ROTF claims "Most Movie Mistakes Award" of 2009

This one had me rolling my eyes.

Audio problem: The satellite Decepticon made robotic sounds when it was taking over the satellite, and in space there is no sound.

I mean yeah, it's true and all, but come, you can count the number of scenes in space where there actually is NO sound from every movie and tv show practically on two hands, maybe even one!

I feel like submitting this one.

Factual: Giant alien robots that can change their appearance don't actually exist!
(That we know of)

Honestly, some people have far too much time on their hands.

Burn wrote:This one had me rolling my eyes.

Audio problem: The satellite Decepticon made robotic sounds when it was taking over the satellite, and in space there is no sound.

I mean yeah, it's true and all, but come, you can count the number of scenes in space where there actually is NO sound from every movie and tv show practically on two hands, maybe even one!

I feel like submitting this one.

Factual: Giant alien robots that can change their appearance don't actually exist!
(That we know of)

Honestly, some people have far too much time on their hands.

I got a good one:

Factual: In the scene where Sam goes crazy writing symbols all over his dorm room (which I didn't see any beds in) he writes a green symbol on a poster for the film "Bad Boys 2". No one would ever have a poster of the film Bad Boys 2 in there room. Ever.

Some of these mistakes strike me more as nitpicking anything else.

Plot Hole: The Decepticons want to restore their supply of Energon by destroying the Earth's sun. The problem is, the resulting explosion (or supernova, or whatever), would almost instantly destroy the Earth and everything, including the Decepticons, on it.

That's assuming that the Solar Harvester works on the same principles and physics as Soran's trilithium rocket in Star Trek: Generations. Personally, I'd like to think that the Dynasty of Primes and their workers knew what they were doing when they designed that thing. In any case, Prime blows the thing up before it has a chance to fire anyway.

Has anyone seen the article with Megan Fox slamming Michael Bay, and him firing right back? I'm getting a really bad feeling from all this extra-curricular stuff going on with the movie. Sci-fi is bound to have a few plot holes as only Steven Hawking knows everything but the next movie really does need to be better- especially if Bay wants to wait til 2012 for it. Honestly, I don't know if Hasbro and Paramount are going to WANT to wait that long for the next one. I'm going to theorize that Bay will not be back for TF3. I think he's burning bridges right now. To claim that he started the career of Nicholas Cage, Martin Lawrence, Will Smith, etc., is just ridiculous.

Here is the article for anyone who wants to read it:
http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/us-maga ... x-bay.html

I have never had an issue with the designs or with his ideas for the bots as they have been a breath of fresh air in the toy line- very original and unique ideas utilizing what robots could do (yes, even wheel-feet which make sense to me as bipeds are a very inefficient method of movement). However, if he keeps sticking his foot in it Spielberg is going to see it and won't want anything to do with him.

Time error:

R2-D2 is in the scene where the "warp", which by the way is also impossible, EVERYONE knows that star wars took place a LONG time ago in a galaxy far far away.

First question, shouldn't that model be obsolete by now?
First observation, star wars never mentions anything about earth.

Come on people...

First-Aid wrote:Has anyone seen the article with Megan Fox slamming Michael Bay, and him firing right back? I'm getting a really bad feeling from all this extra-curricular stuff going on with the movie. Sci-fi is bound to have a few plot holes as only Steven Hawking knows everything but the next movie really does need to be better- especially if Bay wants to wait til 2012 for it. Honestly, I don't know if Hasbro and Paramount are going to WANT to wait that long for the next one. I'm going to theorize that Bay will not be back for TF3. I think he's burning bridges right now. To claim that he started the career of Nicholas Cage, Martin Lawrence, Will Smith, etc., is just ridiculous.

Nicholas Cage, almost certainly. Cage had a career before he work with Bay. As for Bay not being at the helm of TF3 - very possible.

I just browsed through that article.
However, i remembered clearly the scene where sam & mikaela were at the desert. Both of them were hunt by Decepticons. After starscream discovered them, they ran for their life. Constructicon scrapper was chasing them and throwing his weapon at them, with sam & mikaela jumped from a building to another (with explosion). That particular scene i can see Scrapper, when the camera changed to another angle, scrapper was gone.
I guess they forgot about scrapper when switched to 2nd camera during editing.

I hate the fact that the robots main stationary form seems to be their alt modes and parked... please...

Not a mistake, but c'mon, that bugs me more than almost anything about the two movies. It seems like the vehicles are just something for the humans to do.

No conversation even, they just sit there. They could at least have them chatting, and if we need to know which vehicle is talking they could make the lights flash or something. Too complicated? I think not.

The article certainly nitpicks. I mean when carrying the bag of sand, it changes hands in scenes? No way, you mean a person might change the hand he is holding something in? Never. I always carry the same article in the same hand for the entire time I am carrying it!!!!

I guess we can keep this topic as the official mistakes and plotholes discussion then?

Well, I've got a serious plothole. If they could revive Megatron with one allspark shard, even after 2 years at the bottom of the ocean and rebuilt with cannibalized plots, why couldn't Sam and Mikaela revive Prime with the shard they had? If you think about it, it would've completely changed the movie:
1. The Fallen would've halted his plans, knowing a Prime is still alive. he appeared to be bound in that chair, and suddenly released when Prime died. Or, he was being a coward, but either way he would've slowed down.
2. When they go looking for a translator and find Jetfire, how would they awaken him? Just bang on him and yell til he transforms?
3. Of course, if Prime is revived, Sam would most likely go to Optimus for translations, which could turn everything around, since Prime is kinda old himself.
4. The soldiers would've never went to Egypt, because they didn't need to drop off dead Prime.
5. The Fallen would've never broadcasted himself, making Sam not a fugitive.
6. They would've never found the tomb of the primes (unless Optimus has all that knowledge)
7. Would Megatron team up on Optimus again? Probably, then he'd kill him, then everything would happen like it did, except Sam has no shard for Jetfire, so they could never learn of the Matrix. Then, The Fallen could never acquire the Matrix.

Interesting, eh?

Some things they missed in mistakes:

repetitive footage: When Prime is talking to the bossy guy in glasses, there's a shot where the camera pans behind the man, showing him right in front of Optimus. Optimus just kinda moves around, but later, you see that exact same shot. Optimus moves the same, you just hear the guy saying different things (audio replacement).

There is also the first shot of Soundwave, where his eyes light up, he talks, and the camera pans around behind him. You see that same cgi later, exactly the same, he just says different stuff.

This may be just an opinion, but if Ironhide can "smell" Demolishor when he arrives, and Ratchet can read hormone levels, couldn't BB at least recognize Alice as a Decepticon when she's riding inside him? Why is BB so handicapped? no voice, no smell....

Also, Wheelie disappears after going into a pyramid. He walks in saying "we've got real work to do" or something, but is never seen again during the battle.

Here's some more for you: What was The Fallen doing during the thousand years Megs was frozen?

Why didn't the original Primes just kill The Fallen? There were at least six (I think Jetfire said 7) Optimus fused with Jetfire, but that only counts as 3 robot's power tops. They should've been able to do it easily.

How do the Primes talk to Sam in limbo (or whatever that place was) if in reality they're a tomb?

How did Demolishor get where he was without being noticed? Logically he would be huge and have a wheel foot in protoform mode, or you could say he landed there when he came, but don't you notice a new huge power shovel at your site? Don't forget Sideways was there, too.

Error: Megatron calls for the decepticons to come and commence attack, but how can they not come? Can they stop falling in midair as meteors to wait and listen for Megatron? Unless Megatron did some huge math problem and calculated when he could say that when they were about to fall, just to show his leadership, it's impossible for them to control that. You can't tell a meteor to wait to fall. Don't forget it had shown them entering the atmosphere before Megatron arrived in Egypt.

i think Bumblebee knew the girl was a pretender, hence why he mistreats her so much while she's inside him. like take that head butt for instance, with the force he slammed her to the dash, a normal person would be knocked out if not dead.

i did notice they re-used footage from the first movie a few times. i just noticed it 3 or 4 times and the only one that comes to mind right now is the shot of that "automated" jet flying over the sand dunes. its a shot from the Scorponok sequence in the first movie. and peaking of Scorponok, what's up with his tiny little cameo? he shows up and dies like 2mins after? poor guy. lol same for Blackout, he's in the 4-way fight in the forest but gets killed....like getting killed in the first movie wasn't bad enough. :p

oh and i gotta admit i'm surprised that with all the movie news and info i've been reading all over the internet, i never saw anyone mention that Frank Welker voiced Soundwave. i'd heard rumors he might be involved but i didnt know for sure until Soundwave spoke. its too bad they couldnt recreate the vocal effects from the show but he used his Dr. Claw voice and i recall reading an interview where he said thats the voice he used when recording the cartoon.

I hate articles like this that are just riding the wave of popularity of TF2. So according to this article no more movies are coming out this year that will have mistakes...great journalism right there!

GetterDragun wrote:I hate articles like this that are just riding the wave of popularity of TF2. So according to this article no more movies are coming out this year that will have mistakes...great journalism right there!

Actually this is a bunch of people pointing out discrepancies they see in the film, not just one person. But to say they stated no more movies are gonna make mistakes is wrong. But c'mon, this film was filled with emptiness, if that makes any sense.

The mistake people that write these kinds of articles make is seeming to think that movies take place in that little place called "Reality".
Hello!!! It's a movie and, naturally, isn't gona be real. As awsome as it would be for my car to turn into a twenty-foot tall killing machine and do battle with other killing machines, it isn't gona happen.
If we want to go by how many other movies out there just can't be real then lets just chuck out every movie ever done and get it over with.

The entire movie was one big mistake. But as for the ones on this list some of them are just retarded. How the hell did some of these get by in post? Some i can understand since it is a movie but others i can figure out how they happened other than laziness and idiocy.

Is anyone severely confused as to how the Constructicons Mixmaster, Scrapper and Longhaul are fighting in their individual robot modes at the same time that Devestator is combined?

Danamitron wrote:Is anyone severely confused as to how the Constructicons Mixmaster, Scrapper and Longhaul are fighting in their individual robot modes at the same time that Devestator is combined?

Well the real reason is so the 3d guys don't have to make new transformers, and so they can reuse the same models. You might also say that the vehicles that form Devastator aren't robots, but Devastator just spread apart. Because it never showed the actual vehicles that make Devastator transform into a robot and then combine, so it could just be there's more than one decepticon with mixmaster's vehicle mode, etc.

Ironically, their list of continuity errors has the same errors listed multiple times.

YRQRM0 wrote:I guess we can keep this topic as the official mistakes and plotholes discussion then?

Well, I've got a serious plothole. If they could revive Megatron with one allspark shard, even after 2 years at the bottom of the ocean and rebuilt with cannibalized plots, why couldn't Sam and Mikaela revive Prime with the shard they had?

I can think of a couple of reasons that they wouldn't have done that:

1) They didn't know that's how the Decepticons did it, therefore, they had no way of knowing that would have worked. For all they knew, using the fragment on Prime's lifeless body might have had the same horrific effect it had on the Witwicky's kitchen appliances!

2) Optimus died 'normally', at Megatron's hands. Megatron had the bulk of the Allspark, the font of Cybertronian life and creation, shoved into his chest causing him to overload (at a spiritual level???). He could have been in a coma, an ascended state, one with the Allspark, blah blah. Essentially, his 'dead' wasn't necessarily the same as Prime's 'dead'.

3) The Decepticons had fresh parts and a spark to repair Megatron (although I'd grant this is essentially the role Jetfire fulfilled when he sacced himself).

4) The Decepticons had Scalpel, who for all we know may be more proficient than Ratchet, if for no other reason than his evilness and german accent allowing him to explore the fringes of the arcane.

5) The Decepticons had a much bigger piece of the Allspark.

This may be just an opinion, but if Ironhide can "smell" Demolishor when he arrives, and Ratchet can read hormone levels, couldn't BB at least recognize Alice as a Decepticon when she's riding inside him? Why is BB so handicapped? no voice, no smell....

My wife and I debated why Bumblebee couldn't ID her at the time, though I was thinking of her energy-signature rather than her smell. My argument was that she was a dedicated infiltration/espionage model, and that would be pretty worthless if your primary enemies could identify you in your disguise. So I assume she had something to mask her Decepticon smell and a system for exuding synthetic B.O. Heck, maybe she went out at night and killed Coeds for their sweat.

Also, Wheelie disappears after going into a pyramid. He walks in saying "we've got real work to do" or something, but is never seen again during the battle.

That made me sad.

YRQRM0 wrote:How do the Primes talk to Sam in limbo (or whatever that place was) if in reality they're a tomb?

Same way Obi-Wan talks to Luke in ESB and ROTJ.

How did Demolishor get where he was without being noticed? Logically he would be huge and have a wheel foot in protoform mode, or you could say he landed there when he came, but don't you notice a new huge power shovel at your site? Don't forget Sideways was there, too.

Well, you could argue that he disposed of the original copy?

Also, the NEST team had to find out he was there somehow, maybe they were responding to his arrival (in other words, he was noticed)?

This was also a problem in TF1. Starscream seemed to just be sitting on an airforce base kicking back jet fuel until he got word from Barricade. An extra F-22 would probably be even hard to pull off than an extra power shovel, since the F-22 is probably fewer in number and has more paperwork attached.

Megatron calls for the decepticons to come and commence attack, but how can they not come? Can they stop falling in midair as meteors to wait and listen for Megatron? Unless Megatron did some huge math problem and calculated when he could say that when they were about to fall, just to show his leadership, it's impossible for them to control that. You can't tell a meteor to wait to fall.

I imagine the space-travel forms have some descent control (I think they mention in the comics for the first movie that they change direction, betraying them as extra-terrestrials).

Don't forget it had shown them entering the atmosphere before Megatron arrived in Egypt.

Did it show all of them? Or maybe just a first-strike team?

Danamitron wrote:Is anyone severely confused as to how the Constructicons Mixmaster, Scrapper and Longhaul are fighting in their individual robot modes at the same time that Devestator is combined?

TFWiki has two pretty good explanations.

1 - The Decepticons reuse body-types a lot, just like the Seekers in G1, and (I heard this mentioned somewhere else) Soundwave had scanned a small number of desirable alternate modes and passed them on to the large number of invading Decepticons as they arrived, resulting in repetition.

2 - Supreme class Devastator is actually movie accurate. If you stop to think about it, their is nothing in the movie to indicate that the individual components of Devastator are independent Constructicons, they go directly from vehicle-form to combined form. So Devastator would be one of the Constructicons rather than the merger of the Constructicons.

Its a damn shame when you have to go into in depth thinking, referencing other movies that have nothing to do with the film at hand, and placing a bunch of assumptions to make a movie make some sense.

A damn shame I tell you.

Yeah I agree.

People should have just sat back and enjoyed the movie instead of over-analysing it.

That makes sense when you consider that Demolisher gets destroyed by NEST in the beginning of the movie. Then Scavanger, which is the same alt mode, is then part of Devestator. But, then they should have named the deluxe and voyager toy characters different names to full circle the situation. I think that Bay and the script writers simply did a poor job of working with the characters. All they had to do is have all of the scenes of the individual robots prior to the combination of Devestator. Then things would have made more sense. Maybe they were trying to be Pulp Fictionesk.

First Gen wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:I hate articles like this that are just riding the wave of popularity of TF2. So according to this article no more movies are coming out this year that will have mistakes...great journalism right there!

Actually this is a bunch of people pointing out discrepancies they see in the film, not just one person. But to say they stated no more movies are gonna make mistakes is wrong. But c'mon, this film was filled with emptiness, if that makes any sense.

Then don't phrase it as "ROTF claims "Most Movie Mistakes Award" of 2009".

YRQRM0 wrote:I guess we can keep this topic as the official mistakes and plotholes discussion then?

Well, I've got a serious plothole. If they could revive Megatron with one allspark shard, even after 2 years at the bottom of the ocean and rebuilt with cannibalized plots, why couldn't Sam and Mikaela revive Prime with the shard they had? If you think about it, it would've completely changed the movie:

Because A.) They weren't at the bottom of the ocean to know it could do that and B.) They eventually used it on JetFire after being told by Wheelie to do it.

can honestly say from being a background extra on 3 films that sometimes mistakes like carrying a bucket in one hand then magically switch to another are going to happen.

It is IMPOSSIBLE To duplicate each scene exactly per each take.

IE: In the looting of the federal bank scene in the upcoming movie Jonah Hex we tried to duplicate the same steps for each take that we shot. Some scenes we took 8 or 9 takes per shot and I can guarantee that things will be close but not exact.

Movies are not an "exact science", they are entertainment.

This is science fiction people !! PLEASE , STOP ALL THIS NONSENSE

Here is the answer to

Posted by YRQRM0 on July 3rd, 2009 @ 11:22am CDT
I guess we can keep this topic as the official mistakes and plotholes discussion then?

Well, I've got a serious plothole. If they could revive Megatron with one allspark shard, even after 2 years at the bottom of the ocean and rebuilt with cannibalized plots, why couldn't Sam and Mikaela revive Prime with the shard they had? If you think about it, it would've completely changed the movie

A) If you look closely at the movie Megatron n Starscream is chasing Sam , even if Sam has the piece of the allspark , He wouldnt run to Optimus in the middle of chasing , Bumblebee take him to other place far away than Prime , So how can Sam go to Optimus while thousand people looking for him , Its like giving yourself to Decepticon .
If he did go to Optimus to revive him , He cannot defeat the fallen casue The fallen is stronger than him ...

Posted by YRQRM0 on July 3rd, 2009 @ 11:44am CDT

How do the Primes talk to Sam in limbo (or whatever that place was) if in reality they're a tomb?


A) Sam hold the piece of the Matrix of Leadership , so all Prime spark was inside it like in G1 , Sam meets the other prime Like in the G1 where Optimus go inside the matrix looking for answer .

AND FOR THE LAST TIME , THIS IS MOVIE , FOR ENTERTAIMENT , NOT A STUDY OR ANYTHING , IF SOMETHING BUGGING YOU SO MUCH ABOUT THE PLOT OR CHARACTER , THINK AND IMAGINE ON YOUR MIND WHATS WRONG AND WHATS RIGHT (Thats why it called entertaiment and fiction , Cause it never be reality ) !!!!

PS : I HATE MICHEAL BAY DIRECT THIS SEQUEL OR ANOTHER ONE , CAUSE HE NEVER DID RESEARCH ON THE OLD INCARNATION (G1)

My question is..... what was the deal with rampages color in his dozer form? On the ship he was red, robot mode hes red, but when he "spit" Sams parents outa his engine compartment he was glowing red with yellow parts.

You got it. Entertainment is entertainment. That is all it is. Also, this movie was based on totally fantastical sci-fi ideas, so who cares what mistakes there are anyway. Hell, Nat Geo makes mistakes too for god sakes.

Cyber Bishop wrote:can honestly say from being a background extra on 3 films that sometimes mistakes like carrying a bucket in one hand then magically switch to another are going to happen.

It is IMPOSSIBLE To duplicate each scene exactly per each take.

IE: In the looting of the federal bank scene in the upcoming movie Jonah Hex we tried to duplicate the same steps for each take that we shot. Some scenes we took 8 or 9 takes per shot and I can guarantee that things will be close but not exact.

Movies are not an "exact science", they are entertainment.

Well said. I can't believe how specific some people are, like with the Predator drones, one had a prop and one had a jet. I mean come on! The military gave actual footage to use and people are going to nitpick that the clips they made didn't match for a few second of film time.

People who sit around all day trying to find the smallest mistakes are pretty sad and should get a life. They are also being a bit too harsh. On the subject of reusing footage, yes I noticed it but there is a very good reason for it, money. By using footage more than once, especially if it features CGI footage, you can save money and use it for another scene.

One of the things people asked for in the sequel was more robots. Robots cost money and Bay didn't have unlimited cash for this movie, he had a budget. If you want more robots then something has to be sacrificed.

Oh, and Artoo Deetoo has been flying around Earth ever since he was brought to the planet by the aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

almost all of the mistakes are too small to notice unless you look for them i was expecting something big like optimus being green or something

if most action movies were held up to this extreme scrutiny -they wouldn't fare well

I agree with the consensus that it is fiction, but of course critics and the like are going to continue picking it apart at every opportunity to bring attention onto themselves. However, some of the mistakes in the film are legit and hopefully can be addressed before the DVD release. Character colors, guide wires, that kind of thing. Some of the screwups did interfere with the moviegoing experience for me though, so maybe Michael Bay and Co. can do something about some of them. MB said himself that the project was a rush job and he wanted more time. So, I suspended disbelief further to enjoy the film for what it is. A popcorn Summer action blow stuff up movie.

-JT

I didn't even bother looking at the list since it is no doubt compiled by folks who don't even know 1/100th of what they think the know about Transformers. We shouldn't even be giving these people any attention at all.

Trikeboy wrote:People who sit around all day trying to find the smallest mistakes are pretty sad and should get a life. They are also being a bit too harsh. On the subject of reusing footage, yes I noticed it but there is a very good reason for it, money. By using footage more than once, especially if it features CGI footage, you can save money and use it for another scene.

One of the things people asked for in the sequel was more robots. Robots cost money and Bay didn't have unlimited cash for this movie, he had a budget. If you want more robots then something has to be sacrificed.

Oh, and Artoo Deetoo has been flying around Earth ever since he was brought to the planet by the aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

What to sacrifice? Hum.....how about the robots which didn't seem to serve any purpose or just looked ugly design wise:

Twins...I'm willing to sacrifice those.

The Hatchlings which grew without the extra energon source of the sun which seemed to be one of the points of this whole film. Starscream notes the hatchlings wil continue to die without more energon, and yet they are fine and full grown come time to fight in Egypt.

Also, being the Fallen notes that the energy wasn't destroyed but transformed into Sams being....wouldn't they just need Sam? Being the cube itself seemed to be flourishing and supporting the Cybertronian race for thousands of years without the power of the sun. If the energy wasn't destroyed....why would you still need the sun or rather our sun to harvest?

No, I would aruge there were more then enough new robot designs which DID deserve screen time but instead were replaced with moot comic relief via the twins or hordes of baby grown up hatchlings or revived bad guys. I mean seriously, of the newer designs you had:

Sideways
Jolt
Sideswipe
Arcee triplets 3
Soundwave
The Constructicons 6
Devistator (I'm counting him as a separate bot)

.....that seems like more then enough newer designs. Roughly 14! Not counting the already founded cast. With money already spent designing and modeling them and rendering them....not to count the revived bad guys (Bonecrusher, Blackout) which were modeled and designed since the first film...so no money lost there. And yet "MORE" money was spent on those useless hatchlings or the Twins or even Wheelie...I could have done without wheelie if it meant Soundwave coming down from orbit.

As for the plot holes, I didn't read it, but I don't need to. I have my own list of plotholes already posted somewhere here admist the threads. And it suits me just fine. And yes, calling a movie out on it's flaws is fair for me. Even if it's a action summer blockbuster. Hulk had a better storyline. Iron Man had a fine story line. The first Transformers, even with it's already existing plot holes, had a better story line. Action movies with story lines are what I expects with people like Bay and Spielberg helming. The Rock had a storyline! Bad boys 2 had a more substantial story line! ET!!!!

If people are calling this movie terrible because of it's bad story, I find that a just reason. And I don't know why people would defend a story which doesn't make sense. If it's for fear of a 3rd film not being produced, believe me it's going to happen. With or without Bay and with or without people loving or hating it.

But don't make excuses for a films bad points. For me, the films large plot "WELLS" didn't spoil it for me, though it didn't help either. It was the ugly designs and the lack of screen time of other designs I would have preferred to see. More Sideways and even sideswipe. More Soundwave. JOLT!!!! Hell bring back Barricade or even Brawl! The Fallen transforming. A transformer TRANSFORMING!

Again I support those calling the movies bad points out. Be it design or story. Or both. A good story from people and production houses of this calibur is not a outrageous thing to ask for, or even demand.

The only thing I demand of the 3rd fim is if you have a combiner, have it combine with other transformer. Not cloned vehicle modes. Be it Bruticus or Menasor or the Predaking.

Laters,
Josh

While I agree we shouldn't be overanalizing like this, I found one I wanna at least ask about.

In the scene when Simmons, the ex-Sector 7 agent, shows Sam, his roommate, and Mikaela his alien archives, Simmons stops Sam's roommate from touching the jar containing Frenzy's head (because it was "still radioactive"). In the first Transformers movie, Frenzy's head was cut in half (by his own buzzsaw), but now it is intact.

I could very well remember this wrong (as it's been a while since I've seen the first one), but I really don't remember Frenzy's head being cut in half. I remember the time where it was his own buzzsaw (in S7 HQ inside Hoover Dam) as just a second beheading... Again, I might just remember it wrong.

I know Frenzy's head was intact in ROTF, but I wouldn't mind seeing the first again anyway, so I might pay attention to that part.

Joshua Vallse wrote:Also, being the Fallen notes that the energy wasn't destroyed but transformed into Sams being....wouldn't they just need Sam? Being the cube itself seemed to be flourishing and supporting the Cybertronian race for thousands of years without the power of the sun. If the energy wasn't destroyed....why would you still need the sun or rather our sun to harvest?

No...it was the knowledge the cube had that they needed. The Fallen knew where his sun-destroying machine was: it's where the other Primes (and subsequently the Matrix of Leadership) were entombed that he needed to know, because he couldn't work the machine without the Matrix.

That's how I remember it, anyway.

ShGarland_1383 wrote:While I agree we shouldn't be overanalizing like this, I found one I wanna at least ask about.

In the scene when Simmons, the ex-Sector 7 agent, shows Sam, his roommate, and Mikaela his alien archives, Simmons stops Sam's roommate from touching the jar containing Frenzy's head (because it was "still radioactive"). In the first Transformers movie, Frenzy's head was cut in half (by his own buzzsaw), but now it is intact.

I could very well remember this wrong (as it's been a while since I've seen the first one), but I really don't remember Frenzy's head being cut in half. I remember the time where it was his own buzzsaw (in S7 HQ inside Hoover Dam) as just a second beheading... Again, I might just remember it wrong.

I know Frenzy's head was intact in ROTF, but I wouldn't mind seeing the first again anyway, so I might pay attention to that part.

Joshua Vallse wrote:Also, being the Fallen notes that the energy wasn't destroyed but transformed into Sams being....wouldn't they just need Sam? Being the cube itself seemed to be flourishing and supporting the Cybertronian race for thousands of years without the power of the sun. If the energy wasn't destroyed....why would you still need the sun or rather our sun to harvest?

No...it was the knowledge the cube had that they needed. The Fallen knew where his sun-destroying machine was: it's where the other Primes (and subsequently the Matrix of Leadership) were entombed that he needed to know, because he couldn't work the machine without the Matrix.

That's how I remember it, anyway.

In reference to Frenzy's head, it wasn't cut in half, but it wasn't cut completely off....I think it left one eye and a partial vocal box for him to say, "Oh S%&t". However I can let that one slide.

That knowledge thing I do remember. However the Fallen does state that the cube, not just it's information, can't be destroyed but transformed. So if it wasn't completely transformed into Sam, where did all that energy go?

And being a majority of the cube energy was absorbed into Megatrons spark overloading him and killing him....then reactivating him? Wouldn't he be operational with a surplus of cube energy and more of the Archives once he recieved his upgrades and his jumpstart from the bottom of the ocean?

However I degress, I can pick this thing apart to death really, and I'm not well versed in the mythos. I just like movies and well......stories. And this one issue isn't even the most outstanding for me. However if anything, all of these questions only testify to the Movies failure to explain them or make sense of them admist the eye candy. However here is the list I left in another thread if anyone wants to take a crack at it......

From previous post:

And there are tons of plot holes here, anyone saying there isnt should really examine the following evidence:

Death was relative in the movie. Most dead robots from the first film and even during this film came back.....with no explanation, they were just back. Bonecrusher was back. Blackout was back. Even a few of the Constructicons came back. I forgot which one was destroyed whilst diving for Megs, but sure enough he was back come time to throw down in Egypt. So when Prime died....I really wasn't too worried. Hell I was expecting Jazz to come back as well at one point.

The energon sliver giving Sam the location of the Matrix, or rather the location of someone who could read the glyphs to tell him where the matrix was....or didn't know where it was but knew a poem to give him a hint, or....hell just forget it. While Megatron had a giant chunk of of it jammed into his chest to revive him.....but was clueless...but even if he knew I don't think it would have helped.

This next one is a catch 22. Pending on what you want to believe. Devastator was not the Constructicons. Or rather, he was made of of the same scanned vehicles, but he wasn't made up of the actual bots. Which for me was the biggest let down. But if you want to argue he was made up of the Constructicons....then they too defied death in which humans coming back form being blown to bits wouldn't be too far fetched in the third film....wait, wait, Sam did that didn't he? Well there you go.

The Decepticon Army of hatchlings keep dying from a lack of energon but as soon as Prime Dies, Fallen reigns down hell on a few destroyers with the hatchlings all grown up, to harvest the sun for more energon to raise his army of.....hatchlings? Aw hell I did it again.

:End previous post.

And if there are explanations for all this chaos out there consisting of more analyzation and such, for me that just makes the point of bringing subjects such as hatchlings and energon sources and all this stuff moot. Because if it's not communicated clearly via the film, I don't see a reason why to include it. It's kind of like the latter two Matrix films.....there was TONS of things not clearly communicated or was exclusive to people playing online games or reading fan fics or tons of other stories and such....which for me is more then too much work to do for any film starring Mr. Reeves. Hence why I still think the later two films fall short of the original. Hence one of the reasons I think this film falls short of the original Transformers. But I'll reserve judgment till the above plot wells are addressed.

BTW, I am a fan of the first film. Huge fan in fact, and I really really really wanted to like this film....which I did in some aspects....so I'm not posting this to bash or fan flames. I'm just kind of sad really this film didn't deliver on core things like story and design. *sigh*

BTW, thanks ShGarland_1383 for addressing one of these plot holes and hi as well.