Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys
Saturday, September 17th, 2016 9:25AM CDT
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Every two weeks, Seibertron.com brings you a Top 5 list related to all things Transformers written by me, your fellow editor. These are my opinions (just like movie or game reviews hosted by sites are still just the opinion of one person) so what matters most is what you guys think of the topic or list, and I hope to see your own lists or comments on omissions and ranking. Let's have fun! All previous lists can be found here.
Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys
We now live in a world of heavy mold reuse where at the very planning of an entire line, designers look at how they can make the most of a design and reuse elements to the point where we now even Hasbro has switched from using the word "retool" to "pretool". It sometimes brings about a negative connotation since toys may not feel as unique, even though the output of new molds remains constant. So in light of this, I would like to look back at some amazing retools we have gotten in the past showing how amazing toys have been the product of retools.
5. Transformers Adventure TAV30 Battle Grimlock
This is a perfect example of a well realized extensive retool that I would be more than happy to drop money on (and even import, in this case). Let's get one thing straight first, that initial Fall of Cybertron Grimlock mold was not great. This retool ameliorates it by reapropriating it as the definitive Grimlock for one's Robots in Disguise collection. While the paint scheme is definitely different, the mold itself is mostly completely new, changing the initial mold while keeping all the tabbing and transformation intact. Just look at the tail in this shot below:
There are of course totally new parts like the Dinosaur head, which really make him different looking in dino mode, but that is impressive is how they retooled the original mold to have spikes all throughout to merge the completely new parts with those that were retooled, making him seem like a totally different toy. Not only a different toy, but a toy that was made for this line, and that is the biggest credit I could give to this toy. It doesn't look out of place, and is instead more than welcome in the line up even though the base toy has nothing to do with this line or aesthetic.
4. Transformers Prime Beast Hunters Ultra Magnus and the Cyberverse version
This one is best explained through pictures. These toys will always amaze me for the simple reason that there were two main Ultra Magnus designs in the Prime toyline at two different scales (Voyager and Commander). In each scale, one mold was an original mold (YAY!) and one was an Optimus retool (Boo!). And yet, in both cases, the Optimus retool surpassed the original mold, both in complexity, G1 homage, toon accuracy and poseability. It was this toy that made me rethink my entire philosophy on retools and where they have a place. Below you will find Ultra Magnus next to the original mold in both alt mode and robot mode as well as the retool next to the original mold just to show you how significant it was.
3. Classics Conehead Seekers
These are by far the best rendition of the coneheads in terms of show accuracy, both in looks and when it comes to replicating how they transformed on the show, and it's handled in such a smart way as a retool of the classics seeker mold. The original mold was very good but it had that extra nosecone kibble in the back of the head which looked off. The conehead retool reworks that entire nosecone area to make the nosecone actually be the top of the robot's head ala G1 but with way better proportions. This is a feat even the MP couldn't pull off, relying on the illusion of a nosecone head leaving the actual nosecone in the back. What is awesome about this retool is that by reworking that nosecone area, there is no more extraneous kibble. It ends up being a perfect robot mode and a perfect rendition of the G1 chracters with no fake parts.
Transformers Henkei Dirge Gallery
Transformers Classics Ramjet Gallery
Transformers Henkei Thrust Gallery
2. Killer Punch
The original mold was pretty cool in an odd kind of way with the very kibble heavy bot mode and third mode which consisted of a dead Triceratops. Killer punch takes it up an extra step. A triceratops head for a hand is pretty cool, but you know what's cooler? Being able to fire it into a bot's face! Yeah, Takara retooled the mold so that the triceratops head could actually be spring launched from the robot's arm. They also took the opportunity of this remold to change the Dinosaur's head to give us a Styracosaurus instead, making the mold even more original, along with giving us a better hand weapon in the form of a big curved blade hidden as his tail.
1. Transformers Generations Sandstorm
I feel this is the last great hurrah for what we knew as retools, meaning a mold based on another one with modifications, and the start of something new with toys toys based on another coming out quickly showing a certain amount of planning. I say this because after this toy, the idea of a retool, as we know it changed. Hasbro brought in pretools like the Combiner Wars line which was all designed at the same time, regardless of when toys got released, and that was followed by trend of reusing parts or egineering amongst different toys. In this case though, I feel confident calling this a retool, and a beautiful one at that, since it is clear what the basis for Springer was as opposed to Sandstorm. Springer's look comes right from Nick Roche's last stand of the Wreckers and both his alt modes are modernized versions of what they were in G1. Sandstorm though feels more in line with the Neo G1 look of the Universe line with his alt modes being more homages to the ones he had in the past, springboarding off the Springer design and making the most of it. What is fascinating is that amongst the differently shaped parts are totally new parts that change the transformation. As with TAV Battle Grimlock above, it is such a miraculous moment when you transform a toy that is said to be a retool and you discover something new. The reason this guy gets the top spot is because not only is the retooling extensive, but it brings in fixes to the mold. It tabs in together better and I am really impressed at how he can still stand with all that back kibble, which adds to his striking and dynamic look. It's just amazing to have a retool that feels like having a new toy that kicks ass all on his own.
Honourable Mentions: I am using this spot for something that we wouldnt think of right away but that really needs to be mentioned: Masterpiece Starscream. The reason he wasn't obvious to me is because usually a retool means a different version of the character or more likely a different character all together. In Starscream's case, the retool doesnt change anything about his identity or personality, it just makes the toy more G1 accurate and overall better (at least in theory). At first it might seem like the big difference is how the long pieces of jet kibble are integrated into his legs rather than be left hanging there, or that he now has heels that pop out of flaps, but there is more. In truth there are more changed parts than unchanged parts in this figure and the retool becomes one of the more extensive retools in Transformers history. But since the situation is different from the rest of the characters on this list, I preffered mentionning him here (I wouldn't have known where to place him, how about you?). Just look at the undercarriage a bit to see that almost every facet is different. And in robot mode, it is literally from head to toe.
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream Gallery
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery
Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys
We now live in a world of heavy mold reuse where at the very planning of an entire line, designers look at how they can make the most of a design and reuse elements to the point where we now even Hasbro has switched from using the word "retool" to "pretool". It sometimes brings about a negative connotation since toys may not feel as unique, even though the output of new molds remains constant. So in light of this, I would like to look back at some amazing retools we have gotten in the past showing how amazing toys have been the product of retools.
5. Transformers Adventure TAV30 Battle Grimlock
This is a perfect example of a well realized extensive retool that I would be more than happy to drop money on (and even import, in this case). Let's get one thing straight first, that initial Fall of Cybertron Grimlock mold was not great. This retool ameliorates it by reapropriating it as the definitive Grimlock for one's Robots in Disguise collection. While the paint scheme is definitely different, the mold itself is mostly completely new, changing the initial mold while keeping all the tabbing and transformation intact. Just look at the tail in this shot below:
There are of course totally new parts like the Dinosaur head, which really make him different looking in dino mode, but that is impressive is how they retooled the original mold to have spikes all throughout to merge the completely new parts with those that were retooled, making him seem like a totally different toy. Not only a different toy, but a toy that was made for this line, and that is the biggest credit I could give to this toy. It doesn't look out of place, and is instead more than welcome in the line up even though the base toy has nothing to do with this line or aesthetic.
4. Transformers Prime Beast Hunters Ultra Magnus and the Cyberverse version
This one is best explained through pictures. These toys will always amaze me for the simple reason that there were two main Ultra Magnus designs in the Prime toyline at two different scales (Voyager and Commander). In each scale, one mold was an original mold (YAY!) and one was an Optimus retool (Boo!). And yet, in both cases, the Optimus retool surpassed the original mold, both in complexity, G1 homage, toon accuracy and poseability. It was this toy that made me rethink my entire philosophy on retools and where they have a place. Below you will find Ultra Magnus next to the original mold in both alt mode and robot mode as well as the retool next to the original mold just to show you how significant it was.
3. Classics Conehead Seekers
These are by far the best rendition of the coneheads in terms of show accuracy, both in looks and when it comes to replicating how they transformed on the show, and it's handled in such a smart way as a retool of the classics seeker mold. The original mold was very good but it had that extra nosecone kibble in the back of the head which looked off. The conehead retool reworks that entire nosecone area to make the nosecone actually be the top of the robot's head ala G1 but with way better proportions. This is a feat even the MP couldn't pull off, relying on the illusion of a nosecone head leaving the actual nosecone in the back. What is awesome about this retool is that by reworking that nosecone area, there is no more extraneous kibble. It ends up being a perfect robot mode and a perfect rendition of the G1 chracters with no fake parts.
Transformers Henkei Dirge Gallery
Transformers Classics Ramjet Gallery
Transformers Henkei Thrust Gallery
2. Killer Punch
The original mold was pretty cool in an odd kind of way with the very kibble heavy bot mode and third mode which consisted of a dead Triceratops. Killer punch takes it up an extra step. A triceratops head for a hand is pretty cool, but you know what's cooler? Being able to fire it into a bot's face! Yeah, Takara retooled the mold so that the triceratops head could actually be spring launched from the robot's arm. They also took the opportunity of this remold to change the Dinosaur's head to give us a Styracosaurus instead, making the mold even more original, along with giving us a better hand weapon in the form of a big curved blade hidden as his tail.
1. Transformers Generations Sandstorm
I feel this is the last great hurrah for what we knew as retools, meaning a mold based on another one with modifications, and the start of something new with toys toys based on another coming out quickly showing a certain amount of planning. I say this because after this toy, the idea of a retool, as we know it changed. Hasbro brought in pretools like the Combiner Wars line which was all designed at the same time, regardless of when toys got released, and that was followed by trend of reusing parts or egineering amongst different toys. In this case though, I feel confident calling this a retool, and a beautiful one at that, since it is clear what the basis for Springer was as opposed to Sandstorm. Springer's look comes right from Nick Roche's last stand of the Wreckers and both his alt modes are modernized versions of what they were in G1. Sandstorm though feels more in line with the Neo G1 look of the Universe line with his alt modes being more homages to the ones he had in the past, springboarding off the Springer design and making the most of it. What is fascinating is that amongst the differently shaped parts are totally new parts that change the transformation. As with TAV Battle Grimlock above, it is such a miraculous moment when you transform a toy that is said to be a retool and you discover something new. The reason this guy gets the top spot is because not only is the retooling extensive, but it brings in fixes to the mold. It tabs in together better and I am really impressed at how he can still stand with all that back kibble, which adds to his striking and dynamic look. It's just amazing to have a retool that feels like having a new toy that kicks ass all on his own.
Honourable Mentions: I am using this spot for something that we wouldnt think of right away but that really needs to be mentioned: Masterpiece Starscream. The reason he wasn't obvious to me is because usually a retool means a different version of the character or more likely a different character all together. In Starscream's case, the retool doesnt change anything about his identity or personality, it just makes the toy more G1 accurate and overall better (at least in theory). At first it might seem like the big difference is how the long pieces of jet kibble are integrated into his legs rather than be left hanging there, or that he now has heels that pop out of flaps, but there is more. In truth there are more changed parts than unchanged parts in this figure and the retool becomes one of the more extensive retools in Transformers history. But since the situation is different from the rest of the characters on this list, I preffered mentionning him here (I wouldn't have known where to place him, how about you?). Just look at the undercarriage a bit to see that almost every facet is different. And in robot mode, it is literally from head to toe.
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream Gallery
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery
Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-11) Gallery
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Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825664)
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:44am CDT
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:44am CDT
While I'm not sure it deserves a spot on the list, I've said it before and I've said it again; Hot Spot to Onslaught is really amazing. While the robot modes are probably the weakest part of the retool - only in that there's not much different, that robot mode is still beautiful on both of them - the identity of the vehicle mode is completely changed and in torso mode you wouldn't be able to tell the two were the same mold if it weren't for the thighs. The ladder transformation was genius enough, but a retool to this extent in addition to that just shows off how clever the designers can be.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825668)
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:01am CDT
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:01am CDT
Sandstorm is probably my favorite figure so it's nice to see him sitting pretty at the top. Such a good figure.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825673)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:14am CDT
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:14am CDT
The back kibble on Sandstorm killed it for me and I've sold him a lil while ago. He's a good figure and I like how they gave him different looking modes and parts but there's just too much bulk on the back which ruins the tidiness I love so much about the Springer figure and I couldn't find a way of positioning those huge wheels anywhere on the back that I felt happy with and so I got sick of him and sold him. I still respect the effort they put into making it distinctive from the original mold but yeah it wasn't for me.
I didn't much care for the FoC Grimlock until I got the Iron Factory parts that fill in the missing dino chest and provide him with his distinctive robot mode 'wings' and now it's become pretty much my definitive G1 Grimmy for the meantime (the dino head still sucks but eh I tend to have him in robot mode most of the time, the opposite of that horrible cartoon season 3 characterization) I have the more G1-coloured version from the AoE two pack and it does the trick fine.
Looking forward to Takara's retooled version of Powermaster Prime itself an extensive retool of Ultra Magnus.
I didn't much care for the FoC Grimlock until I got the Iron Factory parts that fill in the missing dino chest and provide him with his distinctive robot mode 'wings' and now it's become pretty much my definitive G1 Grimmy for the meantime (the dino head still sucks but eh I tend to have him in robot mode most of the time, the opposite of that horrible cartoon season 3 characterization) I have the more G1-coloured version from the AoE two pack and it does the trick fine.
Looking forward to Takara's retooled version of Powermaster Prime itself an extensive retool of Ultra Magnus.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825675)
Posted by Evil Eye on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:15am CDT
Posted by Evil Eye on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:15am CDT
Nice list! Killer Punch/Guiledart is a mold I really want one day, along with most of the dinosaur Predacons.
I'd like to throw the Beast Wars II "Cyborg" remolds (Hellscream, Max B, Thrustor and Dirgegun) into consideration; Max B and Thrustor made otherwise mediocre molds awesome, Dirgegun and Hellscream made awesome molds even more awesome, and all four are absolutely metal. Dirgegun is probably my favourite and I wish he weren't so expensive on the aftermarket. Another one I'd like to mention is MP Road Rage, for somehow taking Tracks and making the mold into a convincing fembot. I know the mold has its flaws but it's impressive from a retooling standpoint for sure.
In terms of less extensive retools I think Slipstream and Nightbird are both exceptionally good for how little was actually altered on the molds, and Sideswipe/Sunstreaker from the Universe line, who aside from the head are the same mold but look completely different with a simple transformation twist.
I'd like to throw the Beast Wars II "Cyborg" remolds (Hellscream, Max B, Thrustor and Dirgegun) into consideration; Max B and Thrustor made otherwise mediocre molds awesome, Dirgegun and Hellscream made awesome molds even more awesome, and all four are absolutely metal. Dirgegun is probably my favourite and I wish he weren't so expensive on the aftermarket. Another one I'd like to mention is MP Road Rage, for somehow taking Tracks and making the mold into a convincing fembot. I know the mold has its flaws but it's impressive from a retooling standpoint for sure.
In terms of less extensive retools I think Slipstream and Nightbird are both exceptionally good for how little was actually altered on the molds, and Sideswipe/Sunstreaker from the Universe line, who aside from the head are the same mold but look completely different with a simple transformation twist.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825682)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:35am CDT
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:35am CDT
With MP Starscream it's worth mentioning that the first version is actually the retool while the second version has a lot of the original prototype in it.
http://fantofan.jp/news/mag/figureking/fk100-3.jpg
http://fantofan.jp/news/mag/figureking/fk100-3.jpg
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825683)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:36am CDT
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:36am CDT
#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list. I would have put Titant Return Power Master Optimus Prime, Hasbro version. It's one of the craziest and most extensive retool ever from Combiner Wars Ultra Magbus. So different, even the transformation change!
Maybe because the article was written months in advance and you didn't think about editing it?
Maybe because the article was written months in advance and you didn't think about editing it?
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825685)
Posted by SureShot18 on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:42am CDT
Posted by SureShot18 on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:42am CDT
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825690)
Posted by Terrsolpix on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:09am CDT
Posted by Terrsolpix on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:09am CDT
Alpha Bravo to Blades is by far the best, most extensive retool I've ever seen. Jokes aside I think UW Blastoff to UW Strafe is one of the best retools, hands down. Never experienced UW Bruticus because he wears Blastoff's ripped off wings as armor his torso just looks off for some reason and I don't have $160 to spend on a marginal better figure
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825693)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:20am CDT
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:20am CDT
I for one really liked the FoC Grimlock mold, just saying 
Overall, good list, but I'd say some of the retools in Titans Return are worthy of mention, or at least will be. PM Prime was a great one, and Blurr/Brainstorm is also a good looking one.
Another one I will bring up is Rook to Swindle and Rook to Nosecone. Those are amazing retools on a great figure
Overall, good list, but I'd say some of the retools in Titans Return are worthy of mention, or at least will be. PM Prime was a great one, and Blurr/Brainstorm is also a good looking one.
Another one I will bring up is Rook to Swindle and Rook to Nosecone. Those are amazing retools on a great figure
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825695)
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:35am CDT
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:35am CDT
I love the rook mold but I have no idea why people swoon over the nosecone version. All they did was take off the top and replace wheels with treads which isn't impressive since the wheels just clipped on to begin with. It's a good figure don't get me wrong but I don't think it warrants all the praise it gets.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825697)
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:40am CDT
Drill.
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:40am CDT
steals_your_goats wrote:I love the rook mold but I have no idea why people swoon over the nosecone version. All they did was take off the top and replace wheels with treads which isn't impressive since the wheels just clipped on to begin with. It's a good figure don't get me wrong but I don't think it warrants all the praise it gets.
Drill.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825699)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:43am CDT
But that's one reason it's such a good retool: it's so simple. They literally changed only about 4 parts on it or something but it looks completely different, and that is cool and a reason why I love it.
And drill
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:43am CDT
steals_your_goats wrote:I love the rook mold but I have no idea why people swoon over the nosecone version. All they did was take off the top and replace wheels with treads which isn't impressive since the wheels just clipped on to begin with. It's a good figure don't get me wrong but I don't think it warrants all the praise it gets.
But that's one reason it's such a good retool: it's so simple. They literally changed only about 4 parts on it or something but it looks completely different, and that is cool and a reason why I love it.
And drill
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825700)
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:44am CDT
Yeah it's cool and all but it doesn't instantly make it a more than minimal effort retool. I honestly think that if Hasbro released this version from the start there wouldn't be nearly as much praise for it.
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:44am CDT
Kurona wrote:steals_your_goats wrote:I love the rook mold but I have no idea why people swoon over the nosecone version. All they did was take off the top and replace wheels with treads which isn't impressive since the wheels just clipped on to begin with. It's a good figure don't get me wrong but I don't think it warrants all the praise it gets.
Drill.
Yeah it's cool and all but it doesn't instantly make it a more than minimal effort retool. I honestly think that if Hasbro released this version from the start there wouldn't be nearly as much praise for it.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825729)
Posted by Davie L Arts on September 17th, 2016 @ 12:40pm CDT
Posted by Davie L Arts on September 17th, 2016 @ 12:40pm CDT
I think universe 2.0 sunstreaker and sideswipe deserve a mention. Even though it wasn't a very extensive retool (only swapping the hands and a new head. It's very clever how they made it so they could be the same mold but still have sunny retain his canopy chest. It even gives him a slimmer look that sideswipe, which I like.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825749)
Posted by Andrius on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:02pm CDT
Posted by Andrius on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:02pm CDT
I can't believe this was used as a teaser image yet not included high on the list:
Transformers Prime Beast Hunters Sharkticon Megatron Gallery
It's such a beautiful retool.
Transformers Prime Beast Hunters Sharkticon Megatron Gallery
It's such a beautiful retool.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825753)
Posted by Andrius on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:09pm CDT
Posted by Andrius on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:09pm CDT
I'm also particularly fond of the Dark Energon line. I'm not sure if they can be counted as true retools, since the modes are generally the same, but I'm willing to give a pass based on all the translucent bits. (Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Bumblebee Gallery
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Optimus Prime Gallery
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Knock Out Gallery
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Bumblebee Gallery
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Optimus Prime Gallery
Transformers Prime: Robots In Disguise Dark Energon Knock Out Gallery
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825757)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:14pm CDT
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:14pm CDT
Oh, thank you for reminding me of the Beast Hunters line! Wheeljack and Ratchet are awesome retools that I love to death
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825763)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:22pm CDT
Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.
Still, they DID some sick retools here from the RID Prime deluxes to the RID Beast Hunters.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:22pm CDT
Andrius wrote:I'm also particularly fond of the Dark Energon line. I'm not sure if they can be counted as true retools, since the modes are generally the same, but I'm willing to give a pass based on all the translucent bits. (Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)
Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.
Still, they DID some sick retools here from the RID Prime deluxes to the RID Beast Hunters.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825769)
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:44pm CDT
Or maybe because I dont think it's a great toy. I dont feel it improves on the original mold at all and instead feels like a cheap way to remake Powermaster Prime, similarly to how I feel about Fort Max.
But dont those examples get us into the Pre-tool vs Re-tool debate? Is it fair to judge one against the other when it was planned all along for the molds to be shared? I dont have an opinion on this, I am just asking what you guys think. Is it worth differentiating the two?
Also, I didnt know you owned PM Prime, D-Max, you like him that much?
Also, the classics Sideswipe/Sunstreaker didnt strike me as a retool, at least not in the same way that the others on the list do. I see it instead as a really smart singular design and it will definitely be featured on lists in the future
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:44pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:Maybe because the article was written months in advance and you didn't think about editing it?
Or maybe because I dont think it's a great toy. I dont feel it improves on the original mold at all and instead feels like a cheap way to remake Powermaster Prime, similarly to how I feel about Fort Max.
D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I for one really liked the FoC Grimlock mold, just saying
Overall, good list, but I'd say some of the retools in Titans Return are worthy of mention, or at least will be. PM Prime was a great one, and Blurr/Brainstorm is also a good looking one.
Another one I will bring up is Rook to Swindle and Rook to Nosecone. Those are amazing retools on a great figure
But dont those examples get us into the Pre-tool vs Re-tool debate? Is it fair to judge one against the other when it was planned all along for the molds to be shared? I dont have an opinion on this, I am just asking what you guys think. Is it worth differentiating the two?
Also, I didnt know you owned PM Prime, D-Max, you like him that much?
Also, the classics Sideswipe/Sunstreaker didnt strike me as a retool, at least not in the same way that the others on the list do. I see it instead as a really smart singular design and it will definitely be featured on lists in the future
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825771)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:52pm CDT
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, they share a mold and they have different dedicated parts, so they are retools of one another. Chicken and the egg sort of deal for me.
I don't own Prime yet, but I've heard lots of praise for it and I really like the Magnus mold. Plus, it is a very extensive retool and it looks good in both modes, so I was judging it based on that (and I will get it eventually).
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 1:52pm CDT
william-james88 wrote:D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I for one really liked the FoC Grimlock mold, just saying
Overall, good list, but I'd say some of the retools in Titans Return are worthy of mention, or at least will be. PM Prime was a great one, and Blurr/Brainstorm is also a good looking one.
Another one I will bring up is Rook to Swindle and Rook to Nosecone. Those are amazing retools on a great figure
But dont those examples get us into the Pre-tool vs Re-tool debate? Is it fair to judge one against the other when it was planned all along for the molds to be shared? I dont have an opinion on this, I am just asking what you guys think. Is it worth differentiating the two?
Also, I didnt know you owned PM Prime, D-Max, you like him that much?
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, they share a mold and they have different dedicated parts, so they are retools of one another. Chicken and the egg sort of deal for me.
I don't own Prime yet, but I've heard lots of praise for it and I really like the Magnus mold. Plus, it is a very extensive retool and it looks good in both modes, so I was judging it based on that (and I will get it eventually).
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825774)
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:08pm CDT
I see them instead as two eggs that were fertilized in a lab at Hasbro at the same time and one was kept in a freezer so it could be released later.
Moving on, about PM Prime, I suggest you wait till you have him to pass judgment. I didnt hear that much praise about him. I waited to judge myself and the great amount of new parts doesnt in any way make him a good toy, in my opinion. Magnus feels more competent as a product, you can feel that there were no shortcuts done and that he is exactly how he should be. Not so much for Prime. He feels off and certain aspects are half assed, like his base mold. And below is a perfect shot to show how certain design aspects were forgotten halfway, like how his legs are supposed to lock in.
Transformers Titans Return Powermaster Optimus Prime Gallery
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:08pm CDT
D-Maximus_Primal wrote: Chicken and the egg sort of deal for me.
I don't own Prime yet, but I've heard lots of praise for it and I really like the Magnus mold. Plus, it is a very extensive retool and it looks good in both modes, so I was judging it based on that (and I will get it eventually).
I see them instead as two eggs that were fertilized in a lab at Hasbro at the same time and one was kept in a freezer so it could be released later.
Moving on, about PM Prime, I suggest you wait till you have him to pass judgment. I didnt hear that much praise about him. I waited to judge myself and the great amount of new parts doesnt in any way make him a good toy, in my opinion. Magnus feels more competent as a product, you can feel that there were no shortcuts done and that he is exactly how he should be. Not so much for Prime. He feels off and certain aspects are half assed, like his base mold. And below is a perfect shot to show how certain design aspects were forgotten halfway, like how his legs are supposed to lock in.
Transformers Titans Return Powermaster Optimus Prime Gallery
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825775)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:10pm CDT
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:10pm CDT
I really don't consider his base mode a thing. That thing can forge a base mode, but it was never meant for a good, unlike Blaster. And I did see that post in the Titans Return thread, which is weird. I'll have to wait to pass full judgement, but I'd heard and thought it was a good one
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825778)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:35pm CDT
You're a bit harsh here. Once you just accept that the half-soft plastics are a main TF things, everything else seem perfectly fine. I personally think it's a genius design that follow the original closely without being it's slave. My only true complaint is the hollowness of the inner arms. This desperately need a shapeway upgrade. Other than that, it's perfection. The transformation is brilliant, everything tab in perfectly, and there is absolutely nothing loose.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 2:35pm CDT
william-james88 wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:Maybe because the article was written months in advance and you didn't think about editing it?
Or maybe because I dont think it's a great toy. I dont feel it improves on the original mold at all and instead feels like a cheap way to remake Powermaster Prime, similarly to how I feel about Fort Max.
You're a bit harsh here. Once you just accept that the half-soft plastics are a main TF things, everything else seem perfectly fine. I personally think it's a genius design that follow the original closely without being it's slave. My only true complaint is the hollowness of the inner arms. This desperately need a shapeway upgrade. Other than that, it's perfection. The transformation is brilliant, everything tab in perfectly, and there is absolutely nothing loose.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825798)
Posted by Railbomb on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:18pm CDT
I think that people fail to realize with UM and PMOP is they were likely designed to have that semi-bendable soft plastic from the start because their transformations really wouldn't work without it. The transformation of the legs rely on the plastic to have a little bit of give otherwise they wouldn't be able to tab in correctly. Knowing the right places to use the right materials is part of toy design and the UM/PMOP mold excels in that.
On the topic of PMOP being a retool of UM is a cheap way to remake the original, it's not. Unless they bring back the supreme class or takara decides to further retool their own we're not getting a new transforming cab that can combine with a trailer. The leader class doesn't have that kind of budget. Kanrabat said it best, "it's a genius design that follow[s] the original closely without being its slave." It's just more classic/universe style update rather than the very neo-G1 minimal design updates that we've been getting with early CW (before everyone was a retool) and TR so far.
EDIT (again cause I'm dumb): The front of the legs aren't supposed to interlock on the back of the trailer. Those teeth are for the trailer panels that wrap around the legs. They didn't forget anything.
Posted by Railbomb on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:18pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:william-james88 wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:Maybe because the article was written months in advance and you didn't think about editing it?
Or maybe because I dont think it's a great toy. I dont feel it improves on the original mold at all and instead feels like a cheap way to remake Powermaster Prime, similarly to how I feel about Fort Max.
You're a bit harsh here. Once you just accept that the half-soft plastics are a main TF things, everything else seem perfectly fine. I personally think it's a genius design that follow the original closely without being it's slave. My only true complaint is the hollowness of the inner arms. This desperately need a shapeway upgrade. Other than that, it's perfection. The transformation is brilliant, everything tab in perfectly, and there is absolutely nothing loose.
I think that people fail to realize with UM and PMOP is they were likely designed to have that semi-bendable soft plastic from the start because their transformations really wouldn't work without it. The transformation of the legs rely on the plastic to have a little bit of give otherwise they wouldn't be able to tab in correctly. Knowing the right places to use the right materials is part of toy design and the UM/PMOP mold excels in that.
On the topic of PMOP being a retool of UM is a cheap way to remake the original, it's not. Unless they bring back the supreme class or takara decides to further retool their own we're not getting a new transforming cab that can combine with a trailer. The leader class doesn't have that kind of budget. Kanrabat said it best, "it's a genius design that follow[s] the original closely without being its slave." It's just more classic/universe style update rather than the very neo-G1 minimal design updates that we've been getting with early CW (before everyone was a retool) and TR so far.
EDIT (again cause I'm dumb): The front of the legs aren't supposed to interlock on the back of the trailer. Those teeth are for the trailer panels that wrap around the legs. They didn't forget anything.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825799)
Posted by welcometothedarksyde on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:20pm CDT
Posted by welcometothedarksyde on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:20pm CDT
Something I never realized until you showed both MP Starscreams is that they have slightly different alt-modes. The original quite obviously turns into an F-15E Strike Eagle that has the CFT panniers along the sides, and they are pretty much just kibble in robot mode. It's harder to tell on the newer MP Starscream because he has a less accurate underbody, but from the looks of it it doesn't have the CFTs along the sides, probably meaning that his alt-mode is an F-15A/C
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825800)
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:22pm CDT
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 4:22pm CDT
Still don't like Sandstorm, he's the only Voyager I didn't buy in the Pre-Combiner Wars Generations line. I don't like either of his altmodes (obvious treads around the propellers and wheels too narrow to be useful in sand) and that head couldn't be further away from my ideal head from the original figure, or even the cartoon that I want. To me the guy needs a square head, preferably with a mask. What Hasbro made would be like giving Brawn ears or Soundwave a mohawk in my eyes.
That all aside, here's one from Beast Wars that probably very few people looked close enough at to realize they weren't the same mold. In fact they don't even share a single part.
Beast Wars Wolfang gallery
Someone at Hasbro really liked dogs. Shame Tigatron didn't get this kind of attention.
Emerje
That all aside, here's one from Beast Wars that probably very few people looked close enough at to realize they weren't the same mold. In fact they don't even share a single part.
Beast Wars Wolfang gallery
Someone at Hasbro really liked dogs. Shame Tigatron didn't get this kind of attention.
Emerje
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825806)
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 5:03pm CDT
Uh, no. While you're entitled to your opinion, just because it doesn't fit your ideal vision of the character does not mean it is not representative of the character itself. It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 5:03pm CDT
Emerje wrote:that head couldn't be further away from my ideal head from the original figure, or even the cartoon that I want. To me the guy needs a square head, preferably with a mask. What Hasbro made would be like giving Brawn ears or Soundwave a mohawk in my eyes.
Uh, no. While you're entitled to your opinion, just because it doesn't fit your ideal vision of the character does not mean it is not representative of the character itself. It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825808)
Posted by Evil Eye on September 17th, 2016 @ 5:11pm CDT
IMO that's poor design. Relying on the flex of plastic over a hinge is just a bad idea; it negatively affects the plastic of the rest of the toy, and over time it WILL weaken and it WILL break.
Posted by Evil Eye on September 17th, 2016 @ 5:11pm CDT
I think that people fail to realize with UM and PMOP is they were likely designed to have that semi-bendable soft plastic from the start because their transformations really wouldn't work without it. The transformation of the legs rely on the plastic to have a little bit of give otherwise they wouldn't be able to tab in correctly. Knowing the right places to use the right materials is part of toy design and the UM/PMOP mold excels in that.
IMO that's poor design. Relying on the flex of plastic over a hinge is just a bad idea; it negatively affects the plastic of the rest of the toy, and over time it WILL weaken and it WILL break.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825819)
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:28pm CDT
Thanks man, I had not realized that. That does improve my thoughts on the figure, especially since how they added those panels to the toy is my favourite part of the retool.
I am still not it's biggest fan though and preffer the Magnus version.
Oh and that's cool about k9 and wolfang. Reminds me of G1 BB and Cliffjumper.
Posted by william-james88 on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:28pm CDT
Railbomb wrote:EDIT (again cause I'm dumb): The front of the legs aren't supposed to interlock on the back of the trailer. Those teeth are for the trailer panels that wrap around the legs. They didn't forget anything.
Thanks man, I had not realized that. That does improve my thoughts on the figure, especially since how they added those panels to the toy is my favourite part of the retool.
I am still not it's biggest fan though and preffer the Magnus version.
Oh and that's cool about k9 and wolfang. Reminds me of G1 BB and Cliffjumper.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825821)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:55pm CDT
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:55pm CDT
I noticed that as Transformers fans, we always seem to LOVE nitpicking every single insignificant flaws we can find. I'm guilty of it too.
As if...
We just love to hate.
Yeah yeah, silly excuse to post this but I could'nt keep the awesome to myself.
Please don't hurt me!
As if...
We just love to hate.
Yeah yeah, silly excuse to post this but I could'nt keep the awesome to myself.
Please don't hurt me!
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825823)
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:59pm CDT
It's a good thing you posted
I will not hurt
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 6:59pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:I noticed that as Transformers fans, we always seem to LOVE nitpicking every single insignificant flaws we can find. I'm guilty of it too.
As if...
We just love to hate.
Yeah yeah, silly excuse to post this but I could'nt keep the awesome to myself.
Please don't hurt me!
It's a good thing you posted
I will not hurt
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825841)
Posted by Zeedust on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:07pm CDT
What does UFO even mean in this context?
Posted by Zeedust on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:07pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.
What does UFO even mean in this context?
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825847)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:30pm CDT
Take it, chug it, and see people wondering WTF is this flying thing.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:30pm CDT
Zeedust wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.
What does UFO even mean in this context?
Take it, chug it, and see people wondering WTF is this flying thing.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825850)
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:36pm CDT
This has only raised more questions. We need to go deeper.
Posted by steals_your_goats on September 17th, 2016 @ 9:36pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:Zeedust wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:#2 is a way too odd UFO to be on the list.
What does UFO even mean in this context?
Take it, chug it, and see people wondering WTF is this flying thing.
This has only raised more questions. We need to go deeper.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825855)
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:36pm CDT
You really think this...
...plus this...
...equel this?
Granted, I exaggerate by calling the figure head "square", I realize it's the same as Bumblebee or PM Prime and you have to ignore the unsculpted empty space. But the only things in common are the vents, the ridge on the forehead, and the colors. I don't like the way the helmet blends into the face vents rather than being two different parts. I don't like the lack of a mouth plate (I'm sure a TR version would fix this like all of the other G1-toy based stuff). And I don't like that he's missing his head crest, instead just vaguely sculpting something into his forehead. Plus I don't like how long his face is, I preferred his squat head, it gave him more character rather than looking so narrow and Springer-ish. For me the ideal head would have been a full 3D sculpt of the original head, complete with crest and mask, but if they had to do away with the mask then only remove the mask and keep the rest of the features.
And besides, the head sculpt was only one of several issues I had with that figure's design. At the end of the day it's my opinion and my money and I'm free to do with either as I choose.
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:36pm CDT
Kurona wrote:It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.
You really think this...
...plus this...
...equel this?
Granted, I exaggerate by calling the figure head "square", I realize it's the same as Bumblebee or PM Prime and you have to ignore the unsculpted empty space. But the only things in common are the vents, the ridge on the forehead, and the colors. I don't like the way the helmet blends into the face vents rather than being two different parts. I don't like the lack of a mouth plate (I'm sure a TR version would fix this like all of the other G1-toy based stuff). And I don't like that he's missing his head crest, instead just vaguely sculpting something into his forehead. Plus I don't like how long his face is, I preferred his squat head, it gave him more character rather than looking so narrow and Springer-ish. For me the ideal head would have been a full 3D sculpt of the original head, complete with crest and mask, but if they had to do away with the mask then only remove the mask and keep the rest of the features.
And besides, the head sculpt was only one of several issues I had with that figure's design. At the end of the day it's my opinion and my money and I'm free to do with either as I choose.
Emerje
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825857)
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:48pm CDT
Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.
Posted by Kurona on September 17th, 2016 @ 10:48pm CDT
Emerje wrote:Kurona wrote:It pays homage to both the toy head and the cartoon face, melding them together. It's not as if they put in some random facial feature that goes completely against the nature and visual aesthetic of the character.
You really think this...
...plus this...
...equel this?
Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825863)
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:09pm CDT
Sourced, but not sourced well. Is it really successful if it's missing half the things that made the original sculpt interesting?
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:09pm CDT
Kurona wrote:Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.
Sourced, but not sourced well. Is it really successful if it's missing half the things that made the original sculpt interesting?
Emerje
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825869)
Posted by Railbomb on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:21pm CDT
To be fair, not many of the G1 headsculpts were too interesting later on. There were a lot of "not quite Optimus Prime" heads and Sandstorm was one of them. The new head takes a few more distinctive features from the head and makes it distinguishable.
Posted by Railbomb on September 17th, 2016 @ 11:21pm CDT
Emerje wrote:Kurona wrote:Well.
Yeah.
Anything on the Generations headsculpt can be sourced back to either the toy or the cartoon.
Sourced, but not sourced well. Is it really successful if it's missing half the things that made the original sculpt interesting?
Emerje
To be fair, not many of the G1 headsculpts were too interesting later on. There were a lot of "not quite Optimus Prime" heads and Sandstorm was one of them. The new head takes a few more distinctive features from the head and makes it distinguishable.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825879)
Posted by Ultra Markus on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:40am CDT
Posted by Ultra Markus on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:40am CDT
not even a mention of titans return fortress maximus 
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825924)
Posted by Relic0037 on September 18th, 2016 @ 9:45am CDT
Posted by Relic0037 on September 18th, 2016 @ 9:45am CDT
Couldn't agree more with the inclusion of the Seeker Coneheads on this list. Even though I usually purchase Masterpiece figures to be my definitive version of a character, I don't see myself getting rid of my set of these after we get Thrust and Dirge in that form.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825935)
Posted by Deathsanras on September 18th, 2016 @ 11:02am CDT
Posted by Deathsanras on September 18th, 2016 @ 11:02am CDT
As someone who doesn't collect Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors, Blast Off/Strafe and Onslaught/Hot Spot both dropped my jaw when I found out they were shared molds.
I also think the Universe Sideswipe/Sunstreaker solution was brilliant, particularly given their original announcement as a straight-up new head redeco, as was the Generations Tracks/Wheeljack pairing.
The Masterpiece Starscream mold also deserves credit for more the recent Conehead remold.
I also think the Universe Sideswipe/Sunstreaker solution was brilliant, particularly given their original announcement as a straight-up new head redeco, as was the Generations Tracks/Wheeljack pairing.
The Masterpiece Starscream mold also deserves credit for more the recent Conehead remold.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825942)
Posted by frogbat on September 18th, 2016 @ 12:11pm CDT
Posted by frogbat on September 18th, 2016 @ 12:11pm CDT
I'm easier to please than most but I thought that power master prime is a great figure harking back to the original in a great way. I'd obviously have liked a robot transforming into a cab for both UM and prime. My main criticism is the legs are a bit screwed up without ankle tilts and the Takara version though addresses the issue doesn't look that great.
I thought sandstorm a pretty good toy, quite a nice update but I think that if they had to redo him now homaging the original toy more, they'd do a better job.
My favourite current retool has to be scourge into highbrow, from generations, sideswipe and sun streaker were pretty good as was weheeljack into tracks. From g1, think grapple and inferno were good uses of the same mould...
I thought sandstorm a pretty good toy, quite a nice update but I think that if they had to redo him now homaging the original toy more, they'd do a better job.
My favourite current retool has to be scourge into highbrow, from generations, sideswipe and sun streaker were pretty good as was weheeljack into tracks. From g1, think grapple and inferno were good uses of the same mould...
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825949)
Posted by Optimum Supreme on September 18th, 2016 @ 12:57pm CDT
That's why redecos is probably the better term than repaints. There might be figures where the changes are mostly or all paint ops, but usually it's changes in plastic colors.
I disagree entirely about Ultra Magnus. The original design was pretty good IMO, and they should have used that one on the show instead of the (IMO) fairly dull Optimus remold.
There should still be a UM on the list, but it should be G1. Even if the fiction never touched on it, having a guy who was Optimus in a different color that could merge with his trailer to make a supermode. All us kids thought that was just about the awesomest when we first saw it (well before the movie came out). It took an already great toy and made it better. What more can you ask of a retool?
Posted by Optimum Supreme on September 18th, 2016 @ 12:57pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:
Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.
That's why redecos is probably the better term than repaints. There might be figures where the changes are mostly or all paint ops, but usually it's changes in plastic colors.
I disagree entirely about Ultra Magnus. The original design was pretty good IMO, and they should have used that one on the show instead of the (IMO) fairly dull Optimus remold.
There should still be a UM on the list, but it should be G1. Even if the fiction never touched on it, having a guy who was Optimus in a different color that could merge with his trailer to make a supermode. All us kids thought that was just about the awesomest when we first saw it (well before the movie came out). It took an already great toy and made it better. What more can you ask of a retool?
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825950)
Posted by Kurona on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:03pm CDT
Posted by Kurona on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:03pm CDT
Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1825954)
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:11pm CDT
Exactly. No new retool here.
Although I'd really love to get my hands on a original Diaclone Ultra Magnus to actually have "Optimus Prime" in what could have been his first super mode. But this will remain a dream because I'm not paying that kind of money for that. Even for the reissue.
Posted by -Kanrabat- on September 18th, 2016 @ 1:11pm CDT
Kurona wrote:Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.
Exactly. No new retool here.
Although I'd really love to get my hands on a original Diaclone Ultra Magnus to actually have "Optimus Prime" in what could have been his first super mode. But this will remain a dream because I'm not paying that kind of money for that. Even for the reissue.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1826042)
Posted by King Kuuga on September 18th, 2016 @ 9:52pm CDT
No, they are reDECOS. They changed the plastic colors, as well as the paint apps. That's the deco. Redeco.
Actually the most minor retool you could find would be something like enlarging a tab so it fits its socket better, or switching the gearing in CW Optimus's hips.
Yes, actually. They widened the front axle of the cab so he could lock into the trailer for armored mode.
Posted by King Kuuga on September 18th, 2016 @ 9:52pm CDT
-Kanrabat- wrote:Andrius wrote:I'm also particularly fond of the Dark Energon line. I'm not sure if they can be counted as true retools, since the modes are generally the same, but I'm willing to give a pass based on all the translucent bits. (Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)
Those are NOT retools, but repaints. Even if the "paint" is clear plastics.
No, they are reDECOS. They changed the plastic colors, as well as the paint apps. That's the deco. Redeco.
Andrius wrote:(Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)
Actually the most minor retool you could find would be something like enlarging a tab so it fits its socket better, or switching the gearing in CW Optimus's hips.
Kurona wrote:Was G1 Ultra Magnus really a retool, though? Nothing was changed about the figure itself (other than a new deco), it just came with a new - albeit extremely large and significant - accessory.
Yes, actually. They widened the front axle of the cab so he could lock into the trailer for armored mode.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1826058)
Posted by Tiby on September 18th, 2016 @ 10:46pm CDT
Posted by Tiby on September 18th, 2016 @ 10:46pm CDT
Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1826069)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:18am CDT
Not everyone here really cares about the distinction, and it's a really minor one as they only differ in timing of the design: before/during vs. after completion . Besides, didn't the Top 5 Pretools get a list already?
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:18am CDT
Tiby wrote:Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.
Not everyone here really cares about the distinction, and it's a really minor one as they only differ in timing of the design: before/during vs. after completion . Besides, didn't the Top 5 Pretools get a list already?
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1826070)
Posted by Tiby on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:40am CDT
My point exactly. There is a clear difference.
Posted by Tiby on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:40am CDT
Tiby wrote:
Looks like a lot of people missed the point of this list: that these were retools before the planned "pretools" in the Combiner Wars and following lines.
Not everyone here really cares about the distinction, and it's a really minor one as they only differ in timing of the design: before/during vs. after completion . Besides, didn't the Top 5 Pretools get a list already?
My point exactly. There is a clear difference.
Re: Top 5 Best Retools Amongst Transformers Toys (1826253)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:29pm CDT
I feel there is too, and you caught what I meant, so thanks
But I wont get in the way of the conversation and I would rather there be a conversation rather than none. I do find it a bit odd that we tart to throw in things like Highbrow though since he's as much a retool of Scourge as First Aid is or SkyDive, where in both cases the main thing in common is the same basic skeleton which gives yo an identical transformation. CW First Aid, Sky Dive, Firefly and Offroad all have identical transformations, does that make them all retools of eachother? Its gets tricky. CW really blurred the lines Robin Thick style so I felt more confident (and was more impressed) with retools based on older molds because the idea is that you have an established design and mold and they try to rework it into a new design. We clearly know who the chicken and who the egg are.
Anyways, the deal with the CW line and TR is that unlike the retools I mention in the list, the reuse of molds in these newer lines just give you more product but not better product.
Fort Max is a great example and here is why he doesnt get a mention on this list: the retooling just exists to give us a new toy but not a great one. There is no improvement over the Metroplex mold, and it doesnt feel like its his own. Especially since there are 2 significant leftover bits from Metroplex that serve no use: the legs opening and that arm connector gimmick. Instead of feeling like Fort Max, he feels like a Metroplex retool. You dont feel that about Sandstorm. And I will admit, you dont feel that too much about Power Master Prime, aside from the reuse of guns which is odd.
Oh about Sanstorm's heasculpt, that was an itneresting discussion:
Yes 100%, I think its a perfect merger. The toon version didnt have the Prime "ears" and that makes sense. They instead went with the idea that his head is that black square you see on the toy. The toy itself has a shape to his head so it makes sense that they would base the shape of his head for the Neo G1 version on the protruding headsculpt of the toy while not giving him the "ears" and giving him a mouth to still homage his look on the show. Whether one thinks it works is pureply subjective but it is undeniable that both looks are distinctly homaged in that headsculpt. This discussion gave me a whole new way to appreciate this awesome toy.
It means he finds Killer Punch random as fuck.
I think it was a really cheap way to give us the coneheads sice now you are stuck with all that extra kibble in the back when his head is supposed to be the actual conehead. I really feel the classics mold handled it better, they have 0 extraneous kibble in robot mode, its really cool.
I am pretty sure they were talking purely about aesthetic changes, changes to the mold that affect the look of the figure rather than its functionality.
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2016 @ 1:29pm CDT
Tiby wrote:My point exactly. There is a clear difference.
I feel there is too, and you caught what I meant, so thanks
But I wont get in the way of the conversation and I would rather there be a conversation rather than none. I do find it a bit odd that we tart to throw in things like Highbrow though since he's as much a retool of Scourge as First Aid is or SkyDive, where in both cases the main thing in common is the same basic skeleton which gives yo an identical transformation. CW First Aid, Sky Dive, Firefly and Offroad all have identical transformations, does that make them all retools of eachother? Its gets tricky. CW really blurred the lines Robin Thick style so I felt more confident (and was more impressed) with retools based on older molds because the idea is that you have an established design and mold and they try to rework it into a new design. We clearly know who the chicken and who the egg are.Anyways, the deal with the CW line and TR is that unlike the retools I mention in the list, the reuse of molds in these newer lines just give you more product but not better product.
Fort Max is a great example and here is why he doesnt get a mention on this list: the retooling just exists to give us a new toy but not a great one. There is no improvement over the Metroplex mold, and it doesnt feel like its his own. Especially since there are 2 significant leftover bits from Metroplex that serve no use: the legs opening and that arm connector gimmick. Instead of feeling like Fort Max, he feels like a Metroplex retool. You dont feel that about Sandstorm. And I will admit, you dont feel that too much about Power Master Prime, aside from the reuse of guns which is odd.
Oh about Sanstorm's heasculpt, that was an itneresting discussion:
Emerje wrote:
You really think this...
...plus this...
...equel this?
Yes 100%, I think its a perfect merger. The toon version didnt have the Prime "ears" and that makes sense. They instead went with the idea that his head is that black square you see on the toy. The toy itself has a shape to his head so it makes sense that they would base the shape of his head for the Neo G1 version on the protruding headsculpt of the toy while not giving him the "ears" and giving him a mouth to still homage his look on the show. Whether one thinks it works is pureply subjective but it is undeniable that both looks are distinctly homaged in that headsculpt. This discussion gave me a whole new way to appreciate this awesome toy.
Zeedust wrote:What does UFO even mean in this context?
It means he finds Killer Punch random as fuck.
Deathsanras wrote:The Masterpiece Starscream mold also deserves credit for more the recent Conehead remold.
I think it was a really cheap way to give us the coneheads sice now you are stuck with all that extra kibble in the back when his head is supposed to be the actual conehead. I really feel the classics mold handled it better, they have 0 extraneous kibble in robot mode, its really cool.
King Kuuga wrote:Andrius wrote:(Well, technically Optimus gets a new face sculpt, so that's about as minor a retool as you'll find.)
Actually the most minor retool you could find would be something like enlarging a tab so it fits its socket better, or switching the gearing in CW Optimus's hips.
I am pretty sure they were talking purely about aesthetic changes, changes to the mold that affect the look of the figure rather than its functionality.
