More Transformers: Fall of Cybertron Footage - Grimlock, Megatron, Escalation, and More

Those videos just looks so great, to bad that the video from the Escalation mode lags hell...

cool can't wait to play as ............... drum roll please





CLIFFJUMPER THE DWAYNE JOHNSON GUY

damnit Megatron has the same voice actor as the last one, was hoping they'd replace him.

Did optimus call in an air strike? How metal is THAT.

in the gametrailers vid, the "Excuse me!" scene almost makes me forget that I've heard "What is it that makes a Transformers game, Transformers? Transforming, right? I know it sounds silly but..." about a thousand times now.

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:cool can't wait to play as ............... drum roll please





CLIFFJUMPER THE DWAYNE JOHNSON GUY

Voiced by none other than ............... drum roll please





NOLAN NORTH

Found the remix. It was hard to track it down until recently.

Okay... So why aren't all the Navi in the Grimlock footage telling Grimlock to listen and why didn't he kill them?

#Sideways# wrote:Okay... So why aren't all the Navi in the Grimlock footage telling Grimlock to listen and why didn't he kill them?

I was trying SO HARD not to make a joke about that, but...
DAMMIT! Why is Grimlock in the Lost Woods!?

The posted Escalation gameplay appears to be a lower quality, cropped version of the one posted via GameInformer a couple days ago.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... video.aspx
:S
http://youtu.be/qQUsBex1n-o

Dead Metal wrote:Should be common knowledge by now that this isn't G1.

Tell that to Matt Tieger, who blatantly said in one of this year's E3 interviews that Fall of Cybertron tells the story that leads up to G1.

For all we know, WFC/FoC's continuity branches off into both an Aligned continuity and a new Primax continuity. But official sources don't seem to be decided about what's what right now.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Should be common knowledge by now that this isn't G1.

Tell that to Matt Tieger, who blatantly said in one of this year's E3 interviews that Fall of Cybertron tells the story that leads up to G1.

For all we know, WFC/FoC's continuity branches off into both an Aligned continuity and a new Primax continuity. But official sources don't seem to be decided about what's what right now.

In this video interview, the interviewer asks Tieger about that:

Greg Miller: "For you, I mean, when you guys are sitting down and coming up with the story and planning it, are you setting it in the cartoon universe, or it is your own universe but heavily influenced by--?"
Matt Tieger: *clears throat* "I think, wha-- The latter is accurate. We generally use the G1 cartoon as our primary touchstone, but we also look at comics-- Uh, some of the older comics I really enjoyed, particularly the UK comics, actually, were very very good."
Greg Miller: *Jokingly emulates a British Optimus Prime, then stops*
Matt Tieger: "Um, so we do look at tons and tons of source material, but, at the end of the day, we do kind of carve our own path."

So, he does recognize that it's not the same universe as the G1 cartoon, and in other interviews, he's talked about how the game is part of the greater current canon of the "bible" that Hasbro recently put together, which constitutes the Aligned Continuity.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Should be common knowledge by now that this isn't G1.

Tell that to Matt Tieger, who blatantly said in one of this year's E3 interviews that Fall of Cybertron tells the story that leads up to G1.

For all we know, WFC/FoC's continuity branches off into both an Aligned continuity and a new Primax continuity. But official sources don't seem to be decided about what's what right now.

In this video interview, the interviewer asks Tieger about that:

Greg Miller: "For you, I mean, when you guys are sitting down and coming up with the story and planning it, are you setting it in the cartoon universe, or it is your own universe but heavily influenced by--?"
Matt Tieger: *clears throat* "I think, wha-- The latter is accurate. We generally use the G1 cartoon as our primary touchstone, but we also look at comics-- Uh, some of the older comics I really enjoyed, particularly the UK comics, actually, were very very good."
Greg Miller: *Jokingly emulates a British Optimus Prime, then stops*
Matt Tieger: "Um, so we do look at tons and tons of source material, but, at the end of the day, we do kind of carve our own path."

So, he does recognize that it's not the same universe as the G1 cartoon, and in other interviews, he's talked about how the game is part of the greater current canon of the "bible" that Hasbro recently put together, which constitutes the Aligned Continuity.

That doesn't contradict anything I said. But I'm sure he did tell them in one of those interviews that "it leads straight into G1".

Also, we still don't know if Aligned is meant to be one continuity, or many. Evidence isn't lining up to just one conclusion here.

Edit: In this interview, Matt clearly states that "it ends at the beginning of G1".

orangeitis wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Should be common knowledge by now that this isn't G1.

Tell that to Matt Tieger, who blatantly said in one of this year's E3 interviews that Fall of Cybertron tells the story that leads up to G1.

For all we know, WFC/FoC's continuity branches off into both an Aligned continuity and a new Primax continuity. But official sources don't seem to be decided about what's what right now.

In this video interview, the interviewer asks Tieger about that:

Greg Miller: "For you, I mean, when you guys are sitting down and coming up with the story and planning it, are you setting it in the cartoon universe, or it is your own universe but heavily influenced by--?"
Matt Tieger: *clears throat* "I think, wha-- The latter is accurate. We generally use the G1 cartoon as our primary touchstone, but we also look at comics-- Uh, some of the older comics I really enjoyed, particularly the UK comics, actually, were very very good."
Greg Miller: *Jokingly emulates a British Optimus Prime, then stops*
Matt Tieger: "Um, so we do look at tons and tons of source material, but, at the end of the day, we do kind of carve our own path."

So, he does recognize that it's not the same universe as the G1 cartoon, and in other interviews, he's talked about how the game is part of the greater current canon of the "bible" that Hasbro recently put together, which constitutes the Aligned Continuity.

That doesn't contradict anything I said. But I'm sure he did tell them in one of those interviews that "it leads straight into G1".

Also, we still don't know if Aligned is meant to be one continuity, or many. Evidence isn't lining up to just one conclusion here.

Edit: In this interview, Matt clearly states that "it ends at the beginning of G1".

Matt Tieger wrote:It ends, kind of ... at the beginning of G1, in the sense that you are, eh the Autobots and Decepticons have been at war for a long time period. They don't even know where they're headed ultimately we know that they end up on earth.

He says kind of, just like all other Transformers stories kinda have the same premise.
But tell me this, if this is supposed to be G1, please tell me why Bumblebee can talk in all incarnations of G1, while this game tells the story of why he's mute in Transformers Prime?

Dead Metal wrote:But tell me this, if this is supposed to be G1, please tell me why Bumblebee can talk in all incarnations of G1, while this game tells the story of why he's mute in Transformers Prime?

For the same reason Lugnut is in a G1 continuity now.

Are you saying the Bay films are in Prime continuity because 'Bee is mute in them?

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:But tell me this, if this is supposed to be G1, please tell me why Bumblebee can talk in all incarnations of G1, while this game tells the story of why he's mute in Transformers Prime?

For the same reason Lugnut is in a G1 continuity now.

Are you saying the Bay films are in Prime continuity because 'Bee is mute in them?

No, the statement is this:
The game shows us how Prime Bumblebee losses his ability to speak. Remember, War For Cybertron was set in the Prime/ Aligned continuity it's only logical that the sequel to it is also set in the Prime continuity.
We've been over this for the past two years, War for Cybertron is part of the Prime continuity not G1.
Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

A thirteen and a half minute video on Escalation and I still don't have an answer to the biggest question on my mind: will FoC Escalation give the player points for assists?

It's the single biggest, most retarded aspect of the co-op mode. All that talk of working together, of talking to each other, of spending points together, but you can't earn points together. I'm royally f**ked off with using a third of my ammunition taking on a Titan only to lose the kill to some asshole who's been hidden in a corner somewhere waiting for things to quieten down.

Another article on wfc:
http://gamerant.com/transformers-fall-o ... ao-154197/
This one by text.

lolz at the Cliffjumper typo as well.

Dead Metal wrote:No, the statement is this:
The game shows us how Prime Bumblebee losses his ability to speak. Remember, War For Cybertron was set in the Prime/ Aligned continuity it's only logical that the sequel to it is also set in the Prime continuity.

Again, we don't know if Aligned is even one continuity yet, or many.

I'm not saying WFC/FoC isn't in the aligned continuity family, I'm saying that the G1 continuity family might share WFC/FoC with Aligned. It's more than possible. Remember, stranger things HAVE happened in the Transformers franchise.

Dead Metal wrote:We've been over this for the past two years, War for Cybertron is part of the Prime continuity not G1.

We've been "over this" because both sides have evidence that WFC/FoC are in each respective continuity family. What you're trying to do is ignore contradicting evidence and claim that everything points to your conclusion.

I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

Sodan-1 wrote:A thirteen and a half minute video on Escalation and I still don't have an answer to the biggest question on my mind: will FoC Escalation give the player points for assists?

It's the single biggest, most retarded aspect of the co-op mode. All that talk of working together, of talking to each other, of spending points together, but you can't earn points together. I'm royally f**ked off with using a third of my ammunition taking on a Titan only to lose the kill to some asshole who's been hidden in a corner somewhere waiting for things to quieten down.

I know that feel bro.

Still, I'm pretty good in Escalation (if I do say so myself, placed around 100 in the leaderboards so either nerd or fan or kinda good). But that isn't my biggest annoyance, that is reserved for the weapon stealers. If you don't have the best connection you have to press "use" after you bought the gun to pick it up. And there are trolls that steal the gun you bought. You just have to be alone at a shop to buy stuff, never let anyone close.

But even more annoying is those trolls that go outside of the map and continue to play so that the match doesn't end. Those kids that say they "know a way out of the map". Sure, everybody knows that by now, just don't do it play normal and show some skill

Anyway, Escalation is the only reason I still play the game almost ever since the launch. It's so great to play an iconic character with 3 others and just battle hordes of enemies.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:No, the statement is this:
The game shows us how Prime Bumblebee losses his ability to speak. Remember, War For Cybertron was set in the Prime/ Aligned continuity it's only logical that the sequel to it is also set in the Prime continuity.

Again, we don't know if Aligned is even one continuity yet, or many.

Hasbro says it's one continuity.

orangeitis wrote:I'm not saying WFC/FoC isn't in the aligned continuity family, I'm saying that the G1 continuity family might share WFC/FoC with Aligned. It's more than possible. Remember, stranger things HAVE happened in the Transformers franchise.

Dead Metal wrote:We've been over this for the past two years, War for Cybertron is part of the Prime continuity not G1.

We've been "over this" because both sides have evidence that WFC/FoC are in each respective continuity family. What you're trying to do is ignore contradicting evidence and claim that everything points to your conclusion.

No sorry, you're confusing me with you, I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.


Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

Dead Metal wrote:No sorry, you're confusing me with you,

Chill out, no need to be hostile. =D

Dead Metal wrote:I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

It's still your conclusion. You merely share it with Hasbro.

Dead Metal wrote:You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.

I'm not ignoring Hasbro's word, I'm simply acknowledging that inconsistencies take precedent in saying that the fictions are in different continuities over Hasbro's word. The similarities of the different fictions is irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

That doesn't matter to the issue here.

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

Dead Metal wrote:Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

I'm well aware what they said. But again, it's irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

Yes, I am trying to be reasonable. You seem like you're assuming that I'm not because you don't agree with my open-minded view.

I'm not trying to say that Exodus/Exiles, WFC/FoC, or Prime isn't set in the same universe. I'm saying that it's very unlikely from a continuity perspective, and that(from what Matt Tieger said about it leading into G1) WFC/FoC could also be set in a new G1 universe, where the timeline branches out.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

No, it does not. I'm presenting logic and evidence for my case. You have just made a claim that doesn't make any sense. Reptiles aren't sapient, so they are incapable of actively wanting to destroy the human species. Your reasoning is becoming increasingly irrational.

Just because you don't understand the other side's view don't mean that their view is as flawed as you perceive it to be. It just means that you're arguing without investigation, and are ignorant to the logic of the one(s) you're talking to. The very fact that you made such a comparison is evidence that you're being unreasonable, and if you're not gonna take your side of the issue on faith and refuse to take the time to understand, then you've already lost the argument.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I've seen you use the term "Primax" to refer to G1-related media. Animated has its own universal cluster called "Malgus", which is very much separate from Primax.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I've seen you use the term "Primax" to refer to G1-related media. Animated has its own universal cluster called "Malgus", which is very much separate from Primax.

Ah, that's right. Thanks for clearing that up. =)

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

It's still your conclusion. You merely share it with Hasbro.

No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Dead Metal wrote:You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.

I'm not ignoring Hasbro's word, I'm simply acknowledging that inconsistencies take precedent in saying that the fictions are in different continuities over Hasbro's word. The similarities of the different fictions is irrelevant.

So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

That doesn't matter to the issue here.

It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I don't even want to comment on that one.

Dead Metal wrote:Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

I'm well aware what they said. But again, it's irrelevant.

I'll save this for later, it comes in handy.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

Yes, I am trying to be reasonable. You seem like you're assuming that I'm not because you don't agree with my open-minded view.

I'm not trying to say that Exodus/Exiles, WFC/FoC, or Prime isn't set in the same universe. I'm saying that it's very unlikely from a continuity perspective, and that(from what Matt Tieger said about it leading into G1) WFC/FoC could also be set in a new G1 universe, where the timeline branches out.
[/quote]
This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.


It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

No, it does not. I'm presenting logic and evidence for my case. You have just made a claim that doesn't make any sense. Reptiles aren't sapient, so they are incapable of actively wanting to destroy the human species. Your reasoning is becoming increasingly irrational.

You have just explained to me the point of the comparison I made. Because, there are people who believe everything that's on this page and that's who I compared you to.

Just because you don't understand the other side's view don't mean that their view is as flawed as you perceive it to be. It just means that you're arguing without investigation, and are ignorant to the logic of the one(s) you're talking to. The very fact that you made such a comparison is evidence that you're being unreasonable, and if you're not gonna take your side of the issue on faith and refuse to take the time to understand, then you've already lost the argument.

No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC. Prime and Megatron used to be brothers, etc etc, last of the primes, etc, and then WFC is supposed to be connected to Prime, and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap? Seems like such a mess.

Wait, why do I care about the movies.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC.

"Movie Prequel", "Defiance", "Tales of the Fallen", and "Foundation" say otherwise.

MINDVVIPE wrote:and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap?

Prime has no ties to the movies.

Sabrblade wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC.

"Movie Prequel", "Defiance", "Tales of the Fallen", and "Foundation" say otherwise.

MINDVVIPE wrote:and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap?

Prime has no ties to the movies.

Gotcha. There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

MINDVVIPE wrote:There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

It was stated at BotCon 2011 that the differing effects between the Dark Energon of the games/books and the Dark Energon of the cartoon were due to the different time periods. Present-day Dark Energon acts differently from ancient Dark Energon, though both still hold the same corrupting properties.

Sabrblade wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

It was stated at BotCon 2011 that the differing effects between the Dark Energon of the games/books and the Dark Energon of the cartoon were due to the different time periods. Present-day Dark Energon acts differently from ancient Dark Energon, though both still hold the same corrupting properties.

Elves did it, gotcha.
I don't need so much reasoning to enjoy it anyway, just curious. Thanks.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Elves did it, gotcha.

Dead Metal wrote:No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

This part right here demonstrates that you don't understand my position on this. Your analogy is far from accurate.

First of all, I'm not ignoring what Hasbro is saying. I'm merely acknowledging what Matt Tieger(you know, the one who's in charge of creating the WFC/FoC games), and considering his word to be just as official as, say, Aaron Archer, when it comes to WFC and FoC.

Dead Metal wrote:Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Well I disagree, as Hasbro didn't make the games up themselves.

Dead Metal wrote:So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

In a narrow sense, but I don't mean that narrow of a sense. If that were true, certain chapters of Exodus would be in separate continuities with other chapters. I'm merely referring to major events, like how and when Megatron met Starscream, which is different in Exodus compared to the WFC meeting.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

Not to you, at least.

Dead Metal wrote:It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

I'm not "trying" to fit anything in anywhere. I give credit to where credit is due, and I care about the truth. You seem to want to disregard one official word for another... I wish to accept both, if they weren't in contradiction.

Dead Metal wrote:This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.

WFC and FoC were meant to be based from G1. This is what Matt Tieger wanted.

Dead Metal wrote:It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

It's not insane. Again, you simply just don't understand it.

Dead Metal wrote:But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Because it wasn't meant to be a prequel to anything except G1.

Open-mindedness does not mean you should accept every viewpoint no matter how irrational. It means accepting evidence, and avoiding faith, which by definition, is a belief in something in spite of contradicting evidence.

Dead Metal wrote:No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

If assuming you're correct, then the contradiction there would be that Exodus too is telling of the same history, thus still rendering that untrue.

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion and assume what he means though, because I don't know.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Indeed it is, I agree 100%. But Matt Tieger is a creator of the work in question, so by that, he should count too.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]I have no faith. If I'm presented with enough evidence, I'll believe the evidence provided. But if two contradicting evidences are provided, I'm not just going to cling to one of them.


I'll ask you this: Do you think that what Matt Tieger says should be taken as official? Why or why not?

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

This part right here demonstrates that you don't understand my position on this. Your analogy is far from accurate.

First of all, I'm not ignoring what Hasbro is saying. I'm merely acknowledging what Matt Tieger(you know, the one who's in charge of creating the WFC/FoC games), and considering his word to be just as official as, say, Aaron Archer, when it comes to WFC and FoC.

Here he clearly states that it's for the new universe going forward.

You also have to take into account that in the video where he says it kinda leads into G1, that the guy he was talking to has no idea of what Prime is.

Dead Metal wrote:Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Well I disagree, as Hasbro didn't make the games up themselves.

They did however create the Aligned continuity "Bible", of which WFC and FOC is an adaptation of.
The only times Matt mentions G1 is in explanations about the designs and inspiration, and well to better make people understand what he's talking about.

Dead Metal wrote:So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

In a narrow sense, but I don't mean that narrow of a sense. If that were true, certain chapters of Exodus would be in separate continuities with other chapters. I'm merely referring to major events, like how and when Megatron met Starscream, which is different in Exodus compared to the WFC meeting.

Yes, Exodus is also inconsistent in and of itself, Starscream being introduced as a Scientist and then later somehow lacking scientific knowledge.

Simply put, that's what you get when different teams work on the same material, take a look at Maximum Carnage if you want another good example of inconsistencies in a continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

Not to you, at least.

Oh but to you? Tell me more.

Dead Metal wrote:It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

I'm not "trying" to fit anything in anywhere. I give credit to where credit is due, and I care about the truth. You seem to want to disregard one official word for another... I wish to accept both, if they weren't in contradiction.

As said before, Matt Tieger said himself that it's for the new material.

Dead Metal wrote:This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.

WFC and FoC were meant to be based from G1. This is what Matt Tieger wanted.

Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

Also, where do you get this from that Tieger wanted it that way, from that one interview, while ignoring all other interviews and press releases Tieger had?

Dead Metal wrote:It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

It's not insane. Again, you simply just don't understand it.

Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

Dead Metal wrote:But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Because it wasn't meant to be a prequel to anything except G1.

Wrong, it was commissioned as the back story for Aligned, you're trying to make it fit for both, which is trying to keep the cake while also eating it.

How about you prove to me that WFC isn't also the back story to the Movies, Armada and Ghostbusters?
Just because you don't understand my point that goes against official word doesn't make it any less valid.

Open-mindedness does not mean you should accept every viewpoint no matter how irrational. It means accepting evidence, and avoiding faith, which by definition, is a belief in something in spite of contradicting evidence.

So if you know what faith means, why did you say that I needed faith to believe your point?
How about the contradicting evidence of this being in G1? Or wait, no that doesn't count for you does it.

Dead Metal wrote:No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

If assuming you're correct, then the contradiction there would be that Exodus too is telling of the same history, thus still rendering that untrue.

Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion and assume what he means though, because I don't know.

But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Indeed it is, I agree 100%. But Matt Tieger is a creator of the work in question, so by that, he should count too.

Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]I have no faith. If I'm presented with enough evidence, I'll believe the evidence provided. But if two contradicting evidences are provided, I'm not just going to cling to one of them.
[/quote]
There is no evidence that this is part of G1, unless a new G1 universe shows up and uses WFC as its history.
There is also the special G1 download pack, that comes with G1 skins, you know the one that's advertised with "relive history with the G1 pack".
If this would fit in or bee the back story to G1, wouldn't it be advertised as "Earth-mode pack"?

I'll ask you this: Do you think that what Matt Tieger says should be taken as official? Why or why not?

Yes it should be, but don't forget the times he states it's for the new universe, oh wait then again the creators of BW intended "Welcome to the Darkside" to be a Star Wars reference and not the name of the ship, and "Unicron Spawn" to be an insult ala "Son of a B**ch", but look what happened to those.

Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

lolz, there's nothing intellectual about it.
It's just two people getting angry about something silly.

Dead Metal wrote:Here he clearly states that it's for the new universe going forward.

Dead Metal wrote:As said before, Matt Tieger said himself that it's for the new material.

Of course. But it seems as though Hasbro is forcing Matt and his team to adhere to Aligned in FoC, when originally, they were going for a more G1ish universe.

Dead Metal wrote:You also have to take into account that in the video where he says it kinda leads into G1, that the guy he was talking to has no idea of what Prime is.

Why? Unless there was proof that was relevant, it has no bearing on the issue. If he was trying to "dumb it down", there's no actual evidence for it. Merely your assumption.

Dead Metal wrote:They did however create the Aligned continuity "Bible", of which WFC and FOC is an adaptation of.
The only times Matt mentions G1 is in explanations about the designs and inspiration, and well to better make people understand what he's talking about.

Matt don't mention Aligned any more than that either though.

Dead Metal wrote:Simply put, that's what you get when different teams work on the same material, take a look at Maximum Carnage if you want another good example of inconsistencies in a continuity.

Sorry, that isn't an argument for WFC/FoC being strictly in the Prime universe. Yes, works with entirely different art styles and major inconsistencies to be part of the same universe. But the difference is who is deciding what's what. Is it the company running the franchise? Or is it the author, creator, or orchestrator of the specific work in question? Simply put: In this case, you're favoring the former, and I'm favoring the latter.

But it can get more complicated than that. If the company forces the creator of the fiction to adhere to the universal continuity, disregarding the creator's intent and any inconsistencies in the continuity it would create, it creates a rift in the creator's continuity as the creator's ideas are forced to turn direction.

Not to mention that some terms when dealing with continuity are vague at best. Many officials at Hasbro might consider all "G1" universes in one universe, despite different authors/creators, vast inconsistencies and storytellings between works, and different styles and compliments of characters.

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, where do you get this from that Tieger wanted it that way, from that one interview, while ignoring all other interviews and press releases Tieger had?

I'm not ignoring anything. My conclusion is based on his statements in all of his interviews.

Dead Metal wrote:Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

You misunderstand the nature on different continuities within a continuity family. They don't 'allow' each other to be grouped with them. What makes them grouped into continuity families are merely aesthetical, plot, and character similarities with each other. Timeline inconsistencies usually warrant separation by universes.

Dead Metal wrote:Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. I never said that WFC/FoC fits anywhere into existing G1 continuities. I said they might fit into a G1 continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:Wrong, it was commissioned as the back story for Aligned, you're trying to make it fit for both, which is trying to keep the cake while also eating it.

I'm not trying to make anything do anything. I'm merely acknowledging more facts than you are.

Dead Metal wrote:How about you prove to me that WFC isn't also the back story to the Movies, Armada and Ghostbusters?

I don't have to. You don't prove negatives in that sense. Besides, WFC wasn't mentioned to be a bakground story to Armada or Ghostbusters. It was only mentioned to be a backstory to G1 and Prime.

Dead Metal wrote:Just because you don't understand my point that goes against official word doesn't make it any less valid.

But you misunderstand that I'm trying to go against Hasbro's word. You're the one that's trying to go against official word by disregarding Matt Tieger's explanations as mere G1 references. I'm willing to accept both Hasbro's and Tieger's explanations, but they're in contradiction. Which is why I offered the explanation that WFC/FoC might be both a G1 and a Prime backstory.

Dead Metal wrote:So if you know what faith means, why did you say that I needed faith to believe your point?

I did not say that.

Dead Metal wrote:How about the contradicting evidence of this being in G1? Or wait, no that doesn't count for you does it.

There is no contradicting evidence to WFC or FoC being in a Primax-cluster(G1) universe, nor does it contradict being in an Aligned universe. But in the same universe as the G1 or Prime cartoons or Exodus/G1 comics? There are plenty of contradictions there.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

Dead Metal wrote:But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Please point out where I have jumped to any conclusions.

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

Dead Metal wrote:There is no evidence that this is part of G1, unless a new G1 universe shows up and uses WFC as its history.

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make all this time. What are you arguing about if you agree with me?

Dead Metal wrote:There is also the special G1 download pack, that comes with G1 skins, you know the one that's advertised with "relive history with the G1 pack".
If this would fit in or bee the back story to G1, wouldn't it be advertised as "Earth-mode pack"?

Irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it should be, but don't forget the times he states it's for the new universe, oh wait then again the creators of BW intended "Welcome to the Darkside" to be a Star Wars reference and not the name of the ship, and "Unicron Spawn" to be an insult ala "Son of a B**ch", but look what happened to those.

Now you're being nonsensical. What's wrong with WFC being an introduction into a new G1 universe? Is it that hard to accept as a possibility?

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

We really should make a thread specifically for this though, I feel bad about hijacking poor Metroplex's discussion thread.

But as long as Dead Metal stays civil and don't whip out more unintellectual insults, I'll be fine with it.

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

Haha you said it!

Not to be a third party, but I thought WfC/FoC was supposed to be a prequel to the Prime continuity, but mainly G1-inspired and it was as simple as that...? Or do I need to watch more Prime?

(Anyway! If anyone has the final word in this, surely it's Encyclopedic Teletraan of Sabrblade...? XD)

Dead Metal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

lolz, there's nothing intellectual about it.
It's just two people getting angry about something silly.

sure there is! Within all the back-and-forth you guys are doing are some very smart points each of you are making.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

I think the stories of the games are more of a joint-effort between High Moon and Hasbro, with High Moon providing the more specific plot details, and Hasbro giving the basic overall plot and some pointers on how it's supposed to abide by the established timeline of the Binder. Though, now that I think about it, this would be a good question to ask at the next BotCon or whatever convention next has a FOC panel.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

In the specific cases of the Bay movies, I think the way those movies and their comics and novel adaptations are treated is that, while the final cut versions of the movies themselves are treated as the most canon versions, anything in the adaptations that didn't make it into the films that doesn't contradict the films themselves (like certain details about the Harvester in ROTF) can also be considered canon to the films' continuity, while anything in the adaptations that is in conflict with the films (like Barricade outright dying in the Movie 1 comic) is definitely not canon to the films. Though, this is still a shaky idea, but it does better help the continuity of the films work with their prequel/sequel comics.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

What immediately follows after his saying that it's grounded in the G1 cartoon makes it sound like means that the game's character aesthetics are grounded in the G1 cartoon, meaning that the designs (rather than the entire game) are directly taken from the G1 cartoon and then, as he says, modernized to get the new look we have now.

orangeitis wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

We really should make a thread specifically for this though, I feel bad about hijacking poor Metroplex's discussion thread.

But as long as Dead Metal stays civil and don't whip out more unintellectual insults, I'll be fine with it.

No worries. Though, whenever such a thread is ever made, it never gets as investing as this discussion has become, so I'm enjoying it as is.

Swiftknife24 wrote:Haha you said it!

Not to be a third party, but I thought WfC/FoC was supposed to be a prequel to the Prime continuity, but mainly G1-inspired and it was as simple as that...? Or do I need to watch more Prime?

(Anyway! If anyone has the final word in this, surely it's Encyclopedic Teletraan of Sabrblade...? XD)

Now this is kinda unfair and I usualy don't like doing it, but since Sabreblade has brought up some of the points I was going to bring up, I will simply elaborate.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

I think the stories of the games are more of a joint-effort between High Moon and Hasbro, with High Moon providing the more specific plot details, and Hasbro giving the basic overall plot and some pointers on how it's supposed to abide by the established timeline of the Binder. Though, now that I think about it, this would be a good question to ask at the next BotCon or whatever convention next has a FOC panel.

That is indeed how this works, Hasbro submits a story and bible, highlighting what they want to have in the game, High Moon adapts it and submits changes. Some of which make it in others don't.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

In the specific cases of the Bay movies, I think the way those movies and their comics and novel adaptations are treated is that, while the final cut versions of the movies themselves are treated as the most canon versions, anything in the adaptations that didn't make it into the films that doesn't contradict the films themselves (like certain details about the Harvester in ROTF) can also be considered canon to the films' continuity, while anything in the adaptations that is in conflict with the films (like Barricade outright dying in the Movie 1 comic) is definitely not canon to the films. Though, this is still a shaky idea, but it does better help the continuity of the films work with their prequel/sequel comics.

The Transformers Movie comics are all made to be in continuity with the movies, which is why the writers always work closely with idw. Sadly the comics have dead lines to adhere to in terms of getting work done while movies can be changed very close to the release date. The first TF movie for instance received its final cut two weeks before the premier, a point in which the comics had already been trade form.
Reign of Starscream even went through 4 rewrites before the movie team gave the final OK, they even referenced it in ROTF and changed Starscreams character model to match that of the comic.

Dead Metal wrote:But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Please point out where I have jumped to any conclusions.

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

What immediately follows after his saying that it's grounded in the G1 cartoon makes it sound like means that the game's character aesthetics are grounded in the G1 cartoon, meaning that the designs (rather than the entire game) are directly taken from the G1 cartoon and then, as he says, modernized to get the new look we have now.

Firstly, you're jumping to conclusions by misunderstanding what is being said and then taking things out of context and arranging them with a seed of truth to justify your beliefs, and make them more believable, which is the exact same thing conspiracy theorists do. Which brings us back to the Lizardmen.

Ah that video, OK let me quote what he says:

Matt Tieger wrote:Honestly, this is the game that I've been waiting 25 years for to play. It's very nostalgic in that it's grounded in the Generation 1, G1, 1984 cartoon. We took a lot of our colours, feel, and style for the characters when we designed them and then modernised those. So we figured out what made an Autobot an Autobot and a Decepticon a Decepticon, and we figured out the styles for those but it all had to be grounded in that cartoon feel - but modern, and realistic, and gritty.

He's talking about the design aspect of the game, here's another video in which he elaborates on this:

Design team including Tieger wrote:What we first did - was a lot of research. And we came up with a story that was always touching back to G1, that cartoon from the '80s, right? And made sure that that was our primary touchstone, and then we drew inspiration from other places but, that was our cornerstone.

And we went back to the Generation 1 cartoon, and the Generation 1 movie, and then there where other influences like Tron, and Bladerunner, and some of the textual sciencefiction stuff that we tried to bring in like Aliens.

He's talking about feeling and the design style, he's not talking about this being part of it. So if you try to use him talking about the feel and design of the game being similar and based on G1 as your argument for it being G1, well you're also putting this in the same universes as Tron, Aliens, and Blade Runner.

^ Some quote tag code needs a fixin' above for the movie response.

Sabrblade wrote:^ Some quote tag code needs a fixin' above for the movie response.

I know, you broke it in the first place, I've already tried 3 times but to no avail.

I think I see what the problem is. When I last responded to orangeitis, I accidentally left in some bits of his quoted post that I forgot to erase, which caused your post to get a bit jumbled up when responding to us both. I edited my post to get rid of the unwanted bits, and have also attempted to fix the code of you post for ya. Here ya go.

Dead Metal wrote:Now this is kinda unfair and I usualy don't like doing it, but since Sabreblade has brought up some of the points I was going to bring up, I will simply elaborate.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

I think the stories of the games are more of a joint-effort between High Moon and Hasbro, with High Moon providing the more specific plot details, and Hasbro giving the basic overall plot and some pointers on how it's supposed to abide by the established timeline of the Binder. Though, now that I think about it, this would be a good question to ask at the next BotCon or whatever convention next has a FOC panel.

That is indeed how this works, Hasbro submits a story and bible, highlighting what they want to have in the game, High Moon adapts it and submits changes. Some of which make it in others don't.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

In the specific cases of the Bay movies, I think the way those movies and their comics and novel adaptations are treated is that, while the final cut versions of the movies themselves are treated as the most canon versions, anything in the adaptations that didn't make it into the films that doesn't contradict the films themselves (like certain details about the Harvester in ROTF) can also be considered canon to the films' continuity, while anything in the adaptations that is in conflict with the films (like Barricade outright dying in the Movie 1 comic) is definitely not canon to the films. Though, this is still a shaky idea, but it does better help the continuity of the films work with their prequel/sequel comics.

The Transformers Movie comics are all made to be in continuity with the movies, which is why the writers always work closely with idw. Sadly the comics have dead lines to adhere to in terms of getting work done while movies can be changed very close to the release date. The first TF movie for instance received its final cut two weeks before the premier, a point in which the comics had already been trade form.
Reign of Starscream even went through 4 rewrites before the movie team gave the final OK, they even referenced it in ROTF and changed Starscreams character model to match that of the comic.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

What immediately follows after his saying that it's grounded in the G1 cartoon makes it sound like means that the game's character aesthetics are grounded in the G1 cartoon, meaning that the designs (rather than the entire game) are directly taken from the G1 cartoon and then, as he says, modernized to get the new look we have now.

Ah that video, OK let me quote what he says:

Matt Tieger wrote:Honestly, this is the game that I've been waiting 25 years for to play. It's very nostalgic in that it's grounded in the Generation 1, G1, 1984 cartoon. We took a lot of our colours, feel, and style for the characters when we designed them and then modernised those. So we figured out what made an Autobot an Autobot and a Decepticon a Decepticon, and we figured out the styles for those but it all had to be grounded in that cartoon feel - but modern, and realistic, and gritty.

He's talking about the design aspect of the game, here's another video in which he elaborates on this:

Design team including Tieger wrote:What we first did - was a lot of research. And we came up with a story that was always touching back to G1, that cartoon from the '80s, right? And made sure that that was our primary touchstone, and then we drew inspiration from other places but, that was our cornerstone.

And we went back to the Generation 1 cartoon, and the Generation 1 movie, and then there where other influences like Tron, and Bladerunner, and some of the textual sciencefiction stuff that we tried to bring in like Aliens.

He's talking about feeling and the design style, he's not talking about this being part of it. So if you try to use him talking about the feel and design of the game being similar and based on G1 as your argument for it being G1, well you're also putting this in the same universes as Tron, Aliens, and Blade Runner.

THanks, but I had another try after my last post and managed to fix it, and while I was at it I changed a few minor things.

Dead Metal wrote:Now this is kinda unfair and I usualy don't like doing it, but since Sabreblade has brought up some of the points I was going to bring up, I will simply elaborate.

Fair is fair in debates, man. The purpose of the debates is to come to as close as a resolve of the issue at hand while using the merits of your arguments as tools, and if either side should understand that their opponent's arguments carry more factual weight, they should withdraw from the debate, and hopefully use the proper facts next time.

Give me all you've got, because that's what I'm giving you. =D

Dead Metal wrote:That is indeed how this works, Hasbro submits a story and bible, highlighting what they want to have in the game, High Moon adapts it and submits changes. Some of which make it in others don't.

As I understand it, High Moon didn't even know about Aligned till well into the developmental stage of War For Cybertron, if not after they finished with the development.

Dead Metal wrote:The Transformers Movie comics are all made to be in continuity with the movies, which is why the writers always work closely with idw. Sadly the comics have dead lines to adhere to in terms of getting work done while movies can be changed very close to the release date. The first TF movie for instance received its final cut two weeks before the premier, a point in which the comics had already been trade form.
Reign of Starscream even went through 4 rewrites before the movie team gave the final OK, they even referenced it in ROTF and changed Starscreams character model to match that of the comic.

If the Transformers Movie comics are all apparently made to be in continuity with the movies, how is it that the comics have their own "versions" of the movies? For example, Skids and Mudflap die in the comics, yet in the same scene in Dark of the Moon, they weren't anywhere to be seen(except as cars in the building, or so I heard)

Dead Metal wrote:Firstly, you're jumping to conclusions by misunderstanding what is being said and then taking things out of context and arranging them with a seed of truth to justify your beliefs, and make them more believable, which is the exact same thing conspiracy theorists do. Which brings us back to the Lizardmen.

Give me some specifics, please. Because I can't find where I've done that.

If you're talking about where I'm claiming that WFC/FOC might be connected to a new G1 universe, the fact is that it's entirely plausible. Whereas conspiracy theorists deny facts that prove their whole theory wrong in order to support their own(usually irrational) beliefs.

Dead Metal wrote:Ah that video, OK let me quote what he says:

Matt Tieger wrote:Honestly, this is the game that I've been waiting 25 years for to play. It's very nostalgic in that it's grounded in the Generation 1, G1, 1984 cartoon. We took a lot of our colours, feel, and style for the characters when we designed them and then modernised those. So we figured out what made an Autobot an Autobot and a Decepticon a Decepticon, and we figured out the styles for those but it all had to be grounded in that cartoon feel - but modern, and realistic, and gritty.

He's talking about the design aspect of the game, here's another video in which he elaborates on this:

Design team including Tieger wrote:What we first did - was a lot of research. And we came up with a story that was always touching back to G1, that cartoon from the '80s, right? And made sure that that was our primary touchstone, and then we drew inspiration from other places but, that was our cornerstone.

And we went back to the Generation 1 cartoon, and the Generation 1 movie, and then there where other influences like Tron, and Bladerunner, and some of the textual sciencefiction stuff that we tried to bring in like Aliens.

He's talking about feeling and the design style, he's not talking about this being part of it. So if you try to use him talking about the feel and design of the game being similar and based on G1 as your argument for it being G1, well you're also putting this in the same universes as Tron, Aliens, and Blade Runner.

But I'm not saying that WFC and FoC are in continuity with the G1 cartoon, I'm saying that there is a possibility that they exist within a Primax-cluster universe newly formed with WFC, which are all universes that are considered "G1" universes, as well as existing within an Aligned universe. That's what Matt seems to be pushing, and you haven't presented any facts that contradict that yet.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That is indeed how this works, Hasbro submits a story and bible, highlighting what they want to have in the game, High Moon adapts it and submits changes. Some of which make it in others don't.

As I understand it, High Moon didn't even know about Aligned till well into the developmental stage of War For Cybertron, if not after they finished with the development.

If that is so, provide me with proof, and I mean actual hard proof and not just you piecing things together.

Dead Metal wrote:The Transformers Movie comics are all made to be in continuity with the movies, which is why the writers always work closely with idw. Sadly the comics have dead lines to adhere to in terms of getting work done while movies can be changed very close to the release date. The first TF movie for instance received its final cut two weeks before the premier, a point in which the comics had already been released in trade form.
Reign of Starscream even went through 4 rewrites before the movie team gave the final OK, they even referenced it in ROTF and changed Starscreams character model to match that of the comic.

If the Transformers Movie comics are all apparently made to be in continuity with the movies, how is it that the comics have their own "versions" of the movies? For example, Skids and Mudflap die in the comics, yet in the same scene in Dark of the Moon, they weren't anywhere to be seen(except as cars in the building, or so I heard)

I already explained that to you, read the bolded parts.

And even earlier:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Dead Metal wrote:Firstly, you're jumping to conclusions by misunderstanding what is being said and then taking things out of context and arranging them with a seed of truth to justify your beliefs, and make them more believable, which is the exact same thing conspiracy theorists do. Which brings us back to the Lizardmen.

Give me some specifics, please. Because I can't find where I've done that.

If you're talking about where I'm claiming that WFC/FOC might be connected to a new G1 universe, the fact is that it's entirely plausible. Whereas conspiracy theorists deny facts that prove their whole theory wrong in order to support their own(usually irrational) beliefs.
[/quote]
It's not plausible, this world functions by different laws and ways, the technology is different, the characters are similar but different, the abilities are different.
Even if this splices of into different continuities, they would all be in the Aligned universal stream as in the ALINGED continuity family which is separate from Primax, and only universes in the Primax stream are G1.

It's exactly what you're doing, you're completely ignoring everything that states that it's something new and merely used the old material as inspiration for the look and for nostalgica. You ignore the parts of it only serving for inspiration, leave the parts mentioning G1, leave out the words that bring in vagueness like kinda, and then fill it in with your own thoughts and present it as something that makes sense.
[/quote]

Dead Metal wrote:Ah that video, OK let me quote what he says:

Matt Tieger wrote:Honestly, this is the game that I've been waiting 25 years for to play. It's very nostalgic in that it's grounded in the Generation 1, G1, 1984 cartoon. We took a lot of our colours, feel, and style for the characters when we designed them and then modernised those. So we figured out what made an Autobot an Autobot and a Decepticon a Decepticon, and we figured out the styles for those but it all had to be grounded in that cartoon feel - but modern, and realistic, and gritty.

He's talking about the design aspect of the game, here's another video in which he elaborates on this:

Design team including Tieger wrote:What we first did - was a lot of research. And we came up with a story that was always touching back to G1, that cartoon from the '80s, right? And made sure that that was our primary touchstone, and then we drew inspiration from other places but, that was our cornerstone.

And we went back to the Generation 1 cartoon, and the Generation 1 movie, and then there where other influences like Tron, and Bladerunner, and some of the textual sciencefiction stuff that we tried to bring in like Aliens.

He's talking about feeling and the design style, he's not talking about this being part of it. So if you try to use him talking about the feel and design of the game being similar and based on G1 as your argument for it being G1, well you're also putting this in the same universes as Tron, Aliens, and Blade Runner.

But I'm not saying that WFC and FoC are in continuity with the G1 cartoon, I'm saying that there is a possibility that they exist within a Primax-cluster universe newly formed with WFC, which are all universes that are considered "G1" universes, as well as existing within an Aligned universe. That's what Matt seems to be pushing, and you haven't presented any facts that contradict that yet.[/quote]
No, that is not what he has been pushing, what he has been pushing is a game that builds on nostalgia to get people to buy/ play it.
It is not set in any Primax continuity, not even a new one, every time he mentions that you completely ignore it and write it off as "irrelevant".

I never stated that you said it's set in the G1 cartoon, I quoted what he said, and that is that the main inspiration for the game is the G1 cartoon. Which you always use as proof of it being G1.

Why is it that the one time he said it ends kinda, not even definite but kinda, at the beginning of G1 as definite proof of this being set in a G1 universe, while every time he mentions how it's only used as inspiration and is it's own thing as "irrelevant" and that it "proves nothing"?

How about instead of asking me to bring in more proof for why it's not G1, which I have already done, had you seen any of the videos I and Sabre linked to, and instead provide us with your "obvious and undeniable proof" of this being G1. You know just the way I've been asking of you?

How am I supposed to "understand" your side of the argument if you present nothing but your own opinion?

Oh no, instead you question my intelligence and understanding while ignoring my points, calling official statements and facts "irrelevant" while insisting that you are right.



Now, provide me with actual proof, proof that has nothing to do with inspiration, design work, nostalgia, or comparisons. Hard actual proof of this fitting in with G1. You know the proof and evidence you keep bringing up.
If your next post doesn't contain anything of the like, I view this discussion as over and ended in my favour.

Dead Metal wrote:If that is so, provide me with proof, and I mean actual hard proof and not just you piecing things together.

I'm not gonna prove I'm "piecing things together", because I've never tried to piece things together. I've just been trying to explain to you that there's a possibility of something.

Dead Metal wrote:I already explained that to you, read the bolded parts.

That's not an explanation that the comics are in the same continuity as the movie. That's merely an acknowledgement that they were created by different writers.

Dead Metal wrote:It's not plausible, this world functions by different laws and ways, the technology is different, the characters are similar but different, the abilities are different.
Even if this splices of into different continuities, they would all be in the Aligned universal stream as in the ALINGED continuity family which is separate from Primax, and only universes in the Primax stream are G1.

That would imply that the Marvel comics aren't Primax because Grimlock isn't dumb as he is in the G1 cartoon, comic Soundwave isn't as loyal as he is in the (American) G1 cartoon, etc.

Different universes in the same cluster have differences. That don't determine that their definition as a member of that cluster is false.

Dead Metal wrote:It's exactly what you're doing, you're completely ignoring everything that states that it's something new and merely used the old material as inspiration for the look and for nostalgica. You ignore the parts of it only serving for inspiration, leave the parts mentioning G1, leave out the words that bring in vagueness like kinda, and then fill it in with your own thoughts and present it as something that makes sense.

I'm not ignoring that it's something new. Every Primax universe that was released after the G1 cartoon was something new. Being different in the aspects you're mentioning is irrelevant to whether it's a Primax universe or not.

Nostalgia? That's why Hasbro keeps using Optimus Prime, Megatron, etc. They're in every Transformers incarnation. Hasbro keeps using them for the same reasons that nostalgia-based aspects keep being used - They're recognizable. That has no bearing on this argument.

Dead Metal wrote:No, that is not what he has been pushing, what he has been pushing is a game that builds on nostalgia to get people to buy/ play it.
It is not set in any Primax continuity, not even a new one, every time he mentions that you completely ignore it and write it off as "irrelevant".

But he didn't proclaim that it's not set in a Primax universe. I said it's irrelevant because you're trying to use aspects of WFC or FoC to try proving that it's not a Primax at all, when those aspects don't have any bearing on whether it could be a Primax universe or not.

Dead Metal wrote:I never stated that you said it's set in the G1 cartoon, I quoted what he said, and that is that the main inspiration for the game is the G1 cartoon. Which you always use as proof of it being G1.

You're still misunderstanding me. I'm not trying to "prove it to be G1", I'm saying that there's a possibility for it to be considered a Primax universe as well as an Aligned universe. You're also ignoring the fact that I also understand that it's an Aligned universe whether or not it would also be considered a Primax universe.

Dead Metal wrote:Why is it that the one time he said it ends kinda, not even definite but kinda, at the beginning of G1 as definite proof of this being set in a G1 universe, while every time he mentions how it's only used as inspiration and is it's own thing as "irrelevant" and that it "proves nothing"?

I've never claimed it to be definitive proof that it's set in a G1 universe. I merely claimed that it's a possibility.

Dead Metal wrote:How about instead of asking me to bring in more proof for why it's not G1, which I have already done, had you seen any of the videos I and Sabre linked to, and instead provide us with your "obvious and undeniable proof" of this being G1. You know just the way I've been asking of you?

Dead Metal wrote:How am I supposed to "understand" your side of the argument if you present nothing but your own opinion?

I'm not presenting the opinion itself, I'm merely claiming it to be a possibility. That's what you seem to misunderstand. It's actually irrelevant whether or not it's my opinion.

Dead Metal wrote:Oh no, instead you question my intelligence and understanding while ignoring my points, calling official statements and facts "irrelevant" while insisting that you are right.

I'm claiming that there's a possibility, and that possibility exists whether the arguments you've presented that I've referred to as irrelevant are true or not. That's why.

Dead Metal wrote:Now, provide me with actual proof, proof that has nothing to do with inspiration, design work, nostalgia, or comparisons. Hard actual proof of this fitting in with G1. You know the proof and evidence you keep bringing up.
If your next post doesn't contain anything of the like, I view this discussion as over and ended in my favour.

Again, I'm not providing you with proof, as I'm not trying to prove that. I'm trying to explain to you that it's a possibility. You've been arguing with a straw man this whole time.

Yup this is over as you once again fail to bring anything valid to the discussion. However, I'll have to explain one other thing to you since you still can't grasp it, but it's the last time I try.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:It's not plausible, this world functions by different laws and ways, the technology is different, the characters are similar but different, the abilities are different.
Even if this splices of into different continuities, they would all be in the Aligned universal stream as in the ALINGED continuity family which is separate from Primax, and only universes in the Primax stream are G1.

That would imply that the Marvel comics aren't Primax because Grimlock isn't dumb as he is in the G1 cartoon, comic Soundwave isn't as loyal as he is in the (American) G1 cartoon, etc.

Different universes in the same cluster have differences. That don't determine that their definition as a member of that cluster is false.

The thing is, this is in the Aligned universal stream, which for the last time is separate from Primax.
So if this does split of into different universes they will still be within the same universal stream, the Aligned universal stream, a collection of universes that have a few differences but share the same principles and characters.
Separate from other universal streams, Universal streams do not cross or splice of from one another, they are a collection of universes that are fundamentally the same, even if the have a few differences.

All the G1 fiction is in the so-called "Primax Stream", and that's where they stay, they don't go and splice off into the Unicron trilogy, the Movies or Aligned, they stay separate.

for a simple comparison:

The American continent is the multiverse
the USA is a universal stream
Canada is also a universal stream
So is Mexico

Each of them have states/ autonomous communities or Universes
Each of those states or universes are similar according to their universal stream or country and share certain laws, but they have differences, some more than others

The countries or universal streams also share similarities but are much more different and separated

Aligned is a universal stream or country say Mexico

While Primax, which contains all the G1 universes ever, is another country, say Canada

Do you now understand why G1 can't share WFC/FOC with Aligned?

Well, if not, it's obvious that you need to go elsewhere to find help to understand it, because that's about as simple as I can put it.

Dead Metal wrote:The thing is, this is in the Aligned universal stream, which for the last time is separate from Primax.
So if this does split of into different universes they will still be within the same universal stream, the Aligned universal stream, a collection of universes that have a few differences but share the same principles and characters.
Separate from other universal streams, Universal streams do not cross or splice of from one another, they are a collection of universes that are fundamentally the same, even if the have a few differences.

All the G1 fiction is in the so-called "Primax Stream", and that's where they stay, they don't go and splice off into the Unicron trilogy, the Movies or Aligned, they stay separate.

for a simple comparison:

The American continent is the multiverse
the USA is a universal stream
Canada is also a universal stream
So is Mexico

Each of them have states/ autonomous communities or Universes
Each of those states or universes are similar according to their universal stream or country and share certain laws, but they have differences, some more than others

The countries or universal streams also share similarities but are much more different and separated

Aligned is a universal stream or country say Mexico

While Primax, which contains all the G1 universes ever, is another country, say Canada

Do you now understand why G1 can't share WFC/FOC with Aligned?

Well, if not, it's obvious that you need to go elsewhere to find help to understand it, because that's about as simple as I can put it.

We'll put aside the fact that the multiverse originated from one "core" universe at the dawn of time of the Transformers multiverse. We'll also put aside the fact that Aligned, like the Bay movies, aren't considered within the traditional Transformers multiverse.

What I'm talking about is intellectually, what Matt Tieger and his design team originally planned for WFC to be a Primax cluster universe. Yes, Hasbro is an authority over Tieger to market WFC and FOC as strictly an Aligned universe. But as far as Tieger's and his design team's intentions go, WFC and FOC is just as "G1" as it is Aligned.

Yes, officially, WFC and FOC are strictly Aligned, and Hasbro has decided to abandon all past continuities in favor of a new multiverse(which makes you wonder if Bay will adhere to that decision in TF4), but WFC was conceptualized before Hasbro's decision to make everything coincide with Aligned. That's the key point I'm trying to make. That window of time allows at least WFC to be considered a Primax cluster universe in the original TF multiverse, much like the Universe Bruticus Maximus toy could be considered a Primax-centric bot as well as a Bayverse bot after he was repackaged.

Get it now?

Dead Metal, you do realize that one series can exist in more than one universe, right? Look at the Beast Wars cartoon. It exists in the 3H/Fun Pub Beast Era comics universe, and also in the IDW Beast Wars comics universe. Both are separate universes from each other, yet they share the same cartoon events.

That's one of the points orangeitis was getting at. He knows good and well that the events of WFC/FOC exist in the Aligned continuity, but he's also suggesting that the same events could possibly also exist in a separate original Primax-based universe autonomous from any existing Primax universe, as a sort of micro-continuity.

He's not saying that these games existing in a Primax universe is a FACT, he's saying it as an IDEA.

As for the games' events existing in not only two separate universes but two separate universal clusters, it wouldn't be the first time something similar has happened. Take, for example, RiD and Car Robots. The RiD cartoon is confirmed as a Viron universe, while its Japanese counterpart, Car Robots exists in the complete separate universe of Primax. Only difference here being that the characters have different languages,dialogue, and names in each version, but as Beast Wars proves, even same-language series can occur more than one universe.

orangeitis wrote:We'll also put aside the fact that Aligned, like the Bay movies, aren't considered within the traditional Transformers multiverse.

The movies are in the multiverse. They reside within the Tyran cluster.