Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor / Sideswipe!

Ughh... That sucks. Not that it actually matters, but are these true bootlegs, or repackaged QC-rejects taken/stolen from the official production lines?

I've heard that Tiger Track too has been the subject of QC-rejects having been taken from the factory rejects bin, and then repackaged in counterfeit packaging (no holographic seal on the box), complete with copied instructions and character cards.

BTW, keep in mind that factory QC reject bins are often the source of the newer, sold loose (with no instructions) Transformers and other toys that are offered on eBay and other sites.

Wow, that was fast.

Only thing I notice right off the bat is that the red is lighter, but that could just be the lighting.

I know this conversation has gone round and round, but KO's flat piss me off. 3rd party, not so much KO's seem WAY more sinister. The intention MIGHT be (but I highly doubt) to offer a product at a reduced cost, but at some point, people will be getting these believing they have an authentic piece. You all know it's gonna happen.

iirc even legit stores got victimized by the KOs (G1 Cyclonus and Metroplex)..........if only Tomy will release a second pressing.

Them KO's are just bad in all kinds of ways. Some people who are reading this are now going to check their mp figures and so am I. Good thing the official masterpieces have that special sticker. I say that if you ever receive a ko, do everything that's in your power to return it.
And I'm watching who I buy from, from now on.

I know this ko issue is due to takara only producing a kind of limited amount of their figures and that people always want them to make a trillion figures and repaints and reissues so that everyone can get a chance to get the toy that they want. And I say no to that, that's decreasing the value of the toy (common example: generations bruticus). I want the toy makers to keep all the toy making to only one or two production runs and only one or no repaints of figures. This might increase the ko problem but for the collector who does get the original toy can see its value go up, up, up.

Eagleblaster wrote:Them KO's are just bad in all kinds of ways. Some people who are reading this are now checking there mp figures and so am I. Good thing the official masterpieces have that special sticker. I say that if you ever receive a ko, do everything that's in your power to return it.
And I'm watching who I buy from, from now on.

Well, there are two sides to the coin, as the saying goes. KOs can be an acceptable alternative, as long as their quality is excellent. For example, for the past few years, I've been searching for the Classics Voyager Optimus Prime. Those things go for big money here on the internetz. If I had to choose, I'd much rather take a KO that had excellent quality than the real deal that is hard to find and costs moolah.

Now, if the seller advertises as the legit figure, and it turns out to be a KO, then oh yes, there's a special place in hell for sellers such as those.

Eagleblaster wrote:(...)
I know this ko issue is due to takara only producing a kind of limited amount of their figures and that people always want them to make a trillion figures and repaints and reissues so that everyone can get a chance to get the toy that they want. And I say no to that, that's decreasing the value of the toy (common example: generations bruticus). I want the toy makers to keep all the toy making to only one or two production runs and only one or no repaints of figures. This might increase the ko problem but for the collector who does get the original toy can see its value go up, up, up.

If you are in the toy collecting game only to see your toys go up in value, you should really start wondering if you are in it for the right reasons. That attitude only leads to scalping: abusing the real or perceived 'limited' or 'exclusive' nature of the availability of a toy.
Luckily, neither Takara or Hasbro thinks that way, and both have been proven to adapt their supply to the demand, with multiple runs of some of their most popular Masterpieces and with Encore reissues of some of the most rare/desired G1 toys. That in fact is the only way to combat KO's: to make enough products so that the demand is sated.

Mindmaster wrote:

Eagleblaster wrote:Them KO's are just bad in all kinds of ways. Some people who are reading this are now checking there mp figures and so am I. Good thing the official masterpieces have that special sticker. I say that if you ever receive a ko, do everything that's in your power to return it.
And I'm watching who I buy from, from now on.

Well, there are two sides to the coin, as the saying goes. KOs can be an acceptable alternative, as long as their quality is excellent. For example, for the past few years, I've been searching for the Classics Voyager Optimus Prime. Those things go for big money here on the internetz. If I had to choose, I'd much rather take a KO that had excellent quality than the real deal that is hard to find and costs moolah.

Now, if the seller advertises as the legit figure, and it turns out to be a KO, then oh yes, there's a special place in hell for sellers such as those.

True, true. If the seller says if the product is a ko or not in the item description then that would really help the problem. And plus I don't want to put them small sellers and small time merchants out of business.

alldarker wrote:

Eagleblaster wrote:(...)
I know this ko issue is due to takara only producing a kind of limited amount of their figures and that people always want them to make a trillion figures and repaints and reissues so that everyone can get a chance to get the toy that they want. And I say no to that, that's decreasing the value of the toy (common example: generations bruticus). I want the toy makers to keep all the toy making to only one or two production runs and only one or no repaints of figures. This might increase the ko problem but for the collector who does get the original toy can see its value go up, up, up.

If you are in the toy collecting game only to see your toys go up in value, you should really start wondering if you are in it for the right reasons. That attitude only leads to scalping: abusing the real or perceived 'limited' or 'exclusive' nature of the availability of a toy.
Luckily, neither Takara or Hasbro thinks that way, and both have been proven to adapt their supply to the demand, with multiple runs of some of their most popular Masterpieces and with Encore reissues of some of the most rare/desired G1 toys. That in fact is the only way to combat KO's: to make enough products so that the demand is sated.

Although I may not agree with Eagleblaster completely; Alldarker, who makes the decision what is the right reason to collect Transformers?

alldarker wrote:Ughh... That sucks. Not that it actually matters, but are these true bootlegs, or repackaged QC-rejects taken/stolen from the official production lines?

I've heard that Tiger Track too has been the subject of QC-rejects having been taken from the factory rejects bin, and then repackaged in counterfeit packaging (no holographic seal on the box), complete with copied instructions and character cards.

BTW, keep in mind that factory QC reject bins are often the source of the newer, sold loose (with no instructions) Transformers and other toys that are offered on eBay and other sites.

I never knew that. Thanks

alldarker wrote:

Eagleblaster wrote:(...)
I know this ko issue is due to takara only producing a kind of limited amount of their figures and that people always want them to make a trillion figures and repaints and reissues so that everyone can get a chance to get the toy that they want. And I say no to that, that's decreasing the value of the toy (common example: generations bruticus). I want the toy makers to keep all the toy making to only one or two production runs and only one or no repaints of figures. This might increase the ko problem but for the collector who does get the original toy can see its value go up, up, up.

If you are in the toy collecting game only to see your toys go up in value, you should really start wondering if you are in it for the right reasons. That attitude only leads to scalping: abusing the real or perceived 'limited' or 'exclusive' nature of the availability of a toy.
Luckily, neither Takara or Hasbro thinks that way, and both have been proven to adapt their supply to the demand, with multiple runs of some of their most popular Masterpieces and with Encore reissues of some of the most rare/desired G1 toys. That in fact is the only way to combat KO's: to make enough products so that the demand is sated.

You are so so wrong. Flooding the market with a large production and reissues and repaints and exclusives it exactly the problem. If you have all these different variations of the same toy then it wouldn't be hard to just throw a couple thousand ko's into the market without anyone noticing, if you know what I mean.

If it was kept to a limited collectors run but not really really limited but not all them remakes then ppl who dI'd get the chance to pick the original toy up can say I know I got the real toy cause it was only made in the year or time of so and so. If I'm making any sence.
Finally, there is a way to combat ko's and that is to put special labeling on all the products and toys.

Stormrider wrote:(...)
Although I may not agree with Eagleblaster completely; Alldarker, who makes the decision what is the right reason to collect Transformers?

I DO!!!! Just kidding, yeah, everyone has their own reasons for collecting: some like playing with their toys, some like staring at them as they lie untouched in their boxes.

To me personally, however, enjoying your toy partly/mostly/only because it is rare and expensive, rather than for the fact it is a nice toy, seems rather sad.

That's why I loved the fact that for example Fortress Maximus was reissued: it is a great and magnificent toy and the costs of a vintage FM had indeed become prohibitive due to the workings of supply (small) and demand (large). Same goes for the second run of Takara's MP Soundwave (and of course Hasbro's own MP Soundwave): when it first came out, supply of this toy was limited while demand was huge. And that not only attracts scalpers, but also the producters of KO's (getting back on topic). There's only going to be bucks in it for KO-producers if the price they can sell them at is high enough to risk the production of KO's (and that value has evidently been reached with MP-12 Lambor and MP-12T Tiger Track). If there are enough official products and repaints of those products to satisfy the demand, there would be no incentive for KO-producers.

sorry but the mp line is where I set my boundaries.
when takara goes above and beyond to get the liscences for these vehicles including wheeljack and bumblebee i will only support the official version.
for those that say its not an investment your right 100% until that is you no longer want to collect and decide to liquidate your collection then all of a sudden it will matter.
the only reason im passionate about this line is because ive forgone every other line to collect mp. not for an investment but because finally ill have the bots i grew up with in an awesome scale, posability, and faithful detail to the cartoon and it saddens me to see this nonsense happen but alas nothing we can do to prevent it

side note: sooooo glad i got ss when i did as hes my favorite car character.

I absolutely 100% agree with alldarker.

Sure, you can collect for exclusivity.. But not at the cost of people not being able to get what they want.. Especially when the particular item is not a convention exclusive. . Those should be the only toys that are difficult to obtain.

I also agree that when there is little supply, and huge demand.. That's usually when we see knock offs happen.. Like city commander.. Masterpiece figures.. Etc. I think it's rare to see toys that are easy to obtain being released as a knock off.

As for the KO matter, I don't mind it at all, as long as its labeled as a knock off by whoever is selling it.

I, personally will continue buying the real toys.. And knowing that I own the real thing is good enough for me.

I believe that there is a place for knock offs, not everyone has the money to purchase the real thing.. And I'm not one to tell someone else that they can't buy a toy because its not the real thing.. It's their choice, and maybe it's their only choice of owning a particular mold. But, again, it should be THEIR choice to own the knock off, not the sellers choice to sell a person one without it being clearly labeled as a knock off.

On topic: There was a pretty long thread over on TFW about this and a chinese dealer who actually had 8-10 of them in stock (not knowingly till TFW guys pointed it out) went back to the person he got them from and confirmed they are factory rejects in boxes that dont have the hologram. There were apparently more MP12T this way than sideswipe(s)... And as someone else pointed out, that's where all the new "loose" figures on ebay come from as well. One seller had several MP12s with red heads.

An evil duplicate of Sideswipe? Right down to the pile-drivers?!

He's going after the Nova Suspension Bridge!!! AAAAAAH!!!

I'll usually defend KOs more vehemently than anyone else, but coming out so soon after the real MP...and is Takara doing another run, or did the second run already arrive? Considering many fans like myself still haven't saved up for the real deal, and there's no clear word that we're never getting this from Hasbro (unlikely as it is), I agree this is going to cause more confusion than a KO should.

HOWEVER, if the licensing agreement should unexpectedly fall through, preventing any possible official rereleases down the road, some of us will be thanking the KO-maker who actually can pull off and distribute a high-quality copy of this.

Just sticking to my mantra of preservation being job one, official or otherwise. I would rather save up for a real one, and hope someone posts a guide of any differences ASAP.

Eagleblaster sounds rather selfish. Toys are made for kids to play with.

To limit others in getting what they like just so the price goes up doesn't seem fair. Almost sounds like having a certain TF gives you status.

As long as there's a main line with some repaints to keep the factories running, and a wide distribution + low prices, there shouldn't be much profit in making KO's.

They're toys not designer purses

my uneducated 2 cents

The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

It's about shades of grey - apparently there are at least 50 of them

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

I agree with you about the ko's but I'm not sure what you're getting at with the 3rd party stuff.

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

I agree to this fully.

And also admit that I'm a bit of a hypocrite, since I have Hegemon (really want a good Megatron) and Hercules (I bought Hercules more just to spend an insane amount of euro's. Should've waited a year because I bought Encore Maximus when I kind of didn't have the cash for it)

I also have a totally different vibe with 3rd party stuff, they're not real Transformers imho. The Transformers I love the most are the ones that were mass released and everybody has one. The ones I don't have to grab of ebay but can buy in the local toy store.

Damn, already? Seriously how the hell did they manage to KO this mold in such a short time? This is going to make hunting one down once I can justify it really difficult and expensive.

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

Easy, stuff like this is made to deceive people and ripp off the original creators.

Most 3rd Party stuff is made to enhance an existing toy or finally provide something that Hasbro/Takara won't or can't. HasTak don't loose out on a sale for something they don't offer. And I am yet to see a 3rd Party company trying to pass of one of its products as something by HasTak.

I thought that the 3rd party party debate can of worms had been well and truly closed by the unceremonius deletion of the threads a year or so back. Leave the worms in the can would be my advice, given the amount of ads on this site which advertise said 3rd party figures. It's one thing to so vehemently object to the existence of 3rd party figures, but quite another to do so while being sponsored by various outlets who provide them.

Unbelievable, another one of those things where both buyers and sellers have to watch out. If KO TFs have some sort of box, color, or toy stamp differentiation from the real deal, I would support them 200%! With that said, I utterly abhor and despise these exact KO duplications that cause a confusion to both the buyers and sellers thinking its the authentic onr. Nobody wants to get screwed in buying a premium price thinking they got the real deal only to find out later that's KO
Til this day, I refuse to buy HQ KO TF Reissue and now I just add the KO MP version.

I know this is big enough to warrant a mention in the regular Toy Forum, it seems every time the debate pops up in here, it's guaranteed to spiral out of control. As such,

Original thread in the 3rd Party and KO Forum

Do as you wish.

When I go buy an MP, and this may happen some time after it's been released, I have no idea if I'm buying a legit TF or not. And it's not safe to even ask the seller, as they may have no idea that they are selling a KO! That's the problem with KO's: they are NOT offered as a cheap alternative; they are offered as a COUNTERFEIT PRODUCT SOLD AS OFFICIAL!

Especially when we look at THIS KO. It's clearly not marked to distinguish itself as a cheaper Sideswipe. So let's not go into how "KO's offer collectors cheap alternatives". That would only be true IF KO's were sold as cheap alternatives. Most of us do not have the required knowledge to tell a good KO box apart from an official TF box.

Eagleblaster wrote:This might increase the ko problem but for the collector who does get the original toy can see its value go up, up, up.

I have to echo the sentiment of "collecting to amass a fortune" is a bit of a mental illness (my label). Look at this objectively: while it's TRUE that TF's generally go up in value, the increase is MARGINAL. We're talking about a small profit, unless you mean to hoard a large amount of TF toys. I consider collecting to make money akin to a mental illness because there are better ways to make money. Investing in almost anything will make more money than hoarding TF's (i.e. bonds, gold, big name stocks like Caterpillar, etc.). Imagine if I said we should save CEREAL BOXES for collector's value/to make money. While it may happen that a cereal box will sell for a lot more than originally marked, that's really no way to make your fortune.

Reference the 90s comic implosion as a good example. Collecting to make money leads to junk sales that hurt the industry in the long run.

alldarker wrote:If you are in the toy collecting game only to see your toys go up in value, you should really start wondering if you are in it for the right reasons. That attitude only leads to scalping: abusing the real or perceived 'limited' or 'exclusive' nature of the availability of a toy.

This. The scalpers/poachers exist because of this attitude that "TF's are super valuable and will help me get rich!!!!!!" I don't disagree that hoarding and selling later can be profitable; I'm asking how much blunt force trauma to the head does one need to receive in order to believe that THIS is how we will retire young and wealthy.

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

I love you, but I'm having trouble following you. So you're saying that if I b*tch about Metroplex being unavailable (or too expensive), it's wrong to say that 3rd Party and/or KO's are okay? I mean, for one thing, I wouldn't mix up 3rd Parties and KO producers in the same camp! They're really not the same people, and I think their priorities don't align so closely.
Certainly, it could take many more DECADES to see a proper Devastator release, for example, so the availability of 3rd Party Devastators is not only necessary, but also imperative: it's the 3rd Party guys who are sticking a hot coal under HasTak's butt. Without that pressure, there would be less MP's and Encore's, IMO.

Doesn't bother me much at all. If it's cheap I get a hankerin' for an MP Sideswipe, I'll happily buy a KO.

Yeah, I saw a bunch of these on eBay and assumed they were either KOs or factory leftovers.

I missed out on Sideswipe, if Takara does another round of MP-12 then I will get one.

But if not, and I could get one of these KOs for a decent price then sure.

Seibertron wrote:The mentality that KOs are OK because you can't afford or find the original absolutely baffles me. It's the same mentality that rationalizes 3rd party products. But those of you who are fans of one and not the other somehow have it worked out in your heads that it is indeed different. It's unfortunate that people try to justify all of this.

Okay, I wanted to just do my brief spiel about preservation etc. while agreeing that this particular KO was pushing it timing-wise and that the "cost" argument is indeed a lame defense of KOs, and not resort to being an ass to make/refute a point...but apparently we all have vastly different Platonic "forms" of "3rd Party product" in their heads. Seib, if it's really the exact same mentality, then I presume we can look forward to you posting galleries of mass-released Has/Tak toys of the Autoscout, transforming G1 Arcee, and every type of Quintesson sometime soon, yes? True, no one is entitled to personally own cheap representations of every TF character/thing they ever liked, but considering it's been almost three decades and those haven't yet officially happened, shouldn't those characters/things exist in some physical form while the fans who care about them are still alive?

Just barely back on topic, was anything said at BotCon about Hasbro releasing any of the Masterpiece car guys? Or are we all just assuming a real MP Sideswipe will only be released by Takara?

It's a little hard to believe that Seibertron would be against 3rd Party products, considering how many are sold and advertised on/off of this site. All of the online shops really pump the 3rd Party stuff, and I'm sure it has something to do with popularity (and profit margins).

That said, this is probably a topic best left for non-site owners, as I wouldn't want to put Seibertron in any awkward situations with sponsors, HasTak, or whomever.

I blew the pic up for ID purpose, original eyes are more triangle at the edge while the KO are more like rectangle:

REMINATOR wrote:I blew the pic up for ID purpose, original eyes are more triangle at the edge while the KO are more like rectangle:

Wait, WHAT?!? The real ones are seriously all evil-squinting like that? I'm not sure I believe that until some better galleries get posted, but IF that's true, I'll gladly take my chances with the KO. Dammit, I was trying to fly right on this one too...

The KO uses the Tigertrack head (which is Sideswipe's helmet and Red Alert's face). There is also a difference in the holographic Official Product sticker.

Bumblevivisector wrote:Wait, WHAT?!? The real ones are seriously all evil-squinting like that? I'm not sure I believe that until some better galleries get posted, but IF that's true, I'll gladly take my chances with the KO. Dammit, I was trying to fly right on this one too...

Yes that is true

i'll amend my first post a bit.

i think there is a place for KO's.. but ONLY if they are clearly labeled as KO's, and enough time has passed where the official release has run its course. so i'd say, in maybe a year and a half to 2 years (or depending on whether hasbro releases a version) would it be appropriate to release this. and again, it has to be CLEARLY sold as a KO.

3rd parties and knockoffs are completely different. however, there were those knock off coneheads, which i don't agree with, it's basically a KO of the masterpiece seeker mold with some changes. i still believe that takara has the opportunity of giving us the rest of the seekers. but other than that, i don't think they're alike whatsoever. like it's been said before. 3rd parties offer accessories that hasbro won't give us, add on sets that hasbro won't give us, proper combiners that hasbro won't give us. and in no way have i seen 3rd parties attempting to compete with anything hasbro has done..
if anything, 3rd parties have helped hasbro out a bit. giving us add on sets for the combiners that hasbro has released, like superion and bruticus. a lot of the third party products help hasbro's toys. unlike KO's where a lot of them trick the fandom and directly compete with an official product.
and we've seen third party companies back off when there is the potential for competition, my main example would be with the 3rd party MP soundwave. we saw several prototypes and whatnot.. but once takara announced an official release, that figure was quashed.

Just a minor heads-up.

I just checked my Lambor, and found that under certain lighting (dim or "warm" light), the hologram can look a little like the fake one. I brought the box out into the patio, and one then did I see the hologram.

Good thing I bought the very first batch (so it can't have been a KO), and checked that my Sideswipe has the original's "evil eyes."

Somewhat related, does Lambor's face look better in reality? Something about it just looks off to me in most photos I've seen. Like it's too detailed or overly molded.

Also, can his head be popped off if there's ever a third party alternative?

LOST Cybertronian wrote:The KO uses the Tigertrack head (which is Sideswipe's helmet and Red Alert's face). There is also a difference in the holographic Official Product sticker.

Can you describe the sticker difference a little more? Is the rainbow/prismatic affect absent from the KO sticker?

Are we certain these are KO versus unsanctioned releases? I realize that I am splitting hairs, but it essentially seems like someone stole a bunch of irregulars and defects and is selling them.

Stormrider wrote:Can you describe the sticker difference a little more? Is the rainbow/prismatic affect absent from the KO sticker?

Are we certain these are KO versus unsanctioned releases? I realize that I am splitting hairs, but it essentially seems like someone stole a bunch of irregulars and defects and is selling them.

Unfortunately that is one I cannot find a lot of info on.

Stormrider wrote:Are we certain these are KO versus unsanctioned releases? I realize that I am splitting hairs, but it essentially seems like someone stole a bunch of irregulars and defects and is selling them.

Here's another thought, if it's not a KO, why was it written something like "Iambogrithi Canluch"? I realize those words weren't really clear from the photo, so I'll give the benefit of doubt. We'll find out more as people get their.

I learned from a friend about a KO mp sideswipe. I eventually did my own online research on the matter, and the forums/sites ended up pointing to taobao as the source. Taobao is an auction site. People can list prices their way down the market price to scam people just like they do on ebay. Taobao is notorious for that if you are not careful.

I checked out the other sites that forum/sites pointed to. They also ended up at Taobao. Many of those are pre-orders. the 100 yuan to 200 yuan down are pre order payment. None refundable if you cancelled. They will charge you the remaining balance once the item comes in before they ship it to you.

Differences in the heads. As a manufacturer , If I want a slight adjustment when the parts (evil eyes head sideswipe) is out of stock already, I'll put in the head part of what ever I have on hand. It just happens to be the red alert head because I have an extra run of it made for tiger tracks laying around. Also just because a manufacturer made a slight adjustment to sticker doesn't even mean its a ko.

The hologram sticker difference. same reasoning as above. The old rainbow type sticker run out. So they made a new one. Logical reasoning/proof: check your cellphone's battery. Nokia has at least 2 versions out in hologram stickers. one with the hand , another with the the word "nokia". both security stickers are originals. Nobody crying one sticker proves it real and the other different sticker is a fake. Same with Bandai Saint Seiya Myth Figures. Japan local release has a different local hologram foil sticker on the box than those being release elsewhere in Asia. You don't see people crying knock offs just because of it.

Back in the 80's to 90's - slight color differentiation, slight mold adjustment are expected during a production run . could be from mold degradation to the upper execs wanting it to look better. Its toys,people - not food. So slight adjustments, tweaking here and there are normal . Yet they are all considered as originals. These days, a slight adjustment happens and people shout like hell its a bloody knock off! sheesh....

I held a lot of Kos in my life time. I buy, collect and also get them for friends. The suppose KO MP12 in my opinion,versus the evidence at hand, (and I hope you guys can respect that,) is not a KO, but just a modified sideswipe with a new head.

Then explain the recently announced second production run of MP-12, due for release around December/January, while the "KO's" should be out already

TakaraTomy is not the type of company to use other parts for toys on a larger scale (like the head), and bootleggers have come a long way. Check out their "Chinese G1 Reissues" to see what I mean.

I'am aware of those ko G1 toys. And again, to my knowledge, Takara does use parts of other toys on toys they deemed fit to use it.

The current one out could be an Asia version or HK release and not the Japan release.

DreadstarCybph wrote:I'am aware of those ko G1 toys. And again, to my knowledge, Takara does use parts of other toys on toys they deemed fit to use it.

The current one out could be a Asia version or HK release and not the Japan release.

You're being too optimistic here. If that were true, we would have caught wind of that even before their release via the site sponsors.

As for the parts, give me at least one example of an original sharing at least one retooled part with its retool (like Sideswipe having, in essence, Tigertrack's noggin).

So guys, will there be an authentic second production run by Takara for sure?

Do they have a site, facebook page, twitter, anything where they make announcements like this?

Cyberpath wrote:So guys, will there be an authentic second production run by Takara for sure?

Do they have a site, facebook page, twitter, anything where they make announcements like this?

BBTS has announced it, a very reputable site sponsor.

DreadstarCybph wrote:I learned from a friend about a KO mp sideswipe. I eventually did my own online research on the matter, and the forums/sites ended up pointing to taobao as the source. Taobao is an auction site. People can list prices their way down the market price to scam people just like they do on ebay. Taobao is notorious for that if you are not careful.

I checked out the other sites that forum/sites pointed to. They also ended up at Taobao. Many of those are pre-orders. the 100 yuan to 200 yuan down are pre order payment. None refundable if you cancelled. They will charge you the remaining balance once the item comes in before they ship it to you.

Differences in the heads. As a manufacturer , If I want a slight adjustment when the parts (evil eyes head sideswipe) is out of stock already, I'll put in the head part of what ever I have on hand. It just happens to be the red alert head because I have an extra run of it made for tiger tracks laying around. Also just because a manufacturer made a slight adjustment to sticker doesn't even mean its a ko.

The hologram sticker difference. same reasoning as above. The old rainbow type sticker run out. So they made a new one. Logical reasoning/proof: check your cellphone's battery. Nokia has at least 2 versions out in hologram stickers. one with the hand , another with the the word "nokia". both security stickers are originals. Nobody crying one sticker proves it real and the other different sticker is a fake. Same with Bandai Saint Seiya Myth Figures. Japan local release has a different local hologram foil sticker on the box than those being release elsewhere in Asia. You don't see people crying knock offs just because of it.

Back in the 80's to 90's - slight color differentiation, slight mold adjustment are expected during a production run . could be from mold degradation to the upper execs wanting it to look better. Its toys,people - not food. So slight adjustments, tweaking here and there are normal . Yet they are all considered as originals. These days, a slight adjustment happens and people shout like hell its a bloody knock off! sheesh....

I held a lot of Kos in my life time. I buy, collect and also get them for friends. The suppose KO MP12 in my opinion,versus the evidence at hand, (and I hope you guys can respect that,) is not a KO, but just a modified sideswipe with a new head.

Erm, nope.
Companies don't do that anymore, British companies used to do that during the 60s till 80s, but not anymore. It's asign of bad craftsmanship and low quality. In this day and age that no-longer works, the parts thing or using different packaging.

If this where a non-Japanese variant we would have known already. Please supply us with examples of Transformers ever using parts that have simply been left over from a different toy. You won't, since every mold has all its parts. Or you know supply us with your sources, because right now you sound like a certain someone I've had a couple of run ins before who wanted us to believe the most outlandish stuff with no evidence or sources at all only that he had done "extensive research".

These days, modern toys ..like DOTM tomahawk , DOTM vortex then the GDO Springer - different heads but all shared the same body.

I checked the sites which that chinese forum pointed to - which for some strange reason, I don't know who translated what with what, that he ended up with a translation that was saying its a knock off . I can read chinese and price on the site, stated it was a non refunadable downpayment for the toy. and once it arrives, subsequent amounts will be charged to him before it will be shipped.

I think, the only guys who can clarify this is the people at Takara Tomy. Whether indeed there is a KO MP12 sideswipe out in the market. After all. I might be wrong ^_^

Btw, I'm not that guy, whoever he is. what was he trying to convince you guys with?

I'm just stating my own conclusions that I arrived to when I followed up the sites they pointed as the source of their news which ended up in Taobao. Now if their news ended up at a reputable store site well known for selling class a knock offs, I will immediately say the news of ko sideswipe is 100% true. But it ended up in Taobao. Taobao is a auction/"buy it now" site like ebay. Taobao has original and ko tfs being sold by different members.

my source: The local TF sites in my country are pointing to the American TF sites as source. The American TF sites (both selling and forums) are pointing to the Chinese Toy Forum . The Chinese Toy Forum site pointed towards Taobao. I checked the posting which states pre order / down payment. I didn't use a translator. I can read Chinese. I'm a 2nd generation Chinese living in the Philippines. Born and grew up here. So let's not conclude that I'm some devious mastermind living somewhere trying to convince the tf community that there is no KO MP sideswipe shall we. I'm just not convinced at the moment. I might be wrong.

DreadstarCybph wrote:These days, modern toys ..like DOTM tomahawk , DOTM vortex then the GDO Springer - different heads but all shared the same body.

That's called a repainted retool, hardly the same as re-releasing a toy as a second run with the head of its repaint. By going by that logic Generations Sandstorm would be a reissue of Springer and still be Springer.

DreadstarCybph wrote:These days, modern toys ..like DOTM tomahawk , DOTM vortex then the GDO Springer - different heads but all shared the same body.

As stated before, they're retools, not what I was going for. More like "the original having parts of his retool while it's not supposed to".

And Auction Sites are not a reliable source for toy info, just for toys themselves. We can usually deduce what the toy's supposed to be (like that BotCon Sandstorm earlier), but that MP Lambor has too many things that are off for it to be a legit variant. Plus, we haven't heard of any additional runs aside from the 2nd which is supposed to hit the end of the year and all figures in the first run are assembled the same way.

So we're cautious on this guy, given the info we have.