Orci & Kurtzman say lack of time kept them out of TF3

Hope that some 'fresh' ideas will be brought to TF3. But will it be the last? Was that posted somewhere by Bay?

I didn't realize these two worked on Hercules and Zena...I guess the lack of cyclops' running around with giant ball sacks, the constant non existence fart jokes of Gabrielle and the absence of and centaurs humping the well muscled leg of Zena made it difficult to notice. After watching the ROTF DVD I even noticed one of the kitchen bots even has a giant machine gun penis...I am glad these two jokers are off the 3rd installment, but realistically, a lot of the things I hated about the movies (and there were a lot of things I loved) came from Bay himself...so any writers brought on board are going to continue to dissapoint I fear. I love the argument that dinobots cant be justified, but you can still have a giant scorpion or metal jaguar for no reason...and didn't Orci even say he hates dinosaurs?...wtf man?

meh, two-bit over-hyped plagarists. Toodles boys.

I'm sad that these two are gone. People are willing to blame them for the gags, but remember: there was a third writer there too.

Now, compare Transformers, to TF:ROTF. One had a couple of adult gags, but not in abundance. It was for the most part a serious Sci-Fi action movie. The other had adult gags up the wazhoo, while still trying to market itself as a serious Sci-Fi action movie. The first was written by Orci and Kurtzman, the second adding on Kruger.

I know that correlation isn't causation, but come ON guys, we're supposed to be geeks. Just look at Star Trek, written by the pair which came out before ROTF. You look at that, and tell me that it's their fault the writting on ROTF was so... erronous.

I really hope Kruger tunes down the gags in the next one, and delivers a movie product with the same intellignce as they did. It'd be a tragic day for the film francise to go from great to bad to an utter mess.

I feel ya hard hacker,..and you bring up some really good points, but even transformers can't escape the blame, there was an 8 minute dialogue about masturbation, and bumblebee gave someone a golden shower. I will give ya this, the 2nd one was worse, but you can't deny that in writing the first film these two took a giant dump all over the source material and the well established characters (and michael bay doesnt help. He creates a robot character and literally just assigns a name from the various transformers incarnations and then just adds fart jokes,explosions and penis guns.) And as cheesy as that source material can be, its hard to believe it could messed even worse lol. The fact is I actually like the movies to some degree, and the franchise is hardly untouchable as far as change goes ..but it's not like there are any other live action transformers films to spend my money on or I probably would. There just needs to be a director or producer who actually knows and cares about the source material. Look at the Dark Knight, Spiderman or Iron Man, or Lord of the Rings. All had directors that give a shit lol. So here's hoping that 3 will be decent...I'll be there opening day for sure.

It was their lack of talent, not time, that finally got them away from the franchise. Thankfully.

Kurtsman: DER!! WEEZ GOT NO TIME, HURR-DURR! (fart)


Thats exactly like how it sounded and looked.

Oh if only 'lack of time' had kept them out of ROTF. I still think once they finished Star Trek and their other project, any talent they had was simply running on fumes. It's appalling to me that they didn't save their best effort for ROTF--thinking it would coast, while they would have to work to 'make' Star Trek.

And it really, in one sense, sickens me that they've gotten away with coasting. I haven't been able to bring myself to get a copy of the movie yet, because I know they're getting a cut.

HK, I hate bad writing. Even if it involves giant robots.

I just finished watching the ROTF DVD with their commentary. I am GLAD they won't be back. Seems like if it were up to these two, TF would be all bout the humans. Star Trek can have them.

omega666 wrote:I just finished watching the ROTF DVD with their commentary. I am GLAD they won't be back. Seems like if it were up to these two, TF would be all bout the humans. Star Trek can have them.

It's not just them, it's most of the studio, too. Remember at one point there was some discussion whether or not the robots would even be "alliowed to talk."

So much bile on the writers? Really? Have you even been reading the same information?

They are not to blame for the way that Transformers turned out. They wrote a SCRIPT TREATMENT right before the writer's strike, which was an "idea" of how the movie should be written. And if you look at the "idea" behind the movie... it wasn't bad in conception, just in execution.

Orci and Kurtzman are not responsible for the potty humor. That is BAY and all BAY. He's even admitted it.

"Yeah, I was like... hey, it would be cool to have two robots that were complete morons."

He is the one who started making the movie without a script. He is the one who said he was "writing" several new things into the script.

Xena and Hercules might have been a bit goofy at times... but it also could be dramatically serious. They know how to balance things. Both Fringe and Alias are highly dramatic shows with moderate humor. Star Trek was quite successful and a highly enjoyable film.

So what is different with Transformers? Bay.

He is one responsible for dog humping, wrecking ball swinging, pot brownie eating, yuck fest that was ROTF.

BB, you make some very good points.

It's true that when a script goes to a director, he can play with it any way he wants. It's his 'vision' we'll be seeing, after all.

But, if Orci/Kurtzman felt so strongly that their hypothetically brilliant script had been butchered by the Baymonster:

a) they could have withdrawn their names from it. Alan Moore threatened this HOW many times with Watchmen? That would show integrity, and a love of the script and a commitment to their work. They did not.

b) they could have been vocal about it. I seem to remember, and I could be wrong because, frankly, tracking Orci is on my list of things to do right after cleaning hair out of the drain, that they were pretty burbly both leading up to the press junket and afterwards. Again, if they felt Bay had ruined their script...where's the integrity?

c) Orci announced before the movie release that he would definitely not be coming back for TF3, because he had better things to do. So in a way, this is SO not news, right? He bailed on it before it even came out. DID he bail because Bay was ruining his script? It's possible, but that's not the reason Orci gave. NOR is it the reason ORci and Kurtzman gave in this 'news'. So....where's the integrity?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I think it's more than possible you're right. I KNOW you're right about Skids and Mudflap (ugh!!!!). But if we have to go by what they say, which is what they want, since they're coming out with this non-news to try and control the message (which we like to call 'propaganda') what they say is awfully quiet in any of this "Bay ruination".

I think it's interesting that this non-news (most of us here knew they wouldn't be back before ROTF opened, right?) is because of the harsh reviews the movie got. The studio might figure that if the two turkeys make a statement that they're out, we'll get *hope* that the third will be better.

Question: Are we dumb enough to fall for that? Or is BB right, and Bay's going to testicle up the third one even if Shakespeare himself wrote it?

HK, option three: a miracle occurs.

Black Bumblebee wrote:So much bile on the writers? Really? Have you even been reading the same information?

They are not to blame for the way that Transformers turned out. They wrote a SCRIPT TREATMENT right before the writer's strike, which was an "idea" of how the movie should be written. And if you look at the "idea" behind the movie... it wasn't bad in conception, just in execution.

Orci and Kurtzman are not responsible for the potty humor. That is BAY and all BAY. He's even admitted it.

"Yeah, I was like... hey, it would be cool to have two robots that were complete morons."

He is the one who started making the movie without a script. He is the one who said he was "writing" several new things into the script.

Xena and Hercules might have been a bit goofy at times... but it also could be dramatically serious. They know how to balance things. Both Fringe and Alias are highly dramatic shows with moderate humor. Star Trek was quite successful and a highly enjoyable film.

So what is different with Transformers? Bay.

He is one responsible for dog humping, wrecking ball swinging, pot brownie eating, yuck fest that was ROTF.

I gotta be honest, I'm thinking it was a cross between Bay and that writer who's taking control of TF3.

Here they go, I'm not sure about the whole third writer part. I mean, if he is a Bay-buddy then we
can only enjoy the TF3 toys. And possibly some cool action scenes. Honestly there's no writers strike
so they should make a good story, and mr. Bay should've learned from the reviews. Hopefully he will
say, okay f*ck it, no silly humor this time, get me some real sf serious writers and lets give the
fanboys what they want. I'm out of this after the third movie anyway.

But that'll probably won't be the case.

Hopefully our bots won't be stripped of their speech lines, they allready lost their dignity...

Noctorro, you bring up a decent point. The toys are actually pretty good. And I will MURDER someone if I don't get a Leader SS. So Hasbro seems to be doing a decent job most of the time with the toylines, so that even if the movie (IF, ha!!!) sucks, the toys will probably be good. That's something to look forward to.

As to whether or not Bay learned from the reviews, well.... Let's see: the reviews all said it SUCKED. But the box office said people loved it, suck and all.

Which speaks louder in Hollywood? 'Critics' or dollars? In a *recession*?

So I don't hold out much hope that Bay's suddenly going to see the light.

HK, I'm just praying Screamer doesn't die.

I thought it has been established by now that Michael Bay doesn't read reviews for his movies, and from what he has heard about the reviews by word of mouth has been something to the effect of "It is wrong to enjoy a fun movie."

... Wasn't there an up roar on this very site about dear Mr. Ebert saying just that?

Irregardless, according to those delightful DVD special features Bay's opinion is "if it is so bad, how did it make so much money?"

Black Bumblebee wrote:So much bile on the writers? Really? Have you even been reading the same information?

They are not to blame for the way that Transformers turned out. They wrote a SCRIPT TREATMENT right before the writer's strike, which was an "idea" of how the movie should be written. And if you look at the "idea" behind the movie... it wasn't bad in conception, just in execution.

Orci and Kurtzman are not responsible for the potty humor. That is BAY and all BAY. He's even admitted it.

"Yeah, I was like... hey, it would be cool to have two robots that were complete morons."

He is the one who started making the movie without a script. He is the one who said he was "writing" several new things into the script...

Why does everyone conveniently forget this fact?

If they're out of ideas, I have one... NO MORE DICK JOKES!

ROTF was not 'fresh' content as it was; the Sam/Spike has the matrix locked in his head was out of Marvel TFs #6-12, the Fallen v Primes(?!?) in 17, 000 B.C. was Shockwave v Dinobots in issue #8, the only truly new material was the stuff that just pissed me off... I don't know if the rumor about Unicron in the next movie is true or not, but if so, get a writer that is known to tackle that material and do it well, and BRING ON SIMON FURMAN!!

Black Bumblebee wrote:Xena and Hercules might have been a bit goofy at times... but it also could be dramatically serious. They know how to balance things. Both Fringe and Alias are highly dramatic shows with moderate humor. Star Trek was quite successful and a highly enjoyable film.

So it was news to me that they'd worked on Xena, Hercules and Alias, so I checked IMDB.

They barely did a season of each show.

As for Fringe, I love Fringe, unfortunately it's quickly becoming X-Files 2.0.

Success of Star Trek? I wouldn't give them the credit either. They went with pre-existing material and had Abrams guiding them.

I stand by my belief that these two aren't that great, the only reason they get attention is because of their association with Michael Bay.

hellkitty wrote:Oh if only 'lack of time' had kept them out of ROTF. I still think once they finished Star Trek and their other project, any talent they had was simply running on fumes. It's appalling to me that they didn't save their best effort for ROTF--thinking it would coast, while they would have to work to 'make' Star Trek.

And it really, in one sense, sickens me that they've gotten away with coasting. I haven't been able to bring myself to get a copy of the movie yet, because I know they're getting a cut.

HK, I hate bad writing. Even if it involves giant robots.

Actually, they really did have to work to get Star Trek as good as it was. The movie was already getting grief for not using the original cast and many thought it would automatically fail because of this. I do believe there script is one of the reason Star Trek did as well as it did.
As for ROTF, to this day i still don't see what all the complaining is about. I still feel the plot and script was great. As were Skids and Mud Flap.