First Global Sighting of Transformers Power of the Primes Prime Masters Wave 3

Skritz wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:(Snipped)

A damn shame we didn't end up seeing some of these pretooled heads at mass retail, especially Nemesis Prime since that was one cool headsculpt. Suppose that does explain the 'anomaly' that is PotP Inferno, however, given how he's such and oddball being a simplistic retool of CW Hot Spot as opposed to the completely retooled and 'reshelled' Hun-Gurr.

Wouldnt that be the same as a compeltely retooled Silverbolt?

Also, it kinda makes sense that of all the torsos one would use for Inferno, it would be the one that turns into a "fire truck".

i love the power of the primes lineeven if i cant afford any

o.supreme wrote:Also, just wanted to throw out. Am I right, that wave 2 Power Masters have not hit mass market retail in the United States? (I'm not talking about small isolated sightings, but major ones such as Walmart or Target)...Sad those are really the only 2 places to get TF toys now, at least in my area.

FWIW these hit my local Meijer just this weekend. The last Submarauder and one of the last Landmines.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Even if Inferno is a "holdover" from Combiner Wars that didn't see release until now, Hasbro still did a little bit to align this older mold with their newer design philosophy. Unlike any uses of the mold in Combiner Wars, Inferno sports the dreaded sticker details from the latter half of Titans Return and all of Power of the Primes to present. I suppose this was an extremely easy adjustment to make, unlike, say, remolding the figure to accommodate the Enigma of Combination play pattern of PotP Grimlock, Starscream, Elita One, and Hun-Gurrr.

You know the Stickers are the one thing that really makes me sad about this line, especially when you look at Starscream and those two things on the sides of his head, because not only is it a sticker, it's not a flat surface for the sticker, so it's just kind of hanging off.

I hope we eventually get that Hoist and Sideswipe... somehow... somewhere.

already ordered plane tickets to wherever this is

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote: I see more and more comments about how Studio Series seems to be clogging up shelves and taking space away from PotP. I've been told this isn't true or correct, but the more I see, I cant help but believe it.

I see more and more comments about how having stricter gun laws wouldnt change anything in the US but anyone who can read stats and look at actual facts knows that's bogus. The truth is unless you have actual insight from Walmart, none of us know what is going on. What you describe is a current occurence with no hint of causality. the US skipped TLK wave 4 deluxes. Is it because of POTP wave 1? Is it because of the generations line that a fan was deprived of his precious cogman toy? Its all nonsense.

If we just think logically though, the fact that they have different product SKUs makes the presence of one irrelevant over the presence of the other. And we are seeing a lack of wave 2 all across the globe, including Canada, a place which has a ton of shelf space at TRU. So instead, I think there is an issue at the supplier level, thats where logic is guiding me at the moment. Especially since Wave 3 Prime Masters have been found elsewhere in the world. Meaning stores are ordering more and Hasbro is giving what they have and it aint wave 2. Why, I dont know.

wj88. I always appreciate your insights, but please don't bring politics into this. I am unique in that I am apolitical. As a citizen of the United States I have never registered to vote, and never will. I have known since I was a child that the system is broken, and just work to be the best person I can to make where I live a better place. Every comment I see in the news targeting one party or the other only makes them more abhorrent to me. You being a Canadian citizen I'm sure can appreciate that. Also again, I only go by what I see. I didn't say I had the answer, and I know you don't either. I just see what I see. maybe Hasbro just flat out slowed production of PotP at the factory level in favor of SS, who knows. I just see stores flooded with this new brand of toy SS toy product, and the one I wanted, basically not there. I wish someone at Hasbro was accessible so it could be explained.

But that answer doesn't make sense given what others are reporting. Sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture which means looking at the situation in other areas. Hasbro want both toy lines to sell, so it simply doesn't make sense why they would willingly favour one or the other since they want rid of both. Now if the shops think the movie stuff sell more then that's what they'll order more of. The simplest answer is often the right one

Occam's Razor is my favorite tool to address a proverbial Gordian Knot!

I just realized something with Inferno: this is a missed opportunity to make a "G1" Infernocus. Really, Inferno --> Infernocus, and his limbs could be the Infernobots.

With as far from source material as the movies get, this is completely legitimate

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I just realized something with Inferno: this is a missed opportunity to make a "G1" Infernocus. Really, Inferno --> Infernocus, and his limbs could be the Infernobots.

With as far from source material as the movies get, this is completely legitimate

Actually, it would be kind of fun if Hasbro did a Studio Series Infernocus box set. They could do it just like the TLK one for TRU, but now that we have deluxe sized G1 Terrorcons with Power of the Primes, they could just repaint them as they did the Legion sized versions from Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters and make a new mold for the torso, in this case a new Voyager sized mold. It would be in keeping, somewhat, with Hasbro's mission to keep robot mode characters in rough scale with one another for the Studio Series. A CW sized Infernicus would still tower over most single bots, even leader sized ones, which should be "big enough" for the right sizing effect.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I just realized something with Inferno: this is a missed opportunity to make a "G1" Infernocus. Really, Inferno --> Infernocus, and his limbs could be the Infernobots.

With as far from source material as the movies get, this is completely legitimate

Actually, it would be kind of fun if Hasbro did a Studio Series Infernocus box set. They could do it just like the TLK one for TRU, but now that we have deluxe sized G1 Horrorcons with Power of the Primes, they could just repaint them as they did the Legion sized versions from Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters and make a new mold for the torso, in this case a new Voyager sized mold. It would be in keeping, somewhat, with Hasbro's mission to keep robot mode characters in rough scale with one another for the Studio Series. A CW sized Infernicus would still tower over most single bots, even leader sized ones, which should be "big enough" for the right sizing effect.

I also realized something, which you sort of touched on: the original Infernocus did use the Prime Terrorcons as limbs, so in theory, this "G1" Infernocus could be Inferno with Terrorcon limbs, thus arriving at an Infernocus!

Oh man, now I really want to try that before I create Abominus

Cool name for combined mode! Ha.

As for the beast repaints, I'm much more cheering for Monstructor and Dinoking repaints and retools before movie Infernocus toys.

I AM still hoping they eventually get around to fleshing out his limbs. Same with Starscream and Elita-One. Hope they direct some retools and repaints to conventions and online exclusives ... if they can't get them out to the box store shelves. We could still see Wreck Gar, a USA release of Ratchet, Sideswipe, Red Alert... those are all white/red/orange. Would look great. (And of course, Hoist still outstanding, too.)

For Starscream, I'd love to see a Buster and Hydra minor repaint. Would make for a great gestalt with the other two. (Or a full set of deluxe seekers to mix and match.)

Plus the last two femmebots from the show. Heck, I'd take a repaint as Arial with the robo-ponytail, too.

Blitzwing is bae wrote:already ordered plane tickets to wherever this is

What do you do, call a travel agent and say, "send me where the new Transformers are"? That's a heck of a service, but eBay is probably cheaper.

Emerje

... No comments on how Takara Inferno uses Starscream's Foot Armor and not Hun-Gurr's?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:... No comments on how Takara Inferno uses Starscream's Foot Armor and not Hun-Gurr's?

Hasbro is using the same foot, they just used the wrong one in displays and box art.



Emerje

Where does hasbro suggest putting the enigma of combination then? I don't know why they've included one if it can't be used in the gestalt form.

ZeroWolf wrote:Where does hasbro suggest putting the enigma of combination then? I don't know why they've included one if it can't be used in the gestalt form.

I wonder if they put a hexagonal port on the back so you could pop it on the same way you would legends Groove. It would look lame, like he had a crumb stuck to his belly, but I could see it.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I just realized something with Inferno: this is a missed opportunity to make a "G1" Infernocus. Really, Inferno --> Infernocus, and his limbs could be the Infernobots.

With as far from source material as the movies get, this is completely legitimate

Actually, it would be kind of fun if Hasbro did a Studio Series Infernocus box set. They could do it just like the TLK one for TRU, but now that we have deluxe sized G1 Horrorcons with Power of the Primes, they could just repaint them as they did the Legion sized versions from Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters and make a new mold for the torso, in this case a new Voyager sized mold. It would be in keeping, somewhat, with Hasbro's mission to keep robot mode characters in rough scale with one another for the Studio Series. A CW sized Infernicus would still tower over most single bots, even leader sized ones, which should be "big enough" for the right sizing effect.

I also realized something, which you sort of touched on: the original Infernocus did use the Prime Terrorcons as limbs, so in theory, this "G1" Infernocus could be Inferno with Terrorcon limbs, thus arriving at an Infernocus!

Oh man, now I really want to try that before I create Abominus

Oops, I meant the Terrorcons (Sinnertwin, Blot, Cutthroat, and Rippersnapper), of course, not the Horrorcons (Apeface and Snapdragon). Easy to get those group names mixed up. >.<

o.supreme wrote:wj88. I always appreciate your insights, but please don't bring politics into this. I am unique in that I am apolitical. As a citizen of the United States I have never registered to vote, and never will. I have known since I was a child that the system is broken, and just work to be the best person I can to make where I live a better place. Every comment I see in the news targeting one party or the other only makes them more abhorrent to me. You being a Canadian citizen I'm sure can appreciate that. Also again, I only go by what I see. I didn't say I had the answer, and I know you don't either. I just see what I see. maybe Hasbro just flat out slowed production of PotP at the factory level in favor of SS, who knows. I just see stores flooded with this new brand of toy SS toy product, and the one I wanted, basically not there. I wish someone at Hasbro was accessible so it could be explained.

And in return, I appreciate everything you bring to these boards as well. I didnt mean to get political but I was looking for an anology of people saying a bunch of things but it not being backed up and I knew if I said something like "earth is flat" it would be dumb and demean what you were saying which is never my intention. Its pretty cool that you are apolitical and I respect that. From an outsider looking in, the USA looks nuts on both sides. Not in the values but in how people treat eachother. The Left only shows the worst examples from the right and vice versa, making it hard for anyone to get a well rounded idea at what the political parties entail. I just sense so much hate and disgust. I mean, you are all in this together, none of that helps. So yes, I completely see where you are coming from.

Moving on, I actually do know someone who is in charge of merchandise (like what is stocked) at Walmart, at the corporate level. I dont know if our questions will be too micro for her, but we will see. From what she told me in the past, its usually up to whatever the supplier gives when fulfilling a SKU. So either Walmart didnt order more of Generations in General, or they arent getting any at the moment from hasbro. It does bring us at the same spot right now, but it would be good to know what the usual trend is. And yes, the number of people making these toys is finite so they cant make everything at the same time, thats a good point.

william-james88 wrote:Moving on, I actually do know someone who is in charge of merchandise (like what is stocked) at Walmart, at the corporate level. I dont know if our questions will be too micro for her, but we will see. From what she told me in the past, its usually up to whatever the supplier gives when fulfilling a SKU. So either Walmart didnt order more of Generations in General, or they arent getting any at the moment from hasbro. It does bring us at the same spot right now, but it would be good to know what the usual trend is. And yes, the number of people making these toys is finite so they cant make everything at the same time, thats a good point.

I posed to Scotty that the Twincast Look into doing an interview segment with Hasbro and or someone iin the retailer side. It could be a dry topic, and they may not be ab;e to answer a lot of questions given trade secrets, but this topic of “Dude, where’s my Transformers?” Seems to come up a lot and maybe they could shed light on wave breakdowns and why like, for example TR W5 got run over by the Revision Case instead. Or why we are still not seeing W2 of PotP in saturation yet.

One question: seems like we got W1 hella early. When SHOULD we have been gettting W2? Is there a “Street date” for these that just got flat out ignored?

Thing about this stocking stuff too is we don’t know where the breakdown is. If there even is one. Even if Walmart Corporate is ordering and receiving W2, that doesn’t to my VRY limited understanding get distributed evenly across the regional hubs. And they in turn don’t distribute consistently across the local hubs, but restock those hubs whenever they order. And in turn, the physical stores get their stock from the local distribution as needed, not universally. So a systole that sees a lot of collector traffic is getting TFs more frequently than another in an adjacent area. And it could be, if Generations restocking IS slowed down by Hasbro or the retail corporate, demand could be siphoning the new stuff to certain regions and specific areas before saturation can take hold in other parts of the country. But even if that IS the case, it seems a new trend and still comes back to the question of is Hasbro not producing as much, or is it not being ordered as heavily? Or what?

Does that rambling even make sense to anyone else?

I still don't believe that hasbro will have slowed production down, as I say they want both products to sell.

Just got back from my local toys'r'us here in Switzerland after hunting for some POTP figures. I'm not really all that interested in any of them, but was curious to see what they had. To my shock they were still selling Combiner Wars figures, at full price!
No idea if Transformers are selling this badly here or if they just didn't bother ordering anything.
The rest of the store was stocked fairly well with new products (Lego etc), so idk what's going on there But I guess I'll have to stick to importing, which is a shame

Regarding the enigma and other trinkets... I wish this third of the trilogy would have had more insight and lore around the bits and bobbles. Having some comics or bios or a paragraph on the box detailing what swapping out a little cube would do to a gestalt would make me more excited about them.

It's too bad they couldn't include an unlock feature like Powermasters. (Who knows. That might have been their plan from the start, and budget knocked the feature out during production.)

That said, I wish we got more of the various objects from the shows. I'd love to see a concerted effort to create the artifacts and parts from Transformers history in the upcoming line. Seems like it would be a good fit.

Talking about the Star Saber, Requiem Blaster, Enigma of Combination, Matrix of Leadership (yes, we've gotten this one), Key to Vector Sigma, Key to the Plasma Energy Chamber... plus Metroplex's Eyes, Transformation Cogs...

Flashwave wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Moving on, I actually do know someone who is in charge of merchandise (like what is stocked) at Walmart, at the corporate level. I dont know if our questions will be too micro for her, but we will see. From what she told me in the past, its usually up to whatever the supplier gives when fulfilling a SKU. So either Walmart didnt order more of Generations in General, or they arent getting any at the moment from hasbro. It does bring us at the same spot right now, but it would be good to know what the usual trend is. And yes, the number of people making these toys is finite so they cant make everything at the same time, thats a good point.

I posed to Scotty that the Twincast Look into doing an interview segment with Hasbro and or someone iin the retailer side. It could be a dry topic, and they may not be ab;e to answer a lot of questions given trade secrets, but this topic of “Dude, where’s my Transformers?” Seems to come up a lot and maybe they could shed light on wave breakdowns and why like, for example TR W5 got run over by the Revision Case instead. Or why we are still not seeing W2 of PotP in saturation yet.

One question: seems like we got W1 hella early. When SHOULD we have been gettting W2? Is there a “Street date” for these that just got flat out ignored?

Thing about this stocking stuff too is we don’t know where the breakdown is. If there even is one. Even if Walmart Corporate is ordering and receiving W2, that doesn’t to my VRY limited understanding get distributed evenly across the regional hubs. And they in turn don’t distribute consistently across the local hubs, but restock those hubs whenever they order. And in turn, the physical stores get their stock from the local distribution as needed, not universally. So a systole that sees a lot of collector traffic is getting TFs more frequently than another in an adjacent area. And it could be, if Generations restocking IS slowed down by Hasbro or the retail corporate, demand could be siphoning the new stuff to certain regions and specific areas before saturation can take hold in other parts of the country. But even if that IS the case, it seems a new trend and still comes back to the question of is Hasbro not producing as much, or is it not being ordered as heavily? Or what?

Does that rambling even make sense to anyone else?

First of all, thanks WJ

Secondly, Flashwave. yes I'd love some insider info, whether it be from Hasbro, or a distributor, or a retail insider from someone high up at Walmart, Target etc...to really understand what the ordering process is, why things happen the way they do, and the "best way" (if there is such a thing) to obtain the toys we like, preferably at MSRP or less . I've heard dozens of theories. Some make sense, and some don't. I believe in equal distribution, worldwide if possible, I know that may not be realistic, but obviously since the topic comes up so often, I think it would be fascinating to get some real information.

Yeah, I've actually given up finding toys locally now. Pretty sad day to just accept defeat and stop shopping. Finding toys on the shelf always was an exciting thing.

As for what I'd ask Hasbro, still popping up in my mind is what the designers intended for these recent gestalts... their names, personalities, configurations. We've gotten three released with no logic to their limbs, and no names for the combined mode. I know SOMEONE on staff has to have had a plan for these... even if it derailed on the way out the door.

gothsaurus wrote:Regarding the enigma and other trinkets... I wish this third of the trilogy would have had more insight and lore around the bits and bobbles. Having some comics or bios or a paragraph on the box detailing what swapping out a little cube would do to a gestalt would make me more excited about them.

It's too bad they couldn't include an unlock feature like Powermasters. (Who knows. That might have been their plan from the start, and budget knocked the feature out during production.)

That said, I wish we got more of the various objects from the shows. I'd love to see a concerted effort to create the artifacts and parts from Transformers history in the upcoming line. Seems like it would be a good fit.

Talking about the Star Saber, Requiem Blaster, Enigma of Combination, Matrix of Leadership (yes, we've gotten this one), Key to Vector Sigma, Key to the Plasma Energy Chamber... plus Metroplex's Eyes, Transformation Cogs...

Well I know the Enigma was part of the whole Botcon 2016 Build-a-Figure package. So the mold is there for future use. Some of the other relics you mentioned started out as MiniCon teams in Armada, so 8technically* they have appeared before, sure not as the Cybertronion relics we know now...but the next line may look into these more, or a 3P company may even now be developing them. Still a reasonably priced Generations "accessory pack" of sorts I think would be a novel idea. It worked for Motu back in the day.

o.supreme wrote:Well I know the Enigma was part of the whole Botcon 2016 Build-a-Figure package. So the mold is there for future use.

Except that particular Enigma accessory wasn't a Hasbro piece. Each one was handcrafted by Japanese fan Myu, so Hasbro wouldn't have access to that accessory.

o.supreme wrote:Some of the other relics you mentioned started out as MiniCon teams in Armada, so 8technically* they have appeared before, sure not as the Cybertronion relics we know now...

There were lots of Star Saber accessories released in the TF: Prime toylines.

o.supreme wrote:but the next line may look into these more,

With this line being themed around the Thirteen Primes and their personal artifacts, this would be the ideal line for them to be in.

Yeah, I know some of these have appeared before through the years (like the enigma from the class that is 3D printed I believe, so don't think there is a "mold" per se.)

But my point really is wanting to see Hasbro approach them as a collection of artifacts UNDER ONE LINE so they match and look good together and make sense. (As opposed to a bunch of jet minicons stuck together... and a white 3-d printed thing... and a repainted Bayverse sword... and a...) Ideally, they'd all be part of a quest or plot device for the line, spelling out an exciting, planet-spanning, time-traveling treasure hunt.

But you are right that it's unlikely. There IS probably a better chance seeing it out of a third party than Hasbro going that route.

Here's hoping they at least nail the G1 cybertronian modes from the early cartoons. I know those Tetrajets have been hard to pin down in toy form.

The more we learn of this toyline, the more I suspect that there was a lot left on the cutting room floor. Everything about this line just feels so rushed and incomplete. It's a toyline centered around the Primes, and instead of actual figures, we got pseudo Titan Masters. Instead of Combiner Wars 2.0, we got two full gestalts and a bunch of random combiner pieces. The design team is always very tight lipped with development details (probably due to NDAs), which makes the whole situation even more confusing.

I was going to say we already have a star saber (in different colours and I think a version came with beast hunters voyager optimus) and requiem blaster (again in different colours) but os beat me to it though I wonder why the skyboom shield never got any love

Yeah, LoreKeeper, it does feel like the line got cut short. I hope they find some way to finish it out as intended, even if it's by directing leftover toys to BBTS or Amazon. I want those other two femmebot limbs! I'd also love some box set trios of seeker limbs (from the ghost scarscream mold). Maybe for SDCC or a store exclusive? (Or a KO company if Hasbro doesn't have plans for this?)

And thanks ZeroWolf.... the SkyBoom Shield was another I was trying to think of.

And as mentioned above, I KNOW many of these have come out across decades as Minicons, convention exclusives and Bayverse accessories. My point is wanting to see these relics IN ONE DESIGN AESTHETIC and... you know, as the lines "MacGuffin." I want the weapons to match... and look good with CHUG/CW/TR/POTP toys... and have a coherent story.

(Hopefully a 3P will read this and make some. I know it's pretty much wishful thinking.)

Yeah, a unified-looking set of Prime Relics would be cool. The Star Sabre I'm actually cool with using the Armada version for (though ATM the only complete version of that I have is the Energon Sabre; I do have the Dark Sabre too but one of the members has a broken leg), I like the idea that it was made of three independent Transformers to try and avoid it falling into the wrong hands. The Requiem Blaster though I feel needs a proper version. I like the look of the old Armada mold, but not as the legendary cursed relic of the Fallen.

That aside, in terms of relics and how to represent them...

(Note: This is based on my interpretation more than any existing official canon, please forgive any flagrant lore violations...)

>Alpha Trion: Alpha Trion's sword could work for the Quill; nobody said it had to be a literal quill. For all we know the name is intentionally misleading so that evildoers underestimate Alpha Trion's power. As for the Covenant of Primus, I'd perhaps say that the Alpha Trion Prime Master (AKA the "Matrix of Wisdom") is a transmuted form of the original Covenant. The sarcophagus' gun mode, meanwhile, could be a "brainwave blaster", not really a conventional weapon per se, but able to impart knowledge- or extract it- from any entity.
>Vector Prime: Rhisling is already represented canonically in the form of the sword that comes with Cybertron Vector Prime. His Prime Master could be the "Matrix of Time" whilst the weapon mode of the sarcophagus is a "Key of the Chronomancer" and essentially functions like a portal gun except with time.
>Quintus Prime: The Emberstone could realistically be made fairly easily out of any sufficiently blingy trinket- a marble or a cheap piece of crystal would do. His Prime Master could form the "Matrix of Judgement", whilst the Bludgeon sarcophagus' tetsubo mode could be reimagined as the "Judicator", a weapon that will only wound those guilty of a previously-quantified crime. I've always liked the idea of Quintus Prime as being the upholder of justice amongst the Primes, along with his creations the Quintessons (shortly before everything all went spectacularly wrong), thus the whole judgement theme.
>Alchemist Prime/Chemos Prime: The Lenses are described as being affixed to his face. However If one were to represent them separately from him (which would make sense depending on his fate; I headcanon that he later became the wandering bringer of pesitlence known as Toxitron following his demise and the capture of his spark by Liege Maximo) I'm not sure how you'd do it. The Figma of Drossel von Flugel from Fireball Charming comes with an astrology staff that could be theoretically used but it's not 5mm, it's fragile for such a purpose (it's very much intended for display) and the figure is very pricey! As for his Prime Master, I'd call it the "Matrix of Learning" and christen the sarcophagus-weapon as the "Alchemist's Trident", which is equal parts weapon and scientific implement.
>Liege Maximo: Whilst he is described as being armed with the "Liegian Darts" I'd be tempted to represent these with Fakebusker's Shapeways spiker gun (intended for the Dreads) and paint it up in Liege Maximo-y colours. The Prime Master could represent the "Matrix of Corruption" and the sarcophagus could be the "Claw of Command", which allows the bearer to dominate the will of any being. That aside I don't think he needs many relics- his greatest weapon is his incomparable mastery of language and unparalleled manipulativeness.
>Solus Prime: The Forge is easy enough to represent; Fakebusker made a Shapeways version of it. The Creation Lathe less so because it's not actually a physical object so much as projected energy from her body. The Prime Master could represent her "Matrix of Creation" (perhaps the source of power for the Lathe) whilst the Octopunch sarcophagus weapon thing could be the "Life Giver", a sacred implement that possesses the ability to give a spark to any machine.
>The Fallen: His Requiem Blaster should be represented by a suitably sinister and impressive looking weapon. I'd say Fakebusker's version of Sentinel Prime's Cosmic Rust gun painted differently would do the job nicely. As for his Prime Master, the Matrix could be the "Matrix of Conquest" whilst the claw weapon could be the "Hand of Chaos".
>Micronus Prime: Whilst he is described as possessing a "Chimera Stone" I think Micronus works best if he is represented solely by the Prime Master (also forming his own "Matrix of Unity"), whilst his sarcophagus weapon forms the "Equalizer", a device that can either give or take power from the target.
>Amalgamous Prime: There is no Prime Master at the moment, so that's awkward. His only known relic is the Scythe, which takes any form it wishes so technically could be represented by literally any weapon you so desire.
>Nexus Prime: Again, no Prime Master yet. The Enigmas of Combination that come with POTP Voyagers could make for relics, though for the original I'd be tempted to wait until we eventually get a Nexus PM. The Cyber Calibur, however, could be represented either by Fakebusker's rather neat set of combining Dinobot swords or by the PerfectEffect combining sword addon for Volcanicus. Or even Megatronia/Victorion's sword if you so wished.
>Prima: No Prime Master for him either, though really any version of the Matrix of Leadership could be his relic. As for the Star Sabre there are various toys of it, though I personally like the UT version for reasons mentioned earlier.
>Onyx Prime: The Prime Master for him rather annoyingly only comes with Predaking, which means not only no sarcophagus (Booo!) but also you have to buy a very expensive toy you might not actually want to get the little Matrix dude. So the "Matrix of Honour" is gonna be difficult to get. As far as Onyx' other relics though, I'll be representing him with Cybertron Scourge, and his Tryptych Mask will be represented by the three dragon heads on him.
>The Thirteenth Prime: In my headcanon, the Thirteenth is a position to be occupied rather than an actual individual, and the first of the Thirteenth was Sentinel Prime. Thus, aside from the Matrix of Leadership passed down to him by Prima/Primus from within the core of Cybertron, the relics of the Thirteenth are essentially whatever the current bearer is wielding.

...Well that was unnecessarily complicated. Oh well.

gothsaurus wrote:Regarding the enigma and other trinkets... I wish this third of the trilogy would have had more insight and lore around the bits and bobbles. Having some comics or bios or a paragraph on the box detailing what swapping out a little cube would do to a gestalt would make me more excited about them.

While we didn't get any information about the various Enigmas of Combination in the Power of the Primes line, we did get descriptions of how the Prime Masters interact with each of the Legends, Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader figures in the form of trading cards. Sure, with all the possible combinations out there, being that there are 12 (or 13) potential Prime Master powers, it relies on "trading" the information with your friends to get the general story of how these powers of ancient Transformers are wielded by their modern day descendants.

I wonder if there is a repository online somewhere collecting all the info from all the cards. Hmmmm.

I like your thinking there black hat though I'm more than happy accepting optimus prime as the thirteenth but with the provision that he reincarnates every time he dies, not as optimus every time obviously, but in this reincarnation he is op. Though I wonder if that's the same thing machinema are going to do with primal...

gothsaurus wrote:I wonder if there is a repository online somewhere collecting all the info from all the cards. Hmmmm.

I got you, fam.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Prime_Master/Combinations

HECK YEAH, LoreKeeper! Thanks!!!

All this talk of the origin story and 13 primes reminds me that the big TF history book just sits weird with me. Feels too much like Lord of the Rings or some other franchise. It's been difficult to get through, like trying to read the Bible in one sitting.

I had to shake it off and say "not in my headcanon". (That and recent IDW comic's Scooby Doo mask-off reveal of Onyx Prime. Yes, they finally revealed that under that bird cowl was "Red" from Angry Birds Transformers.)

Hoping this new line can be rooted in more of the G1-esque and videogame storytelling... less of the prime-gods stories. That stuff feels to dry and religious to me.

gothsaurus wrote:HECK YEAH, LoreKeeper! Thanks!!!

All this talk of the origin story and 13 primes reminds me that the big TF history book just sits weird with me. Feels too much like Lord of the Rings or some other franchise. It's been difficult to get through, like trying to read the Bible in one sitting.

I had to shake it off and say "not in my headcanon". (That and recent IDW comic's Scooby Doo mask-off reveal of Onyx Prime. Yes, they finally revealed that under that bird cowl was "Red" from Angry Birds Transformers.)

Hoping this new line can be rooted in more of the G1-esque and videogame storytelling... less of the prime-gods stories. That stuff feels to dry and religious to me.

Keep in mind that much of the "Covenant of Primus" is for the "Aligned" continuity family that was supposed to be the new premiere source of lore for the franchise, but has been all but forgotten just a short few years later. G1 is always going to be its own thing, and it's far less religious and mystical than some other incarnations. Who knows what Hasbro has in mind for any kind of "unifying history" of Transformers nowadays. Something tells me they really stopped putting that much thought into it. Honestly, do they really have to? Everyone knows that the Autobots are good, the Decepticons are bad, and they've been fighting each other for a loooooooong time.

I much prefer the primus/unicron creation stuff to what g1 gave us...though in a pinch I would be happy at having no defined creation for them and have unicron as this mysterious other, like the outer gods in the lovecraft mythos. Besides hasbro let's other groups come up with the fiction now and draws upon multiple sources for the toy designs. IDW will likely providing story for the next toy line.

Agreed, Wolfman. Leaving some gaps in the history and lore can actually be a really good thing. Leaves something to the imagination and lets things seem more epic and mysterious. When you explain things all away, they seem less awesome. (Example: midichlorians = The Force)

That actually make a great point. Knowing the origin or back story isn't always a good thing. Knowing what's behind Vader's mask (and it being an awkward, pubescent kid) or behind the Alien Engineer (and it being just some ole bald dude) can take away all the mystery that made a franchise good in the first place.

Either way, glad to see them stepping back from the Aligned Continuity. Really, it seemed to me like a terrible mash-up of G1 and Bayverse, which I don't think truly makes ANY of the fans happy. (Ugh, keep your filthy Bayverse chocolate out of my Geewun peanut butter. LOL.)

All that said, I do have high hopes for the upcoming line... and that it will strike a sweet spot of just-before-episode-1 with the launch of the Ark, etc. If we get tetrajets and a yellow saucer Bumblebee and all that, I will be beyond-stoked. Being very optimistic until someone tell me otherwise.

Oh, just saw ZeroWolf post.

Have you checked out all of the UK comics? Man. How those handle Primus and Unicron and all that is fantastic. Love those stories and art. I'd take those over MUCH of the Dreamwave and IDW stories and art, which is still very hit and miss for me. Seriously, can't recommend that stuff more. Track it down if you haven't read it all! Furman and Geoff Senior are top notch.

As interesting and controversial the Aligned Continuity was: it's dead. Dead as dead can be. You see, they lined up a lot of the new mythos and grand unified timeline only for it to become a serious pain to the writers of Transformers Prime. By the time Rid 2015 rolled around nobody cared. While I suspect story and setting elements of the Aligned continuity will remain with us for some time, if not forever, the idea of a singular defined universe for Transformers proved to be a failed experiment.

Edit: The problem with the Thirteen is that Hasbro completely misunderstood and mishandled them. They were intended as the 'gods' of Transformers mythology. The thing is, the Covenant of Primus gave us the supposedly mostly-accurate version of their story which...was a bad idea. The funny thing is, the pre-CoP proto-Thirteen "Original Transformers" lore was far more like a real, breathing mythology, full of incomplete stories and incoherence. Not every detail was explained. This is the problem of modern writing and worldbuilding, this Star Wars-esque obsession of having to explain, define and codify everything.

Yeah, Skritz, I like that notion. That the very-old pre-history can be spotty and conflicted and largely unknown... or even debated among the masses. (like religion is with humans) The notion of two origin stories with Primus OR the Quintessons is completely fine under those rules. It happened a long time ago and different bots believe different stories.

Skritz wrote:As interesting and controversial the Aligned Continuity was: it's dead. Dead as dead can be. You see, they lined up a lot of the new mythos and grand unified timeline only for it to become a serious pain to the writers of Transformers Prime. By the time Rid 2015 rolled around nobody cared. While I suspect story and setting elements of the Aligned continuity will remain with us for some time, if not forever, the idea of a singular defined universe for Transformers proved to be a failed experiment.

Edit: The problem with the Thirteen is that Hasbro completely misunderstood and mishandled them. They were intended as the 'gods' of Transformers mythology. The thing is, the Covenant of Primus gave us the supposedly mostly-accurate version of their story which...was a bad idea. The funny thing is, the pre-CoP proto-Thirteen "Original Transformers" lore was far more like a real, breathing mythology, full of incomplete stories and incoherence. Not every detail was explained. This is the problem of modern writing and worldbuilding, this Star Wars-esque obsession of having to explain, define and codify everything.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Whilst having identities for the Thirteen is nice, I'm firmly of the mindset that demystification- and as you say, the need to explain absolutely everything and leave nothing whatsoever to interpretation- is a bad thing for storytelling. I'm personally of the opinion that elements of the mythology of the Thirteen, notably events, quotations and even names, should be deliberately inconsistent, as though the truth was lost to the mists of time. Case in point, two of the Primes- Alchemist and Megatronus- have kinda terrible names. I prefer "Chemos Prime" for Alchemist (it sounds cooler and less obvious) and "Umbrus Prime" for Megatronus (rolls off the tongue better, is less dorky sounding and far less unimaginiative). Likewise, I prefer to think of Alpha Trion and Liege Maximo as "modern day" names for the characters, the original names being Trion Prime for Alpha Trion, and for Liege Maximo either Legitus Prime or Legion Prime.

I'd love to contribute to this discussion, but I believe its only a matter of time before we get a "stay on topic" nudge from someone. Is there a thread that is better suited for this discussion?

No harm in making one, though it would be better served in the cartoon and comics forum- unless you adapt the thread by adding pictures of toys as stand ins for the primes.

On topic mind, does it really matter if inferno and elitea don't have any proper team combinations? My understanding was they were just nice extras to the established combiners so kids could mix and match to their hearts content.

ZeroWolf wrote:On topic mind, does it really matter if inferno and elitea don't have any proper team combinations? My understanding was they were just nice extras to the established combiners so kids could mix and match to their hearts content.

Well no, nothing in Transformers really *matters* . It's just that as a fan specifically of the concept of Combining Transformers, and what they usually represent, having a dedicated team name, and combiner name, is pretty standard. This does not take away from the mix-and-match cross play concept. Even in the original series, while "scramble combination" was promoted in Japan, it was never hinted at in North American media, but we kids caught on pretty quickly . Honestly I don't even remember the base modes for the Team Leaders, but I know they were present in the instructions. Also I'm not entirely sure that integration with Metroplex and Trypticon were in their instructions either... (goes to look of scan of original Metroplex & Trypticons instructions....)...nope definitely not there.

o.supreme wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:On topic mind, does it really matter if inferno and elitea don't have any proper team combinations? My understanding was they were just nice extras to the established combiners so kids could mix and match to their hearts content.

Well no, nothing in Transformers really *matters* . It's just that as a fan specifically of the concept of Combining Transformers, and what they usually represent, having a dedicated team name, and combiner name, is pretty standard. This does not take away from the mix-and-match cross play concept. Even in the original series, while "scramble combination" was promoted in Japan, it was never hinted at in North American media, but we kids caught on pretty quickly . Honestly I don't even remember the base modes for the Team Leaders, but I know they were present in the instructions. Also I'm not entirely sure that integration with Metroplex and Trypticon were in their instructions either... (goes to look of scan of original Metroplex & Trypticons instructions....)...nope definitely not there.

Imagine if they had designed the new team leaders to connect to Titan class figures. That level of fan service would've been amazing.

Mix and match is one thing but it does become a 'logistical problem' when some Combiner torso have no limbs.