK and most others. Shipping is usually the determining factor. It is nice though, for those that do want to pay a bit more and get their items before Pulse, and all other US retailers.

BotsNotPlots wrote:I feel like the US price ($180) for this is definitely worth backing, but the UK price (£180) makes it a tough choice. This makes it out to be about £50/$70 difference, and I'd very much like to know where the extra cash is going.

Extra cash goes to Hasbro's pockets, it's just the price for your country. Just like how oreo cookies cost half as much in Vietnam as they do in the UK. Price is based on GDP and median income (after considering cost and margins of course), basically what the company determined you can pay for stuff.

It's not 70$ extra though, it's less than that. Since the UK price includes taxes and the US price does not. Its more likearound 50$ extra. And you get to avoid any extra importing fees as well.

I'm so glad we're already over the halfway mark in just a week. Obviously orders are slowing down now but we should be well on pace to finish. I went ahead and ordered a second one to hold onto and eventually resell. The in-person photos look good. I'll be following this project eagerly.

BotsNotPlots wrote:I feel like the US price ($180) for this is definitely worth backing, but the UK price (£180) makes it a tough choice. This makes it out to be about £50/$70 difference, and I'd very much like to know where the extra cash is going.

Depends on where you live. Cost of shipping to England is higher than it is to the US due to multiple factors including distance, time in transit (usually double), and passage through the Suez Canal and associated fees. Another strong possibility is the national sales tax in England (which alone would add £36 if not included in the cost). Those are the most likely ones.

The fact that we are at halfway after a week is all but a guarantee he will make it, and probably obtain all of his extra tiers as well.

I am putting in a guess that the final number of backers will end up around 25,000 total.

I am so glad i backed this. Fingers crossed for it hitting production!

I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

william-james88 wrote:

Moonshot wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Moonshot wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I read the IDW comics and loved them and the only time I remember black shadow is from the Megatron origin story and even then I am told that wasn't black shadow. Couldn't even say when he was in a badass scene as one of Megatron's top guys. So I really don't know him from there then at all. I just picked up the TR toy because it looked great. Still love him.

In MTMTE he was a Phase Sixer that beat up Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus at the same time. Killed hundreds of Autobots that day.

What issue? Optimus Prime is not even in MTMTE since MTMTE happens after "the death of Optimus Prime".
Sounds like Black Shadow was only a mentioned in flashback then, and never part of the main story.

Anyways, Hasbro said there would be more partner sites for Victory Sabre coming out this week. Have any of you seen them? I'd like to write an article linking to all the different campaigns so that anyone in the world can know where to get one, all in one article.

Also, while I do think we'll get that first Tier, that canon is definitely key to the toy. Would be a huge shame for it not to be made. I would have rather it just be included and not have tiers, but I guess tiers are part of the deal with crowd funded things.

DW Optimus Prime didnt actually die in "Death of Optimus Prime". He just started going by Orion Pax again and went into semi-exile. He was in MTMtE in flashbacks and current time.

When did I say he did?

It sure seemed to me u were eluding to that here(also bold above); "Optimus Prime is not even in MTMTE since MTMTE happens after "the death of Optimus Prime"."

However, I never said u did say he died. Just in case u or someone reading it took what u said the same as I did, I thought I would clear it up. What did u mean then if not Optimus had died and that was why he wasnt in MTMtE?

That he is recedes ro the background and no longer goes by Optimus, which is what happens in the story that I put in quotations.

So yeah, Dark Shadow's role in the Roberts comics was beyond minimal.

Black Shadow was killed by the Decepticon Justice Division in their put em over big issue. MTMTE #7 I think.

To be on topic, I'll be doing my Star Saber x2 this week.

My main banking card expires in November. I know I can still make the purchase, and reverify later. however, to avoid all of that, I'll probably just get my new bank card early in October, about a week before the window to back this project closes, and get my new card then, and use it t make the purchase. besides, I have a couple pre-orders that are due early in October, as long as they are not delayed, it should work out perfectly.

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

I don't completely disagree, but I think you are overlooking 2 main points. First comparing the price to MP Starsaber's original price is just an unfair comparison no matter how you look at it. MP Starsaber was made 6 years ago before the MP line changed their pricing format and before the regular generations line did the same. If MP Starsaber was released within the last year, we would at least have a current comparable price (my guess would be around $200-$250 if released today). Generations deluxes could still be gotten for $10 on sale back in 2015 versus $10 for a core class now. Does that mean that core figures should be the size of deluxes because this is what their price point was 6 years ago?

Second is that there really isn't a great standard definition of what makes a Commander Class figure. So far, we just have Jetfire, Sky Lynx and Rodimus Prime to go by. Jetfire was the biggest and simplest, Rodimus was the smallest and by far the most complex, and Sky Lynx is somewhere in the middle. Comparing what we've seen so far, Victory Saber is definitely more materials and more complex than Rodimus Prime so the price going beyond the normal commander price point in into Titan range makes sense.

I have all 3 Commanders so far, and what they have shown for Victory Saber is definitely beyond what any of the 3 commander releases have covered.

Edit: tldr: If you are using prices from 6 years ago as your basis on whether something is worth it to you, the answer will almost always be no.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

I don't completely disagree, but I think you are overlooking 2 main points. First comparing the price to MP Starsaber's original price is just an unfair comparison no matter how you look at it. MP Starsaber was made 6 years ago before the MP line changed their pricing format and before the regular generations line did the same. If MP Starsaber was released within the last year, we would at least have a current comparable price (my guess would be around $200-$250 if released today). Generations deluxes could still be gotten for $10 on sale back in 2015 versus $10 for a core class now. Does that mean that core figures should be the size of deluxes because this is what their price point was 6 years ago?

Second is that there really isn't a great standard definition of what makes a Commander Class figure. So far, we just have Jetfire, Sky Lynx and Rodimus Prime to go by. Jetfire was the biggest and simplest, Rodimus was the smallest and by far the most complex, and Sky Lynx is somewhere in the middle. Comparing what we've seen so far, Victory Saber is definitely more materials and more complex than Rodimus Prime so the price going beyond the normal commander price point in into Titan range makes sense.

I have all 3 Commanders so far, and what they have shown for Victory Saber is definitely beyond what any of the 3 commander releases have covered.

Edit: tldr: If you are using prices from 6 years ago as your basis on whether something is worth it to you, the answer will almost always be no.

What he said.

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

Due to the lack of economies of scale, this toy would never ever give you the same worth of $180 you would see at retail. Ever.

No different than 3p companies charging upwards of $40 for scout sized toys https://tfsource.com/ironfactory/IF-EX49-void-legion/

In both cases, you're paying that price because the sunk cost of making the master mold has less product for that cost to spread out upon.

If you want to ensure you get something worth $180 retail, then just stick to retail.

Of course, you would then miss out on toys like this that would never be found at retail, and that added rarity will definitely play into inflated secondary market prices. So not buying it now if you are slightly interested would backfire when your only chance of experiencing the toy is to spend $400 on e-bay.

Your best bet is to just back it now and if you don't like it when it's released, then just sell it then since there is guaranteed to be new collectors around then that simply were not around when this toy was being backed.

william-james88 wrote:In both cases, you're paying that price because the sunk cost of making the master mold has less product for that cost to spread out upon.

This is the biggest reason for the higher price. For the number of molds that will be required to make this to only get one use ever, likely under 30,000 units, they have to counter that with a higher price. Just at the minimum of 11,000 units they're looking at $1.98M, but the molds alone probably cost them $1M. Factor in material costs (plastics, screws, paints), packaging, factory expenses (facility expenses, wages, etc.), advertising costs (the emails and websites don't make themselves) and shipping and that $980K left gets used up pretty quickly leaving not much for them to actually make a profit.

Emerje

Even if you assume base retail price, Star Saber is a Deluxe (Saber), Commander (Star Saber), and Leader (Victory Leo), which equals $150 pricewise. $180 is a fair price to charge for this considering he's clearly got better engineering than retail figures and has a bunch of extra gimmicks.

Autobot N wrote:Even if you assume base retail price, Star Saber is a Deluxe (Saber), Commander (Star Saber), and Leader (Victory Leo), which equals $150 pricewise. $180 is a fair price to charge for this considering he's clearly got better engineering than retail figures and has a bunch of extra gimmicks.

Naysayers could argue that (like brings all those classes down one notch) and I'd rather not get into what a deluxe/voyager/leader/commander is with this guy since he is very much apart from the set price points for a reason. If people think the price is reasonable, and can work it out as you did, then perfect. But for those still not seeing the numbers add up, it's simpler to just go with the economies of scale notion.

If you're not feeling any toy, just don't get it. Even if everyone else loves it, it's not their collection and not their money. Value is subjective.

I'm still on the fence myself. Mainly because I don't have room and feel like I should stop collecting, especially after Kingdom's done.

But I do like what I'm seeing. IMO, this does seem like it's worth what they're asking for. It's like how people were saying Unicron could have been Titan class because he's about the same height in bot mode. There wound up being a LOT more to him; a lot of weight. VS is doing a lot.

My personal opinion is that if you want a Star Saber, this is likely going you be your best bet for a while. The MP is gonna run you more money, and doesn't come with Victory Leo. Sure you can get that 3P version but then you're getting into double the price before even getting the joint upgrades that are apparently required for the combination to be slightly decent. The other official Star Saber is the robot masters one, which is nowhere near as articulated as this one is, and isn't even deluxe sized. And if you even think about the G1 version, you end up looking at down payments for actually important things. Sure, this one isn't as tall as the MP, and it's made for CHUG scale, but it's kinda defaulted to being the cheapest option, while still being a nice set of figures.

All that said, if you don't think it's worth the money, don't get it. It might get stretch goals like the cannon, and it might get gap fillers, but this it's very likely the way it'll turn out. It's not gonna become MP scale or bigger or anything like that. So if this current package doesn't seem worth it, it probably won't become worth it to you.

I'm backing this bad boy. I love the design of Star Saber, I love how this figure looks, and I love that we're getting almost every gimmick faithfully updated. He is 100% worth the money in my eyes, but I also acknowledge that part of why I'm so excited is because I had basically given up hope of ever getting a new Star Saber after his loss in POTP, and after leakers claimed JG1 was dead in the water. Victory Leo being part of the initial package and not a separate tier or backer reward was icing on the cake for me.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:And if you even think about the G1 version, you end up looking at down payments for actually important things.

Now, if you wanna walk on the dark side there is (or at least, was) a G1 knockoff of Star Saber that was colored correctly. Not one of those "G1 reproductions", but one of the cheaper KOs that came with the brainmaster and the accessories. It was one of the first TFs I got when I was into collecting, so I'm sort of nostalgic for SS in thatw ay.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:And if you even think about the G1 version, you end up looking at down payments for actually important things.

Now, if you wanna walk on the dark side there is (or at least, was) a G1 knockoff of Star Saber that was colored correctly. Not one of those "G1 reproductions", but one of the cheaper KOs that came with the brainmaster and the accessories. It was one of the first TFs I got when I was into collecting, so I'm sort of nostalgic for SS in thatw ay.

Believe me, I've tried looking into that I have awful luck when it comes to finding KOs of things I want

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

I don't completely disagree, but I think you are overlooking 2 main points. First comparing the price to MP Starsaber's original price is just an unfair comparison no matter how you look at it. MP Starsaber was made 6 years ago before the MP line changed their pricing format and before the regular generations line did the same. If MP Starsaber was released within the last year, we would at least have a current comparable price (my guess would be around $200-$250 if released today). Generations deluxes could still be gotten for $10 on sale back in 2015 versus $10 for a core class now. Does that mean that core figures should be the size of deluxes because this is what their price point was 6 years ago?

Second is that there really isn't a great standard definition of what makes a Commander Class figure. So far, we just have Jetfire, Sky Lynx and Rodimus Prime to go by. Jetfire was the biggest and simplest, Rodimus was the smallest and by far the most complex, and Sky Lynx is somewhere in the middle. Comparing what we've seen so far, Victory Saber is definitely more materials and more complex than Rodimus Prime so the price going beyond the normal commander price point in into Titan range makes sense.

I have all 3 Commanders so far, and what they have shown for Victory Saber is definitely beyond what any of the 3 commander releases have covered.

Edit: tldr: If you are using prices from 6 years ago as your basis on whether something is worth it to you, the answer will almost always be no.

I'm not using prices from 6 years ago as my basis for whether this is worth the price Hasbro is charging. I'm using current prices.

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure.

Commander Class figures have generally sold for $90 and voyagers sell for around $30. $90 + $30 = $120

Haslab wants $180 for this set

Just looking at the prototypes, I don't think the quality they are offering matches the price. Victory Leo who I know is more or less an accessory, has visibly hollow thighs and arms. So does Saber. The brainmaster doesn't look like it has any articulation. The guns are visibly hollow, etc.

Starsaber looks good, and the Victory Saber combined mode looks good as well. I just think it look more like $120-140 worth of toys so far, not $180.

And I'm not opposed to spending money when I think it is warranted. I've purchased nearly $2000 worth of Transformers and 3P toys over the last two months. I just like getting good value for my money and I think Hasbro might be trying to pull a fast one.

whacko wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

I don't completely disagree, but I think you are overlooking 2 main points. First comparing the price to MP Starsaber's original price is just an unfair comparison no matter how you look at it. MP Starsaber was made 6 years ago before the MP line changed their pricing format and before the regular generations line did the same. If MP Starsaber was released within the last year, we would at least have a current comparable price (my guess would be around $200-$250 if released today). Generations deluxes could still be gotten for $10 on sale back in 2015 versus $10 for a core class now. Does that mean that core figures should be the size of deluxes because this is what their price point was 6 years ago?

Second is that there really isn't a great standard definition of what makes a Commander Class figure. So far, we just have Jetfire, Sky Lynx and Rodimus Prime to go by. Jetfire was the biggest and simplest, Rodimus was the smallest and by far the most complex, and Sky Lynx is somewhere in the middle. Comparing what we've seen so far, Victory Saber is definitely more materials and more complex than Rodimus Prime so the price going beyond the normal commander price point in into Titan range makes sense.

I have all 3 Commanders so far, and what they have shown for Victory Saber is definitely beyond what any of the 3 commander releases have covered.

Edit: tldr: If you are using prices from 6 years ago as your basis on whether something is worth it to you, the answer will almost always be no.

I'm not using prices from 6 years ago as my basis for whether this is worth the price Hasbro is charging. I'm using current prices.

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure.

Commander Class figures have generally sold for $90 and voyagers sell for around $30. $90 + $30 = $120

Haslab wants $180 for this set

Just looking at the prototypes, I don't think the quality they are offering matches the price. Victory Leo who I know is more or less an accessory, has visibly hollow thighs and arms. So does Saber. The brainmaster doesn't look like it has any articulation. The guns are visibly hollow, etc.

Starsaber looks good, and the Victory Saber combined mode looks good as well. I just think it look more like $120-140 worth of toys so far, not $180.

And I'm not opposed to spending money when I think it is warranted. I've purchased nearly $2000 worth of Transformers and 3P toys over the last two months. I just like getting good value for my money and I think Hasbro might be trying to pull a fast one.

To each his own, but Star Saber seems far more deluxe to me than store bought figures. Maybe you'll feel differently when the painted sample comes.

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

Due to the lack of economies of scale, this toy would never ever give you the same worth of $180 you would see at retail. Ever.

No different than 3p companies charging upwards of $40 for scout sized toys https://tfsource.com/ironfactory/IF-EX49-void-legion/

In both cases, you're paying that price because the sunk cost of making the master mold has less product for that cost to spread out upon.

If you want to ensure you get something worth $180 retail, then just stick to retail.

Of course, you would then miss out on toys like this that would never be found at retail, and that added rarity will definitely play into inflated secondary market prices. So not buying it now if you are slightly interested would backfire when your only chance of experiencing the toy is to spend $400 on e-bay.

Your best bet is to just back it now and if you don't like it when it's released, then just sell it then since there is guaranteed to be new collectors around then that simply were not around when this toy was being backed.

Sorry friend, but this just sounds like a load of B$ to me.

You're rambling on about the "economies of scale" without any knowledge whatsoever regarding how many of these toys Hasbro will actually end up making. They could get 40,000 backers (not likely, but possible) and then the "economies of scale" swing radically in the opposite direction than it would had they just barely hit their 11,000 backer goal. Also consider that Haslab only serves North America, and there is zero chance that this character will not also be offered (eventually) to Japanese collectors and likely to other retailers across the globe.

How many Commander Class Kingdom Rodimus Prime toys did Hasbro manufacture? Do you know for certain that they made more than 11,000 of them? How would the economy of scale of that figure be significantly different than this figure?

I agree that once the crowd funding campaign is over, people who missed out are going to be trying to buy them on the secondary market. Time will tell if the price goes up significantly but I'm not really worried about "making my money back" if I decide I don't want the toy.

I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to continue offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it.

How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

whacko wrote:How many Earthrise Kingdom Rodimus Prime toys did Hasbro manufacture? Do you know for certain that they made more than 11,000 of them? How would the economy of scale of that figure be significantly different than this figure?

I asked this exact question, I wish I knew. However I'm told, we don't know the exact answer, Hasbro doesn't make such things public. But it seems to be a safe bet that any mass retail toy would be produced at a high enough quantity to justify the making of the mold, so probably more than any crowdfunding would need. Also there are the prospects of using the mold multiple times (A Selects Primus toy, or SG Rodimus for instance could both be a reuse for Kingdom Rodimus)

Victory Saber (Like Unicron) will presumably only have one use, and not be used to make repaints of other characters because none really fit that mold

whacko wrote:I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to stop offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it. How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

This is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Just because YOU didn't like CW doesn't mean everyone felt the same way, also the prices of the toys back then were less expensive. the main issue most seem to have with CW was it's repetition. Still, it did not suffer form many of the overall QC issues that WFC toys have had.

Smaller independent retailers like Super 7 do this all the time. Their toys are way more expensive because they are selling to a smaller market, so before they make a mold and produce a toy, they have to absolutely know it is going to be profitable first. Whether or not Victory Saber will be 2, 3 or more times it's current value in the secondary market is of little concern to me as well. Still I'd rather have this Haslab Project, than convention and club exclusives that were far more expensive, yet no new molds were made, except for perhaps a small head swap tool on occasion.

Still nobody is under obligation. If you don't want to purchase one, then by all means don't. I didn't purchase Unicron for various reasons already stated, but I am very happy for those that did, and are satisfied with it. Victory Saber (Star Saber and Victory Leo), happen to be characters I've wanted modern updates for a very long time, and frankly never thought would happen. Also It is priced in a range that is reasonable for *me* (not everyone will agree) so yes I am, giving this Haslab my support.

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Don't forget Kingdom Rodimus also being a "Voyager"

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Don't forget Kingdom Rodimus also being a "Voyager"

Fokkit, ALL Transformers are voyageurs because they got shipped around the globe at one point or another.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Don't forget Kingdom Rodimus also being a "Voyager"

Fokkit, ALL Transformers are voyageurs because they got shipped around the globe at one point or another.

Space... The final frontier... These are the Voyagers of the HasLab enterprise...

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

So by your argument Modulators/Weaponizers/Fossilizers should cost more than other Deluxe class figures because they have robot, vehicle/base modes and break apart to form weapons and armor? Also, we've had voyager class triple changers in Titans Return and Power of the Primes. They were priced the same as any other voyager even though they had 3 forms and not just 2.

Haslab isn't open to the entire globe. I forgot that they expanded to the UK but the Haslab website states that they only ship to North America and the UK, and that is very far from "open to the entire globe."

https://hasbropulse.com/pages/shipping-return-policy

https://uk.hasbropulse.com/pages/delivery-return-policy

I guess people could back the project, have the product shipped to a U.S./CA or U.K address and then have a peson or company ship it to their country for them, but that isn't exactly the same thing as being "open to the entire globe."

o.supreme wrote:
Victory Saber (Like Unicron) will presumably only have one use, and not be used to make repaints of other characters because none really fit that mold

whacko wrote:I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to stop offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it. How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

This is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Just because YOU didn't like CW doesn't mean everyone felt the same way, also the prices of the toys back then were less expensive. the main issue most seem to have with CW was it's repetition. Still, it did not suffer form many of the overall QC issues that WFC toys have had.

Smaller independent retailers like Super 7 do this all the time. Their toys are way more expensive because they are selling to a smaller market, so before they make a mold and produce a toy, they have to absolutely know it is going to be profitable first. Whether or not Victory Saber will be 2, 3 or more times it's current value in the secondary market is of little concern to me as well. Still I'd rather have this Haslab Project, than convention and club exclusives that were far more expensive, yet no new molds were made, except for perhaps a small head swap tool on occasion.

Still nobody is under obligation. If you don't want to purchase one, then by all means don't. I didn't purchase Unicron for various reasons already stated, but I am very happy for those that did, and are satisfied with it. Victory Saber (Star Saber and Victory Leo), happen to be characters I've wanted modern updates for a very long time, and frankly never thought would happen. Also It is priced in a range that is reasonable for *me* (not everyone will agree) so yes I am, giving this Haslab my support.

I am not saying that people didn't like Combiner Wars. I have nearly every Combiner Wars toy sold, and many of the Unite Warriors versions as well.

However it isn't conjecture or opinion to state that those toys were significantly lower quality than Transformers toys that came immediately before the series or since. Plastic was thinner, articulation was extremely limited on deluxe class figures, joints were weak across the field, mold reuse was taken to crazy levels, and over the last 5-7 years the plastic of the deluxe class toys has become brittle and begun to decay. Plastic decays over time anyway, but I have toys from 2003 that are still in nearly new condition while many of my Combiner Wars toys have cracks just from being in storage.

I have basically all of the WFC toys as well, and while they haven't been free from QC issues the overall quality of the toys is much higher than Combiner Wars was. Not just with regards to design and articulation (remember, many CW deluxes didn't even have real FEET!), but also plastic quality and durability for the most part.

As I've stated I have already backed the Victory Saber campaign, but I think that this particular figure could have been released in the mainline at mainline prices instead of being crowd funded at the current $180 price point. I still don't see $180 worth of toy in this campaign yet. Maybe paint and additional accessories would add value but it would be nice if Hasbro was more forthcoming with those details BEFORE the crowd funding campaign ends.

I bet the "full value" of the toy will only be reached once all tiers get unlocked.

whacko wrote:

o.supreme wrote:
Victory Saber (Like Unicron) will presumably only have one use, and not be used to make repaints of other characters because none really fit that mold

whacko wrote:I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to stop offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it. How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

This is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Just because YOU didn't like CW doesn't mean everyone felt the same way, also the prices of the toys back then were less expensive. the main issue most seem to have with CW was it's repetition. Still, it did not suffer form many of the overall QC issues that WFC toys have had.

Smaller independent retailers like Super 7 do this all the time. Their toys are way more expensive because they are selling to a smaller market, so before they make a mold and produce a toy, they have to absolutely know it is going to be profitable first. Whether or not Victory Saber will be 2, 3 or more times it's current value in the secondary market is of little concern to me as well. Still I'd rather have this Haslab Project, than convention and club exclusives that were far more expensive, yet no new molds were made, except for perhaps a small head swap tool on occasion.

Still nobody is under obligation. If you don't want to purchase one, then by all means don't. I didn't purchase Unicron for various reasons already stated, but I am very happy for those that did, and are satisfied with it. Victory Saber (Star Saber and Victory Leo), happen to be characters I've wanted modern updates for a very long time, and frankly never thought would happen. Also It is priced in a range that is reasonable for *me* (not everyone will agree) so yes I am, giving this Haslab my support.

I am not saying that people didn't like Combiner Wars. I have nearly every Combiner Wars toy sold, and many of the Unite Warriors versions as well.

However it isn't conjecture or opinion to state that those toys were significantly lower quality than Transformers toys that came immediately before the series or since. Plastic was thinner, articulation was extremely limited on deluxe class figures, joints were weak across the field, mold reuse was taken to crazy levels, and over the last 5-7 years the plastic of the deluxe class toys has become brittle and begun to decay. Plastic decays over time anyway, but I have toys from 2003 that are still in nearly new condition while many of my Combiner Wars toys have cracks just from being in storage.

I have basically all of the WFC toys as well, and while they haven't been free from QC issues the overall quality of the toys is much higher than Combiner Wars was. Not just with regards to design and articulation (remember, many CW deluxes didn't even have real FEET!), but also plastic quality and durability for the most part.

As I've stated I have already backed the Victory Saber campaign, but I think that this particular figure could have been released in the mainline at mainline prices instead of being crowd funded at the current $180 price point. I still don't see $180 worth of toy in this campaign yet. Maybe paint and additional accessories would add value but it would be nice if Hasbro was more forthcoming with those details BEFORE the crowd funding campaign ends.

If I may, third party websites are already selling the toy as well (their backing numbers are added towards the end, same as with Unicron) so, yes given the spread of websites that are offering Starsaber, I would say it's world wide.

Also cw was designed to feature heavy mold reuse as that was how Warden pitched it to get Hasbro's approval, hence why he was allowed to do more in future lines culminating in his Swan song of the WfC Trilogy.

If hasbro had wanted this to be mainline retail, it would have been mainline retall (and likely suffered as a result, same as leader class Rodimus Prime would have) however Hashro clearly didn't feel like it would sell (I don't think they were wrong.)

Part of the problem here is one of comparison, you keep comparing to mainline retail Price points, which have been evolving these past few years to give priority to bot mode scale. You may as well compare apples to oranges for all the good it will do.

However, this is your choice at the end of the day, and as pointed out, you won't have a hard time flipping it after the fact (along as you don't go too stupid with the asking price like some people with unicron)