Peter Cullen and Garry Chalk Chimed In on Netflix Series' Voice Acting and Business Practices

I didn't know the reason the NETFLIX show didn't use Peter Cullen and Frank Welker was due to essentially cost-cutting and not using Union talent. That kind of sucks. They don't even make it seem like it would have cost them a whole lot more.

I'm sorry if what I'm going to write upsets anyone, but I can't take much more bad Transformers fiction whether it's comics or cartoons.

In defense of Rescue Bots, I haven't seen much outside of season 1 (and possibly season 2). It was good, it just wasn't for me.

Cyberverse wasn't for me either, but I respect the opinions of some people that have liked it, so I'll just chalk it up to it not being my thing. Though I'd argue that the terrible Bumblebee radio voice at the beginning at the attention-deficit appealing 11-minute episode format was very off-putting to me as well as some other aspects, but again, not everything Transformers related has to be for me.

However, the NETFLIX Transformers Wars for Cybertron series is intended for people like me. It's supposed to be a dark show that tells the origin of the Transformers. It has, without a doubt, some of the worst directed acting I've ever heard in Transformers. The acting and pacing of their lines is so agonizingly slow that it's extremely challenging to even watch the show, despite some amazing animation. Somehow, it's even worse than the Prime Wars Trilogy voice direction. I'm not blaming the actors, some of whom I personally know, all of whom are excellent with their craft (and I was really impressed with Jason Marnocha's Megatron in the Prime Wars Trilogy so how that awesomeness got lost between series is beyond me, though Frank Todaro's Starscream remains an enjoyable homage to Chris Latta's and is one of the few voices that don't seem to suffer t h e e x t r e m e l y s l o w p a c i n g w h i c h r e m i n d s m e o f t h e s l o t h f r o m Z o o t o p i a.



It seems to be a problem with the directing, which is really unfortunate. I don't know as much about the animation business as I would like, but Transformers cartoons should be the pinnacle of Transformers fiction (and maybe one could argue the comics because at different times I have looked to either of them as the flagship fiction). I don't mind the story line, it's just the torturous slow pace of the Transformers talking that takes away from the experience for me. Watching a Transformers cartoon that is aimed at an older audience shouldn't be a chore to watch.

One last thing ... Transformers don't need to ever say the word "ass". I was really disappointed to see that word slip through. Afterburner, tail pipe, rear fender ... are all much more clever word choices for Transformers to say.

The animation is pretty good. I have a few gripes, but they're fairly minor. I'm not a fan of the "fluid" torsos that make the robot parts look like they are "stretching" like human skin as the torso moves. It looks weird and isn't how Transformers should move. Most of the robots look great. It looks like our toys walked right off the screen in many instances. While I'm not a fan of the pronounced lips on some of the characters, at least it's an artistic choice that some characters have but others don't. And the ones that do have it have different lips (i.e. Bumblebee and Megatron). For some reason, I don't mind it on Megatron's face, but Bumblebee's look really weird (though so does his entire head design for some reason). And why aren't Jetfire's eyes red when he's a Decepticon? Seems like an oversight ...

After having looked forward to this for the past year, I am very disappointed and disheartened by the show so far. The disappointing trailers showed everything we unfortunately needed to know.

Can't believe that I even have to write any of the above 3 episodes in to a series that is supposed to last another year or so until the War for Cybertron Trilogy is completed.

Spend some money on some good voice directors! If there's not enough dialogue to fill the length of the episodes, than write some more. Please!!!

Hopefully, the upcoming NETFLIX Masters of the Universe show with it's amazing voice cast is a much more enjoyable show to watch and has a good set of directors working on it.

Transformers Prime remains the last Transformers cartoon that I really enjoyed. Preceded by Transformers Animated and Beast Wars before that (again, because of the acting mostly, though Cullen's Optimus Prime was way overdone in Transformers Prime).

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Just really bummed.

EDIT: Apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way: https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ces/45076/ (though Garry Chalk isn't one to talk after the poor voice acting, again mostly due to directing or writing issues, in the Unicron Trilogy cartoons)

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:You should never meet your heroes
As the old saying goes.

As far as negativity goes, it is a completely average show with some bad bits (mostly audio related). I've read comments elsewhere of people proclaiming the show as "awesome" which is equally mind blowing. Obviously different strokes for different folks. But there is nothing I saw in this show that is worthy of that high a logical assessment. Shows of the past have had truly awesome moments, even Sunbow. But what was there in this show that was that exciting and/or captivating?

I think unrealistic, blinkered praise can be just as damaging as vocal negativity. That's the kind of thing that gives popularity to the mediocre. Because those behind it don't think there is anything to change or improve.

You didn't like it. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

I thought it was pretty good. As good as Sunbow? Heck no. There were story choices made I didn't like. The voice acting is definitely problematic in spaces, but I put that down to voice direction. I could think of plenty of things I didn't like, yet none of them overshadow the overall experience of the show, which to me was positive. This was NOT Prime Wars Trilogy. I categorically oppose the idea it's somehow 'worse' than that. It's a retelling that delves fairly effectively into the war that started it all (again). Now that I've seen the comments Cullen and Welker have made, and having seen them, I have a far more negative opinion of the show in a meta way than I did just on watching the show itself.

I suppose it comes down to what the "bar" is supposed to be. The expectations that I have are probably lower than what many people who are fans of the fiction are expecting. Probably something along the lines of Transformers: Prime, but I think Prime had a far higher budget than this feature.

I'm hoping the next chapters are better directed. We'll see. I'm going to watch it either way.

I don't call that "blinkered praise" at all. Do you?

So... Disowned Adaptation trope confirmed?

Aimless Misfire wrote:And characters getting killed early on? If they want to kill characters just make up a new one that nobody cares about, like Maxima. I hated how they killed Cliffjumper in Prime & Bumblebee. What if some of us actually want to see that character in action for a while?

Though I don't agree with you about the origin retelling. It's actually the first time G1 has been retold as a proper G1 retelling, despite the many revamps over the years. I'm excited about it as well as seeing some of the back story before we get to Earth. It's the slow pace of the acting that's makes it a chore to watch.

Many of your points are spot-on Ryan thank you so much. Although I probably did enjoy the series a bit more than you it seems. The voice acting was off, but to me it seemed like it was actually an improvement over Prime Wars just me I guess. A lot of loud whispering I call it, for some reason. However a lot of things seem to improve over Prime Wars and I hope that it gets better with Earthrise.

o.supreme wrote:Many of your points are spot-on Ryan thank you so much. Although I probably did enjoy the series a bit more than you it seems. The voice acting was off, but to me it seemed like it was actually an improvement over Prime Wars just me I guess. A lot of loud whispering I call it, for some reason. However a lot of things seem to improve over Prime Wars and I hope that it gets better with Earthrise.

I don't think I'd call it an improvement. The acting seems about on par with the exception of a few who are worse off like Megatron. The animation is night and day better, but the voice acting leaves much to be desired (again, presumably because of the voice directors or writers or whoever is to blame other than the talented voice actors who are just doing the job they're told to do).

I just finished the last episode, here's my thoughts on it:

Ok, first off, when they scan Bee, Arcee, and Cog for weapons they don't find anything and let them through.

COG.

The dude literally made out of weapons with several barrels sticking prominently out of his arms was not found with any weapons on him.

Anyway, onto the actual thoughts. It's more of a bulleted list than a review, but here they are:

- I was basically expecting something on par with the Prime Wars trilogy, and well. . . it was better than that. Not great, but it was entertaining. The last 3 episodes, particularly episode 4, were the better of the bunch IMO

- The voices were kinda all over the place and most of the lines were just really slow, the short pauses in between words were really jarring. Megatron's low voice kinda worked with that, though.

- The stuff with Ratchet and Impactor was good, and honestly they were the only characters with anything interesting going on. I get that it's supposed to be war and gritty but that doesn't mean that your characters can't have personality, just look at the much better War for Cybertron/ Fall of Cybertron, which still has a fairly dark tone but with likable characters, fun dialogue, and personality.

- Bumblebee's bit with the Alpha Trion protocols was actually really cool, but then Shockwave wipes them. What was all that for then? I get it was to find the allspark, but what about all that stuff about how important the protocols were and how Bumblebee was chosen? That all just kinda goes away, which really bugged me since the setup was one of my favorite things in the show.

- I did like Starscream earning his position as Seeker commander. It's basically just to replace Jetfire, but it was kinda neat to see something different than the usual Megs/Scream relationship.

- The show didn't handle fight scenes very well - it was mostly just shooting at a distance and all of Prime and Megatron's confrontations were one punching the other, they lay on the ground for a minute, and then get up and punch the other. Repeat cycle.

- It definitely didn't end the way I thought it would. I figured with all the earth modes in ER we'd spend most of our time there, but we get more setup for what happens on Cybertron after Siege than we do for the Ark crew. With the Decepticons still on Cybertron, I can't imagine much of the ER show actually takes place on Earth. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but not what I expected.

Overall I'd probably go with 2.5/5 - It had some cool stuff and it was entertaining overall but it just wasn't great.

some of the voices sound a little off
like shockwave for example

Seibertron wrote:
Cyberverse wasn't for me either, but I respect the opinions of some people that have liked it

However, the NETFLIX Transformers Wars for Cybertron series is intended for people like me.

Skip ahead on Cyberverse to season 3, or at least watch its middle Quintesson invasion arc. It's so good, with some amazing deep cuts on top of the new creative stuff.

Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

Its true. The voice acting was rough. How many guys voiced OP? Sounded like 3 or 4.

ScottyP wrote:Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

They'd get more people interested in Transformers and sell more toys and merchandise if they quit making cartoons and comics that aren't great because of acting, writing, directing, etc. The general audience arent a bunch of idiots. They know good entertainment when they see it just like we do, though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

Wow, of COURSE avoiding union actors is the reason for Hasbro's recent new little stable of voice actors for Cyberverse, Netflix, RBA, etc. with almost no one I recognize, how the hell did I not think about that before??? It makes so much sense now! That's low-key kinda scummy of them.

EvasionModeBumblebee wrote:I just finished the last episode, here's my thoughts on it:

Ok, first off, when they scan Bee, Arcee, and Cog for weapons they don't find anything and let them through.

COG.

The dude literally made out of weapons with several barrels sticking prominently out of his arms was not found with any weapons on him.
.

I laughed at that too. But what are you gonna do? Judge someone by their alt mode? Isn't that Altist? Lol.

Maybe Cog's weapons systems don't work until he transforms, and they were not expecting him to be able to turn into guns for other people?

I'm glad in a way we have some other voice talent being groomed for the roles, Jason did a fantastic job the first time around with his Megatron in Combiner Warsand we totally should have an "Heir and a Spare" for the day Welker can't do ut any more, which hopefully is a Long, LONG time from now. But I agree that its not good that its happening because they are getting undercut

Jeddostotle7 wrote:Wow, of COURSE avoiding union actors is the reason for Hasbro's recent new little stable of voice actors for Cyberverse, Netflix, RBA, etc. with almost no one I recognize, how the hell did I not think about that before??? It makes so much sense now! That's low-key kinda scummy of them.

Corporations will do literally anything to save money while trying to make as much as they can.

Jeddostotle7 wrote:Wow, of COURSE avoiding union actors is the reason for Hasbro's recent new little stable of voice actors for Cyberverse, Netflix, RBA, etc. with almost no one I recognize, how the hell did I not think about that before??? It makes so much sense now! That's low-key kinda scummy of them.

I don't think the avoidance of union actors is the reason. Some of these actors are very, very talented. It's the directing that is extremely lacking in my opinion.

I moved a bunch of cartoon related posts from the toy discussion of this to the cartoon forum.

Here's the cartoon discussion: netflix-transformers-war-for-cybertron-series-trilogy-discussion-t112705.php

Here's the toy discussion: netflix-transformers-war-for-cybertron-toy-line-discussion-t114589.php

Hard to keep the two separate, but I one should be more for discussion about the toys in general while the other topic should pertain more to the cartoon discussion with plot and character discussion, though admittedly the two will at times overlap.

Seibertron wrote:

ScottyP wrote:Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

They'd get more people interested in Transformers and sell more toys and merchandise if they quit making cartoons and comics that aren't great because of acting, writing, directing, etc. The general audience arent a bunch of idiots. They know good entertainment when they see it just like we do, though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

As if Hasbro is ever going to invest to get the creative talent needed for stuff like this to make truly great fiction.

The best they have gotten to work on stuff recently is Rooster Teeth who aren't even that big overall, but even then it doesn't really count since RT wasn't that involved, they didn't do the animation, majority of the VO (they got one or two RT people to do VO, Miles Luna and I think someone else), story writing, etc. Just some parts of production.

If corporations aren't going to invest in the proper people for bigger franchises like Star Wars then what chance does Transformers have?

It's pointless to hope for good fiction these days in general, the only thing to really do is to be pleasantly surprised when something turns out to not suck.

First Gen wrote:Its true. The voice acting was rough. How many guys voiced OP? Sounded like 3 or 4.

Yah, there was that as well. Yelling voice sounded 100% different than normal talking voice. It was very jarring.

Seibertron wrote:

First Gen wrote:Its true. The voice acting was rough. How many guys voiced OP? Sounded like 3 or 4.

Yah, there was that as well. Yelling voice sounded 100% different than normal talking voice. It was very jarring.

The raised-voice parts of Optimus in the show were the only ones I actually unironically "cringed" at, with others I didn't like such as Soundwave I only thought that they weren't good, they didn't actually get a physical reaction out of me otherwise.

It was simply unconvincing.


Man I actually googled up Jake and he was born only a few months before me, that means he's 23 I think, I don't think he's a terrible VO or anything but man as someone who has practiced doing VO myself rule of thumb is that you should absolutely not try to act as a character who is much older then you, it's one thing for impressions and such but in an official setting it can be unconvincing.

ScottyP wrote:Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

If WFC wasn't for us fans, then what would be? Not saying it was just for us, but I am pretty sure that out of all the media out there, this was the one that targetted fans most (outside of the current Simon Furman comics) along with being a series anyone could watch.

Deadput wrote:As if Hasbro is ever going to invest to get the creative talent needed for stuff like this to make truly great fiction.

But they've done it before without household names. Transformers Prime, Animated and Beast Wars all come to mind about what good directing can do with the talent they have. It starts near the top.

Deadput wrote:If corporations aren't going to invest in the proper people for bigger franchises like Star Wars then what chance does Transformers have?

I'm just looking for good talent ... particularly with the directors and producers who know talent when they see it. For example, how many of you really knew of Scott McNeil, Garry Chalk or David Kaye before Beast Wars?

Even Robots in Disguise had good acting and the show was fairly entertaining, though the "monster of the week" premise was pretty monotonous in season 1.

Deadput wrote:It's pointless to hope for good fiction these days in general, the only thing to really do is to be pleasantly surprised when something turns out to not suck.

I disagree. When companies like Hasbro hype a show for almost 2 years before it debuts (our first news story about the NETFLIX show was from October 2018), it had better be good if you are pushing the show and building the hype up with fans.

None of these issues were ones that were not fixable given a proper amount of time to fix it (which they should have had considering that the show was in the works since at least October 2018). It just needs a few people in the right positions who are passionate about entertainment. They don't even need to be passionate about Transformers, just bring in some people who know how to tell a good story, and at a minimum, bring in some consultants to provide some feedback to avoid train wrecks like this.

Deadput wrote:The raised-voice parts of Optimus in the show were the only ones I actually unironically "cringed" at, with others I didn't like such as Soundwave I only thought that they weren't good, they didn't actually get a physical reaction out of me otherwise.

Soundwave was another one I flat out cringed at. It's a horrible, horrible Soundwave voice. Couldn't they have been bothered to ask Jon Bailey how to replicate his voice for Soundwave from the Bumblebee movie? I mean, how much more spot-on can you get than what Jon did? Frustrating to say the least!

Deadput wrote: rule of thumb is that you should absolutely not try to act as a character who is much older then you

Optimus Prime is waaaaaaaaaay older than Peter Cullen but that worked out well enough.

I'm sure some won't exactly see this in the same way I do, but I'm very disappointed that Jake Tillman and Jason Marnocha each did a good job as Cyberverse Prime and Prime Wars Megatron while their takes here didn't sound quite right. In fact, a majority of the cast in WFC has voices that almost sound similar to one another, no real variety in tone, and dialogue that tends to be repeated from time to time. I love hearing different Transformer voices from the many shows and films we've gotten, especially when it comes to how distinct they generally sound from one another; even Energon had voices that sounded a bit more distinct from one another than in WFC, and that's a series many disliked for the execution of the dialogue!

All in all, WFC's voice work makes me think less of a cast that's got unique performances from different VAs anre more of a fan-made series that tries to go for the ultra-serious route and has voice work done majority by one individual that doesn't make convincing alterations to how they sound.

Seibertron wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:Wow, of COURSE avoiding union actors is the reason for Hasbro's recent new little stable of voice actors for Cyberverse, Netflix, RBA, etc. with almost no one I recognize, how the hell did I not think about that before??? It makes so much sense now! That's low-key kinda scummy of them.

I don't think the avoidance of union actors is the reason. Some of these actors are very, very talented. It's the directing that is extremely lacking in my opinion.

Oh, don't get me wrong, a lot of these VAs are definitely very talented with good direction, it's just I've been wondering for a few years now why it seemed like Hasbro pretty much just universally switched over to this stable of seemingly mostly fresh talent for almost all projects, and Hasbro wanting to avoid paying more for union VAs makes so much sense as a reason.

I have yet to watch this series, but from what everyone's saying, it sounds to me like Jake still has yet to really find that spark that takes his Optimus voice to greatness. His Peter Cullen impression is pretty good, but often even in his better performances it can still come off as... a little wooden/overly stoic? I don't think it's Jake's fault so much, I just think most of the voice direction he's gotten has likely encouraged him to lean into the Peter Cullen impression at the cost of actually adding that extra dimension to the character Peter usually had and/or making it his own. Jake will definitely get there someday, no doubt in my mind, but for now I'm just frustrated with his Optimus voice not reaching its potential.

Seibertron wrote:But they've done it before without household names. Transformers Prime, Animated and Beast Wars all come to mind about what good directing can do with the talent they have. It starts near the top.

And that was years ago, Transformers Prime was a disaster behind the scenes and ultimately did not pan out the way Hasbro wanted to and ever since then they have been afraid of ever making the same amount of commitment.

Seibertron wrote:I'm just looking for good talent ... particularly with the directors and producers who know talent when they see it. For example, how many of you really knew of Scott McNeil, Garry Chalk or David Kaye before Beast Wars?

Even Robots in Disguise had good acting and the show was fairly entertaining, though the "monster of the week" premise was pretty monotonous in season 1.

This is valid, good vo isn't impossibly difficult to achieve or anything, but besides the actual voice performances, direction/scripting, audio mixing and equipment are all important factors for good performances, and when a company is trying to be as cheap as possible to make as much as possible then it's troublesome.

Seibertron wrote:I disagree. When companies like Hasbro hype a show for almost 2 years before it debuts (our first news story about the NETFLIX show was from October 2018), it had better be good if you are pushing the show and building the hype up with fans.

None of these issues were ones that were not fixable given a proper amount of time to fix it (which they should have had considering that the show was in the works since at least October 2018). It just needs a few people in the right positions who are passionate about entertainment. They don't even need to be passionate about Transformers, just bring in some people who know how to tell a good story, and at a minimum, bring in some consultants to provide some feedback to avoid train wrecks like this.

I agree, the issues with this show for the most part are things that could of been fixed with more time and passion, it is quite frustrating indeed that the show turned out the way it did even if I found entertainment in it myself (my standards are never set to high, so I don't get disappointed as much) and it's even more frustrating when we can see what exactly is wrong with some of those things and how easily fixable they are, hell I think fans could probably do a great redubbing for the show.

But my overall point isn't that it's impossible to accomplish because it certainly is with the right people, my point is that they won't bother doing so because it's easier to be lazy about stuff and just hope it's successful, creative passion is a rare thing these days, I've certainly barely see it anywhere for the last several years and the potential foreseeable future, I'm just choosing to never hype myself up about anything period, it's just better that way since optimism gets people nowhere.

william-james88 wrote:Optimus Prime is waaaaaaaaaay older than Peter Cullen but that worked out well enough.

Literally sure, but Peter Cullen was also the one who invented the voice, so it's less prone to being criticized unlike someone who is just trying to do an impersonation of them because comparisons will be made, it's also kinda why people aren't going to be as harsh to those like say Gary Chalk who are doing their own takes on the character entirely.

Seibertron wrote:Cyberverse wasn't for me either, but I respect the opinions of some people that have liked it, so I'll just chalk it up to it not being my thing. Though I'd argue that the terrible Bumblebee radio voice at the beginning at the attention-deficit appealing 11-minute episode format was very off-putting to me as well as some other aspects, but again, not everything Transformers related has to be for me.

I will say this about Cyberverse. It is definitely an imperfect series, but it does improve dramatically over time. If you've only seen episodes from the first season, it is understandable why you would have been put off by it since that season is the most flawed. But thankfully, Seasons 2 and 3 of Cyberverse are like a completely different show from season 1, so much so that one could practically skip season 1 altogether.

Bumblebee can talk normally again and is no longer the central main character, both the Autobots and Decepticons feature a wide variety of characters with diverse and distinct personalities, and the storytelling is significantly improved with a more serialized ongoing narrative, much higher stakes, and overall stronger writing.

In contrast to the more mundane feel of Cyberverse's anthology-styled first season, Seasons 2 and 3 feel much more like a loving tribute to many things that came before in the past 36 years of the brand while also trying bold new things as well. Myself and others have even gone as far as to consider Season 3 (just Season 3) to be on par with the likes of Beast Wars and Animated (both of which were great but also had flaws too), and that kind of praise is not something to be taken lightly.

And is certainly leaps and bounds better than this show.

Quantum Surge wrote:I'm sure some won't exactly see this in the same way I do, but I'm very disappointed that Jake Tillman and Jason Marnocha each did a good job as Cyberverse Prime and Prime Wars Megatron while their takes here didn't sound quite right. In fact, a majority of the cast in WFC has voices that almost sound similar to one another, no real variety in tone, and dialogue that tends to be repeated from time to time. I love hearing different Transformer voices from the many shows and films we've gotten, especially when it comes to how distinct they generally sound from one another; even Energon had voices that sounded a bit more distinct from one another than in WFC, and that's a series many disliked for the execution of the dialogue!

All in all, WFC's voice work makes me think less of a cast that's got unique performances from different VAs anre more of a fan-made series that tries to go for the ultra-serious route and has voice work done majority by one individual that doesn't make convincing alterations to how they sound.

Jeddostotle7 wrote:Oh, don't get me wrong, a lot of these VAs are definitely very talented with good direction, it's just I've been wondering for a few years now why it seemed like Hasbro pretty much just universally switched over to this stable of seemingly mostly fresh talent for almost all projects, and Hasbro wanting to avoid paying more for union VAs makes so much sense as a reason.

You know I think this just goes to show that the main faults with the VO in the show is whoever the heck is the VO director in "this company" which makes sense since it's probably the same people who did the Prime Wars miniseries.

If it was in the hands of a more competent studio like the people who did Cyberverse or even Rooster Teeth themselves who have had several shows where they have pretty fine Voice Acting in their works. (maybe not perfect but certainly better then the people currently doing these Transformer series) things could of turned out better.

I actually really hope the next few parts get some more RT voice actors in.

Jeddostotle7 wrote:I have yet to watch this series, but from what everyone's saying, it sounds to me like Jake still has yet to really find that spark that takes his Optimus voice to greatness. His Peter Cullen impression is pretty good, but often even in his better performances it can still come off as... a little wooden/overly stoic? I don't think it's Jake's fault so much, I just think most of the voice direction he's gotten has likely encouraged him to lean into the Peter Cullen impression at the cost of actually adding that extra dimension to the character Peter usually had and/or making it his own. Jake will definitely get there someday, no doubt in my mind, but for now I'm just frustrated with his Optimus voice not reaching its potential.

Jake was way better in Cyberverse than in this. So I think Ryan's guess that the problem is more on the voice director's end is on point.

Also speaking of Optimus, I too, like D-Max, found it hard to root for him as the hero. He didn't at all feel like the character I associate Optimus with. Felt more like IDW Barber's Prime or the more recent relaunched IDW Prime which I really do not like. He just didn't feel like the one to lead or someone I would get behind and go into battle with. I got more of the Optimus Prime I can root for in the 5 minutes of him in the BB movie than in the 2.5 hours of this show.

william-james88 wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:I have yet to watch this series, but from what everyone's saying, it sounds to me like Jake still has yet to really find that spark that takes his Optimus voice to greatness. His Peter Cullen impression is pretty good, but often even in his better performances it can still come off as... a little wooden/overly stoic? I don't think it's Jake's fault so much, I just think most of the voice direction he's gotten has likely encouraged him to lean into the Peter Cullen impression at the cost of actually adding that extra dimension to the character Peter usually had and/or making it his own. Jake will definitely get there someday, no doubt in my mind, but for now I'm just frustrated with his Optimus voice not reaching its potential.

Jake was way better in Cyberverse than in this. So I think Ryan's guess that the problem is more on the voice director's end is on point.

Also speaking of Optimus, I too, like D-Max, found it hard to root for him as the hero. He didn't at all feel like the character I associate Optimus with. Felt more like IDW Barber's Prime or the more recent relaunched IDW Prime which I really do not like. He just didn't feel like the one to lead or someone I would get behind and go into battle with. I got more of the Optimus Prime I can root for in the 5 minutes of him in the BB movie than in the 2.5 hours of this show.

Oh no, I agree, the actual problems with the voice acting are almost certainly the fault of the voice director. We have seen many of these VAs do better in Cyberverse, I'm not trying to speak negatively about the abilities of this stable of VAs. My point about Optimus was not directly related to that, and even there I point the finger for my disappointment in Jake's Optimus voice at voice directors. I agree he was better in Cyberverse than what I've heard of his performance in the Netflix trailers, I was just expressing that I've been disappointed with Jake's Optimus voice even there. I don't think it's Jake's fault, I just think he's got great potential that he's not reaching, again probably the voice directors' fault: they probably want him to focus on his Peter Cullen impression to the exclusion of adding much depth to the voice and/or making it his own.

yeah I kept thinking how much more epic this would have been with Frank, Peter, Dan, Greg, Michael and any of the other still living voice actors of the g1 cartoon.

I still need to watch it.

Speaking as someone who hasn't watched this thing yet (no Netflix, been too busy watching other stuff, etc) but knows enough about it to determine it's probably not for me, I'm beginning to wonder if half the problem is the very most basic premise of "What if G1 was DARK and GRITTY!?!".

"Remaking" G1 seems oddly pointless. Whilst far from perfect- very, very far- it was still relatively entertaining. I'd even argue a large part of what made it fun was how silly it was; putting aside the questionable animation, this is the series where as but one example, Blaster gets kidnapped by a giant pair of hands emerging from a billboard. And this wasn't a toned-down adaptation of an existing story- this was what Transformers was.

That's not to say every TF series has to be this daft, but if your aim is "Higher quality G1 cartoon" then trying to make it gritty and grimdark is kind of missing the point; because if you want to make G1 a serious war story, you have to change so much stuff that it's not really G1 anymore. That wouldn't be a problem if the aim was just to make an original TF series that has a darker tone, but when the whole thing is pitched as a G1 remake with G1 characters, you start to run into problems.

I also feel like the attempt to make everything dark and serious is itself kind of a mistake, and poorly executed. "Dark and gritty reboots" are 10 a penny and most of them are terrible, and "mature = dark" series in general are just kind of overdone at this point. Plus, the way they're done, with everything being predictably dull and washed out, is just tiresome and extremely uncreative.

If you want an example of a dark series done well (and totally not just because I rewatched it recently and have it as my avatar), Puella Magi Madoka Magica combines the trappings and aesthetics of a cute, happy series with an impeccably executed tragic story, and at times reaches soul-crushing depths of despair, capped off with an absolutely beautiful bittersweet ending. Yes, it's incredibly dark, but it isn't completely dripping with attempts at grittiness and everything being dull and grey. The characters are adorable, there are moments of levity, the world itself is meticulously designed (SHAFT's architectural skills really should be applauded), and in general there is a perfect balance of lighthearted moments with heartwrenching tragedy.

So where am I going with all this? Simply put- the approach to making this series was completely wrong. If they wanted to make a grim, dark story, they should have distanced themselves further from G1 to give themselves more room for creativity. There's plenty of "original" TF series, and one more wouldn't have hurt; heck, some of the best TF media has been unrelated to G1 (*COUGH* Animated *COUGH*). And if they wanted to tell a G1 story, they really should have made it a lot more lighthearted, just because Sunbow G1 and "serious war story" do not mix very well. And there's nothing wrong with having a story that isn't just nonstop hurr durr grimdark- The Bumblebee movie was pretty lighthearted on the whole and that was superb.

TLDR: G1 was not a dark and gritty series, and treating it as such is a one way ticket to failtown on the disappointment express.

I'd also argue that the choice in creative talent was probably not the best, but that's a spiel for another time, and I also feel that even with the greatest talent in the world, the series' premise doomed it from the beginning.

Black Hat wrote:Speaking as someone who hasn't watched this thing yet (no Netflix, been too busy watching other stuff, etc) but knows enough about it to determine it's probably not for me, I'm beginning to wonder if half the problem is the very most basic premise of "What if G1 was DARK and GRITTY!?!".

"Remaking" G1 seems oddly pointless. Whilst far from perfect- very, very far- it was still relatively entertaining. I'd even argue a large part of what made it fun was how silly it was; putting aside the questionable animation, this is the series where as but one example, Blaster gets kidnapped by a giant pair of hands emerging from a billboard. And this wasn't a toned-down adaptation of an existing story- this was what Transformers was.

That's not to say every TF series has to be this daft, but if your aim is "Higher quality G1 cartoon" then trying to make it gritty and grimdark is kind of missing the point; because if you want to make G1 a serious war story, you have to change so much stuff that it's not really G1 anymore. That wouldn't be a problem if the aim was just to make an original TF series that has a darker tone, but when the whole thing is pitched as a G1 remake with G1 characters, you start to run into problems.

I also feel like the attempt to make everything dark and serious is itself kind of a mistake, and poorly executed. "Dark and gritty reboots" are 10 a penny and most of them are terrible, and "mature = dark" series in general are just kind of overdone at this point. Plus, the way they're done, with everything being predictably dull and washed out, is just tiresome and extremely uncreative.

If you want an example of a dark series done well (and totally not just because I rewatched it recently and have it as my avatar), Puella Magi Madoka Magica combines the trappings and aesthetics of a cute, happy series with an impeccably executed tragic story, and at times reaches soul-crushing depths of despair, capped off with an absolutely beautiful bittersweet ending. Yes, it's incredibly dark, but it isn't completely dripping with attempts at grittiness and everything being dull and grey. The characters are adorable, there are moments of levity, the world itself is meticulously designed (SHAFT's architectural skills really should be applauded), and in general there is a perfect balance of lighthearted moments with heartwrenching tragedy.

So where am I going with all this? Simply put- the approach to making this series was completely wrong. If they wanted to make a grim, dark story, they should have distanced themselves further from G1 to give themselves more room for creativity. There's plenty of "original" TF series, and one more wouldn't have hurt; heck, some of the best TF media has been unrelated to G1 (*COUGH* Animated *COUGH*). And if they wanted to tell a G1 story, they really should have made it a lot more lighthearted, just because Sunbow G1 and "serious war story" do not mix very well. And there's nothing wrong with having a story that isn't just nonstop hurr durr grimdark- The Bumblebee movie was pretty lighthearted on the whole and that was superb.

TLDR: G1 was not a dark and gritty series, and treating it as such is a one way ticket to failtown on the disappointment express.

I'd also argue that the choice in creative talent was probably not the best, but that's a spiel for another time, and I also feel that even with the greatest talent in the world, the series' premise doomed it from the beginning.

Well said and a good example using Madoka, something that appeared light and fluffy but hid its true self till the right moment.

Though it is funny to think of this as a reverse tmnt in a way as the original tmnt comic was the complete opposite of the main thing its known for...the Cartoon

Seibertron wrote:

ScottyP wrote:Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

They'd get more people interested in Transformers and sell more toys and merchandise if they quit making cartoons and comics that aren't great because of acting, writing, directing, etc. The general audience arent a bunch of idiots. They know good entertainment when they see it just like we do, though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

Anecdotes are all I can provide here but several of the things that bother us aren't an issue to more casual viewers. I don't need to see the end of the war and Optimus and Bumblebee working together to send away the Allspark, that's been done over and over and over and over since 2007. A casual viewer got that maybe twice in the same time period. The voice acting is stiff to us in places but compared to some English anime dubs it's pitch perfect - and an anime fan with a passing interest in Transformers is one of the markets this is aimed at, why else would they call it anime when anime ja nai? I have pals and coworkers that watched it and thought it was fun. That said, no one, myself included, puts this thing up on any high pedestal but it's not the trainwreck one might expect from skimming these posts.

Maybe the difference is expectations. The marketing hype led you to believe this was G1 redone like never before. It's not and was never meant to be G1, the amount of money that would require isn't practical anymore. We're a captive audience that, if we buy that oversimplified marketing hype, provide free viral buzz and promotion for our corporate overlords. Meanwhile, the show was in the top 10 of US Netflix for at least one point this weekend when I signed in and our "fan" audience isn't going to do that on its own.

My expectations were as low as I could set them internally, in other words I expected more of the Prime Wars trash bin. WfC isn't stellar, but on the whole it was ok and certainly much better than Prime Wars. I also think it's inappropriate to judge it based on three episodes. They cut it into episodes for some reason, but this is really just a movie and to stop there is to leave the theater after the first act.

I'm going to touch on 2 points mentioned over the past page, and one that's a bit different:

1) Will is correct with the 5 minutes of Bumblebee movie giving me a reason to cheer for and like Prime, whereas this 2 hours and 15 minutes did none of that. The Bee movie did the same thing essentially: showed the Autobots as the resistance, badly outnumbered, and basically desperate. But in Bumblebee, we got glimpses of characters that cared for one another, a better plan to use, some actual connection to those characters. All in a couple of minutes. And here, there was nothing.

This shows some of the extreme ends of success. One did very well in a couple minutes, the other didn't even try.

2) Ryan, I hear your criticisms of Cyberverse, but you, much like others in the past couple of months, seemed to have formed the opinion around Season 1 entirely. Season 1 is almost like that first time out prequel movie that came before the actual main events. Season 2 and especially Season 3 are very good.

Also, with regards to a proper voice director, Cyberverse is another great example. The variety and quality of voices is pretty dang good in the show. Jake sounds so much better in Cyberverse for example, he fits right in.

And with the voice acting, I take you to the Resistance of Season 3. you have:

-Hot Rod - the kid who is trying to lead this Resistance and trying to figure it all out, the struggles of growing as a leader, he has a higher pitch to him, with more excitement you would expect from someone younger.
-Soundwave - a long time high ranking con who is all business and feels no qualms about what he needs to do to win. His voice echos that straightforwardness and is tuned extremely well, no one else sounds like him. He is Marvel G1/TF Cybertron Jerk Soundwave as a competent commander type
-Clobber - the brunt lady of the group who isn't overly bright but has feelings for others and loves to punch stuff. Her voice is deeper than we are used to, but it conveys her ability to have feelings while also being one of the strongest characters
-Dead End - one of the best casting choices transformers has had in years, he is just that good. The doom and gloom Dead End that somehow keeps on getting in the fight and finding ways to win while also being a snarky doomsday welcomer, there is a lot going on with him and he's very enjoyable
-Whirl - he has that higher pitched voice, much more so than Hot Rod, and he sort of conveys that sneaky level of both anxiety and insanity behind his actions. As the first take on him in a cartoon, it's pretty convincing, not quite what an IDW Whirl would sound like, but still a welcome voice that stands out
-Perceptor - very matter of fact, gets straight to the point, has a very scientific voice behind him, is not afraid to state whatever he is thinking and then move right on. The voice screams "smartest guy in the room" while being very tempered and calm.
-Maccadam - the bouncy, wily, old barkeep who can see the future, and can alternate between both sorrow for his former crew and lively and cheerful to tend to his guests. He conveys age and wisdom yet still has fun and relatable to him

You look at these 7 cast members, and how they interact with each other throughout the season, whether as a full crew or as smaller groups. They are very good. They are all unique. You can be doing chores and not looking at the TV but know exactly who is saying what, how they are feeling, and where everyone stands, and to a degree know exactly what is going on. This is a cast done right, this is a cast that was steered to its best result. This is a cast that people can relate to, enjoy, and find fun and take seriously.

3) Cyberverse honestly shows itself as a show that could be pretty easily adult-oriented as well, given some extra pieces of animated/a different animation type.

This was discussed on Twitter by me and some others, and if you look at it, Cyberverse does a great job of showing the war as a thing happening, with propaganda and with casualties. Megatron used Starscream's death to try to show the bots as awful for killing his "friend" when in fact it was Megatron who thought he had killed Scream.

Also, below is a spoiler tagged list of everyone killed in the show and how. And if you read it, and then think about any Siege casualties in the same manner, it really is not different, and it's only really the portrayal of the show that could differentiate this as "adult" content:

-Blurr (and countless others) - disintegrated to rust by a plague
-Most of the Seekers (Thundercracker, Thrust, Acid Storm, Nova Storm, and more) - Starscream strips them of their sparks as part of his plan to kill the entire race of Transformers after they help him alter the allspark to be able to do so
-Slipstream: stabbed through the back by Bludgeon for supposedly betraying the cons
-Multiple alternate Arks disintegrated by being trapped in unspace (realm between dimensions)
-Prowl - shot by Shadowstriker
-Shockwave - extracts his spark to poison the allspark
-Cheetor -extracts his spark to stop Shockwave from corrupting the allspark
-Bludgeon - banished to unspace
-Hound - yanked from the Quintesson loop improperly
-Iaconus - decapitated by unspace bubble
-Starscream - turned into a Quintesson judge and destroyed by a combo of Optimus and Megatron's matrices
-Megatron - killed by his alternate self to reclaim that matrix
-numerous generics on both sides to unspace/shooting/slicing/explosions/etc.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
2) Ryan, I hear your criticisms of Cyberverse, but you, much like others in the past couple of months, seemed to have formed the opinion around Season 1 entirely. Season 1 is almost like that first time out prequel movie that came before the actual main events. Season 2 and especially Season 3 are very good.

Cyberverse Season three started off good but it is for the most part worse than season one with out of place episodes, lack of plot, by time it starts to get back on track Kup starts narrating some sub par episodes and then just starts on a pretty much unrelated arcs/convenience more than following through. Still have to see the end so maybe it can establish some kind of track to the new direction it decided to slam into the show just as it is ending.

I've not seen WFC yet, but I'm wondering if Megatron and Optimus being bit parts in Cyberverse effects the acting/character portrayal when the characters suddenly become centre stage and more important to a story. Megatrons voice was fine in cyberverse and I'm probably going to have to listen to some of WFC with my eyes closed to see if the lips detract from the audio.

As for WFC being dark and gritty because reasons, a lot of the transformers media that involved war (when compared to G1s series of mainly we've beaten the enemy, let them go so we can do it all again) WFC games, Headmasters, The movie etc etc has all of that. I'll go in thinking it's designed to sell toys first and foremost and is it good enough to make me forget that whilst watching it.
Expecting a slow build that has potential (kinda like rooster teeths genlock), some butchering of characters/origins like the WFC games and it to be a vast improvement ove the low bar prime wars machinima.

Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

I think some people here are misunderstanding something when it comes to this show's voice cast. This show does not use the Cyberverse voice actors. Rather, it only uses Jake Foushee as the voice of Optimus. Literally no other voice actor in this WFCT cartoon besides him was in Cyberverse.

I have to agree. For all of the effort put into this new show, some of the voices just take you out of it. It was very obviously a G1-centric production, so why did half of the voices fit and the others didn't? Whomever it was that did Prime's voice; They sounded like your friend who THINKS they do a good Prime impersonation. The cadence was way off.

You can totally tell because the quality of the voice acting is terrible. Weird pauses and delivery ... it's almost like they haven't even read it through before they start the line reading.
Plus, whoever said everyone is trying to sound like a tough guy was absolutely right. The bad guys all had growls and the good guys all talked like tough guys.

But that's only one of this show's problems.

While I loved him as Optimus Primal, Garry is the last one who should be calling anything "low energy" after using the same basic voice for so many characters for decades.

It should also be noted that he was in the same position years ago when he did new versions of GI Joe and He-Man/MOTU and that fans had the same criticisms then.

aronjlove wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

Deadput wrote:Ultra Magnus plays a big part in post 1986 type stuff (cartoon and comics alike) so his importance doesn't even tend to exist prior to Earth stuff most of the time, although he is the most important character out of these 3 overall but he was a big part of this show and is implied to have been important to the war and being trusted along with Optimus by Alpha Trion, all things considered he got it pretty good here.

I agree. Obviously, I'd like it better if he didn't die, but they did him justice with the death he got.

And without Magnus dying Bumblebee would never have joined the Autobots.

I'm glad we got a Bumblebee who could talk and wasn't sucking up to Prime. Although I did find it strange that he sold Energon for coins(?), like, what else does a bot need to purchase other than Energon...


Edit: added spoiler tag

Eh. I just didn't care for it. This version of Bumblebee reminded me of 90s comics when everything was EXTREME, DARK and FULL OF ATTITUDE. His whole deal was "I'm such a bad ass, I don't need to be an Autobot."
Really? Because you're tiny and you're yellow.

It's such a played out trope.

Delicon wrote:While I loved him as Optimus Primal, Garry is the last one who should be calling anything "low energy" after using the same basic voice for so many characters for decades.

It should also be noted that he was in the same position years ago when he did new versions of GI Joe and He-Man/MOTU and that fans had the same criticisms then.

He kept using the same voice, his natural voice btw, because that's what all the people who kept hiring him wanted him to use.

It's not he's got multiple Optimus voices in his arsenal. He was cast to play Optimus Prime in the Unicron Trilogy because the people who hired him wanted his Optimus Primal voice.

returnofplex wrote:I have to agree. For all of the effort put into this new show, some of the voices just take you out of it. It was very obviously a G1-centric production, so why did half of the voices fit and the others didn't? Whomever it was that did Prime's voice; They sounded like your friend who THINKS they do a good Prime impersonation. The cadence was way off.

Go to 4 minute mark of this episode, where Bumblebee remembers the time Prime came to his rescue. It's the same voice actor doing Optimus Prime here and he sounds much better, cadence wise, than in the Siege show. You'll let me know if you agree.



Am I the only one who was far more satisfied by this 10 min episode than the netflix Siege film?

jON3.0 wrote:The timing was already set when I recorded. Lines had to be done the way I did them to fit. I did the absolute best job I possible could as I was instructed to do in the job I was hired for and tried my hardest to do them as Peter would do them himself within the time constrictions I was working with.

That's why I don't think he is referring to you, unlike what it may seem. But at the same time, I don't get why he would blame any voice actor, when the voice directing would be at fault anyways. I think he may be simply not aware of the difference between the BB film and the Bay films where he did work for months on those Bay movies and they had to map out his mouth. He probably thinks the same thing happened in this production when it wasn't the case and this is more like an animated gig than a "live action" gig. I will make an ammendment to the article for precision.

ZeroWolf wrote:Though it is funny to think of this as a reverse tmnt in a way as the original tmnt comic was the complete opposite of the main thing its known for...the Cartoon

What I find amazing about TMNT is that you then got the film which was gritty and showed the roots of the comic, at least atmosphere wise, and how it worked in the first place. It's a fascinating franchise.

ScottyP wrote: The marketing hype led you to believe this was G1 redone like never before. It's not and was never meant to be G1, the amount of money that would require isn't practical anymore.

I really want to talk about this. Because I can totally see why Ryan would think this was the first true G1 remake we'd be getting, especially since just last week at SDCC at home the director adressed how G1 this was, going as far as to say this was a prequel to the cartoon. He knew fans would be watching, and was hyping it up in the way Ryan claimed. And I can see how even the writers would have the G1 cartoon as a loose reminder of where certain players have to be. And the inclusion of Soundblaster is definitely the kind of stuff done for fans.
That said, I am then reminded of a conversation all three of us had a year or so ago, when I said that Cyberverse was really looking like the "G1 remake" or the G1 for this generation (I had talked about this with O.Supreme as well I think), to which Ryan said that title would go more towards the Netflix series. And now that we have both before us, I think I properly called it. Cyberverse is as much a "G1 remake" as we could get while still being it's own thing. Firstly, it has the same conflict and characters as the G1 show and is made for the same audience as the G1 show. It revisits G1 concepts, like the Quintessons, and gives them a new interpretation. Anyone who loves the G1 show and its characters as it is would like Season 2 and 3 of Cyberverse, it offers the exact same cartoon goodness with the same characters.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:-Hot Rod - the kid who is trying to lead this Resistance and trying to figure it all out, the struggles of growing as a leader, he has a higher pitch to him, with more excitement you would expect from someone younger.

I LOVED this aspect. As I wrote above, Cyberverse is the G1 of this era, and I think they ace the How Rod leadership more than in G1, where the movie killed off prime and gave the autobots a new leader, who had just been introduced in the same film. In Cyberverse, Hot Rod's ascension feels less gimmicky or preordained. He isn't a chosen one, he just rises to the occasion as a dedicated soldier who will not accept defeat. And the fact that we have seen Hot Rod since season one makes the show and his ascension feel more cohesive and organic. It is my best example of how good Cyberverse and how it plays as a G1 remake.

blackeyedprime wrote:Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

Oh man, I had not thought of that and yet I wrote all these articles. Primal without Chalk would be rough for me.

william-james88 wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

Oh man, I had not thought of that and yet I wrote all these articles. Primal without Chalk would be rough for me.

I think we can expect Primal to not be voiced by Chalk. Not only did they cast Ron Perlman to play him in POTP, but now with them going non-union and recording everything in New York, I can't see them reaching out to Chalk all the way over in Vancouver.

And that's another thing to consider: Location. U.S. productions use U.S. voice actors and Canadian productions use Canadian voice actors, with very rarely any overlap. While certain actors have crossed over between productions done in one country or another, people like Tara Strong and Maurice LaMarche have dual citizenship in both countries, while David Kaye had to actually move to Los Angeles to get work there and has since done very few Canadian productions. Garry Chalk, meanwhile, is still in Vancouver and has primarily done projects produced in Vancouver, both animated and live action (such as Arrow, for instance).

With WFCT sticking with non-union U.S. actors to save money, and with Garry Chalk being both in another country and on the opposite side of the continent, the odds of their getting him to play Primal are pretty much up the creek.

Regarding the tmnt movie, I recently watched the toys that made us for Turtles and loved the reaction of the suits to the movie to what happened when it opened.

And will, I agree with saying that Cyberverse was intended to be the 'g1' of this era, a new starting point for kids. WfC wants to market itself as those that either watch causally or fans who want something more. Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Ironic. An attempt at winning over the people that think the term "anime" would automatically win them over doesn't really mean anything more beyond it being a gimmick. And after getting reminded about the rating being TV-Y7, I kind of laughed like J Jonah Jameson did. All that "dark & mature" stuff can't even get to a higher rating. At least TFP being Y7 was acceptable since it was a more mainstream show than WFC is, especially considering its probably got an additional FV for Fantasy Violence.

Look, I want Earthrise to be worth watching, and while I'm not going to have extremely high expectations, I want it to be at least better than Siege was.

Sabrblade wrote: Garry Chalk, meanwhile, is still in Vancouver and has primarily done projects produced in Vancouver, both animated and live action (such as Arrow, for instance).

Garry Chalk seems worldly enough, in terms of his hollywood clout. We mention his big roles, but he's been in last year's Sonic film, and the 2014 Godzilla. He's a steady actor. I know I am setting myself up for dissapointment if I still hold out some hope but I'd be dissapointed regardless, even if there was no hope of him voicing him.

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Yeah the anime makes no sense, and the cartoon shows up the "Netflix Kids" option so they were never gonna fool anyone.