IDW Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye #53 Review

Well, I was wrong about Dominus, but not really in an expected way. At least I was fairly close, him actually being there in the DJD. Also, that section with Dome and Rewind, that was the highlight of the issue. That was a great story part.

And oh yes, Maximus Ambus!!

Two thoughts:

Dominus as the first Vos/the Pet provides Tarn with a bit more motivation to do what he did to Kaon. It wasn't just the weakness of emotions a attachment, it was sympathy towards an Autobot.

I guess the last Scavengers story was some sort foreshadowing with the Roboids. I wonder if Demus learned his trade from the DJD?

Also, Skids was awful mopey this issue. Given the awkwardness between him and Rung after the amica endura ritual, do you think Skids proposed to Rung and got shot down?

I'm really not sure what to make of Skids and Rung.

Actually idea:

last issue, Rewind said that on cybertron, Amica endura is only when you cannot get a conjux endura, so it means you accept you will never get that "true love." maybe the implication is that Skids wanted a conjux, but now that Nautica has done the amica, he can no longer get that conjux, hence his displeasure.

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I'm really not sure what to make of Skids and Rung.

Actually idea:

last issue, Rewind said that on cybertron, Amica endura is only when you cannot get a conjux endura, so it means you accept you will never get that "true love." maybe the implication is that Skids wanted a conjux, but now that Nautica has done the amica, he can no longer get that conjux, hence his displeasure.

Maybe...

I'll need to go panel-by-panel on Skids again, but let's not rule out that he might be sad on account of the whole "dying in an hour" thing :P

True, but the really awkward "see you later" with Rung rang some bells (hehe)

Wow, pacing issues is right.

The whole dominus thing was infuriating. Specifically, rewind nor chromedome consider that reversing the domestication might be the crew's only way offworld?

That whole moment felt really truncated considering it's gravity.

Ok I can understand IDW using fools energon in order to keep Megatons strength in check and even having Megatron renounce violence but he goes from one issue where hes ready to die and surrender himself to the DJD providing that they allow the autobots to go free very courageous if you ask me to the next issue have him repaired even remake his fusion cannon to only turn Megatron into a coward not willing to fight with his crew mates and ready to run with his tail between his legs so to speak honestly idw we finally have overlord and megatron in the same area and we won't get to see them battle it if ids was smart give him regular energon back his fusion cannon and the courage to stand with his shipmates instead of making him a coward megatron has never been a coward and has always faced threats no matter how great they were now idw wants us to believe he is a coward WHY

Now that you mention it, rice, that does irk me. I actually liked this issue a bit more than the previous few but I've been ready for this arc to be over for a long time.

I think my favorite thing is that Leader Magnus now scales a little better for my purposes.

ricemazter wrote:Wow, pacing issues is right.

The whole dominus thing was infuriating. Specifically, rewind nor chromedome consider that reversing the domestication might be the crew's only way offworld?

That whole moment felt really truncated considering it's gravity.

If the series had been cancelled abruptly, I'd understand this. As it is, with the whole mystery being resolved out of nowhere, I don't understand it.

Also, is Roberts giving Rodimus any redeeming qualities? He just seems to be a 2 dimensional douche bag in MTMTE. Pity.

Can anyone please answer why megatron goes from been courageous in one issue to being a coward in the next issue

Quint wrote:

ricemazter wrote:Wow, pacing issues is right.

The whole dominus thing was infuriating. Specifically, rewind nor chromedome consider that reversing the domestication might be the crew's only way offworld?

That whole moment felt really truncated considering it's gravity.

If the series had been cancelled abruptly, I'd understand this. As it is, with the whole mystery being resolved out of nowhere, I don't understand it.

Also, is Roberts giving Rodimus any redeeming qualities? He just seems to be a 2 dimensional douche bag in MTMTE. Pity.

I actually kind of like MTMTE rodimus. He isn't a squeaky clean kid who wants to do good for good's sake, at least not entirely. He wants to be a hero for all the wrong reasons. At least he's had a bit of development in refusing the list and apologizing to drift. Though I will agree that his making the same kind of mistakes has been going on since before the war ended when he let swindle ofall people get the best of him.

I really want a scene where he royally screws up and has Megatron of all people sit him down and tell him off. Megatron, I think has been a much better captain than rodimus.

I did enjoy the reveal, but I think I would've been more fond of it if it were split by a cliffhanger ending, giving me a month to stew on it, add gravity. (Of course, that wouldn't really work for the trades.) That's assuming Dom's definitely dead, though. It was a reasonably dramatic send-off, so I'll give it 75-25, in favor of him being dead.

I'm getting a vibe that Rod will come into his own after he squeezes through the Lost Light's transwarp mailbox and retakes the ship.

I really like third story, but man is it ever feeling rushed and condensed. Its really starting to ruin the story for me. I like what's going on, but it isn't enough.

The pacing issues were there, but I feel that had we still had the 22 page comics instead of 20, things might be a bit better. Just think about it: since the loss of 2 pages, we have had issues 39-53, which comes to 30 pages lost, more than a whole issue. Roberts even said that was a hindrance and a bother, and I can see why. it's like cutting the running time of a TV show from 22 minutes to 20, or a 45 minutes to 40. It really condenses and needs some sacrifice.

I'm also pretty sure Dom is not dead

I don't think Megatron is afraid of the DJD. I see megatron as being like a reformed Alcoholic. But in this case, it got to the point where he was addicted to the violence, to the killing, he did it because it was the only answer, and it was the only way he could succeed, this is what he pretty much said back in 49. Until eventually, as in back in the Dark Cybertron series, he remembered there were other ways, and he finally, finally, after millions of years and countless deaths, got back on the wagon. The entire galaxy can hate him all it wants, but he's at last at peace with himself and trying to do something worthwhile that doesn't involve murder. And now, the only answer that exists once again is to kill, and It terrifies him to no end. I can see what Roberts was getting at with him Rejecting the Fusion Cannon and opting to stay under the shield. In fact, I'm pretty sure next issue he's going to point out he didn't expect to survive his meeting with Tarn, and it would have been easier if he didn't.

It will be interesting to see how Roberts writes Megatron next issue. Whether Megatron sticks with flight, or goes to fight, it's going to define him.

Also, I'm pretty sure Nightbeat is going to determine something massive underneath the surface of the planet to tip the scales next issue. We know next issue is where it ends, and 55 is the aftermath. So yeah, can't wait. I've enjoyed this arc immensely, I'm just worried about who is, and who isn't, making it out next issue.

DaRonin wrote:I don't think Megatron is afraid of the DJD. I see megatron as being like a reformed Alcoholic. But in this case, it got to the point where he was addicted to the violence, to the killing, he did it because it was the only answer, and it was the only way he could succeed, this is what he pretty much said back in 49. Until eventually, as in back in the Dark Cybertron series, he remembered there were other ways, and he finally, finally, after millions of years and countless deaths, got back on the wagon. The entire galaxy can hate him all it wants, but he's at last at peace with himself and trying to do something worthwhile that doesn't involve murder. And now, the only answer that exists once again is to kill, and It terrifies him to no end. I can see what Roberts was getting at with him Rejecting the Fusion Cannon and opting to stay under the shield. In fact, I'm pretty sure next issue he's going to point out he didn't expect to survive his meeting with Tarn, and it would have been easier if he didn't.

It will be interesting to see how Roberts writes Megatron next issue. Whether Megatron sticks with flight, or goes to fight, it's going to define him.

Also, I'm pretty sure Nightbeat is going to determine something massive underneath the surface of the planet to tip the scales next issue. We know next issue is where it ends, and 55 is the aftermath. So yeah, can't wait. I've enjoyed this arc immensely, I'm just worried about who is, and who isn't, making it out next issue.

Very well said. I never had thought about it like this, but now I see it, and it makes sense and it is something Roberts would do

megatronpro1 wrote:Can anyone please answer why megatron goes from been courageous in one issue to being a coward in the next issue

He's afraid of who he used to be - that if he starts killing, he won't be able to stop again.

When it was just him facing Tarn, he was happy to let Tarn kill him without fighting back. The fact he's alone is an important part - he thought that by sacrificing himself he could save his comrades' lives without having to fight. That satisfies his desire to protect his comrades without forcing him to kill.

However, now Megatron would be alongside his Autobot comrades, a situation which would force him to fight and kill in their defense (which he is terrified of doing). Mentally, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place, and is choking up.

ricemazter wrote:

Quint wrote:

ricemazter wrote:Wow, pacing issues is right.

The whole dominus thing was infuriating. Specifically, rewind nor chromedome consider that reversing the domestication might be the crew's only way offworld?

That whole moment felt really truncated considering it's gravity.

If the series had been cancelled abruptly, I'd understand this. As it is, with the whole mystery being resolved out of nowhere, I don't understand it.

Also, is Roberts giving Rodimus any redeeming qualities? He just seems to be a 2 dimensional douche bag in MTMTE. Pity.

I actually kind of like MTMTE rodimus. He isn't a squeaky clean kid who wants to do good for good's sake, at least not entirely. He wants to be a hero for all the wrong reasons. At least he's had a bit of development in refusing the list and apologizing to drift. Though I will agree that his making the same kind of mistakes has been going on since before the war ended when he let swindle ofall people get the best of him.

I really want a scene where he royally screws up and has Megatron of all people sit him down and tell him off. Megatron, I think has been a much better captain than rodimus.

I know what you mean about liking his faults, I once thought the same.

Rung working out that Rodimus was only lamenting the fact it wasn't him who saved the day in the aftermath of the Overlord battle was rather complex.

Prime lambasting him for invoking the crisis of command vote for his own ego, rather than morality. That was fascinating too.

Yet the character is caught in something of a flatline. Which makes sense for a "Turbo revvin young punk" who is in fact 4 million years old, I suppose...

Also, apologies if someone has mentioned this already:

Minimus. Dominus. Spark brothers. One is a minesweeper. The other a feline. Hm. Ok.

Quint wrote:

ricemazter wrote:

Quint wrote:

ricemazter wrote:Wow, pacing issues is right.

The whole dominus thing was infuriating. Specifically, rewind nor chromedome consider that reversing the domestication might be the crew's only way offworld?

That whole moment felt really truncated considering it's gravity.

If the series had been cancelled abruptly, I'd understand this. As it is, with the whole mystery being resolved out of nowhere, I don't understand it.

Also, is Roberts giving Rodimus any redeeming qualities? He just seems to be a 2 dimensional douche bag in MTMTE. Pity.

I actually kind of like MTMTE rodimus. He isn't a squeaky clean kid who wants to do good for good's sake, at least not entirely. He wants to be a hero for all the wrong reasons. At least he's had a bit of development in refusing the list and apologizing to drift. Though I will agree that his making the same kind of mistakes has been going on since before the war ended when he let swindle ofall people get the best of him.

I really want a scene where he royally screws up and has Megatron of all people sit him down and tell him off. Megatron, I think has been a much better captain than rodimus.

I know what you mean about liking his faults, I once thought the same.

Rung working out that Rodimus was only lamenting the fact it wasn't him who saved the day in the aftermath of the Overlord battle was rather complex.

Prime lambasting him for invoking the crisis of command vote for his own ego, rather than morality. That was fascinating too.

Yet the character is caught in something of a flatline. Which makes sense for a "Turbo revvin young punk" who is in fact 4 million years old, I suppose...

Also, apologies if someone has mentioned this already:

Minimus. Dominus. Spark brothers. One is a minesweeper. The other a feline. Hm. Ok.

Being spark brothers doesn't necessarily mean that your alt-modes are the same. Needlenose and Tracks are an example of that.

Also, we saw Minimus turn into a minesweeper in the alternate timeline, but that was in his armor. Dominus' armored form looked rather similar, rather than having the turbofox kibble of his "irreducible" form. It's possible that Minimus' smallest form may have a different alt-mode.

RevTibe wrote:

megatronpro1 wrote:Can anyone please answer why megatron goes from been courageous in one issue to being a coward in the next issue

He's afraid of who he used to be - that if he starts killing, he won't be able to stop again.

When it was just him facing Tarn, he was happy to let Tarn kill him without fighting back. The fact he's alone is an important part - he thought that by sacrificing himself he could save his comrades' lives without having to fight. That satisfies his desire to protect his comrades without forcing him to kill.

However, now Megatron would be alongside his Autobot comrades, a situation which would force him to fight and kill in their defense (which he is terrified of doing). Mentally, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place, and is choking up.

This helps me like Megatron in this issue a little more - I'm kind of ready for him to strap on the fusion cannon, chomp on some energon flowers, and beat some ass, but wouldn't be consistent with his development.

Rodimus, now, I think is awesome. I mean, it's awesome how Roberts is developing him. He's kind of a jerk, but not a Getaway jerk, and it's always up in the air just how much he deserves what he gets - he's clearly goodhearted, but it competes with his ego. Not too different from a lot of famous personalities.

So is it safe to say at this point tarn's probably roller?

SW's SilverHammer wrote:So is it safe to say at this point tarn's probably roller?

Randomhero will tell you Proteus, but considering Dom is now out of the running, Roller is the most obvious and (except for Proteus, which I really don't see) probably the only option

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:So is it safe to say at this point tarn's probably roller?

Randomhero will tell you Proteus, but considering Dom is now out of the running, Roller is the most obvious and (except for Proteus, which I really don't see) probably the only option

Do Barber and Roberts keep the characters and stories totally separate and independent of each other? It's not possible that it could be any character (Nova Prime?) from the other ongoing series, in a sort-of in-house crossover?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:So is it safe to say at this point tarn's probably roller?

Randomhero will tell you Proteus, but considering Dom is now out of the running, Roller is the most obvious and (except for Proteus, which I really don't see) probably the only option

Do Barber and Roberts keep the characters and stories totally separate and independent of each other? It's not possible that it could be any character (Nova Prime?) from the other ongoing series, in a sort-of in-house crossover?

They are definitely not independent of each other, though MTMTE tends to be (in-universe) a little behind what happens in The Transformers. Or has been, for Combiner Wars, may be catching up soon.

graham29 wrote:This is looking hopeless and the more I try to figure out how it might play out the less I have any idea of where it might go... And that bring my attention to the organics. "Nautica's checking on the organics." There have been little things here and there in the last few issues mentioning that gear symbol that seems on the back burner. Megatron decided to stay to protect them. We saw other pods recently. Censerre seems to have some connection to the operation. If he interfered with the message to the Lost Light, did he have time to contact anyone else? I'm really starting to wonder who ever they are could be on their way to check in their project and maybe that's the deus ex machina (HA!) this story clearly needs for the heroes to survive. And it seems like maybe it's time after fifty plus issues that the underlying quest start to come more to the forefront.

I think there's something to this thought. There's something bigger, and possibly sinister going on outside of the DJD vs Lost Light/Megatron conflict and Optimus' crew vs. Galvatron's crew and Wreckers vs Anyone and Scott Starscream vs. The World, yet here these Transformers are, fighting among themselves. Like always. In the past, that messed up parts of the galaxy pretty badly, but maybe now, the galaxy's getting ready to fight back. All I can think of is MTMTE 34 where there's a space battle going on above Ofsted, and two of the sides fighting aren't Cybertronian

Dare I dream that this leads to some resolution for Spotlights Cliffjumper and Wheelie?

DaRonin wrote:I don't think Megatron is afraid of the DJD. I see megatron as being like a reformed Alcoholic. But in this case, it got to the point where he was addicted to the violence, to the killing, he did it because it was the only answer, and it was the only way he could succeed, this is what he pretty much said back in 49. Until eventually, as in back in the Dark Cybertron series, he remembered there were other ways, and he finally, finally, after millions of years and countless deaths, got back on the wagon. The entire galaxy can hate him all it wants, but he's at last at peace with himself and trying to do something worthwhile that doesn't involve murder. And now, the only answer that exists once again is to kill, and It terrifies him to no end. I can see what Roberts was getting at with him Rejecting the Fusion Cannon and opting to stay under the shield. In fact, I'm pretty sure next issue he's going to point out he didn't expect to survive his meeting with Tarn, and it would have been easier if he didn't.

It will be interesting to see how Roberts writes Megatron next issue. Whether Megatron sticks with flight, or goes to fight, it's going to define him.

Also, I'm pretty sure Nightbeat is going to determine something massive underneath the surface of the planet to tip the scales next issue. We know next issue is where it ends, and 55 is the aftermath. So yeah, can't wait. I've enjoyed this arc immensely, I'm just worried about who is, and who isn't, making it out next issue.

I accidentally just typed up something like that for Megatron in the Twincast 144 thread before I read this. Completely agreed on both points here. Megatron's decision here, while initially shocking, quickly made sense after giving it some thought. I found it consistent with his increasingly Zeta Gundam era Char Aznable-like nature. That is, he wants to find some absolution and atonement for his previous actions, but isn't quite prepared to actually do anything to get it at this point. He's cleaning up his act but still being selfish, and maybe this leads to him getting the justice that a lot of bots feel he deserves.

And yes, bad things just follow Nightbeat. Something's gonna happen down there. Maybe we could even say heads will roll?

Also copying through my Twincast comment, to echo these posts above:

I don't think the suggestion of 'get off the stuff and fight' is supposed to be the 'good side' of the discussion. As Counterpunch suggests, that is what a lot of people on medication do have to live with and struggle through, and the comics are reflecting that context (and we've seen how Rodimus just does not get sympathy in these cases, just look at MTMTE 53 with Chromedome - Rewind is spot on). Comments on Megatron's cowardice are more out of place, I feel, than using the themes in the story.

Unless, of course, there's a cop-out solution in #54-5-6 - cover for 55 would seem to say no, but y'know.

Dr Va'al wrote:Also copying through my Twincast comment, to echo these posts above:

I don't think the suggestion of 'get off the stuff and fight' is supposed to be the 'good side' of the discussion. As Counterpunch suggests, that is what a lot of people on medication do have to live with and struggle through, and the comics are reflecting that context (and we've seen how Rodimus just does not get sympathy in these cases, just look at MTMTE 53 with Chromedome - Rewind is spot on). Comments on Megatron's cowardice are more out of place, I feel, than using the themes in the story.

Unless, of course, there's a cop-out solution in #54-5-6 - cover for 55 would seem to say no, but y'know.

No. Megatron is being a coward. This is no longer a grey issue. It has become as black and white as black and white gets. It is literally a life or death issue and multiple lives are on the line. Megatron has the power to save them, but he is choosing not to because reasons. That is cowardly, and I have no sympathy or tolerance for it, real life or story. Life is a bitch, sometimes you have to rise above your personal issues and struggles, and man the fuck up, no excuses. It sucks, but there you go. Life.

Megatron chose to run from the fight, to let othere die. In this senario, that makes him a coward.


There are times for dealing with your stuff, this isn't one of them.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Also copying through my Twincast comment, to echo these posts above:

I don't think the suggestion of 'get off the stuff and fight' is supposed to be the 'good side' of the discussion. As Counterpunch suggests, that is what a lot of people on medication do have to live with and struggle through, and the comics are reflecting that context (and we've seen how Rodimus just does not get sympathy in these cases, just look at MTMTE 53 with Chromedome - Rewind is spot on). Comments on Megatron's cowardice are more out of place, I feel, than using the themes in the story.

Unless, of course, there's a cop-out solution in #54-5-6 - cover for 55 would seem to say no, but y'know.

No. Megatron is being a coward. This is no longer a grey issue. It has become as black and white as black and white gets. It is literally a life or death issue and multiple lives are on the line. Megatron has the power to save them, but he is choosing not to because reasons. That is cowardly, and I have no sympathy or tolerance for it, real life or story. Life is a bitch, sometimes you have to rise above your personal issues and struggles, and man the **** up, no excuses. It sucks, but there you go. Life.

Megatron chose to run from the fight, to let othere die. In this senario, that makes him a coward.


There are times for dealing with your stuff, this isn't one of them.

Maybe, but I'm thinking he knows something they don't. The secret location of this arc's Macguffin.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Also copying through my Twincast comment, to echo these posts above:

I don't think the suggestion of 'get off the stuff and fight' is supposed to be the 'good side' of the discussion. As Counterpunch suggests, that is what a lot of people on medication do have to live with and struggle through, and the comics are reflecting that context (and we've seen how Rodimus just does not get sympathy in these cases, just look at MTMTE 53 with Chromedome - Rewind is spot on). Comments on Megatron's cowardice are more out of place, I feel, than using the themes in the story.

Unless, of course, there's a cop-out solution in #54-5-6 - cover for 55 would seem to say no, but y'know.

No. Megatron is being a coward. This is no longer a grey issue. It has become as black and white as black and white gets. It is literally a life or death issue and multiple lives are on the line. Megatron has the power to save them, but he is choosing not to because reasons. That is cowardly, and I have no sympathy or tolerance for it, real life or story. Life is a bitch, sometimes you have to rise above your personal issues and struggles, and man the **** up, no excuses. It sucks, but there you go. Life.

Megatron chose to run from the fight, to let othere die. In this senario, that makes him a coward.


There are times for dealing with your stuff, this isn't one of them.

I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Also copying through my Twincast comment, to echo these posts above:

I don't think the suggestion of 'get off the stuff and fight' is supposed to be the 'good side' of the discussion. As Counterpunch suggests, that is what a lot of people on medication do have to live with and struggle through, and the comics are reflecting that context (and we've seen how Rodimus just does not get sympathy in these cases, just look at MTMTE 53 with Chromedome - Rewind is spot on). Comments on Megatron's cowardice are more out of place, I feel, than using the themes in the story.

Unless, of course, there's a cop-out solution in #54-5-6 - cover for 55 would seem to say no, but y'know.

No. Megatron is being a coward. This is no longer a grey issue. It has become as black and white as black and white gets. It is literally a life or death issue and multiple lives are on the line. Megatron has the power to save them, but he is choosing not to because reasons. That is cowardly, and I have no sympathy or tolerance for it, real life or story. Life is a bitch, sometimes you have to rise above your personal issues and struggles, and man the **** up, no excuses. It sucks, but there you go. Life.

Megatron chose to run from the fight, to let othere die. In this senario, that makes him a coward.


There are times for dealing with your stuff, this isn't one of them.

I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

Normaly, I'd agree with your previous statements, but I don't believe it's ever justified risk other lives/let others die because of our personal demons.

Sorry for the double post, hit submit too soon.

The problem is the writers are trying to convey a real world struggle in a very out of context situation. I get your point, I really do, and in 99.9% of situations, you'd be right.

This is that .1% situation. One that I can't see ever happening in the real world, to be sure. The writers choose bad context to convey this metaphor.

Dr Va'al wrote:I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

So are you saying you have no argument? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Just because your opinion differs from others' that doesn't make it invalid, so you should state it, and not just drop in passive-aggressive statements like you just did. If you truly believe it would do nothing, you shouldn't bring it up in the 1st place.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

So are you saying you have no argument? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Just because your opinion differs from others' that doesn't make it invalid, so you should state it, and not just drop in passive-aggressive statements like you just did. If you truly believe it would do nothing, you shouldn't bring it up in the 1st place.

Not the case at all: we're simply going to keep disagreeing as we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't want to get stuck in loop, so I just state that I disagree. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I apologise if that's how it came across!

Dr Va'al wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

So are you saying you have no argument? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Just because your opinion differs from others' that doesn't make it invalid, so you should state it, and not just drop in passive-aggressive statements like you just did. If you truly believe it would do nothing, you shouldn't bring it up in the 1st place.

Not the case at all: we're simply going to keep disagreeing as we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't want to get stuck in loop, so I just state that I disagree. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I apologise if that's how it came across!

Yeah, a bit. Kinda like "You're wrong, but I'm not gonna tell you why!" That's why I said at least state some reasons. And maybe I was a bit harsh as well. I made the post at the end of a stressful workday, and I had some steam to blow off. Your post just happened to be the 1st I felt I should respond to. Sorry.

As for the point made by Ironhidensh, I'm kinda split on it. I understand what he's saying, and I have to agree that in certain situations personal conflict should be set aside in order to prevent harm to others, but at the same time I am also trying really hard to view this from Megatron's point of view, and try to apply his reasoning. Taking that into account, along with the aforementioned analogy to alcoholism, I think Megatron faces a damn difficult choice and situation. Does he give up whatever measure of integrity and inner peace he was granted byt his renouncement of violence in order to protect those he is able to protect? Or is this a case where doing nothing is the same as being responsible for the Autobots' deaths? I believe the Autobots are just as responsible for being in this situation as Megatron is, they became responsible the moment they accepted Megatron into their ranks. My interpretation is that the choice Megatron must make is does he destroy his own peace of mind and spark in order to possibly save other lives? I say possibly because even if he picks up the fusion cannon, it doesn't guarantee automatic victory. He can still fail in defeating Tarn, (highly unlikely, but not impossible) and have nothing left at the end, as he sacrifices his minuscule self-respect and dignity to return to being a killer. I think he views what he has now as his 1 big chance at a somewhat normal life, and he can't decide what it is exactly worth to him. Is it worth the lives of others, whether innocent or not? I'm really, REALLY interested in finding out how this end. And of course, WHO THE HELL TARN IS.

P.S. I was really hoping Megatron would become a sort of cranky old uncle/grandpa type to Rodimus. They could have had a fun dynamic. But using Megatron as comic relief is just...weird. He is a mass-murderer after all.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

So are you saying you have no argument? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Just because your opinion differs from others' that doesn't make it invalid, so you should state it, and not just drop in passive-aggressive statements like you just did. If you truly believe it would do nothing, you shouldn't bring it up in the 1st place.

Not the case at all: we're simply going to keep disagreeing as we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't want to get stuck in loop, so I just state that I disagree. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I apologise if that's how it came across!

I would still like to hear your thoughts on it. You are one of the extremely few posters whose opinions I really respect. Who knows, maybe I'll like what you say. I'm not above changing my mind when presented with better ways. Also, discussion and friendly disagreement is fast becoming a lost art.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:I could write a lengthy post listing the reasons why I disagree, but it would do nothing. So I'll just say that I disagree, strongly.

So are you saying you have no argument? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Just because your opinion differs from others' that doesn't make it invalid, so you should state it, and not just drop in passive-aggressive statements like you just did. If you truly believe it would do nothing, you shouldn't bring it up in the 1st place.

Not the case at all: we're simply going to keep disagreeing as we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't want to get stuck in loop, so I just state that I disagree. I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive, I apologise if that's how it came across!

I would still like to hear your thoughts on it. You are one of the extremely few posters whose opinions I really respect. Who knows, maybe I'll like what you say. I'm not above changing my mind when presented with better ways. Also, discussion and friendly disagreement is fast becoming a lost art.

I will, I just get lost in having brainpower diverted to my current work, and end up burping out badly formed thoughts on here when I think too hard about it. But I will. Gimme a week or so!

EDIT: Ok, very badly formed post here. Leaving it suspended bothered me.

I don't see this as alcoholism or substance abuse (that's more Chromedome - even Tarn is something else entirely, much like real life disorders in fact), I see it as a specific mental illness, perhaps closer to schizophrenia or borderline disorder. There is definitely an element of manic behaviour in the violence and the relish of it. After the trial, he is put on medication (Fool's Energon). This helps him keep a form of neurotypical perspective on his surroundings, and he is both aware of it and accepting of it. We should all be on the same page up to here, right?

While in the medicated state, he has realised the scale of the consequences of his actions (on Censere, the blue flowers) directly or indirectly. [Side note: I'd love to see Optimus' field, too.] He has made a choice, an intentional decision to stay away from violence - though only directly, he has been leading battles from afar still - and has kept to that, especially after the fright he got from attacking someone unexpectedly.

Now we have the big bad facing him: the knowledge of his disorder being a potential solution to the threat facing him and the crew that somewhat believe in/trust him. The problem I see here is this: if we want him to 'give in' to his violent, manic side, we are no different than Rodimus (character) pushing Chromedome almost to the point of killing him. It's exploiting someone's vulnerability for our own gain.

As Rodimus (Seibertron member) rightly said above:

I believe the Autobots are just as responsible for being in this situation as Megatron is

Though not for the same reason that he points out: they are not responsible for accepting him, they are responsible because they are also a faction in a conflict that does not need to exist. They are not the 'good guys' (though Tarn's side is clearly - even if not clearly cut - much worse), and if the solution is to enable someone's illness for their own gain - how is that also not cowardice?

I don't think we're talking inner peace, in Megatron's case, here. The happiness he feels is not because he has come to terms with the pain he has caused - he hasn't. At all. He probably never will. The happiness he feels is due to the fact that he can find ways of making sure the pain spurs him towards doing good. And sometimes, that is not doing anything at all.

I'll bring you an example from personal experience. I had a friend who was in a terrible situation in their house with one of the housemates, with police involved, later restraining orders, and all the fun circus around that. The third housemate did nothing through all this (which is why I was the one involved) as they have a condition that means they get severe panic attacks, asthma, and other potential issues when facing an anxiety inducing situation. Their intervention would've meant solving the situation more quickly, easily and probably with less consequences for everyone involved. That was not the case, because they had to step out - for self-preservation. Do I resent them? Does my friend resent them? No. Did we get angry at the time? Yes. Did we understand why they had to do that? Yes.

I would never force or coerce into a conflict someone whose involvement would have harmful repercussion on their own wellbeing, even if they were key to the resolution. I might try talking to them, but if they cannot, that's where it ends. It'll take longer, it'll be messier, but that's what happens unfortunately.

This is where I find myself with the Megatron scenario. I cannot condone enabling his violence to solve the situation faster. I cannot call him a coward for being afraid. I cannot separate his condition from the context, and I cannot agree with believing in just getting over yourself/your demons/your issues, if it's those issues that prevent you from taking part in the situation in the first place.

Does that make any sense?

Here are my predictions for the next issue:

I think something is going to happen that spurs Megatron into action. Whether it's someone's death, or a harder coaching from Ravage, or another dire situation. He will get juiced up, mount the fusion cannon Brainstorm built for him, and once again be a force to be reckoned with in battle.

Also, the Protectobots are still out there somewhere. They might form Defensor in mid air and land right in the middle of Deathsaurus' army.

Then it's Megatron vs. Tarn round 2. Tarn will be finally unmasked, probably forcefully, and it will be revealed that Roller has been the terrifying murderer the entire time.

Ultra Magnus will fight Overlord again. Overlord will likely flee back to his 'benefactors', thinking that he has no chance against the Maximus armor. We need Overlord to live to battle another day so we can find out who his benefactors are.

Trying to catch up here:

Iron, I'm with Va'al on this one. I just can't see this as cowardice, but more like forced final fight, in a way. He is all but being forced into the situation he has wanted to avoid, with everyone's life on the line, and he just can't give in. And I have respect for your posts and stances. I like the fact that you do say things very bluntly as you think. Makes things very clear. Plus, I do agree with you sometimes.

Va'al: Your position did make sense. I read it through a few times to make sure I got it, and it really does make sense. I agree with you on it.

Battlemaster: Good prediction. We'll just need to see where this goes. I agree that Overlord will survive. I'm doubting Defensor, but I really hope he comes. Don't forget Nightbeat and Rung either. And don't forget what the synopsis says for following issues: pretty much everything is deceit. This may be the DJD's swan song, but it is right on top of the main story goal all along I believe.

Dr Va'al wrote:Though not for the same reason that he points out: they are not responsible for accepting him, they are responsible because they are also a faction in a conflict that does not need to exist. They are not the 'good guys' (though Tarn's side is clearly - even if not clearly cut - much worse), and if the solution is to enable someone's illness for their own gain - how is that also not cowardice?

It's not cowardice. It may be despicable, but using someone else for reaching your goal is not cowardice. It's cunning. The Autobots wanting Megatron to fight know that he can make a difference, and they want him to, otherwise the outcome of the battle has a high probability of being different. I can't fault the Autobots for wanting to survive at any cost.

I would never force or coerce into a conflict someone whose involvement would have harmful repercussion on their own well-being, even if they were key to the resolution. I might try talking to them, but if they cannot, that's where it ends. It'll take longer, it'll be messier, but that's what happens unfortunately.

But that's not taking the high road. That's just trading damage from 1 part of the problem to the other. You either damage this person through their weaknesses, or cause damage somewhere else by prolonging the conflict which could be ended quicker by involving the person with the weaknesses. It's a no-win situation, you're just having to choose between magnitude of damage to 1 person and lesser damage to more people. This is the reason I can't clearly pick a side. Do I want Megatron to go all-out homicidal, like we know he can, to end the threat from the DJD and possibly save the Autobots, but sacrifice himself in the process? Or do I want him to stay away from that part of him and let the Autobots defend themselves? It would save Megatron, but most likely destroy the Autobots. How can I not expect Megatron to take an active role in correcting the problem (albeit a BIG problem) he caused in the 1st place, even it means his personal sacrifice? Tough decision.

Dr Va'al wrote:a lot of really good stuff


Does that make any sense?

Yes it does. A lot of sense. I also see where are main disagreement is. In example that you give, from your own experience (and sorry for that, I know all to well how much those situations can suck) I'm completely on board with you. where we differ, I believe, is in looking at the sistuations as similar.
For instance (and I apologize if I step on your feelings here) if one of the roommates would have died because your friend didnt get involved then the sistuations would be the same.

See, I actually agree with you, Va'al, as long as lives are not on the line. I don't know if I'm conveying my thoughts well.

Also, Megatron is co-captain of the Lost Light. He is directly responsible for the lives under his command. If not an act of cowardice, then his failure to fight is at least a dirilection of duty. Maybe even treasonous.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Though not for the same reason that he points out: they are not responsible for accepting him, they are responsible because they are also a faction in a conflict that does not need to exist. They are not the 'good guys' (though Tarn's side is clearly - even if not clearly cut - much worse), and if the solution is to enable someone's illness for their own gain - how is that also not cowardice?

It's not cowardice. It may be despicable, but using someone else for reaching your goal is not cowardice. It's cunning. The Autobots wanting Megatron to fight know that he can make a difference, and they want him to, otherwise the outcome of the battle has a high probability of being different. I can't fault the Autobots for wanting to survive at any cost.

I can. Because the cost they're willing to pay is not actually their own.
Let's say they all survive this conflict - how do you think they'll feel after it?

Also, cunning is here - I feel - not the word I'd use. Despicable, yes, very much so. Manipulative, definitely. In this case, it would be, as I think I said, exploiting someone's position of vulnerability for personal gain.

Which leads me to...

Ironhidensh wrote:For instance (and I apologize if I step on your feelings here) if one of the roommates would have died because your friend didnt get involved then the sistuations would be the same.

The personal gain in question is indeed their own lives, in this situation. (Ironhidensh - The answer to your question is obviously impossible, as this was not the case in my situation, though very close for two of the three people involved. It was an interesting two weeks.)

And that is where I agree with Rodimus, and not with Ironhidensh: this is indeed a no-win situation. It's the greyest shade of grey, black and white are so far from here they're basically blurple. I do not want the crew to take push Megatron too far. I do not want the crew to die. I do not want Megatron to lose what he's regained. I do not want OverTarnSaurus to succeed in their deranged mission.

This is why I am so worried about the narrative solutions that can be taken in the next issues. I'm seriously concerned it won't be handled well, given all the elements (metaphorical and literal) involved in the story.

EDIT: About the captain comment - I think we differ on this too. I care very little for the idea of duty, but rather rely on accountability/responsibility. Hierarchies, especially of a military type, are not my strong spot, and I realise this can be a sensitive topic for others. I'd rather not get into it too heatedly. But in this particular case, Megatron as co-captain, is not the sole person responsible for the crew - in fact, the crew along with the other co-captain are going against his decision, no? It's still a no-win situation. Why are they more in the right than him?

(I also marvel at my own position defending a character I find not particularly agreeable, for the record. Roberts has clearly pressed some right buttons in Megatron's development for me.)

Yeah, manipulative might be better than cunning, but I feel cunning is still more accurate than cowardice.

As for how they would feel afterwards, if they pushed Megatron into going back to what he used to be? IF (big IF) they survived even with Megatron's help, they would weigh it against the possible outcome of them all dying, and have their survival instinct override their guilt for what they did.

For the record, I believe this will happen, if Megatron is truly forced to choose between the Autobots dying or him going back to being a savage killing machine. If you're Megatron, it's one thing to give yourself up and have the DJD kill you and leave. When there are others' lives on the line? How could he? He'd be betraying all that he's claiming to be now. If he stands by and lets just the Autobots fight the DJD, Deathsaurus and Overlord, he's basically letting them die. (I make no bones about it, as much as I like Rodimus, the DJD would wipe him and the rest of them out within minutes, most likely.) It's time for Megatron to show how strong his convictions are. Because, when it comes to the DJD, I think he should make an exception. If not for saving the Autobots, then correcting 1 of his gravest past mistakes.

The other outcome I think might happen is that someone we don't know or don't even see coming will interfere and either chase off the DJD or does just enough to help the Autobots escape.

Also, TarnOverSaurus reads and sounds better.

I reallly want the Scavengers to live up to their new creed of helping cons in need. Megatron being said (ex)con. Do they know he's a 'bot yet? I can't remember.
They could unleash Grimlock and let him go to town. Plus they probably want the DJD gone as much/more than anyone considering their previous encounter. I think the aftermath would have tons of potential too. Rod's crew boarding The Weak Anthropic Principle to hunt down the Lost Light and its mutineers!

Just wild speculation loaded with what-ifs is all. Don't really have much for guesses in what Nightbeat is going to find. I previously had a hunch about the organics and headmaster tech but it's probably too late in the game for that to make an impact on the battle at this point.

Mr Skram wrote:I reallly want the Scavengers to live up to their new creed of helping cons in need. Megatron being said (ex)con...They could unleash Grimlock and let him go to town. Plus they probably want the DJD gone as much/more than anyone considering their previous encounter.

If Grimlock showed up to save the day and beat the DJD, I would most likely cream my pants right then and there in the comic shop. Grimlock is my all-time favorite comic character.

Those Cyclonus and Whirl pages done by Sakamoto (14-18), as originally done by Milne.

I just love how Milne gives Whirl so much expression for someone who's face is a single eye