Comparison review between Henkei Thundercracker and the KO.

kirbenvost wrote:It's unfortunate that the KO is better quality than the real deal... but at least there are ways to tell, as difficult as they may be to spot in-package. Thanks for the information!

Pretty ironic, isn't it?

I'm playing with the idea of buying these, so I could display these instead of my real ones and protect those from damage, especially TC keeps falling over.

G1Sizzle wrote:Since I bought two of the KO Henkei TCs, people have been asking me to review them so they'll know whether or not to purchase them. Here goes!

Thanks a bunch for that!

The most distinctive bits (or, at least, the easiest to distinguish in photos) seem to me to be the subtle notches affecting the shoulder and kneecap paint apps.

Any chance you have the packaging around to compare as well?

G1Sizzle wrote:Since I bought two of the KO Henkei TCs, people have been asking me to review them so they'll know whether or not to purchase them. Here goes!

Outstanding work!

Is that...silver paint replacing the gaudy chrome? If so, I'm sold! Personally, I don't mind using KO's as a TEMPORARY substitute for figs that either I can't currently afford, or Has/Tak has yet to release.

Kudos to G1Sizzle! A very thorough and informative review. Much appreciated.

Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

It's merely for educational purposes, giving ways to tell the fake from the real deal. First one to do so.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

It's merely for educational purposes, giving ways to tell the fake from the real deal. First one to do so.

That would be true if it was just showing the comparisions but the article is clearly a review as well, if it was just a comparisions they that would be fine but since it is also a review that says that people should buy them if they can't get the offical ones that is the problem

So, the reason you can tell the difference is because the KO doesn't suck as much as the original?

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

Really now...

What's so hard to understand about the situation?

1. Hey, there's KO figures out there.

2. Here's a review of said KO figures, turns out that the quality is comparible to the originals. Buyer beward.

3. End of transmission.

Insert the following comments to suit your taste:

A. KO figures are made of pure evil from the deepest bowels of hell. Buying them infects countless Hasbro employees with herpes. Don't do it or you'll be haunted by the Ghost of Michael Jackson.

B. KO figures are super awesome. Just because you didn't go to BotCon over three years ago, and just because you passed on the open availability of the Henkei seekers doesn't mean that you shouldn't have everything you've ever wanted all the time 100%. Buy buy buy.

Counterpunch wrote:B. KO figures are super awesome. Just because you didn't go to BotCon over three years ago, and just because you passed on the open availability of the Henkei seekers doesn't mean that you shouldn't have everything you've ever wanted all the time 100%. Buy buy buy.

This.

It's funny though. Even with the new found availability of these high quality KOs, I still wont be able to afford them. Partially due to the fact that I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those), but mostly because my mom is going into surgery soon.

Ah well, 'you win some, but you loose more often than not.'

Vicalliose wrote:I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those)

Only because I'm curious: Which ones did you buy? High quality ones, or ones on cheapo blister cards?

It Is Him wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those)

Only because I'm curious: Which ones did you buy? High quality ones, or ones on cheapo blister cards?

Ok, so they're not all broken, but as useless as they are to me now they might as well be.

I got them from KO toys, I don't blame them, I should have spent more time thinking about it.

They're not THAT terrible, but I still regret the purchase. One was a Classics Bumblebee whos wheel broke off, the other was a Classics Prime that has the arm kibble broken off, and a Megatron to re-paint gray but the foot broke off. I also got a Thrust Ramjet to repaint into Dirge, but we all know what happened in that case. I got two other primes with them that aren't broken, but better versions have been seen since then.

Just wish I'd waited until I saw these to spend 50 bucks on KOs.

*edit* Aw jeez. It took me this long to realize I messed that up?

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

I posted it on the front page as a means for people to check if the toy they're buying is real or a KO. Since the review was completely integrated into the comparison it was impossible to just post the comparison by itself without destroying the original posters work.
I had second thoughts about posting it, due to it also being a review, but decided to do so anyway since as you can see from this thread there where a lot of concerns as how to identify the KO from the real deal so that people don't overpay and get stuck with a copy.

It's also not the first time we posted something like this, and it won't be the last ether. Especially since 3 of these KOs here are of extremely rare and pricey figures. So the moment someone posts a comparison of those it will get posted, even if it contains a review.

Damn bootleggers!

I demand they sell their bootlegs all over the world, not just in Japan!

(I hate exclusivity of figures)

My review was meant to serve two purposes:

1. To answer the question "Are these KOs high quality or garbage?"

2. To let people know how they can determine whether or not what they have bought or are about to buy is KO.

I am in no way endorsing or condemning the practice of bootlegging. I do buy bootlegs from time to time. I almost have to, because I live in China, and the supply of legit products here is scarce. If someone chooses not to buy KOs or bootlegs, then I would think this review would be helpful to them also. And it's helpful to those who do, because they can make wise decisions about spending their money. Obviously, I already had a legit original. I bought this one as a curiosity.

I do think that these particular bootlegs bear paying special attention to them. This is the first time we're seeing high quality, if not equal quality bootlegs being made of not only modern toys, but high-priced exclusives. These are not just the G1 KOs, which have several distinctions that mark them as fake. These are near perfect duplicates of exclusives that a lot of people are going to be fooled by.

By the way, I have noticed from pictures of the KO Skywarp that the same notching differences in the shoulder and knee exist. So this TC review should also be helpful in distinguishing fake Skywarps too.

Hi guys , there is another KO-thundercracker on sell in china .


Check it here http://bbs.actoys.net/read.php?tid-540737.html
(see the whole thread)


That one is much better at details and quality(comparing with the old KO version).
As you can see , a "CHMS" logo is carved on its leg .

Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

funklizard wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.

I gotta disagree with you buddy. Whats not cool is the people who made the decision to let the Henkei Thundercracker become a victim of inflation and greed. No matter what politics or business stratagies were behind the decision, alot of people were denied a chance to own a classic mainstream G1 character. This is a chance to spread the love and give collectors of all incomes a chance to enjoy this figure.

I too bought the Henkei Thundercracker and Skywarp for $100 bucks each. But Im not complaining that sombody almost exactly duplicated my figure. I applaud it. Sometimes patience is a virtue. The people who held out are getting rewarded for their patience. But the people like me and you who "had to have it" learned a valueble lesson about patience. If I had known about these guys being available in November, I wouldnt have bought the Henkeis back in June at Botcon. I could care less about a little indent in the shoulder. In reality the figure is going to sit on a display shelf and look cool. I could have had the figures and saved $150 to use for something else. Wish I had known, but life goes on.


I mean no disrespect, I just feel KO Toys needs to be applauded for bringing the product to the people instead of excuses.

84forever wrote:Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

WTF are you talking about Mr. 2posts? Take your hate someplace else, talk to the elbow cuz the hand doesn't want to listen anymore.

I've bought from KOtoys.com before without problem, that's including KOLD Prime and Starscream. After reading this comparison, I bought the Ghost, Thundercracker, and Rainmakers(whom I will try to paint to be a touch more screen accurate). In case you wanted to tell me I'm "Robin Hooding" Hasbro/Takara, I already own 2 complete Games of Deception box sets, 2 each of Acidstorm, Starscream, and the other Starscream. 1 each of Thrust, Skywarp, Ramjet, Henkei Thrust-Dirge-Starscream-Thundercracker-Ramjet-Skywarp, and Gentei Ghost Starscream. And a whopping 4 each of Generations Thrust and Dirge.

I'm getting these KO figures for display(in Ghost SS's case) and to act as place holders (in the Rainmakers/Thundercracker's case). When Hasbro releases Thundercracker, I'll buy a shitload. Seriously. While they drag their feet, however, this KO Thundercracker will do nicely.

Rated X wrote:

funklizard wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.

I gotta disagree with you buddy. Whats not cool is the people who made the decision to let the Henkei Thundercracker become a victim of inflation and greed. No matter what politics or business stratagies were behind the decision, alot of people were denied a chance to own a classic mainstream G1 character. This is a chance to spread the love and give collectors of all incomes a chance to enjoy this figure.

I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from. The problem I have is with the potential for these counterfeits to be sold as the real thing. The packaging goes so far as to misappropriate the TakaraTomy logo.

I have no problem with a cheaper alternative existing. I have no problem with the cheaper alternative being of good quality. What I have a problem with is trying to fool people into thinking that they're getting the real thing—and it looks like these cross that line.

(Notably, the KO that Goemon points out does not misappropriate the TakaraTomy logo and I don't have the same problem with it.)

And to be clear, I'm not accusing KO Toys of trying to fool people. They've clearly and accurately labelled these items on their site. But it is certainly my impression that the producer of these items is trying to fool people. And it seems all too easy for it to fall into the hands of sellers who want to participate in the deception as well as those who are deceived themselves.

I too bought the Henkei Thundercracker and Skywarp for $100 bucks each. But Im not complaining that sombody almost exactly duplicated my figure. I applaud it. Sometimes patience is a virtue. The people who held out are getting rewarded for their patience. But the people like me and you who "had to have it" learned a valueble lesson about patience. If I had known about these guys being available in November, I wouldnt have bought the Henkeis back in June at Botcon. I could care less about a little indent in the shoulder. In reality the figure is going to sit on a display shelf and look cool. I could have had the figures and saved $150 to use for something else. Wish I had known, but life goes on.

Suppose for a minute that you do care about these details and you were purchasing these online today. Or a few months from now when these counterfeits have had plenty of time to circulate. Would the existence of these counterfeits give you pause and make you wonder if you were actually getting what was advertised?

84forever wrote:Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

I didn't buy this from Mike. I bought it off Taobao before KOToys ever stocked it.

Seriously, you need to get over trying to extort KOToys for more toys. Mike gave you your money back for your Rainmakers that you decided to take apart and that you broke, because apparently you figure there's no difference between a toy and a display piece. You got your money back. You are out NOTHING. Get over it.

KO Toys is NOT the manufacturer of the KO Henkei TC, SW or Ghost SS. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly who manufactures these. KOToys and chimungmung are not making these; they are merely retailing them.

Ignore 84forever. He's a jerkoff from TFW2005 who is pissed because he paid $100 for KOToys Rainmakers, got them, took them apart and broke them, GOT HIS MONEY REFUNDED WITHOUT RETURNING THE ITEMS and is mad because KOToys will not give him free toys.

He got "ripped off" by getting his money refunded in full while KOToys is out a full set of Rainmakers. Yeah...really ripped off...

Hey G1Sizzle, I too was wondering about the chrome/silver part on the launchers. Is it chrome or is it silver paint? I'm just wondering how it would look in comparison to other Classics/Universe figures rather than the Henkei versions

G1Sizzle wrote:My review was meant to serve two purposes:

1. To answer the question "Are these KOs high quality or garbage?"

2. To let people know how they can determine whether or not what they have bought or are about to buy is KO.

I am in no way endorsing or condemning the practice of bootlegging. I do buy bootlegs from time to time. I almost have to, because I live in China, and the supply of legit products here is scarce. If someone chooses not to buy KOs or bootlegs, then I would think this review would be helpful to them also. And it's helpful to those who do, because they can make wise decisions about spending their money. Obviously, I already had a legit original. I bought this one as a curiosity.

I do think that these particular bootlegs bear paying special attention to them. This is the first time we're seeing high quality, if not equal quality bootlegs being made of not only modern toys, but high-priced exclusives. These are not just the G1 KOs, which have several distinctions that mark them as fake. These are near perfect duplicates of exclusives that a lot of people are going to be fooled by.

By the way, I have noticed from pictures of the KO Skywarp that the same notching differences in the shoulder and knee exist. So this TC review should also be helpful in distinguishing fake Skywarps too.

I understand where you are coming from, maybe doing just the comparisons would be better, and then doing the review separate.

0ptimus Prime wrote:Hey G1Sizzle, I too was wondering about the chrome/silver part on the launchers. Is it chrome or is it silver paint? I'm just wondering how it would look in comparison to other Classics/Universe figures rather than the Henkei versions

It's really difficult to say. It's got a chrome shine, but it's a bit duller than the Henkei version. It's not as "chromey"--for lack of a better word--as Ghost Henkei Starscream KO.

You asked how it would look with other Classics/Universe figures. Well, it's sitting in my collection of Seekers right now. (I'm up to 14 now.) It seems to blend fairly well, at least as well as Generations Thrust's chromed cockpit.

The good thing about these are for those of us who want to open some toys for display. I cringe at the thought of paying upwards of 80 bucks to tear open the package when I get home. I appreciate the review and it seems that they are so similar, it is a great deal. I went online and bought the whole seeker set (SW, TC, and Ghost SS) for 60 bucks. They will sit just fine with my opened authentic SS.

Starscream5150 wrote:The good thing about these are for those of us who want to open some toys for display. I cringe at the thought of paying upwards of 80 bucks to tear open the package when I get home. I appreciate the review and it seems that they are so similar, it is a great deal. I went online and bought the whole seeker set (SW, TC, and Ghost SS) for 60 bucks. They will sit just fine with my opened authentic SS.

I've spent upwards of like 140$ on one figure and totally removed it from packaging, I just carefuly remove it and save the packaging if it isn't a clamshell monstrosity or an easily devastated blister card..

Yeah, I removed Henkei TC from its packaging, which is why I unfortunately don't have the original packaging to compare for this.

I just can't stand leaving them in their little plastic coffins!

Nah, mate, I only drop 99$ in the first fifteen minutes.

And here is a look at KO Botcon Mirage. I don't have an actual Botcon Mirage to compare him to, but I do have Classics Mirage, Fracture and Drag Strip. All of these molds appear to be alike, so I will be pointing out where KO BC Mirage differs from these molds. This will again be one half review, and one half tutorial.



Here he is next to Classics Mirage. As you can see, the reproduction is 1:1. He's reproduced part-for-part. There don't appear to be any shortcuts taken in this KO. All parts are clear blue plastic with the following exceptions: the ball joint that the head is on, the biceps, the two inner parts of the torso, and the part that connects the thigh and the calf.



I should apologize right off the bat for these pictures not being clearer. My camera is a simple digital camera and isn't made for high quality photos. This is the first difference I noticed between the KO and all the other Mirage molds I own. In the solid piece between the thigh and calf, there are markings. On the KO, there are 2 straight horizontal lines. On the other Mirage molds, there are 3 slanted lines.



Also on the legs, on the upper part of the thigh, there are air intake vents right where the exhaust pipes fold up in bot mode. The KO has 3 vents. The original mold has 4.



I'm not certain if this next difference is also present on the real Botcon Mirage, so maybe somebody who has it can let us know. If you look on the KO BC Mirage's shin, there is a lot of detailing that is not present on Classics Mirage, Drag Strip or Fracture. Also, the dead giveaway is the rubsign. KO BC Mirage has no rubsign.



There is a seam on the outside of the forearm of each Mirage-mold figure. On Mirage, Fracture and Drag Strip, this seem perfectly bisects a detail, making it essentially look like teeth. The legit molds have the seam running straight down the middle. The KO does not. It's rather widely off center.



Here's one that's really easy to spot. The screws on KO BC Mirage are smaller than the screws in any of its mold-mates. The holes are obviously meant for larger screws, but smaller ones are used.



Oopsie! Don't worry too much, though. This is not actually broken. It's just a place in the torso that can be detached. All the other versions of this mold have this too. The reason I point it out is that the one on the KO slides out really easily. It showed up in my mailbox split in two, and it also fell out while I was fiddling with it. The legit figures have never done this for me.

This picture also showcases one of the dealbreakers for this figure, in my eyes. The KO BC Mirage I received cannot hold his gun. The peg on the crossbow is simply larger than the one in his fists. I couldn't get it to peg in on either fist. So when KO BC Mirage transforms, he's going to be weaponless, sadly.



And here they all are together. As you can see, KO BC Mirage does fit in to the classics collection, as long as you don't look closely.

QUALITY: Sadly, Mirage does not live up to the high quality of the Henkei seekers. He's floppy for one thing. His joints are not tight at all. The plastic quality also doesn't feel up to snuff. I realize this is clear plastic, but the Henkei Ghost Starscream KO felt a LOT sturdier than this guy. The looseness of the figure hinders his ability to achieve all the great poses the original Mirage could achieve. Additionally, as I mentioned, he tends to come apart at the waist, and he cannot hold his weapon.

PACKAGING: There is none. No bag, no card. Er go, one of the simplest ways to ensure you are getting a REAL Botcon Mirage is to purchase one bagged. So far, anyway.

One more thing: I don't know if this is true for all of them, but there was a flaw on my KO BC Mirage's face that stemmed from it being improperly removed from the sprue.

In summary, this is only a figure to get if you are planning to get a real one in the future and want it as a placeholder. This will be really easy to spot as a fake in person. If you buy it on eBay or another online source, be sure to get close-up pictures of it. If you want it because you can't afford a Botcon figure, that's fine, but realize you're getting something that is lower than Hasbro quality.

G1Sizzle wrote:By the way, I have noticed from pictures of the KO Skywarp that the same notching differences in the shoulder and knee exist. So this TC review should also be helpful in distinguishing fake Skywarps too.

Yes, it did, sadly.

I got sold what I'm pretty damn sure is a KO Skywarp as the Real Thing. The notches on the shoulders and knees are absent. And I can't say I agree about the quality of these KOs, as there are some other flaws:

• The chrome paint on the launchers is inconsistent and somewhat marbled.
• The places where the plastic pieces were broken away from the injection point is readily visible in several places that stick out more than you'd typically find on a TakaraTomy or Hasbro figure.
• The bottom of one of the legs has "mold seepage" that wasn't cut away.
• Some joints are ridiculously tight, while others are very loose.
• He's got an upside-down left fist for a right fist.

Finally, I do have what I'm pretty confident is an authentic Henkei Thundercracker to compare to. The packaging on these two is practically indistinguishable (except for the bits you'd expect to be different; e.g., the blue-printed front matter on TC's package). Holding the backing cards side-by-side, you can tell that there is a slight degradation in the quality of the photos on KO Skywarp's card. But it's really subtle. In other words, if you don't know what you have in your hand, it's almost impossible to tell for sure without taking it out of the package. So I definitely have sympathy for sellers who sell these items as authentic because they got taken in themselves. On the other hand, I do expect anyone to stand behind what he's selling.

I've contacted the seller in this instance, so we'll see where it goes. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of doubt.

I hate to post this a little late in the game, but just thought someone might be interested.

I just bought and received my KO Thundercracker. The packaging didn't have the Tomy Takara logo and the plastic blister didn't have Transformers embossed, but rather the KO creator's name. The rest of the packaging looks identical. It also came with the instruction manual w/ the Tomy Takara logo and a figure card.
The figure on the other hand is different from the one used in the comparison. My KO has the notches and everything in the same spots as the Henkei. The only similarity I can see from my figure and the photos are the off-center Decepticon logos on the wings and the darker red pin stripping.
And as the review said, my figure is solid and decent quality, only his left hand is loose as hell and a few joint/paint scuffs.

I hate to admit it but I hope someone makes a KO Shattered Glass Rodimus.

funklizard wrote:I got sold what I'm pretty damn sure is a KO Skywarp as the Real Thing.
⋮
I've contacted the seller in this instance, so we'll see where it goes. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of doubt.

Just to follow up on this…

This, fortunately, had a happy ending. The seller accepted a return of the item and I got a full refund. The seller indicated that he'd been taken in; and I think that's entirely credible. As I've said, it's extremely difficult to identify this counterfeit without opening the package.

Roxxstar wrote:I just bought and received my KO Thundercracker. The packaging didn't have the Tomy Takara logo and the plastic blister didn't have Transformers embossed, but rather the KO creator's name. The rest of the packaging looks identical. It also came with the instruction manual w/ the Tomy Takara logo and a figure card.
The figure on the other hand is different from the one used in the comparison. My KO has the notches and everything in the same spots as the Henkei. The only similarity I can see from my figure and the photos are the off-center Decepticon logos on the wings and the darker red pin stripping.
And as the review said, my figure is solid and decent quality, only his left hand is loose as hell and a few joint/paint scuffs.

It does appear that there are two KO molds and packaging out there. What appears to be the less accurate of the two molds (that is, without the notches on the knees and shoulders) is the one that has the nearly-identical packaging.

There is one distinct thing I noted about the packaging on the knock-off I received: the twist-ties were clipped very close to where they were twisted together with no excess to speak of. You can see this without opening the packaging. My experience with Hasbro and TakaraTomy packaging has been that there is some excess tie to grab and untwist it. I don't know if this will, in fact, indicate a knock-off 100% of the time; but seeing it again would definitely give me pause.

Nemesis251 wrote:I hate to admit it but I hope someone makes a KO Shattered Glass Rodimus.

I frequent the KOtoys forums often and i can confirm that they are working on 1.. As well as a Shattered glass prime and Toxitron..

My personal Opinion is this. If you knowingly visit and purchase items from a Site called KOTOYS, you should know you are getting a KO..It has been my experience in the purchasing transformers world that if a deal is too good to be true..It probably is. I know if I see a Shattered glass Optimus prime on sale on ebay for a Buy it now of $150...It's total bullshit..No way any collector or retailer would sell that figure for such a low price..But a scalper knows he can swindle a unknowing and impatient collector for a cool $150..

I purchase items from KOtoys failry regulary and they have always met my expectations. Someone mentioned that they make figures available for those who can't justify dropping$ 100 on a single figure only to display them out of package and I say bravo. If they make a good copy of SG Prime and Rodimus, Im all over it. No way I could afford dropping $500 on either of those, but say, $60? I can handle that.

I applaud those who make the comparison witht he KO and the Original. They keep the shady SOB's out of the money and scratching their heads which is great..

sorry if this is mindless rambling..I'z tireDZ!

LiKwid wrote:

Nemesis251 wrote:I hate to admit it but I hope someone makes a KO Shattered Glass Rodimus.

I frequent the KOtoys forums often and i can confirm that they are working on 1.. As well as a Shattered glass prime and Toxitron..

My personal Opinion is this. If you knowingly visit and purchase items from a Site called KOTOYS, you should know you are getting a KO..It has been my experience in the purchasing transformers world that if a deal is too good to be true..It probably is. I know if I see a Shattered glass Optimus prime on sale on ebay for a Buy it now of $150...It's total bullshit..No way any collector or retailer would sell that figure for such a low price..But a scalper knows he can swindle a unknowing and impatient collector for a cool $150..

I purchase items from KOtoys failry regulary and they have always met my expectations. Someone mentioned that they make figures available for those who can't justify dropping$ 100 on a single figure only to display them out of package and I say bravo. If they make a good copy of SG Prime and Rodimus, Im all over it. No way I could afford dropping $500 on either of those, but say, $60? I can handle that.

I applaud those who make the comparison witht he KO and the Original. They keep the shady SOB's out of the money and scratching their heads which is great..

Thanks! You must have been reading my mind. My thoughts exactly.

All I have to say is that the KO CHMS version of Thundercracker is Astonishing ! The only major drawback that I could find was that the eyes are painted over the face instead of being a notch themselves. All and All is very, very Nice!

for me this is a good find I was wondering how I will do my seeker collection when this go for 100+ is crazy money hope I get them soon

hopefully these 3rd party KO companies do a botcon 2011 SG Galvatron for around $25. because I can't afford the secondary market prices

Hate to say this but I am actually happier with the product quality of the KO over the real deal. I have no regrets at all buying the KO version of these guys. I helped fill my bros missing Skywarp spot and finally got a ghost screamer. I actually recommend the KO for 2 reasons
1) Save cash obviously
2) Tighter joints and an overall better construction job on the KO versions.

Shinobitron wrote:2) Tighter joints and an overall better construction job on the KO versions.

Since when?

I love those high quality diecast metal KO Binaltech toys. if it wasn't for the over seas shipping fees that cost around $15. I would have bought a bunch if their were some sellers in america selling these.

The diecast metal ko binaltech toys that interest me is as follows:
that sunstreaker molds turned into movie verse Barricade with the police lights & decals on the toy. that sunsreaker mold in the white colors with the red racing decals on it because it looks like a decent DRIFT toy.

robofreak wrote:

Shinobitron wrote:2) Tighter joints and an overall better construction job on the KO versions.

Since when?

I've heard this to actually be the case with many of the Henkei seekers vs the CHMS version II KOs. But that's definitely an exception...

Kibble wrote:

robofreak wrote:

Shinobitron wrote:2) Tighter joints and an overall better construction job on the KO versions.

Since when?

I've heard this to actually be the case with many of the Henkei seekers vs the CHMS version II KOs. But that's definitely an exception...

This is the case only with Henkei Thundercracker, since quality on that toy was pretty damn low. All others are about the same quality as the original toy except for KO Henkei Starscream.

I have never has better construction on my KO Seekers than on my official ones. Mold issues on the face aside, the hands are a bitch to get out of the arms, one foot on my Sunstorm doesn't fold all the way down, and the Sunstorm (again) didn't have his nosecone fit snugly into his body (had to sand down the peg it collapses into myself to fix this issue). The hand issue is especially bad on any Seeker with painted hands as the paint was scrapped off on mine in my attempt to transform him.

And this is just on the CMS stuff. The older KO Seeker mold is worse.

Of course maybe I lucked out on all of my official Seekers, but I find the hype on the CMS Seeker overblown. They're good, but ... not official quality.

G1Sizzle wrote:KO Toys is NOT the manufacturer of the KO Henkei TC, SW or Ghost SS. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly who manufactures these. KOToys and chimungmung are not making these; they are merely retailing them.

Ignore 84forever. He's a jerkoff from TFW2005 who is pissed because he paid $100 for KOToys Rainmakers, got them, took them apart and broke them, GOT HIS MONEY REFUNDED WITHOUT RETURNING THE ITEMS and is mad because KOToys will not give him free toys.

He got "ripped off" by getting his money refunded in full while KOToys is out a full set of Rainmakers. Yeah...really ripped off...

Just found this.

The KOLD Rainmakers broke at every joint when I attempted to pose them. I never asked for my money back because $100 wasn't worth the wait, time or effort. KOTOYS, with the exception of Thundercracker, stocked 99% garbage at the time this thread was created. I would never ask for free garbage. I was then supposedly blacklisted from buying from KOTOYS and Daelite's Aces toy store after this. I had no idea I was blacklisted because I went on to buy many CHMS seekers and other classics/generations/RTS items from these sellers.